Britain in 'final throw of the dice' as EU trade talks set to restart

[rooster59]

Britain in 'final throw of the dice' as EU trade talks set to restart

By Alistair Smout and Gabriela Baczynska

 

FILE PHOTO: Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson meets European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen in London, Britain January 8, 2020. REUTERS/Toby Melville/File Photo

 

LONDON/BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Britain and European Union negotiators will meet in Brussels on Sunday in what the British team said was a final throw of the dice to clinch a post-Brexit trade deal.

 

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson and European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen spoke on Saturday, and instructed their teams to resume the talks in a last ditch attempt to bridge significant differences.

 

Both sides acknowledge that time is running out to strike a deal before a transition arrangement expires at the end of the year and sources gave a pessimistic readout after Johnson and von der Leyen spoke on Saturday.

 

"This is the final throw of the dice," a British source close to the negotiations said.

 

"There is a fair deal to be done that works for both sides but this will only happen if the EU is willing to respect the fundamental principles of sovereignty and control."

 

EU Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier said that the Sunday talks with his British counterpart David Frost would show whether a new trade deal could be struck.

 

In a joint statement after their call, Johnson and von der Leyen said that "no agreement is feasible" if differences on the three thorny issues of governance, fisheries and competition rules, known as the level playing field, were not resolved.

 

Negotiations were paused on Friday after hopes of a deal earlier in the week evaporated, with the British team saying that the EU had made demands incompatible with its sovereignty and warning that the talks could end without agreement.

 

If they fail to reach a deal, a five-year Brexit divorce will end messily just as Britain and its former EU partners grapple with the economic cost of the COVID-19 pandemic.

 

(Reporting by Alistair Smout in London and Gabriela Baczynska in Brussels; Editing by Alexander Smith)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-12-06

 

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[Somtamnication]

Do not give our fisheries away nor become a legal client of the EU. Stay strong, Boris!

[Kadilo]

Thank goodness this charade will soon be over. 

[canopus1969]

Don't give in Boris, out means out !

[Bruntoid]

2 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

Do not give our fisheries away nor become a legal client of the EU. Stay strong, Boris!

The U.K. GAVE them the right to fish our waters - how many times does this need to be said before it sinks in ?  
 

Why are fish so important to Brexiteers ? It’s laughable. 
 

Brexit will cost 2% of GDP - fish contribute around 0.01% of GDP - guess which one the Brexiteers are agitated about ????????????

[luckyluke]

6 minutes ago, Bruntoid said:

The U.K. GAVE them the right to fish our waters -

It seems they sold the right, somewhere in 1990. 

I don't find the price paid,

and must important, in my opinion, the conditions. 

[Surelynot]

So the lying, cheating, third rate journalist now finds himself between a rock and a hard place.

 

Having promised an oven ready deal, sunny uplands and whatever other lies he dreamt up to get himself into No 10 it is decision time.....does he cave in to the EU and suffer the wrath of the swivel eyed loons in the ERG or tough it out, go no deal and damage the UK economy to an even greater extent than it will be with a deal.

 

He is doomed either way.....and good riddance.

 

 

[2530Ubon]

1 hour ago, Surelynot said:

He is doomed either way.....and good riddance.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/boris-johnson-approval-rating

As of the 23rd of November, Boris has a 34% approval rating, with 58% answering "Boris is performing badly." Perhaps this filandering buffoon will finally get his comeupance and be tossed aside like the the crusty jaz rag that he is.

[vogie]

16 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/boris-johnson-approval-rating

As of the 23rd of November, Boris has a 34% approval rating, with 58% answering "Boris is performing badly." Perhaps this filandering buffoon will finally get his comeupance and be tossed aside like the the crusty jaz rag that he is.

Would it be fair to say that Boris Johnsons approval started to fall around the time that the covid 19 kicked in, if so wouldn't it not follow that his approval rating is more down to the pandemic rather than his performance with Brexit.

Your chart shows a gradual rise in popularity when it peaked at a staggering 65% untill April when it suddenly fell.

 

[Proboscis]

5 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

Do not give our fisheries away nor become a legal client of the EU. Stay strong, Boris!

