Crackdown on illegal foreign teachers: Heavy fines and deportation for those without work permits

[2530Ubon]

1 minute ago, warcy said:

There are lots of foreigners teaching English online while in Thailand. Are the police going to nab them as well?

If they are teaching Thai children, or working for a Thai company, then YES. It's illegal.

If they are teaching for a foreign company, not teaching Thai's or doing any business in Thailand, then NO. The Alien Employment Act only covers employment in Thailand for Thai companies. There are many digital nomads / remote workers here who stay on tourist entries. Whilst not technically legal, it isn't illegal (see forum post 2019, Ubon police couldn't arrest a bunch of koreans working remotely, as they were deemed to be doing activities not covered by the act.)

[polpott]

33 minutes ago, worldfun said:

chinese ENGLISH teachers? ????

No, Chinese mandarin speakers. Lots of Thai schools with Mandarin on the curriculum now.

[Blumpie]

This good no!  Teach kids I do, and I do well but Thailand make me no!

No good teach says Thailand?!  I do good!  

 

The continuation of the assault on the english language continues.... 

[DaveCW]

4 hours ago, tonray said:

What about the Thai teachers masquerading as Filipinos we just heard about the other day ?

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1185702-thais-pretending-to-be-filipino-foreign-language-teachers-is-widespread-thai-media/

 

And what about Thais masquerading as Teachers...  lol lol lol ????

[NoComment]

English teacher in my opinion should be a teacher who speaks English as their first language.

I know many young children who are confused with the Pinoy who doesn't speak English correctly.

Nevermind, the Chinese English speakers will be the majority from now on.

[Grusa]

1 hour ago, Odisan said:

Well, duh! Thailand wants qualified English teachers from the main countries, but when they start talking about $$$ they typically get no further than _$.

If they want a native English speaker, it needs to be £ not $.

[Patanawet]

5 hours ago, muratremix said:

Why they call a pinoy foreigner? Pinoy is a pinoy (filipino) and farang is a westerner. Asians are not farangs, period. 

No such word as 'farangs'! There is no plural -- one farang, two farang, three farang -- get it? Period.

[CM Dad]

5 hours ago, muratremix said:

Why they call a pinoy foreigner? Pinoy is a pinoy (filipino) and farang is a westerner. Asians are not farangs, period. 

A Filipino/Filipna is not referred to as a farang anywhere in the article.  However they are foreigners.  I sincerely hope you are not teaching using the English language at any scholl in Thailand since your first sentence is not correct. 

[ratcatcher]

9 minutes ago, Patanawet said:

No such word as 'farangs'! There is no plural -- one farang, two farang, three farang -- get it? Period.

https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the-plural-of/farang.html

[impulse]

55 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

If they are teaching Thai children, or working for a Thai company, then YES. It's illegal.

If they are teaching for a foreign company, not teaching Thai's or doing any business in Thailand, then NO. The Alien Employment Act only covers employment in Thailand for Thai companies. There are many digital nomads / remote workers here who stay on tourist entries. Whilst not technically legal, it isn't illegal (see forum post 2019, Ubon police couldn't arrest a bunch of koreans working remotely, as they were deemed to be doing activities not covered by the act.)

 

I suspect you'd find that they couldn't didn't arrest the Korean workers because they had paid the correct tea money.  Of course that wouldn't make it into any public media. "The Act" doesn't just cover employment for Thai companies.  They bang up many people who aren't affiliated with any Thai companies at all.  Freelance European boat builders and Chinese wedding photographers come to mind immediately.

 

And if something isn't technically legal, that means it's illegal.  It may fly under the radar.  It may even be tolerated under current conditions.  But it's illegal.  Like teaching English without a WP.  It's been tolerated for a long time.  Now it's apparently not.  But we'll see.

Edited October 8, 2020 by impulse

[teacherclaire]

5 hours ago, muratremix said:

Why they call a pinoy foreigner? Pinoy is a pinoy (filipino) and farang is a westerner. Asians are not farangs, period. 

for·eign·er

/ˈfôrənər/

Learn to pronounce ( special discount for you) 

 

noun

A person born in or coming from a country other than one's own.

 

 

 

   

[CM Dad]

11 minutes ago, Grusa said:

If they want a native English speaker, it needs to be £ not $.

