Regular haunts that survived

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, Leaver said:

I know some Thai landlords are reducing their rents while borders are closed, but I am sure those rents will return to normal, and maybe more per month, if a finance type situation was agreed upon.

Time will tell if rents are cheaper post covid than they were pre covid, to attract tenants.  

 

DO you understand how a lease works or you do not? Yes, rents will go up for people without leases and for people that have negotiated temporary discounts, but people that have entered into new leases with lower rents they will not. 

In any event, until there is a recovery of some kind, there is nothing to drive rents up. You can't get blood from a turnip. 

[polpott]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

DO you understand how a lease works or you do not? Yes, rents will go up for people without leases and for people that have negotiated temporary discounts, but people that have entered into new leases with lower rents they will not. 

In any event, until there is a recovery of some kind, there is nothing to drive rents up. You can't get blood from a turnip. 

If you want to know about rents, leases and key money in Pattaya, watch this. He knows far more on the subject than you or I will ever know.

 

[Golden Triangle]

14 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

DO you understand how a lease works or you do not? Yes, rents will go up for people without leases and for people that have negotiated temporary discounts, but people that have entered into new leases with lower rents they will not. 

In any event, until there is a recovery of some kind, there is nothing to drive rents up. You can't get blood from a turnip. 

Thai landlords think they can ????????????

[Leaver]

10 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

DO you understand how a lease works or you do not?

Yes.  I do.  Do you?

10 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, rents will go up for people without leases

Really?  Why? 

Will there be no Thai landlords offering cheaper rent to attract tenants on a commercial property that has been closed for years?

11 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

but people that have entered into new leases with lower rents they will not. 

Unless, of course, that was a lease negotiated in covid times, and part of that negotiation was when borders open the rent goes up.

12 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

n any event, until there is a recovery of some kind, there is nothing to drive rents up.

Except the contract made with the Thai landlord that may have a date on it in which rent returns to normal, or a stipulation that when borders open the rent returns to normal.    

 

[Yellowtail]

43 minutes ago, polpott said:

If you want to know about rents, leases and key money in Pattaya...

 

I do not.

[Yellowtail]

33 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Yes.  I do.  Do you?

Really?  Why? 

Will there be no Thai landlords offering cheaper rent to attract tenants on a commercial property that has been closed for years?

Unless, of course, that was a lease negotiated in covid times, and part of that negotiation was when borders open the rent goes up.

Except the contract made with the Thai landlord that may have a date on it in which rent returns to normal, or a stipulation that when borders open the rent returns to normal.    

 

Yes, well I have assumed that the people making the agreements and entering into new leases have read and understand them. 

But you are right, people that enter into bone-headed agreements and idiotic leases without reading and understanding them will not fare well.

I can understand why you have no interest in going into business for yourself...

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, Leaver said:

I know some Thai landlords are reducing their rents while borders are closed, but I am sure those rents will return to normal, and maybe more per month, if a finance type situation was agreed upon.

Time will tell if rents are cheaper post covid than they were pre covid, to attract tenants.  

As I said, in business situations a long term lease is usually arranged lasting more than a year and  special rates should persist beyond Covid, if you can hold the owner to contract. Businesses that carried on and struggled through will need a recovery period of eased expenses. There will  be a new normal. Pre-Covid may not return, but the pressure will be upwards as usual. 

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, Leaver said:

Could those cheap prices compete with 7/11 prices?  ????

Of course, 7-11's have profit margins and expenses too. We are talking of a people who created the concept of 'zero'....

Edited March 15, 2021 by jacko45k

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, Leaver said:

, it's the beer bar model that no longer viable.

It is what the beer bar model became that was not viable..... effectively GGB prices and tricks in a crappy open environment where you are expected to pay 100 baht for a beer, 180-200 for a lady drink, 500 baht bar fines and girls who will not  even sit near you unless you buy them a drink. Think back to the old beer bar model of cheap beers, you could buy a drink for a lady for the same price, girls were all over you and there was a fun environment. Now you sit there alone like a sad sod while the girls play on their phones and you are just, well, a barfly. 

[rott]

On 3/7/2021 at 4:54 PM, polpott said:

Have another look down there, several have been refurbished in anticipation of reopening.......soon. 555

Had a look again yesterday in daylight and I saw that three after the Big and Whistle are looking spruced up as is the Boomerang bar lower down on the other side. 

Never been a beer bar punter so I am surprised at the prices Jacko quotes, I do not know if these are the norm or an extreme example. 