Don't worry. Boris will stay strong. He has made enough money and will have a pension for life paid for by the tax payer of the UK not to go weak.

 

However, our British chums may not find things so nice. There has been some talk about the "Spirit of the Blitz" - well, my grandfather fought in both world wars and my mum was in London during WW2 before being evacuated and they witness the so-called Spirit of the Blitz. Unfortunately what people don't mention was that because most of the able-bodied men were in military uniform, there were few policemen available and those that were did not have much time. Crime went through the roof - from petty theft to rape and even murder. If someone wanted to "off" someone at that time, what better time than to hit them over the head and pretend that they were hit by a flying brick during the bombing. Rationing and some food shortages gave way to a booming black market which was invariably run by mafias. A huge amount of crime went unreported and uninvestigated.

 

So if there is a no deal Brexit and the UK goes into a depression due to lack of trade and the aftermath of covid, our British chums may unfortunately experience the Spirit of the Blitz in the form of crime brought about by mass unemployment and to a lesser degree by disruption in supplies. But I suppose you can look on the bright side - you will not have anything to do with the EU or any of its member states. Even now, they are planning to use military exemption and military planes to fly in the vaccine from Belgium. That should indicate to you the seriousness of the situation.

[2530Ubon]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Would it be fair to say that Boris Johnsons approval started to fall around the time that the covid 19 kicked in, if so wouldn't it not follow that his approval rating is more down to the pandemic rather than his performance with Brexit.

Your chart shows a gradual rise in popularity when it peaked at a staggering 65% untill April when it suddenly fell.

 

Ergo, he has, and is, doing a terrible job managing COVID... Tiers that didn't work last time have been revamped and out in force again. Why not double down on a policy that didn't work last time and led to a second lockdown? 

[robblok]

6 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

Do not give our fisheries away nor become a legal client of the EU. Stay strong, Boris!

I agree stay strong Boris, make sure there is no deal. Then all of us can watch the UK GDP tumble even more. Covid  + Brexit + Scottish leave = little Britain with no economic prospects. 

 

Show the rest of the world that nationalism leads to ruin. 

[vogie]

24 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

Ergo, he has, and is, doing a terrible job managing COVID... Tiers that didn't work last time have been revamped and out in force again. Why not double down on a policy that didn't work last time and led to a second lockdown? 

But as this is a Brexit thread I thought you may be putting his poor popularity rating down to Brexit, which still remains to be seen.

Edited December 6, 2020 by vogie

[vogie]

18 minutes ago, robblok said:

I agree stay strong Boris, make sure there is no deal. Then all of us can watch the UK GDP tumble even more. Covid  + Brexit + Scottish leave = little Britain with no economic prospects. 

 

Show the rest of the world that nationalism leads to ruin. 

I just cannot understand why you are such an advocate for Scottish Nationalism?

[puck2]

9 minutes ago, vogie said:

I just cannot understand why you are such an advocate for Scottish Nationalism?

 

Easy to answer: because the majority of the ENGLISH people elected a plonker as PM !  Even a liar and a deal breaker!

[2530Ubon]

15 minutes ago, vogie said:

But as this is a Brexit thread I thought you may be putting his poor popularity rating down to Brexit, which still remains to be seen.

He's doing very poorly in that regard too:

A poll for YouGov of 1,623 British adults conducted last week, suggests that 50% now believe Britain was wrong to leave the European Union https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit-poll-minority-believe-was-right-to-leave-the-eu-2020-9 By contrast, just 39% of people said that Britain was right to leave the EU.

 

 

Once uncertain voters are removed from the total, the poll suggests 56% think Brexit was a mistake compared to 44% who still think it was right.

The survey also found that just 28% of people think the government is handling Britain's exit from the EU well, down from 30 points earlier in September. That compares to a total of 61% who think the government is handling it badly, up by 5 points from the beginning of September.

 

Even many Leave voters are dissatisfied with the government's progress, with 39% saying negotiations have been handled badly.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, 2530Ubon said:

He's doing very poorly in that regard too:

A poll for YouGov of 1,623 British adults conducted last week, suggests that 50% now believe Britain was wrong to leave the European Union https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit-poll-minority-believe-was-right-to-leave-the-eu-2020-9 By contrast, just 39% of people said that Britain was right to leave the EU.