Get a life Grusa.  The pound is only used in a small island country in Northern Europe.

[Ventenio]

2 hours ago, OumarhindaOunsingha said:

4 hours ago, userabcd said:

Teaching officially without necessary educational credentials, licenses and without work permits should be treated as fraud.

Still, they could be excellent teachers.

an excellent teacher wouldn't commit fraud

[2530Ubon]

7 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I suspect you'd find that they couldn't didn't arrest the Korean workers because they had paid the correct tea money.  Of course that wouldn't make it into any public media. "The Act" doesn't just cover employment for Thai companies.  They bang up may people who aren't affiliated with any Thai companies at all.  Freelance Italian boat builders and Chinese wedding photographers come to mind immediately.

Yes, but those boat builders and wedding photographers would be making money in Thailand and getting paid in Baht no? They are working in Thailand! Remote workers are doing jobs Thais can't do, aren't technically working in Thailand as the work is conducted online on a server based abroad, are not working for a Thai company, and are not being paid in Baht, they are being paid into a bank account abroad and transfer USD/GBP/EURO to Thailand

Edited October 8, 2020 by 2530Ubon

[ukrules]

They should permanently shut down any school found to be employing them without work permits - including government schools.

 

We all know this issue is created by the schools and not the teachers themselves.

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

2 hours ago, connda said:

My guess that most teachers here that are now working here legally with a Non-B visa and a WP started off at their first job working "illegally" on a tourist visa (or some other visa) and no WP during their initial three to six month probation.

Absolutely correct. Most new teachers arrive in Thailand on a tourist visa, and on this look for jobs. The employers want them to be in the country before giving interviews and making considerations. When given the offer, they're expected to work. They may call the 3-6 month period "probation", but it's merely how long the process takes to get the WP and Non-B. During this period they're technically "illegal", though the legal path is next to impossible. Sit around without work? Expect the school to wait for you?

 

Quite often through the course of this process, the school may ask the new teacher to do a visa run and get the Non-B at a consulate, if they run into difficulties converting it in country. This has been made impossible by the Covid situation. Likewise, the automatic Covid extension many of us have been getting is unable to be converted to a Non-B. Thus, if you were either a new teacher when the Covid lockdown began, or you had just changed jobs at the beginning of this term, which are many of us, you now find yourself in this difficult situation.

 

No, not backpackers with dodgy degrees, not sexpats, not freeloaders or those taking advantage of anything, or anything else the TVF Barstool Brigade in their glass houses love to toss beer bottles at. Many of us are perfectly qualified, experienced professionals, among the many caught up by Covid, and apparently now, a witch hunt.

[ChipButty]

7 minutes ago, Ventenio said:

an excellent teacher wouldn't commit fraud

You are kidding us?

[KhaoNiaw]

59 minutes ago, Expat Tom said:

I have met many find teachers from the Philippines but they are not "Native English Speakers". If Thailand wants their children to speak English with a Filipino accent then by all means, run all of the farang out and replace them non-native English speakers. 

I've met many Thais taught by teachers from the Philippines but yet to meet one who has a Filipino accent. Considering how many Filipino teachers have been teaching here for many years, if there was actually anything in this then half the Thai population would be speaking with Filipino accents. Equally, I've met many Thais taught by native speakers and of course they don't pick up a native English accent either. Nothing wrong with that at all - which native English accent would you like them to use anyway?   

[ChipButty]

1 minute ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

Absolutely correct. Most new teachers arrive in Thailand on a tourist visa, and on this look for jobs. The employers want them to be in the country before giving interviews and making considerations. When given the offer, they're expected to work. They may call the 3-6 month period "probation", but it's merely how long the process takes to get the WP and Non-B. During this period they're technically "illegal", though the legal path is next to impossible. Sit around without work? Expect the school to wait for you?

 

Quite often through the course of this process, the school may ask the new teacher to do a visa run and get the Non-B at a consulate, if they run into difficulties converting it in country. This has been made impossible by the Covid situation. Likewise, the automatic Covid extension many of us have been getting is unable to be converted to a Non-B. Thus, if you were either a new teacher when the Covid lockdown began, or you had just changed jobs at the beginning of this term, which are many of us, you now find yourself in this difficult situation.

