UK and EU reach Brexit trade deal

[Phulublub]

1 hour ago, Tofer said:

 

I'm struggling to find that nugget, so would appreciate a link, especially if they paid over any money.

 

I would also like to know if they refunded that money when they abandoned their attempt to produce it?

Literally seconds of searching throws up several sources.

 

https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/covid-vaccine-uk/

 

https://www.gsk.com/en-gb/media/press-releases/sanofi-and-gsk-agree-with-the-uk-government-to-supply-up-to-60-million-doses-of-covid-19-vaccine/

 

https://www.euronews.com/2020/07/29/coronavirus-vaccine-uk-signs-new-deal-for-60-million-doses-of-potential-covid-19-solution

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8571173/UK-Government-signs-deal-drugs-giant-GSK-60-million-doses-potential-coronavirus-vaccine.html

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

But not done and result unknown at the time ......

Funny to see the full media offensive on Express pages about N.Sturgeon ...looks like a panic effort from England....????

 

 

If the result of the EU Referendum held in 2016 was known in 2014 I sure someone would have complained

[bannork]

3 hours ago, AmySeeker said:

 

Bizarrely despite her nationalistic rhetoric she wants to remain in the EU

Because she knows the EU is good for France, as it is for the UK.

[Hi from France]

7 hours ago, Victornoir said:

It is true that the EU has failed miserably in its management of covid vaccines.

Double shame for us French, the homeland the vaccine process discoverer, Louis Pasteur, and today unable to produce one with ARN messager technology.

Recognize your mistakes to remedy it, let's hope that our elites will learn the lessons, even if we may doubt it.

 

Most people on this forum cannot understand French, or even use google translate, but I recommend you listen to what our researchers say about it 

 

https://www.franceculture.fr/emissions/le-temps-du-debat/le-temps-du-debat-emission-du-lundi-28-decembre-2020

 

@Victornoir

Edited January 29, 2021 by Hi from France

[Hi from France]

do not forget to include the link to the source under the image

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, Phulublub said:

No.  There were actually two options on the ballot paper.

 

There was only one option for those who wished to leave.  But the REASONS for choosing that one option are many and varied.  Unless you believe the nonsense that "we all voted for the same thing" - as amply demonstrated by the two today, one voting to stay out of a hypothetical US of G and another voting to stay out of Schengen.  Same vote, different reasons for doing so.

 

You all voted the same way, but for different reasons.

 

PH

 

The single reason that automatically addresses all other concerns, is sovereignty. Sovereignty means being governed by a British government elected by British people, at least every 5 years, which is loaned the power from the people to pass laws, set taxes, provide security and all decide other policies.

 

The EU does not represent the status quo that so many think it does and this is evident by the historical evolution and mutation of it. The only way that the EU can fully achieve its goals is by the creation of a single European state, which, for those of us who wish to preserve the existence of our own nation, is unacceptable. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by nauseus

[Rimmer]

Some unattributed also off topic posts have been removed.

[Histavia]

8 hours ago, Victornoir said:

It is true that the EU has failed miserably in its management of covid vaccines.

except that the vaccine was invented and produced in the EU.

[oldhippy]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Europe’s Vaccination Debacle

With under-supplied vaccination facilities and overcrowded COVID-19 wards, the European Union is reaping what it sowed last summer when it decided to put the European Commission in charge of preordering vaccines. There was neither a legal basis nor any economic justification for central planning.

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/europe-vaccine-scarcity-central-planning-by-hans-werner-sinn-2021-01

The UK has no overcrowded covid wards???? Woow, good news at last.

So you don't really need our EU-Belgian Pfizer vaccine? More good news!

[7by7]

23 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

Find me one example to start me off.

 

Take your pick!

[vinny41]

8 minutes ago, Histavia said:

except that the vaccine was invented and produced in the EU.

If your referring to the Pfizer–BioNTech that was developed in Germany and the USA

for other vaccines they have been developed in many countries outside the EU

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccine#:~:text=On 2 December 2020%2C the,of any COVID‑19 vaccine.

[tebee]

4 hours ago, AmySeeker said:

 

Bizarrely despite her nationalistic rhetoric she wants to remain in the EU

She's seen how well Brexit is going and doesn't want to be connected to any French attempt to do the same.

 

Before Brexit she was an advocate for Frexit.

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, tebee said:

She's seen how well Brexit is going and doesn't want to be connected to any French attempt to do the same.

 

Before Brexit she was an advocate for Frexit.