 

 

Once uncertain voters are removed from the total, the poll suggests 56% think Brexit was a mistake compared to 44% who still think it was right.

The survey also found that just 28% of people think the government is handling Britain's exit from the EU well, down from 30 points earlier in September. That compares to a total of 61% who think the government is handling it badly, up by 5 points from the beginning of September.

 

Even many Leave voters are dissatisfied with the government's progress, with 39% saying negotiations have been handled badly.

It matters not one jot about "polls", can they be trusted, of course not, the only factual evidence we have is the 2016 EU referendum and we voted to leave, that is the fact, we may as well have another poll of 'should we have entered WW2 in 1939', it is a pointless exercise. The country is in limbo at the moment, we may know a little more next week, who knows, but the voters are a little worried about still being tied into the EU, we voted to leave the EU and not be ruled by the EU. I'm sure if we walk away from this charade called negotiations the country will be much happier.

[OneMoreFarang]

4 hours ago, Surelynot said:

So the lying, cheating, third rate journalist now finds himself between a rock and a hard place.

 

Having promised an oven ready deal, sunny uplands and whatever other lies he dreamt up to get himself into No 10 it is decision time.....does he cave in to the EU and suffer the wrath of the swivel eyed loons in the ERG or tough it out, go no deal and damage the UK economy to an even greater extent than it will be with a deal.

 

He is doomed either way.....and good riddance.

And everybody knew he was and is a serial liar. But they still voted for him. And now somehow they pretend they though he told them the truth and they pretend they are somehow surprised that they still didn't see the unicorns. Amazing.

[vogie]

19 minutes ago, puck2 said:

 

Easy to answer: because the majority of the ENGLISH people elected a plonker as PM !  Even a liar and a deal breaker!

Feel better now after that little tantrum? ????????????

[2530Ubon]

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

It matters not one jot about "polls", can they be trusted, of course not, the only factual evidence we have is the 2016 EU referendum and we voted to leave, that is the fact, we may as well have another poll of 'should we have entered WW2 in 1939', it is a pointless exercise. The country is in limbo at the moment, we may know a little more next week, who knows, but the voters are a little worried about still being tied into the EU, we voted to leave the EU and not be ruled by the EU. I'm sure if we walk away from this charade called negotiations the country will be much happier.

Ah, I see! So when confronted with indisputable evidence, your answer is to completely dismiss it and throw it in the garbage. Interesting. One cannot have a reasonable, intelligent, facts based discussion when people behave like this. 

 

I think I'll end it here. I don't wish to waste my time any further. Good day to you sir.

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by 2530Ubon

[robblok]

34 minutes ago, vogie said:

I just cannot understand why you are such an advocate for Scottish Nationalism?

Why not, it breaks up the UK. Isolates them even more. I just want the Brexiteers see what their decision costs them.  Maybe one day then they will open their eyes and finally admit they did get their leave but it cost them dearly. 

 

Also if the Scots do turn to the EU I wonder how that will go for fishing rights. Its time for Brexiteers to admit they had a pyrrhic victory. That will only happen once all effects come clear. So the more bad news for the UK the better. 

 

I get so tired of them denying all bad news, its kinda hard to deny bad news if Scotland gets independent. Also if you look at how Scotland was treated in the past and how the Irish were treated then they really do deserve their freedom. 

 

Not sure why you as a nationalists are so against other nationalists getting their "freedom" 

[Rookiescot]

Its simple.

Either the UK accepts the EU's conditions for access to their market or it does not. I cannot understand why these negotiations are so protracted. 

Johnson. Either swallow your pride and accept them or walk away. I know he is stuffed in any case. 

Its a rock and a hard place. But its one he helped create with his lies about what Brexit actually means so hell mend him.

He has a choice. Accept the conditions and be labeled a traitor and a sellout by the hardened Brexiteer fanatics or do the right thing by the country and try and minimise the damage caused by the stupidity on stilts that is Brexit.