I have sympathy for whoever took on the Pig/Big and Whistle just before everything went wrong. 

[Leaver]

On 3/15/2021 at 10:03 PM, Yellowtail said:

But you are right, people that enter into bone-headed agreements and idiotic leases without reading and understanding them will not fare well.

Unfortunately, many tenants had a bone-headed Thai landlord who only saw the opportunity to make another lease fail, in the hope of selling another lease and making more key money.  Many tenants of such Thai landlords have had no choice but to walk away.  I hope these Thai landlords see their properties vacant for some time to come.

On 3/15/2021 at 10:03 PM, Yellowtail said:

I can understand why you have no interest in going into business for yourself...

I have no interest in going into anything in Thailand I can't leave behind and go to the airport.  Thailand is not a stable country.     

[Leaver]

On 3/16/2021 at 8:49 AM, jacko45k said:

and  special rates should persist beyond Covid,

They should, but will they?

On 3/16/2021 at 8:49 AM, jacko45k said:

Businesses that carried on and struggled through will need a recovery period of eased expenses.

Will they be given one?  No guarantee.  

On 3/16/2021 at 8:49 AM, jacko45k said:

There will  be a new normal.

Good luck telling that to a Thai landlord. ????

On 3/16/2021 at 8:49 AM, jacko45k said:

Pre-Covid may not return, but the pressure will be upwards as usual. 

Yes, upwards in a downwards market.  Interesting times ahead.   

[Leaver]

On 3/16/2021 at 8:51 AM, jacko45k said:

Of course, 7-11's have profit margins and expenses too. We are talking of a people who created the concept of 'zero'....

The people that created the concept of "zero" happen to be the majority of the tourists to Thailand, pre covid.  

[Leaver]

On 3/16/2021 at 8:58 AM, jacko45k said:

It is what the beer bar model became that was not viable..... effectively GGB prices and tricks in a crappy open environment where you are expected to pay 100 baht for a beer, 180-200 for a lady drink, 500 baht bar fines and girls who will not  even sit near you unless you buy them a drink. Think back to the old beer bar model of cheap beers, you could buy a drink for a lady for the same price, girls were all over you and there was a fun environment. Now you sit there alone like a sad sod while the girls play on their phones and you are just, well, a barfly. 

Good post, jacko45k.

I was talking of the present, but when we look back, you are correct.  The beer bars were great fun, and affordable.  Now, well, they are probably just an expensive tourist attraction from years gone by.

So, who got greedy?  The Thai landlords, or the bar owners? Or, has it just been a steady case of "customer go down so put price up" business model?    

 

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

Unfortunately, many tenants had a bone-headed Thai landlord who only saw the opportunity to make another lease fail, in the hope of selling another lease and making more key money.  Many tenants of such Thai landlords have had no choice but to walk away.  I hope these Thai landlords see their properties vacant for some time to come.

I have no interest in going into anything in Thailand I can't leave behind and go to the airport.  Thailand is not a stable country.     

Fortunately there are people that are able to read and comprehend the lease they enter into. 

Yes, I'm sure seeing others suffer brings you great joy, that's clear in many your posts. 

I started a business here in 2000, managed it for twenty years. I retired a couple years ago and it's still going strong. Country seems stable enough to me. 

Yeah, no doubt you can pack your pockets and be on the next flight out....

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, I'm sure seeing others suffer brings you great joy, that's clear in many your posts. 

I have no problem with greedy Thai landlords losing out due to covid, or any other reason.  They have been pushing up rents and driving up consumer prices for the last several years.  They pushed the market past breaking point, which we saw in the 2019/20 non existent high season.  In many ways, they have effectively outpriced Thailand / Pattaya in the South East Asia tourism market.  I will not shed a tear for them.    

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

I started a business here in 2000, managed it for twenty years. I retired a couple years ago and it's still going strong. Country seems stable enough to me. 

How many military coups has Thailand had in the last 20 years?  ????

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Yeah, no doubt you can pack your pockets and be on the next flight out....

No packing of pockets.  I would leave only ever putting into the Thai economy, not taking out. 

I have never worked here, nor ever will.  I have never invested here, nor ever will.  I am simply a consumer, and when I don't like what's on offer, I will go elsewhere.  

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Leaver

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, Leaver said:

They should, but will they?

If a long lease/ contract has been signed of course they should. I was wandering around town last night, despite a lack of custom, many places seem to stay open and even have quite a few staff. 

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, Leaver said:

Yes, upwards in a downwards market.  Interesting times ahead. 

