@BigStar

 

And again, you do not speak for "we". You do, however, try your best to twist my words out of context. I did not claim that there is a magic cure. Doubt you did not understand this the first time around. There was no backpedaling, no contradiction and no nonsense in my post.

 

As for your deflection regarding the lack of rationale offered for the President's release - none of what you posted actually addresses the point. There was no relevant information released. It's certainly not close to accepted practice given the many other cases dealt with, or the treatment being experimental.

 

You have nothing.

17 minutes ago, Tie Dye Samurai said:

I get it, he is the POTUS and it is in the best interest of country that he receive this kind of care and attention but do not insult the rest of our intelligence by saying his case is mild. 

All cases start mild. His stayed mild, and how that was accomplished is of medical interest and gives some hope for wider application. Exceptional cases may well receive experimental treatments; nothing new there. Hope that you never need one.

 

Mild is when you walk out of the hsp feeling well enough to do so after a few days. Not mild means you stay and get on a ventilator for a month or so and either die or suffer ill effects for months thereafter.

 

You probably need somebody whose relative has died after a struggle to enlighten you. I remember a friend of mine who once taught students far smarter than himself in an elite school. He often joked with them, "You may be smarter than I am, but I know more than you." It would be more intelligent not to confuse intelligence with knowledge."

7 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

These 210,000 I keep on reading about here, are they dead solely because of coronavirus, or happened to die while having corona? A vast difference. I remember an amusing meme back in spring. It was a photo of a Lambo some 1/2wit had driven off an elevated highway and managed to get the car stuck through a condo window about 5 stories up, with no way of surviving such a mangled wreck. The text read something along the lines of 'Here's the latest 2 corona victims." Food for thought....

 

Your tasteless joke got nothing to do with the preamble of your own post. Covid-19 is very good at giving people with preexisting conditions that extra push. You want to argue that it got nothing to do with the death toll. That it's just coincidence all these people died just now - go right ahead.

1 hour ago, J Town said:

Yeah . . . those 210,000+ dead people didn't get anywhere near the same treatment, and the tangerine sack of sins isn't out of the woods yet. Counting chickens a little early.

I am thinking that he will stick it to the people one last time as he croaks at his desk in the oval office and reign as a spirit or specter trying to scare any future democratic resident.  Ok, a little over the top but it is called sarcasm.

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

When it suits fans call him 'elderly', on other posts it's 'lion'. Maybe settle of a single narrative, eh?

 

Covid-19 was not described as 'killer virus from hell'. The mortality rate is not the issue so much as the rate of infection. That's been covered for months now, kinda hard to believe people still don't get it.

 

And yes, Trump 'happens to be the President of the United States' - which means he gets tested often, so infection can be detected and addressed in early stages. It also means he's got the best medical care and treatment, newest drugs and procedures. These aren't available to the general populace.

 

He was released from hospital but it wasn't made clear what his actual condition is, why he's not being subjected to quarantine as everyone else and what's the follow up treatment regime and prognosis. That Trump supporters celebrate this as clear cut 'proof' of anything is quite out there.

 

of course he won't quarantine.  he NEEDS to be in charge.  no way he's going to voluntarily pass power to the veep as other presidents have done when temporarily incapacitated.  blank papers don't sign themselves!

 

i think his greatest fear is that his supporters might find him unnecessary.  pence could just as well "make america great again," the stock market could surge, the wall could be built....all without the great conman at the helm.

 

or worse, they might find the world functions better without "our favorite president" looking to cause trouble.

22 minutes ago, Maestro said:

Excerpt from https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-may-not-be-out-of-the-woods-yet-as-he-leaves-hospital-doctor-says-2020-10-05:

 

 

 

What are the "discharge criteria after being treated for COVID-19" to which Dr. Sean Conley referred here?

The WHO guideline (which Trump doesn't meet) is:

 

"Criteria for discharging patients from isolation (i.e., discontinuing transmission-based precautions) without requiring retesting[1]:

• For symptomatic patients: 10 days after symptom onset, plus at least 3 additional days without symptoms (including without fever [2] and without respiratory symptoms)[3]
• For asymptomatic cases[4]: 10 days after positive test for SARS-CoV-2"

https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/criteria-for-releasing-covid-19-patients-from-isolation

 

The EU Centre for Disease Control recommendation (which he also doesn't meet) is:

 

"COVID-19 patients may be discharged from hospital and moved to home care (or other types of non-hospital care and isolation) based on:  clinical criteria (e.g. no fever for > 3 days, improved respiratory symptoms, pulmonary imaging showing obvious absorption of inflammation, no hospital care needed for other pathology, clinician assessment)  laboratory evidence of SARS-CoV-2 clearance in respiratory samples; 2 to 4 negative RT-PCR tests for respiratory tract samples (nasopharynx and throat swabs with sampling interval ≥ 24 hours). Testing at a minimum of 7 days after the first positive RT-PCR test is recommended for patients that clinically improve earlier.  Serology: appearance of specific IgG when an appropriate serological test is available".