Were it not for the fact the UK is going to be immensely hurt by Brexit the entire farce would be hilarious.  

[luckyluke]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

I'm sure if we walk away from this charade called negotiations the country will be much happier.

Maybe, but how will we know?

I assume there won't be a referendum?

And polls can't be count on ( It matters not one jot about "polls", can they be trusted, of course not ).

 

 

 

 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

Ah, I see! So when confronted with indisputable evidence, your answer is to completely dismiss it and throw it in the garbage. Interesting. One cannot have a reasonable, intelligent, facts based discussion when people behave like this. 

 

I think I'll end it here. I don't wish to waste my time any further. Good day to you sir.

 

Undisputable evidence, a poll, whom is wasting whose time.????????????????????

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

Why not, it breaks up the UK. Isolates them even more. I just want the Brexiteers see what their decision costs them.  Maybe one day then they will open their eyes and finally admit they did get their leave but it cost them dearly. 

 

Also if the Scots do turn to the EU I wonder how that will go for fishing rights. Its time for Brexiteers to admit they had a pyrrhic victory. That will only happen once all effects come clear. So the more bad news for the UK the better. 

 

I get so tired of them denying all bad news, its kinda hard to deny bad news if Scotland gets independent. Also if you look at how Scotland was treated in the past and how the Irish were treated then they really do deserve their freedom. 

 

Not sure why you as a nationalists are so against other nationalists getting their "freedom" 

You are accusing me of being a nationalist, you have baited on every one of your posts today Rob, maybe time to give it a rest?

[transam]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

I agree stay strong Boris, make sure there is no deal. Then all of us can watch the UK GDP tumble even more. Covid  + Brexit + Scottish leave = little Britain with no economic prospects. 

 

Show the rest of the world that nationalism leads to ruin. 

You don't like British folk it seems, did you get caught smoking a spliff there..?......????

[transam]

13 minutes ago, robblok said:

Why not, it breaks up the UK. Isolates them even more. I just want the Brexiteers see what their decision costs them.  Maybe one day then they will open their eyes and finally admit they did get their leave but it cost them dearly. 

 

Also if the Scots do turn to the EU I wonder how that will go for fishing rights. Its time for Brexiteers to admit they had a pyrrhic victory. That will only happen once all effects come clear. So the more bad news for the UK the better. 

 

I get so tired of them denying all bad news, its kinda hard to deny bad news if Scotland gets independent. Also if you look at how Scotland was treated in the past and how the Irish were treated then they really do deserve their freedom. 

 

Not sure why you as a nationalists are so against other nationalists getting their "freedom" 

You just do not like the word "Empire" and having to communicate in English, go on,  admit it......????

[Rookiescot]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

You just do not like the word "Empire" and having to communicate in English, go on,  admit it......????

 

What? We gonna phone Australia, New Zealand, Canada and all the others and tell them we are getting the band back together? 

????

[vogie]

23 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Maybe, but how will we know?

I assume there won't be a referendum?

And polls can't be count on ( It matters not one jot about "polls", can they be trusted, of course not ).

 

 

 

 

A good indication of knowing how the country feels is by elections, if the country votes in the Tories again we know that they are happy and if they vote Labour in they need certifying.HTH

[JonnyF]

28 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Its simple.

Either the UK accepts the EU's conditions for access to their market or it does not. I cannot understand why these negotiations are so protracted. 

Johnson. Either swallow your pride and accept them or walk away. I know he is stuffed in any case. 

Its a rock and a hard place. But its one he helped create with his lies about what Brexit actually means so hell mend him.

He has a choice. Accept the conditions and be labeled a traitor and a sellout by the hardened Brexiteer fanatics or do the right thing by the country and try and minimise the damage caused by the stupidity on stilts that is Brexit.

Were it not for the fact the UK is going to be immensely hurt by Brexit the entire farce would be hilarious.  

So bitter ????.

 

Good luck getting the Independence you crave as one of the bottom 3 countries in the EU ????. The mighty Skootlund battling Greece for handouts from the EU like two bums fighting for whisky in the underpass lol.