6 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

You realise that you're saying you're happy for the UK government's taxation policy to be dictated by someone else?

 

And you call that freedom ????.

Yet again you twist a post.......Do you not realise you're doing it.....?.....????

5 hours ago, david555 said:

And....not forgetting having better pensions than U.K. ....and never frozen wherever we live on this big World ...????????

No tricks needed ...no waiting list for be accepted medical care if returning even for short time or re-patriating home country .....is based on purely nationality right only ????

Totally off topic and nothing to do with the EU.....

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Totally off topic and nothing to do with the EU.....

That was a reply to a poster if you did not see that ?..

 

Not a post in general ....but did it hurt to read it ...?

Sorry but it was not adressed to you....????

5 hours ago, luckyluke said:

By becoming a member of the E.U.

Belgium is still called Belgium.

We still have the same quantity of land and water, nothing was taken from us. 

We still have a king, Belgium didn't become a republic, like Germany and France. 

Our government has still the freedom to issue laws and regulations proper for its citizens. 

We still have our problems between Flemish and Walloons. 

But :

We have now the Euro instead of the Belgian Frank. 

 

We learned to live with it. 

 

 

 

 

But Belgium is not the Island UK, our Brexit is being hampered by your lot wanting use of our waters, and because of that refusal uses threats, but, that is your EU, your club, your currency.

The UK will no longer be told what it can and can't do, if you are happy with that, great, the UK isn't...Even Poirot would agree with me, after all, he did escape to a green and more pleasant land....????

 

5 minutes ago, david555 said:

That was a reply to a poster if you did not see that ?..

 

Not a post in general ....but did it hurt to read it ...?

Sorry but it was not adressed to you....????

So I can't reply to a post, that's new to me, is that a new EU law...?   ????

All these delays have not been without purpose.

 

Be assured, today’s news from Washington has just changed the math.

1 minute ago, transam said:

So I can't reply to a post, that's new to me, is that a new EU law...?   ????

Yes you can , but your reply just showed that I Cant it seems 

Oh that English privilage again ????

3 minutes ago, david555 said:

Yes you can , but your reply just showed that I Cant it seems 

Oh that English privilage again ????

No, your envy.....????

15 minutes ago, transam said:

No, your envy.....????

Envy for what ...? ????

I think i go save a mod work by removing another  bickering  post and stop reply as it seems you are not happy under your skin ....

Yes 7 day's only left ....

 

Unless Boris find another cann to kick further road ..????

Bye!

2 minutes ago, transam said:

The UK will no longer be told what it can and can't do, if you are happy with that, great,

If Belgians were told, by others than their own government, what they can do and not, they won't accept it.

But we don't. 

Well we are not aware of, if it is the case.

If it doesn't hurt concretely the man of the  street, we have no reason to complain, and let this E.U. thing being there, if it is that what our government wants.

In fact I never read here, and on other forums, that in other European countries of the E.U. the man of the street daily life is affected by the E.U..

It seems, that for one or another reason, it influence, concretely, only the  man of the street in the U.K..

To be able to judge, it would be fine to know a few of these constraints which have a direct impact on the U.K. man in the street daily life, and which will thus disappear next year. 

2 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

If Belgians were told, by others than their own government, what they can do and not, they won't accept it.

But we don't. 

Well we are not aware of, if it is the case.

If it doesn't hurt concretely the man of the  street, we have no reason to complain, and let this E.U. thing being there, if it is that what our government wants.

In fact I never read here, and on other forums, that in other European countries of the E.U. the man of the street daily life is affected by the E.U..

It seems, that for one or another reason, it influence, concretely, only the  man of the street in the U.K..

To be able to judge, it would be fine to know a few of these constraints which have a direct impact on the U.K. man in the street daily life, and which will thus disappear next year. 

Can you not dissect my posts please....????

3 minutes ago, transam said:

Can you not dissect my posts please....????

I am sorry, no.

Now it is of course up to you, if you want to help me or not, by posting here a few of these constraints.

 

1 hour ago, luckyluke said:

Now it is of course up to you, if you want to help me or not, by posting here a few of these constraints.

You seems to be confused by this quote transam.

 

I am aware my English is not always perfectly understandable for Britons.

 

I will try to do better :

You claimed that the UK can't do what it wants due to the E.U..

I claim that this is not the case in Belgium, and so far I know neither in other European countries member of the E.U..

That we, men in the street, don't feel any concrete influence from the E.U. in our daily life.

And if it is the case in the U.K., to let us know here, what they may be.

 

Hope it helps.

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, luckyluke said:

You seems to be confused by this quote transam.

 

I am aware my English is not always perfectly understandable for Britons.

 

I will try to do better :

You claimed that the UK can't do what it wants due to the E.U..

I claim that this is not the case in Belgium, and so far I know neither in other European countries member of the E.U..

That we, men in the street, don't feel any concrete influence from the E.U. in our daily life.