You are being slightly economical with the truth there tebee. She is hoping to destroy the EU from the inside. This is what Le Pen said.

 

"Europe is a 'prison'

Instead, the Rassemlement National wants to recreate the EU as an "alliance of nations." Le Pen says that she believes far-right politicians within the EU now have the power to "radically modify" Europe.

"Maybe Great Britain can rejoin us once we've built something where each nation conserves their freedom," she said.

She still considers Europe to be a "prison" even if a member can leave it."

"[Brexit] still took three years ... there was a real contempt for the people on the part of leaders of the European Union who barely hid wanting to make the divorce as difficult as possible," she said

https://www.euronews.com/2020/02/06/marine-le-pen-eu-has-more-to-lose-on-brexit-but-i-don-t-want-frexit

Edited January 29, 2021 by vogie

[Hi from France]

Quote

David Frost, who negotiated the Brexit deal on behalf of Boris Johnson, will no longer be given the plum role of national security adviser, government sources have confirmed.

 

Lord Frost’s appointment sparked a backlash from Conservatives including the former prime minister Theresa May because of his lack of relevant expertise.

Good thing, the guy's main quality was to be a Brexiteer and to like to humiliate the EU, that made him the idol of Brexiteers, but as a negociator, he was a rookie. 

 

.. And even more incompetent on national security. 

 

Again his best asset was to be a Brexiteer, while other competent FO high level diplomats were not.. 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/29/brexit-negotiator-david-frost-pulled-away-from-national-security-role

 

Quote

His pugnacious style and flat rejection of anything more than a bare-bones Canada-style trade deal is regarded as crucial in shaping the eventual agreement.

The prime minister gave him a peerage last year.

 

As a result, the trade deal we are discussing here now is very bad for the UK, but I'm still not sure our Brexiteers are aware. 

 

If they could the UK government would renegue, like they did on the Withdrawal Agreement. 

 

. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Hi from France

[7by7]

23 hours ago, Tofer said:

On 1/28/2021 at 10:38 AM, 7by7 said:

You call this "EU pettiness."

 

What else would you call it;

 

• Rejection of shipping documents because of punctuation errors.

 

• Confiscation of truckers sandwiches.

 

• Threats to disrupt energy supplies, if the EU don't get their way with fishing quotas in 2016.

 

• Threats to block vaccines exports, if the EU aren't allowed to queue jump the supply agreements.

 

Etc, etc....

 

Maybe not petty, just downright vindictive, and fearful of the UK making a success and threatening the future of their precious club.

 I am not going to going through your entire list to see which are real and which made up.

 

I will simply repeat two points which should be obvious to all.

1. Having left the EU we cannot expect to still reap all the benefits of membership!
2. As we are no longer a member we must accept that, subject to any and all agreements we have made or will make with them, we will be treated exactly the same as all other non members.

These two simple points still seem beyond the understanding of the whinging Brexiteers who still want all the benefits of membership without any of the responsibilities. 

 

23 hours ago, Tofer said:

On 1/28/2021 at 10:38 AM, 7by7 said:

"Remainer bitterness?" You bet; bitterness that the lies of the leave campaigners and the gullibility of so many Brexiteers who fell for those lies has damaged my country for at least a generation.

 

Wow, that's one powerful set of crystal balls you've got there, a whole generation of forecasting.... Who'd believe it... ????

 

Although, I would buy a set from the UK, they are far less pessimistic and much more realistic than the ones you got from the EU....

 A prediction based upon the events of the last 5 years and the opinion of analysts in the UK who know far more about this than either you or I.

 

I have asked Brexiteers on many occasion for one single positive result of Brexit. Will you be the first to answer? By providing a "far less pessimistic and much more realistic" UK prediction, if you can find one.

 

23 hours ago, Tofer said:

We no longer have to suffer their incompetent and bloated bureaucracy either, or being manacled to their protectionist rules, laws and regulations

Yet you, and others, are now whinging because as we have now left they will no longer allow us to be protected by and benefit from those very same rules, laws and regulations!

 

BTW, all bureaucracies are, by their very nature, bloated.  No Remainer that I am aware of has ever said that the EU is perfect. However, most Remainers believed that, despite it's faults, we were better off being a EU member than not. 

 

Considering the multitudinous posts here, and on other forums, from Brexiteers trying to convince themselves that they made the right decision in 2016, one can only conclude that as the Brexit reality bites more and more of them are realising that truth, too.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by 7by7
typos

[david555]

19 minutes ago, tebee said:

She's seen how well Brexit is going and doesn't want to be connected to any French attempt to do the same.