 

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/COVID-19-Discharge-criteria.pdf

 

This link also references a number of other countries guidelines, including the CDC USA:

 

The CDC has the most lax guidelines, as it doesn't specify a minimum number of days to be spent in hospital.  Given that the throat swabs must be taken more than 24 hours apart, Trump appears to have spent the bare minimum time in hospital according to them.  It would be interesting to know if he still has a fever or not.  If so, then it would seem he was discharged too soon.

10 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

These 210,000 I keep on reading about here, are they dead solely because of coronavirus, or happened to die while having corona? A vast difference. I remember an amusing meme back in spring. It was a photo of a Lambo some 1/2wit had driven off an elevated highway and managed to get the car stuck through a condo window about 5 stories up, with no way of surviving such a mangled wreck. The text read something along the lines of 'Here's the latest 2 corona victims." Food for thought....

"the US suffered some 260,000 more deaths than the five-year average between 1 March and 16 August, compared to 169,000 confirmed COVID-19 deaths during that period."

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

The number of official covid-19 deaths is much lower (-25%) than the number of excess deaths. It means it's been underestimated, not overestimated as you suggests.

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

And again, you do not speak for "we". You do, however, try your best to twist my words out of context. I did not claim that there is a magic cure. Doubt you did not understand this the first time around. There was no backpedaling, no contradiction and no nonsense in my post.

You may stay in denial. Yes, I understood you were making a non-sequitur and creating a straw man. Are you done?????

 

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

There was no relevant information released. It's certainly not close to accepted practice given the many other cases dealt with, or the treatment being experimental.

 

White House physician Sean Conley says President Donald Trump has "met or exceeded all hospital discharge criteria" after being treated for the disease caused by the novel coronavirus.

   --https://www.statnews.com/2020/10/05/trump-discharged-from-walter-reed/

 

So now go ahead and give us the hospital discharge criteria and how Trump did not in fact meet them. Or is this just more hot air? We'd all like to know. This is important!

2 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

He has been pumped full of experimental drugs to keep him propped up for the election. At this rate, he either succumbed to Covid or the aggressive use of experimental steroids will potentially give him dangerous side effects. The story far from over by a long shot. The next development may not be pleasant for Trump’s supporters. 

 

perhaps the biden campaign could demand a drug test before the next circus performance?

Just now, ChouDoufu said:

 

perhaps the biden campaign could demand a drug test before the next circus performance?

They should certainly demand a temperature check for fever.

2 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

The WHO guideline (which Trump doesn't meet) is:

 

"Criteria for discharging patients from isolation (i.e., discontinuing transmission-based precautions) without requiring retesting[1]:

• For symptomatic patients: 10 days after symptom onset, plus at least 3 additional days without symptoms (including without fever [2] and without respiratory symptoms)[3]
• For asymptomatic cases[4]: 10 days after positive test for SARS-CoV-2"

https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/criteria-for-releasing-covid-19-patients-from-isolation

 

The EU Centre for Disease Control recommendation (which he also doesn't meet) is:

 

"COVID-19 patients may be discharged from hospital and moved to home care (or other types of non-hospital care and isolation) based on:  clinical criteria (e.g. no fever for > 3 days, improved respiratory symptoms, pulmonary imaging showing obvious absorption of inflammation, no hospital care needed for other pathology, clinician assessment)  laboratory evidence of SARS-CoV-2 clearance in respiratory samples; 2 to 4 negative RT-PCR tests for respiratory tract samples (nasopharynx and throat swabs with sampling interval ≥ 24 hours). Testing at a minimum of 7 days after the first positive RT-PCR test is recommended for patients that clinically improve earlier.  Serology: appearance of specific IgG when an appropriate serological test is available".