And if it is the case in the U.K., to let us know here, what they may be.

 

Hope it helps.

 

 

 

 

 

Aha but you do. You are not clever enough to know what ???? most of us are also not clever enough, however, I think UK workers will lose a lot of benefits which they gained by the UK being part of the EU. I really don't  see any benefits from the UK leaving the EU except imaginary ones, however, that said we need to protect what little benefits we have/own from outside exploitation.  Free access to UK waters for  foreign fishermen is too big a price to pay. If you want UK fish you buy them! Unless of course you give us all free German cars ????????

5 hours ago, transam said:

The UK will no longer be told what it can and can't do

How are you going to trade on WTO rules then? There’s a reason it’s called “WTO rules” and not “UK rules”. 

11 hours ago, david555 said:

"exactly the inflexible situation and decision making UK is happy to move away from."

 

So why sitting than 4 years on that negotiation table ......hoping for what ..?

E.U. going flat belly ?????

Forget .... you lost 4 years ...will not happen ...go rules the waves ...not rules the E.U....????

On Thai forum you should well understand the concept of face in negotiation, Barnier cannot sell out even one of the EU member states to facilitate a deal, inflexible, the UK has the more ability to be flexible and accept some adjustment but will not concede on all fronts because the EU is immovable due to its own rigid constraints

12 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

How are you going to trade on WTO rules then? There’s a reason it’s called “WTO rules” and not “UK rules”. 

.....told what to do in its own country....but you carry on, perhaps you come from one of the 27 with its hand out...

 

 

1 hour ago, uncleP said:

Free access to UK waters for  foreign fishermen is too big a price to pay. If you want UK fish you buy them! Unless of course you give us all free German cars

 

In my opinion, that is why negotiations are still going on.

 

Not about foreign fishermen not being allowed to fish in U.K. waters;

the U.K. has no any substantial benefit in this;

the "sovereignty" of the waters being a pretext that some Britons are prepared to swallow.

 

But what is the price asked by the U.K., for this permission,

what is the price, the E.U. is prepared to pay for this permission.

 

The particular art of negotiation,

when negotiators can congratulate each other, for a job well done,

when the base of both parties are convinced, each of them in particular, that they are the ones who win, and the others the ones who lose.

1 hour ago, 473geo said:

On Thai forum you should well understand the concept of face in negotiation, Barnier cannot sell out even one of the EU member states to facilitate a deal, inflexible, the UK has the more ability to be flexible and accept some adjustment but will not concede on all fronts because the EU is immovable due to its own rigid constraints

What you are saying is  just the same on the other side ..E.U. side ....so i am sure NO deal is the only possible outcome if both stay same stance ....bsides E.U. is not the leaver ....your U.K rightious choice .....so make your future on your own if no conceding

E.U. did not started brexit ...is all yours ????

 

Pot blame ketlle ????

5 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

 

In my opinion, that is why negotiations are still going on.

 

Not about foreign fishermen not being allowed to fish in U.K. waters;

the U.K. has no any substantial benefit in this;

the "sovereignty" of the waters being a pretext that some Britons are prepared to swallow.

 

But what is the price asked by the U.K., for this permission,

what is the price, the E.U. is prepared to pay for this permission.

 

The particular art of negotiation,

when negotiators can congratulate each other, for a job well done,

when the base of both parties are convinced, each of them in particular, that they are the ones who win, and the others the ones who lose.

Big quota for fishing are already years sold to the big E.U fishing company's for good money by U.K. aprouval that time ...they forgot apparantly ....or money finished already ? ????

4 minutes ago, david555 said:

What you are saying is  just the same on the other side ..E.U. side ....so i am sure NO deal is the only possible outcome if both stay same stance ....bsides E.U. is not the leaver ....your U.K rightious choice .....so make your future on your own if no conceding

E.U. did not started brexit ...is all yours ????

 

Pot blame ketlle ????

When there is agreement to parting of the ways this can be amicable or uncompromising, the UK government can weather hard times for the UK, as the vote was in favour of leaving, not a government decision. If things remain good in the UK even better.

Barnier cannot afford to be the guy that sent the UK on their way to better times, and that is the main fear and causation of the rigid EU stance!!

22 minutes ago, david555 said:

Big quota for fishing are already years sold to the big E.U fishing company's for good money by U.K. aprouval that time ...they forgot apparantly ....or money finished already ? ????

Well if the U.K. can sell it once again with, no in lieu of substantial importance,

we all will have  to admit that Mr. Frost is a great negotiator, Machiavelli worthy. 

7 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Well if the U.K. can sell it once again with, no in lieu of substantial importance,

we all will have  to admit that Mr. Frost is a great negotiator, Machiavelli worthy. 

So what does he Ftost  have achieved besides keeping the boat of ...?

 

Same as Barnier ...just keeping the positions intact.

 

Happy divorces are in real life also very rare ....

