Thai Banks now charging ATM fee, PLUS : A 5% transaction fee?

[RichCor]

[Pravda]

Isn't this a dynamic exchange rate offered for over a decade now mostly at merchants when paying with credit card? 

[Pib]

30 minutes ago, Pravda said:

Isn't this a dynamic exchange rate offered for over a decade now mostly at merchants when paying with credit card? 

It's offered by both merchants and ATMs.   Not uncommon to see a DCC markup as high as 5.9% now.

 

DCC bad for the customer, good for the bank/merchant. 

[Pib]

44 minutes ago, RichCor said:

 

Yeap....that's a DCC screen....anytime you see a screen offering you an exchange rate it's a DCC transaction. 

 

I'm just surprised the screen also mentioned a 5.5% markup as past screens I've seen only showed the exchange rate.   Now a markup means a 5.5% "lower/worst" exchange rate than the card-network (Mastercard/Visa) but I expect there are some folks who may think markup means they are getting a better deal.   

 

And if your card-issuing home country bank charges a foreign transaction fee regardless of what currency the transaction occurred in (e.g., baht or dollars) you'll also get whacked their fee which is typically around 3% for many banks.  So, if a person accepted the DCC transaction at 5.5% and their card-issuing bank has a 3% foreign transaction fee then they have just got hit with a 8.5% lower exchange rate PLUS the Bt220 Thai bank ATM use fee for a foreign card.

 

When seeing such a screen select the option that does "not" accept the offered conversion rate....in above case select the "Accept Without Currency Conversion" which means are don't want their rip-off DCC rate and instead want to continue on and get the card-network rate.

 

DCC bad for the customer; DCC good for the bank/merchant. 

 

[Pib]

6 hours ago, RichCor said:

One deceptive thing about the screen besides the overall general wording IMO is "where" the exchange rate of 30.86 is shown.  Now it's unknown where that rate comes from....maybe it's the Visa/Mastercard rate...maybe it's one of the bank's local rates,  but it's not the rate you are getting.  The rate you will be getting is 5.5% lower.  But with that 30.86 showing under the With Conversion column and the tendency of folks not wanting to spend too much time evaluating ATM screen/wording/math especially if people are standing in line behind them, they would probably just think that 30.86 ain't a bad rate and then press the Accept With Currency Conversion selection which means they have just received a rate of 29.16 (i..e, 5.5% lower than the 30.86 rate shown on the screen. 

 

Bt4,220 divided by $144.71 equals a rate of 29.16.  And if your home country card-issuing bank charges a  foreign transaction fee of say 3% another home country bank charge of $4.34 is going to be added to the Thai ATM charge of $144. 71....a person is now up to a $149.05 charge hitting your home country account.

 

Yeap, DCC bad for the customer; DCC good for the bank/merchant.  And if your home country bank charges a foreign transaction fee that just salt being rubbed into the wound.   When you see a DCC screen on an ATM be sure to read it slowly and make sure you press the selection that says continue without conversion (i.e, helll no to your ripoff DCC rate)....and also be aware of what your home country card-issuing bank may charge for a foreign transaction.

[soi3eddie]

6 hours ago, Pib said:

It's offered by both merchants and ATMs.   Not uncommon to see a DCC markup as high as 5.9% now.

 

DCC bad for the customer, good for the bank/merchant. 

 

True. NEVER accept currency conversion by the ATM or A Retailer. You will pay much more than letting your card issuer bank do the conversion.

 

[Pib]

Just some more ATM screen examples of DCC offers.   The DCC screens/wording will vary from bank to bank....just be sure to read them closely keeping in mind the wording used my be vague and intentionally misleading. 

 

Just be sure to pick the selection to where you continue "without" conversion when means your are declining the ATM's exchange rate option and you want the card-network (i.e, Visa/Mastercard) exchange rate instead.

 

DCC use to be around 3% lower (worst) than the card-network rate but now within Thailand it has climbed to the 5 to 6% ballpark for some banks/merchants.    I've personally seen 5.9% on some purchases where the merchant attempted DCC but I declined and in this thread RichCor posted an Thai bank ATM DCC image of 5.5%.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dick Warberg]

On 11/18/2020 at 11:34 AM, Dick Warberg said:

Have had similar experience with both Krungsri and SCB. Spoke with people at Krungsri and was told it was all my US bank. Did a trial at the ATM there to withdraw 1,000B and study the screens on the ATM thinking at any point I could cancel the transaction. Got to the screen that told me about the 5% exchange rate mark-up being offered, a choice of currencies, and currency conversion provided by Bank of Ayudhya PLC

At the bottom of this screen a choice was offered: Bottom RH button to accept this rate; bottom LH button to not accept. For my previous experience with this I had just automatically hit the RH button since I wanted the cash. This time I hit the LH button thinking I would get a screen asking me if I wanted another service or wished to cancel the transaction. Out pops 1000 B and a transaction slip of old showing just the 1000B and the 220 B fee. Currently awaiting the transaction to be show up on my account but fully expect it to be at the usual, no mark-up, exchange rate.

 

[Dick Warberg]

Further to above, My 1,000 B withdrawal was  completed at the normal exchange rate for the day, 30.13. No 5% mark up!!

 

Suggest all read the screens carefully and do not accept the "Offered Marked up Exchange Rate"..

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

One more thing about a bank ATM offered DCC rate.   Do not assume the offered DCC rate is based on being X-percentage lower than the Visa/Mastercard rate.   

 

The bank's offered DCC is probably based on its "Notes Buying" Rate....that is, when you walk into a bank with foreign currency in-hand to exchange it.   A bank's Note's Buying rate is the lowest of all its rates....lower than it's Cheque/Sight Bill Buying Rate and TT Buying rate.   OK, you are now starting off with a low rate and then, repeat, then the bank is going to apply a hedging margin/markup of say 3%.   Below is a zoom-in snapshot of a Krungsri ATM DCC screen where they talk their DCC rate....they say it based on their Notes Buying Rate with a 3% markup.