 

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/COVID-19-Discharge-criteria.pdf

 

This link also references a number of other countries guidelines, including the CDC USA:

 

The CDC has the most lax guidelines, as it doesn't specify a minimum number of days to be spent in hospital.  Given that the throat swabs must be taken more than 24 hours apart, Trump appears to have spent the bare minimum time in hospital according to them.  It would be interesting to know if he still has a fever or not.  If so, then it would seem he was discharged too soon.

The Doctors did put some stress on the claim Trump had no fever but failed to say that a component of the pharmaceutical regime is very capable of suppressing that.

 

@BigStar

 

There were no non-sequitur, nor straw man offered - other than in your own repeated bogus claims. Are you done deflecting and making up stuff?

 

As for the second part of your deflection - it's been noted both on this topic and in media reports that the language used by Trump's physician is evasive. As in it is not made clear what these criteria are. That you try to spin it the other way around, doesn't change the fact that no actual, concrete information was provided.

 

You are not "we", you're just one hyper partisan poster.

Just now, Dumbastheycome said:

The Doctors did put some stress on the claim Trump had no fever but failed to say that a component of the pharmaceutical regime is very capable of suppressing that.

Exactly.  given that one of the CDC guidelines for release is to be free of fever without use of antipyretic medication, I guess they should stop medicating him to make sure he's still without a fever (if in fact he actually is).

4 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

The WHO guideline (which Trump doesn't meet) is:

 

"Criteria for discharging patients from isolation (i.e., discontinuing transmission-based precautions) without requiring retesting[1]:

• For symptomatic patients: 10 days after symptom onset, plus at least 3 additional days without symptoms (including without fever [2] and without respiratory symptoms)[3]
• For asymptomatic cases[4]: 10 days after positive test for SARS-CoV-2"

https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/criteria-for-releasing-covid-19-patients-from-isolation

 

The EU Centre for Disease Control recommendation (which he also doesn't meet) is:

 

"COVID-19 patients may be discharged from hospital and moved to home care (or other types of non-hospital care and isolation) based on:  clinical criteria (e.g. no fever for > 3 days, improved respiratory symptoms, pulmonary imaging showing obvious absorption of inflammation, no hospital care needed for other pathology, clinician assessment)  laboratory evidence of SARS-CoV-2 clearance in respiratory samples; 2 to 4 negative RT-PCR tests for respiratory tract samples (nasopharynx and throat swabs with sampling interval ≥ 24 hours). Testing at a minimum of 7 days after the first positive RT-PCR test is recommended for patients that clinically improve earlier.  Serology: appearance of specific IgG when an appropriate serological test is available".

 

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/COVID-19-Discharge-criteria.pdf

 

This link also references a number of other countries guidelines, including the CDC USA:

 

The CDC has the most lax guidelines, as it doesn't specify a minimum number of days to be spent in hospital.  Given that the throat swabs must be taken more than 24 hours apart, Trump appears to have spent the bare minimum time in hospital according to them.  It would be interesting to know if he still has a fever or not.  If so, then it would seem he was discharged too soon.

Those, as noted, are "guidelines," interpreted by qualified physicians according to case, as they should be. Walter Reed did so, and they know what they're doing. Further, they're also aimed at some average patient who likely has no professional care at home--totally incomparable to Trump's situation. When he needed to go in, he went in. At present, he simply doesn't need to be there, much as posters here want him to.

1 hour ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

he is not on a ventilator, is he ? 

he is not dying, is he ?

he is not in a hospital, is he ?

Worse he is a super spreader on drugs. 

4 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Those, as noted, are "guidelines," interpreted by qualified physicians according to case, as they should be. Walter Reed did so, and they know what they're doing. Further, they're also aimed at some average patient who likely has no professional care at home--totally incomparable to Trump's situation. When he needed to go in, he went in. At present, he simply doesn't need to be there, much as posters here want him to.

 

And yet, they would not say he tested negative before release. They wouldn't even make it clear when he tested negative/positive prior to that. So whether you trust their judgement, and whether you wish to disregard the possibility of the President bullying his way back to the White House - the question of him presenting a danger of infection to others remains.

2 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Those, as noted, are "guidelines," interpreted by qualified physicians according to case, as they should be. Walter Reed did so, and they know what they're doing. Further, they're also aimed at some average patient who likely has no professional care at home--totally incomparable to Trump's situation. When he needed to go in, he went in. At present, he simply doesn't need to be there, much as posters here want him to.