 

Before Brexit she was an advocate for Frexit.

We should thank the brexit for that ... unification got stronger ...???? except a few Eurosceptic mep's...who like stand in the light's for a moment ....

[david555]

44 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

The single reason that automatically addresses all other concerns, is sovereignty. Sovereignty means being governed by a British government elected by British people, at least every 5 years, which is loaned the power from the people to pass laws, set taxes, provide security and all decide other policies.

 

The EU does not represent the status quo that so many think it does and this is evident by the historical evolution and mutation of it. The only way that the EU can fully achieve its goals is by the creation of a single European state, which, for those of us who wish to preserve the existence of our own nation, is unacceptable. 

The only way that the EU can fully achieve its goals is by the creation of a single European state, which, for those of us who wish to preserve the existence of our own nation, is unacceptable. 

 

Sososo....so that is scary you all brexiteers so much ....hence the doomsday brainwashing efforts ...????????????

[Kwasaki]

6 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Good thing, the guy's main quality was to be a Brexiteer and to like to humiliate the EU, that made him the idol of Brexiteers, but as a negociator, he was a rookie. 

 

.. And even more incompetent on national security. 

 

Again his best asset was to be a Brexiteer, while other competent FO high level diplomats were not.. 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/29/brexit-negotiator-david-frost-pulled-away-from-national-security-role

 

 

As a result, the trade deal we are discussing here now is very bad for the UK, but I'm still not sure our Brexiteers are aware. 

 

If they could the UK government would renegue, like they did on the Withdrawal Agreement. 

 

. 

Whow !! 134 pages and still at it, you miss Brexit don't you. ????

[Hi from France]

Just now, david555 said:

We should thank the brexit for that ... unification got stronger ...???? except a few Eurosceptic mep's...who like stand in the light's for a moment ....

In many ways, Brexit has been major advantage for a greater unification of Europe. 

 

The Brits can no longer be a blocking factor from inside

 

.. and the fact we have "an arch-rival" and more and more, sadly "a common enemy" at our doorstep is very stimulating 

[candide]

51 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Sovereignty means being governed by a British government elected by British people, at least every 5 years, which is loaned the power from the people to pass laws, set taxes, provide security and all decide other policies.

It's interesting to note that the only two policies you highlight (tax policy and security policy) are policies which are largely outside the scope of the EU.

Edited January 29, 2021 by candide

[Hi from France]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

Whow !! 134 pages and still at it, you miss Brexit don't you. ????

No I'm pretty happy with Brexit as most Frenchmen, btw. 

 

Still for me, Brexit is a second-best solution: I would prefer by far another government in the UK, not these national-populist hostile idiots.

 

With another government (even like Tatcher's!), we could work. With this one, you always think it cannot get any worse, but it does each time. 

 

. 

 

 

[7by7]

15 hours ago, Loiner said:

No whinging here, unlike the ongoing Remainer moaning, just appalled at the EU pettiness. 

Contrary to pompous opinion and bitterness, UK is not significantly damaged and will go on to prosper.  

 

We've left the EU; that means we can't benefit from membership anymore!

 

What about that is it that you cannot understand?

 

If you truly believe that the UK "is not significantly damaged and will go on to prosper," why all the whinging about "EU pettiness" because they are now treating us like any other non member and not automatically letting us benefit from their rules and regulations?

 

 

[candide]

34 minutes ago, tebee said:

She's seen how well Brexit is going and doesn't want to be connected to any French attempt to do the same.

 

Before Brexit she was an advocate for Frexit.

Right! She quickly changed her tone after the Brexit referendum, when people were starting to realise what a mess it was going to be.

[7by7]

9 hours ago, transam said:

Nobody told me any lies about leaving the EU, all I wanted was for us to leave the future U.S. of G., that has been done.

No lies involved, so pleeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaase stop your daft talk about what I wanted and lies

 

Go back and look at the Vote.Leave and other leave campaign material. 

 

I listed 10 of their lies earlier in this topic; as well.

 

Your post above shows that you fell for them; hook line and sinker.

 

9 hours ago, transam said:

Get behind your country instead of behind others,

Just because my, a UK resident, view of what is best for my country is different from yours, a Thai resident, does not mean I am not behind my country. That you repeatedly have to drag up such ridiculous accusations only proves your lack of the realities of Brexit for the average Brit.

 

Maybe you should move back to the country you profess to be behind and find out for yourself.

 

9 hours ago, transam said:

stay safe on our island fortress..... 