 

No, not backpackers with dodgy degrees, not sexpats, not freeloaders or those taking advantage of anything, or anything else the TVF Barstool Brigade in their glass houses love to toss beer bottles at. Many of us are perfectly qualified, experienced professionals, among the many caught up by Covid, and apparently now, a witch hunt.

Then why are you in Thailand?

[impulse]

10 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

Yes, but those boat builders and wedding photographers would be making money in Thailand and getting paid in Baht no? They are working in Thailand! Remote workers are doing jobs Thais can't do, aren't technically working in Thailand as the work is conducted online on a server based abroad, are not working for a Thai company, and are not being paid in Baht, they are being paid into a bank account abroad and transfer USD/GBP/EURO to Thailand

 

You're confusing the requirement for a WP with professions reserved for Thai citizens.  2 very separate issues, often conflated.  Incorrectly. 

 

All foreigners working in Thailand are required to have a WP.  (With the caveats about some flying under the radar and some being tolerated under current conditions- but those conditions change as this thread indicates)  There are some professions for which they will not issue a WP to a foreigner.

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by impulse

[jackdd]

5 minutes ago, ukrules said:

They should permanently shut down any school found to be employing them without work permits - including government schools.

 

We all know this issue is created by the schools and not the teachers themselves.

They could just do something like increasing the fine for the school to 1 million THB per case, and if a teacher turns himself in he won't be prosecuted. I guess the problem would solve itself soon.

[lust]

Sigh.. Some of the members on this site make me wanna delete my account.

[Dolmance]

In Amphoe San Sai, I taught Thai people to refer to Americans as 'gringos.'  I'm hoping it catches on, as sort of a Thai legacy for myself.

[Ketyo]

Chinese: 778

 

Which Thais want to learn Chinese?  I guess the ruling party might want to cosy up to their puppetmasters and paymasters. But how many normal sane people would want to learn it? Approximately zero! And how many Chinese can teach good English. Again zero!. Aren't the authorities suspicious? The crackdown should start with the Chinese. Should be easy fish to catch.

[DavisH]

The Labor Department alrady processes work permits for teachers. They don't need to "check" anything. The only way to find illegal teachers is for immigration police to raid schools and check on all teachers on the premises. It has happened before and it seems it will happen again in the near future. The teachers at my school keep their work permits with themselves (at home), so that could get interesting:) I hope a photocopy would suffice. 

[DavisH]

So agents will cop huge fines. What about the school directors that  knowlingly hire them without the correct paperwork? 100K a teacher should suffice, but that is still loose change for some schools that net more than 100M a year. 

[teacherclaire]

For teaching agencies that hire illegal foreign teachers, the penalties are much more severe. 

 

 

Here's a great example from a well-known website: 

 

  We are looking for NES teachers or European teachers with a degree, "but  foreigners without a degree and teaching experience can also apply."

 

Of course, would they never use Photoshop and make a degree for the new employees who believe them that they do not need a degree because that would be totally illegal.

 

  On the other hand, would Google tell them in a Nanosecond that it's a lie? 

   The pay for an NES teacher with a degree is only 3 K less than they pay for an NNES without a degree. 

 

   That doesn't make any sense, and it should have an end.

This is the end, my lonely friend, the end. 

 

Go for it, Somchai! 

 

          

 

        

 

    

[ChipButty]

11 minutes ago, lust said:

Sigh.. Some of the members on this site make me wanna delete my account.

Turn the light off on your way out

[ChipButty]

9 minutes ago, DavisH said:

The Labor Department alrady processes work permits for teachers. They don't need to "check" anything. The only way to find illegal teachers is for immigration police to raid schools and check on all teachers on the premises. It has happened before and it seems it will happen again in the near future. The teachers at my school keep their work permits with themselves (at home), so that could get interesting:) I hope a photocopy would suffice. 

Nope

[teacherclaire]

6 minutes ago, DavisH said:

The Labor Department alrady processes work permits for teachers. They don't need to "check" anything. The only way to find illegal teachers is for immigration police to raid schools and check on all teachers on the premises. It has happened before and it seems it will happen again in the near future. The teachers at my school keep their work permits with themselves (at home), so that could get interesting:) I hope a photocopy would suffice. 

It would for some, but most would send you home to get the real one.