So if  you or I were hospitalized with symptomatic  Covid-19 and after a couple of days still identifiably infectious decided to  go home and  back to workplace would not most likely be restrained  from doing so ?

7 hours ago, steelepulse said:

How so?  Seeing as they were wearing n95 masks and using PPE, I don't see your argument. 

Doctors and nurses worldwide have worn these protective outfits etc and have died from Covid.....do you get it now?

I watched the footage of Trump’s arrival at the WH, he was visibly struggle to breath.

 

Keep the helicopter on standby. You 

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I wouldn't start crowing too soon, there's no telling what damage has been done to his lungs, or what will happen long term. Certainly none of us have to worry about brain impairment, his sense of right and wrong has been missing since childhood.

The Secret Service have sworn to take a bullet for him. After his latest publicity stunt, some must be wondering if they signed up to get a virus from him, by his own selfish actions, not any assassin.

I'd say you are deliberately ignoring the fact he had the best medical care in the world. For sure, better care than the 200,000 dead and 2.5 million active cases, many of whom were the victims when he trashed Obamacare and has done nothing to replace it. But don't let any facts get in the way of a trolling narrative.

just when you think he can't get any dumber, he surprises you.  The man is a moron and a dangerous one to easily influenced people with a low intelligence, just like him. 

9 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

So if  you or I were hospitalized with symptomatic  Covid-19 and after a couple of days still identifiably infectious decided to  go home and  back to workplace would not most likely be restrained  from doing so ?

Trump's supporters would have us believe that he's immune to treason charges, immune to tax fraud charges, and now immune to disease.  Or, could it be that he's so toxic, even a virus can't survive close contact?

 

 

3 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

So if  you or I were hospitalized with symptomatic  Covid-19 and after a couple of days still identifiably infectious decided to  go home and  back to workplace would not most likely be restrained  from doing so ?

Obviously it would all depend whether you could work at home safely and under sufficient care. If you could do that, would you insist on staying in the hospital?

1 minute ago, ballpoint said:

Trump's supporters would have us believe that he's immune to treason charges, immune to tax fraud charges, and now immune to disease.  Could it be that he's so toxic, even a virus can't survive?

IMO the saddest aspect is that Trump's supporters most demonstrably are so not much in support of the man but the crass ideology he demonstrates and enacts.

19 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

perhaps the biden campaign could demand a drug test before the next circus performance?

Trump refused the test before the debate....probably knew he was symptomatic at that point. He really doesn’t care about anybody but himself. We may find out down the road that this was all a hoax to boost his numbers before the election. I think he will find it has backfired on him, big time. What a sad pathetic human. We have met the enemy and he’s an idiot.

During the battle of Britain,  Churchill risked his life everyday to project leadership and courage to the people.

Trump is doing the 2020 version and it will catapult him to a landslide victory

2 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

IMO the saddest aspect is that Trump's supporters most demonstrably are so not much in support of the man but the crass ideology he demonstrates and enacts.

have you see the ideology that is possessing the left????

3 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Obviously it would all depend whether you could work at home safely and under sufficient care. If you could do that, would you insist on staying in the hospital?

Safely ? Sufficient  care? Unmasked in the presence of others and rely on a sophisticated medical  facility downstairs? The reality is that I would never be permitted the option to endanger!

3 minutes ago, Mansell said:

Trump refused the test before the debate....probably knew he was symptomatic at that point. He really doesn’t care about anybody but himself. We may find out down the road that this was all a hoax to boost his numbers before the election. I think he will find it has backfired on him, big time. What a sad pathetic human. We have met the enemy and he’s an idiot.

 

he's not completely sad and pathetic.  he/his campaign went to great efforts to contact anyone he (and other positive testers) had been in contact with, right?

 

hah, just kidding.  biden learned about it on the teevee news.  now that's one class act.

6 minutes ago, Canuck1966 said:

have you see the ideology that is possessing the left????

The  Left? Or the Opposition ?

10 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

he's not completely sad and pathetic.  he/his campaign went to great efforts to contact anyone he (and other positive testers) had been in contact with, right?

 

hah, just kidding.  biden learned about it on the teevee news.  now that's one class act.

and so did Christie, or Ohio Governor Dewine : "They have not talked to me about it, no," 

"Trump Didn’t Even Try to Keep His Own People Safe. The president apparently took no measures to protect his political advisers, aides, and donors, and largely left them in the dark once he had tested positive.3

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/trump-reckless/616610/