 

I took a look at the 11 Nov 2020 Mastercard exchange rate...it was 30.18 THB/USD.   The 11 Nov Krungsri opening Notes Rate was 29.12 if exchanging $1 Notes.....29.84 if exchanging $50-$100 notes.  If the Krungsri DCC rate is based on their $1 Notes Buying Rate then that rate is 3.5% below the Mastercard rate....and then Krungsri applies another 3% charge....that totals up to being 6.5% below the Mastercard rate. 

 

Now if Krungsri used the 29.84 Notes Buying Rate for $50-$100 Notes, the that equates to being 1.13% below the Mastercard rate...and then Krungsri applies another 3% charge....that totals up to 4.13%    

 

And above screen shoot was an old screen shot....who knows if Krungsri still follows the same method of determining their DCC rate but my guess is they do.

 

And don't forget any foreign transaction fee your home country card-issuing bank may apply with many applying a 3% charge.   And then there is also the Thai bank Bt220 ATM Use Fee. 

 

Unfortunately, nothing new about DCC....its offered by many bank ATMs/merchants around the world....it's a real money maker for them as many people simply don't understand DCC...or they are a tourist on holiday not worried much about money as they are in their two week millionaire state of mind.....and many don't know whether/what foreign transaction fee their home country card-issuing  bank may apply.   You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

[RichCor]

In the image instance I posted, I hit 'without' and the damn Kasikorn Thai Farmers Bank machine did it anyway, printed the screen on the receipt.  So I'm avoiding using their machines.

 

I jut did a Q&D spreadsheet to see what conversion rate I've been getting with other bank ATMs since Sept 20 and the daily rate varies between 31.484 (Oct 5) and 30.14 (Nov 15) and continuing it's direction downward.

 

The 5.5% exchange rate markup transaction on Sept 20 had come in at 29.16

[Bradmeister]

On 11/4/2020 at 7:55 AM, mtls2005 said:

 

K.C. Burnt Ends fan here.

 

That said, can you describe your transaction in detail?

 

You withdrew X amount of THB at an ATM using a U.S.-based debit card, and your U.S. account was debited by Y amount of USD. Date?

 

For a Thai bank to charge 5%, they would have to dispense 28,500 THB on a 30,000 THB request. Is that what happened?

 

U.S. Bank name?

 

Based on what little info you've provided, my best guess is that your U.S. bank is charging the extra fee. In the U.S. a Cash Advance can incur a 5% fee, or a one0time fee of $10.

 

Not seeing any mention of a 5% fee on the most recent Krungsri (8 Sep 2020) service fee schedule. Just seeing the 220 Baht ATM fee.

Young Man,

 

Let me respond to your inquiry....

 

No it is not a fee exercised by the USA Bank.

I took the liberty of calling 3 branch managers of 3 different locations in several states.

 

To give you a better understanding of the situation,; I sometimes question authority, and if it seems that something does not smell right, one should investigate further and not eat it.

 

Having said that: Yes, you are correct in your conclusion.... on that particular day, 50USD was deducted from my account for a "Calculation Fee" ..... but the "Rabbit Hole"goes much deeper.

 

Since my original post I have sought out as many banks and the corresponding ATM's and my sampling so far includes Kbank at 5.5% of transaction, Krungskri and TMB at 5% of transaction, and UOB at 3.5% of transaction. 

 

I will continue this investigation and gather more data to report back to our fellow posters and forum members. 

 

Lets see if I can find the pic and attach of UOB screen.....

[lopburi3]

5 minutes ago, Bradmeister said:

Young Man,

 

Let me respond to your inquiry....

 

No it is not a fee exercised by the USA Bank.

I took the liberty of calling 3 branch managers of 3 different locations in several states.

 

To give you a better understanding of the situation,; I sometimes question authority, and if it seems that something does not smell right, one should investigate further and not eat it.

 

Having said that: Yes, you are correct in your conclusion.... on that particular day, 50USD was deducted from my account for a "Calculation Fee" ..... but the "Rabbit Hole"goes much deeper.

 

Since my original post I have sought out as many banks and the corresponding ATM's and my sampling so far includes Kbank at 5.5% of transaction, Krungskri and TMB at 5% of transaction, and UOB at 3.5% of transaction. 

 

I will continue this investigation and gather more data to report back to our fellow posters and forum members. 

 

Lets see if I can find the pic and attach of UOB screen.....

And that is DCC (Dynamic currency conversion) and you just decline it.  It has been around for years and is nothing new - but more banks are probably pushing it as it is a money maker as the conversion is very much in the banks favor.  Just say no and bill your card in baht (continue without conversion). 

[treetops]

On 12/16/2020 at 12:55 PM, Bradmeister said:

Since my original post I have sought out as many banks and the corresponding ATM's and my sampling so far includes Kbank at 5.5% of transaction, Krungskri and TMB at 5% of transaction, and UOB at 3.5% of transaction.

 

They are all optional fees for allowing the bank or ATM owner to do the currency exchange for you.  You should have pressed to continue without conversion and the fee would not have been charged.  DCC, as first suggested over a month ago.

[deptrai]

First time back in Thailand in a couple years and noticed this.  My wife hit the "accept" button at the airport while I was dealing with lost luggage.  She withdrew 5,000 THB and my bank shows a deduction of US$166.46 or US$30.04/THB.  

I withdrew 10,000 THB last night and did not accept and see a deduction of $306.45 or $32.63/THB.

 

My (Charles Schwab) bank refunds all ATM fees at the end of each month and I think the 220 THB fee is buried in the deductions.