 

 More lack of knowledge about life in the UK from the ex pat.

 

ation	Cases	Recovered	Deaths
United States	25.8M 25,800,000 +165K	-	433K 433,000 +3,862
India	10.7M 10,700,000 +18,855	10.4M 10,400,000 +20,746	154K 154,000 +163
Brazil	9.06M 9,060,000 +61,811	7.98M 7,980,000 +15,337	222K 222,000 +1,386
Russia	3.75M 3,750,000 +18,856	3.19M 3,190,000 +26,455	70,533 70,533 +562
United Kingdom	3.74M 3,740,000 +28,680	-	103K 103,000 +1,239

'+' shows new cases reported yesterday · Updated less than 2 hours ago·Sources: Wikipedia and 

others

 

 

 

 

 

·

[kingdong]

9 hours ago, Phulublub said:

You may be fine doubling your fish intake (and changing the type of fish you eat).  I very much doubt the entire UK population would be as keen.  Or that that is what those who voted to leave intended.

 

I keep saying "you knew what you voted for" against all the posts made by Brexiteers that show that, actually, they voted for many and varied different reasons.  Some contradictory,  and some consequences not even considered or thought about...but sadly not even now acknowldged.

 

PH

Kingdong (your fellow Brexit traveller) has stated twice now that he (and therefore all Brexiteers as you all voted for the same thing) is entirely happy to double his fish intake, and to start eating types of fish previously exported.  So enjoy changing your eating habits..

 

I am not in the EU.

 

PH

Why do you keep posting your theories about why you think people voted in an election that happened three and a half years ago?its getting to the point of trolling now,turn it in.

[Phulublub]

23 hours ago, Tofer said:

 

Which the EU refuse to override and release the details - too much potential egg on face I suspect, as it wouldn't bode well for the EU's campaign to jump the queue, and cover up it's own organisational failings.

Care to retract your slur?

 

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_302

[7by7]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

The single reason that automatically addresses all other concerns, is sovereignty. Sovereignty means being governed by a British government elected by British people, at least every 5 years, which is loaned the power from the people to pass laws, set taxes, provide security and all decide other policies.

 The three areas you have mentioned are all under the purview of the governments of individual member states; not the EU.

 

As are the vast majority of other areas of government and legislation.

 

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

The EU does not represent the status quo that so many think it does and this is evident by the historical evolution and mutation of it.

Evolution and mutation which has only happened with the unanimous approval of the members.

 

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

The only way that the EU can fully achieve its goals is by the creation of a single European state, which, for those of us who wish to preserve the existence of our own nation, is unacceptable. 

 Go on, what are those goals which will lead to a European super state?

 

Real ones, this time; not your usual fantasies.

[bkkcanuck8]

53 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

I have asked Brexiteers on many occasion for one single positive result of Brexit. Will you be the first to answer? By providing a "far less pessimistic and much more realistic" UK prediction, if you can find one.

There was already a benefit of Brexit proffered by some on here... a car factory did not lose jobs on exit (actually there have been 150 jobs lost - but the reasons cannot be necessarily linked to Brexit itself).   When your strongest single result is you did not lose jobs... you know everything is going very well ????

[Phulublub]

19 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Why do you keep posting your theories about why you think people voted in an election that happened three and a half years ago?its getting to the point of trolling now,turn it in.

They are not theories.  I am quoting you and your ilk! 

 

Some may, eventually, realsie that they did not vote for the same thing or things as every other Brexiteer.  Xome may even relaise that voting to leave was a monumental mistake.  Not you, obviously, but some others might.

 

Meanwhile I will post what and when I wish.

 

PH

[bkkcanuck8]

6 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 The three areas you have mentioned are all under the purview of the governments of individual member states; not the EU.

 

As are the vast majority of other areas of government and legislation.

 

Evolution and mutation which has only happened with the unanimous approval of the members.

 

 Go on, what are those goals which will lead to a European super state?

 

Real ones, this time; not your usual fantasies.

 

Again, I would term the EU more of a Confederation - with a common regulatory and financial framework for the free flow of trade (services [including labour] and goods).  Ideally there would be more reforms to the governance, but then the UK was wary about that because it in itself would legitimize and may pave the way for a much deeper union. 

 

A Confederation is probably a better fit for the EU for the foreseeable future since each state has it's own language and customs etc (it's own distinct tribe), and it would take a long time with the free movement (and potentially the same media) to reduce the tribal boundaries where the EU becomes the identity enough for a super-state.