I was in a GGB last night, I had just left a beer bar place where I paid 60 baht for my SML, and was sitting there sipping on one that cost me 140. Tequila girls were making a nuisance of themselves and a cute young girl, who claimed not to have been barfined for 3 months, was telling me it would be 1200 baht. Later, I had bought her 2 LDs at some overpriced silly amount, and was now sat alone as she had to 'go dance'. You know what, if they go bankrupt they deserve it. 

 

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, Leaver said:

The people that created the concept of "zero" happen to be the majority of the tourists to Thailand, pre covid.  

Yes, and wasn't it wonderful. 

[Leaver]

9 hours ago, jacko45k said:

If a long lease/ contract has been signed of course they should.

It only takes some rent in arrears and the lease is voided.  Will the Thai landlord be realistic, or demand the rent, as per contract?  

[Leaver]

9 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Yes, and wasn't it wonderful. 

TAT must have thought the coach buses were full of "crazy rich Asians" from China.  What they got was the opposite.   ????

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, Leaver said:

It only takes some rent in arrears and the lease is voided.  Will the Thai landlord be realistic, or demand the rent, as per contract?  

I don't know, I personally do not deal with them. If there is a contract that is where the terms lay and surely late payment of rent is included in it. 

[Wongkitlo]

On 3/16/2021 at 4:58 AM, jacko45k said:

It is what the beer bar model became that was not viable..... effectively GGB prices and tricks in a crappy open environment where you are expected to pay 100 baht for a beer, 180-200 for a lady drink, 500 baht bar fines and girls who will not  even sit near you unless you buy them a drink. Think back to the old beer bar model of cheap beers, you could buy a drink for a lady for the same price, girls were all over you and there was a fun environment. Now you sit there alone like a sad sod while the girls play on their phones and you are just, well, a barfly. 

Lady drinks is the dumbest marketing idea. I would buy a girl a drink but not at the crazy prices they charge. I would probably buy her 2 at normal price if I liked her and it would add up to the same as 1 lady drink. I avoid beer bars because I would prefer to go sit by myself than have someone annoy me to buy drinks. I do tip, sometimes generously.

[Yellowtail]

23 minutes ago, Wongkitlo said:

Lady drinks is the dumbest marketing idea. I would buy a girl a drink but not at the crazy prices they charge. I would probably buy her 2 at normal price if I liked her and it would add up to the same as 1 lady drink. I avoid beer bars because I would prefer to go sit by myself than have someone annoy me to buy drinks. I do tip, sometimes generously.

Yes, well there are plenty of bars where if you by drinks for a lady they are the same price.

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, Wongkitlo said:

Lady drinks is the dumbest marketing idea. I would buy a girl a drink but not at the crazy prices they charge.

I am sure many are put off by the OTT lady drink prices in beer-bars and Go-Gos. Now around 200 baht, so not cheap. And sometimes they go dance immediately in the GGBs, which is really treating customers like dirt in my estimation.

[petermik]

On 3/18/2021 at 1:33 AM, jacko45k said:

I was in a GGB last night, I had just left a beer bar place where I paid 60 baht for my SML, and was sitting there sipping on one that cost me 140. Tequila girls were making a nuisance of themselves and a cute young girl, who claimed not to have been barfined for 3 months, was telling me it would be 1200 baht. Later, I had bought her 2 LDs at some overpriced silly amount, and was now sat alone as she had to 'go dance'. You know what, if they go bankrupt they deserve it. 

 

And here`s me thinking jacko would never get suckered into that trap...........????

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, petermik said:

And here`s me thinking jacko would never get suckered into that trap...........????

I prevented it with LD1, making a bit of fuss, but the skullduggery came about when I bought LD2...she might have said she was going to the bathroom and next I saw she was up there! It's a losing battle.....

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

I am sure many are put off by the OTT lady drink prices in beer-bars and Go-Gos. Now around 200 baht, so not cheap. And sometimes they go dance immediately in the GGBs, which is really treating customers like dirt in my estimation.

LD prices don't bother me because I very rarely buy any. Sometimes I give a 100 for benefits in kind

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, scubascuba3 said:

LD prices don't bother me because I very rarely buy any. Sometimes I give a 100 for benefits in kind

Many places they won't sit with you unless you  buy.

[scubascuba3]

9 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Many places they won't sit with you unless you  buy.

yeah, I don't want them to sit with me, I often have to avoid eye contact to stop them coming over. To be fair the agogos I go to are good and the girls don't harass you for LDs