36 minutes ago, 473geo said:

When there is agreement to parting of the ways this can be amicable or uncompromising, the UK government can weather hard times for the UK, as the vote was in favour of leaving, not a government decision. If things remain good in the UK even better.

Barnier cannot afford to be the guy that sent the UK on their way to better times, and that is the main fear and causation of the rigid EU stance!!

In a way you say same thing as if they should  give U.K, "that now out of the club thirth party " , same benefits as before for free no obligations.... so all others could rightious also ask same..hence why then a E. U.  membership needed and ...

 

BTW  why  on which grounds U.K  would be intitled  to such a priority advantage ...?

 

You understand it very clear ...so also accept it that it is not possible for E.U. to give in ...

 

Better U.K. loose a % instead ALL...

That's it ....and independance means ...on your own ...making a new future ...so put all sail's on an "rules the waves " ????

 

 

 

54 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

 

In my opinion, that is why negotiations are still going on.

 

Not about foreign fishermen not being allowed to fish in U.K. waters;

the U.K. has no any substantial benefit in this;

the "sovereignty" of the waters being a pretext that some Britons are prepared to swallow.

 

But what is the price asked by the U.K., for this permission,

what is the price, the E.U. is prepared to pay for this permission.

 

The particular art of negotiation,

when negotiators can congratulate each other, for a job well done,

when the base of both parties are convinced, each of them in particular, that they are the ones who win, and the others the ones who lose.

"But what is the price asked by the U.K., for this permission,

what is the price, the E.U. is prepared to pay for this permission."

 

It would appear that Barnier and Macron want their hake and eat it.

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

 

It would appear that Barnier and Macron want their hake and eat it.

 

Sure they want, but will they obtain it.

 

In a negotiation, If one want something reasonable, from the other party, start to ask something "big", it usually end by getting something reasonable;

even the "big" is sometimes acquired.

32 minutes ago, david555 said:

In a way you say same thing as if they should  give U.K, "that now out of the club thirth party " , same benefits as before for free no obligations.... so all others could rightious also ask same..hence why then a E. U.  membership needed and ...

 

BTW  why  on which grounds U.K  would be intitled  to such a priority advantage ...?

 

You understand it very clear ...so also accept it that it is not possible for E.U. to give in ...

 

Better U.K. loose a % instead ALL...

That's it ....and independance means ...on your own ...making a new future ...so put all sail's on an "rules the waves " ????

 

 

 

Indeed Independence means UK are free to negotiate whatever deal they can with the EU, if the EU are not going to cut a deal, then that is the choice of the EU, and as such do not try to push back on the UK.

UK is now as any other country trying to cut a deal with the EU that benefits both parties. Unfortunately not on the Barnier and EU agenda which is insisting on a deal to 'punish' the UK for leaving.

Rather highlighting the true goal of an EU union to use joint purchasing power to bully and threaten others into acceptance of trade terms beneficial to the EU.

11 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Indeed Independence means UK are free to negotiate whatever deal they can with the EU, if the EU are not going to cut a deal, then that is the choice of the EU, and as such do not try to push back on the UK.

UK is now as any other country trying to cut a deal with the EU that benefits both parties. Unfortunately not on the Barnier and EU agenda which is insisting on a deal to 'punish' the UK for leaving.

Rather highlighting the true goal of an EU union to use joint purchasing power to bully and threaten others into acceptance of trade terms beneficial to the EU.

Any way a leaver has never big influance one the one to become left .Compare it with a worker - boss relation or any other one  as there is no reason to win something out for the one become left...as the leaver leave anyway ...

 

Punisment ....? The leaver punish himself ....as it is / was own free choice.

,if feeling it as so is also own choice!

 

The E.U. had no choise in that , they only had to accept it against their wish but now start crying "punishment ".

 

As they are not obliged  a sudden to accept and change whatever that unsatisfied member like to become is a ridicolous stance .

 

A leaving party has never a strong negotiation power ...as  left anyway with no return option .

Once more " leave means leaving  " & "out means out " ....how many times it is not full blown out of HOC in our E.U. direction ..?

So final thing is none of both can / will not give in on their red lines ...both have decided that is their right and ultimate wish ...

 

One word ...a stalemate situation .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, transam said:

.....told what to do in its own country....

So the WTO is not doing that, or how are you trading under WTO rules? 
 

 

3 hours ago, transam said:

but you carry on, perhaps you come from one of the 27 with its hand out...

I don’t think it matters where I come from to see the flaw in your argument. 

Gentlemen, a lot has changed now that Biden has become POTUS and Johnson has lost his chum Trump.  Biden won't entertain a trade deal with the UK unless they cut a deal with the EU.  That has been made clear.  Also as an Irish/American Biden won't allow Britain to do anything that threatens the Good Friday agreement.  So no reneging on the withdrawal agreement.

 

Let's see how Johnson reacts.