UK and EU reach Brexit trade deal

[7by7]

38 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

In 2019, the UK fishing industry exported more than 333,000 tonnes of fish to the EU. That accounts for nearly half of the total catch of the UK fishing fleet and roughly three quarters of total fish exports from the UK.

https://www.bbc.com/news/46401558

 

The total catch in that article is the total UK fleet catch, not just the UK catch in the UK EEZ. Most fish caught by UK boats and consumed in the UK is caught outside the UK EEZ.

 

UK’s distant waters fishing fleet Some key facts about northern Atlantic fishing

Quote

The UK imports most of the fish it eats and exports most of what it catches;

Cod and haddock are UK consumers' favourite fish;

These fish are found in large quantities in the ‘Northern External Waters’, a term used by the European Union to describe the waters to the north of  EU waters;

Quote

The majority of fish eaten in the UK is imported. Some 83% of the cod consumed in the UK comes from abroad, alongside 58% of its haddock. The UK catch is 5% cod and 7% haddock, while the UK fleet catches a lot of herring, 93% of which is exported, mostly to Norway and the Netherlands.

Overall, the UK imports 70% of the fish it eats and exports 80% of what it catches. 

(Source)

 

For more detailed analysis, see the Marine Management Organisation's UK Sea Fisheries Statistics 2019. This also gives figures for fish caught by UK vessels and landed directly in EU countries.

[7by7]

56 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

<snip>

I have noticed that pro-eu supporters don't like to back up their claims with a verifiable source. as you state details details details one must assume no verifiable source means no details

 

48 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

 I take it you are referring to the Protection Racket that the EU operates

 So where is your verifiable source to back up this claim?

[vinny41]

17 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

 So where is your verifiable source to back up this claim?

Irish beef may potentially have to compete directly with South American beef' - analyst

However, in a no deal scenario, countries like Brazil and Argentina will have equal access into the UK beef market. 

"Until now they were priced out by the EU external tariff policy, making their beef uncompetitive. 

"However, South American countries have a significantly lower cost of production than the UK and Ireland. 

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/irish-beef-may-potentially-have-to-compete-directly-with-south-american-beef-analyst-37946288.html

 

If South Americian beef has been priced out by the EU external tariff policy, making their beef uncompetitive

that is a Protection racket to artificially keep EU internal market products  prices high

[Kwasaki]

14 hours ago, Hi from France said:

The EU will keep 75% and for what? 

Nowt. ????

[Thingamabob]

9 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Irish beef may potentially have to compete directly with South American beef' - analyst

However, in a no deal scenario, countries like Brazil and Argentina will have equal access into the UK beef market. 

"Until now they were priced out by the EU external tariff policy, making their beef uncompetitive. 

"However, South American countries have a significantly lower cost of production than the UK and Ireland. 

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/irish-beef-may-potentially-have-to-compete-directly-with-south-american-beef-analyst-37946288.html

 

If South Americian beef has been priced out by the EU external tariff policy, making their beef uncompetitive

that is a Protection racket to artificially keep EU internal market products  prices high

The killing and eating of animals by humans is disgusting.

[Chomper Higgot]

15 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Irish beef may potentially have to compete directly with South American beef' - analyst

However, in a no deal scenario, countries like Brazil and Argentina will have equal access into the UK beef market. 

"Until now they were priced out by the EU external tariff policy, making their beef uncompetitive. 

"However, South American countries have a significantly lower cost of production than the UK and Ireland. 

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/irish-beef-may-potentially-have-to-compete-directly-with-south-american-beef-analyst-37946288.html

 

If South Americian beef has been priced out by the EU external tariff policy, making their beef uncompetitive

that is a Protection racket to artificially keep EU internal market products  prices high

I’m not sure if you’ve figured it out yet but tariff free S.American beef will decimate UK beef farming.

 

 

Edited December 25, 2020 by Chomper Higgot

[vinny41]

18 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m not sure if you’ve figured it out yet but tariff free S.American beef will decimate UK beef farming.

 

 

If you ask @luckyluke and his man on the street  do you want to pay more for a product built into the price protection for the producer  or do you want to pay for a product based on what is costs excluding any price protection

[CharlieH]

Reported troll comment and response removed.

[luckyluke]

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

If you ask @luckyluke and his man on the street  do you want to pay more for a product built into the price protection for the producer  or do you want to pay for a product based on what is costs excluding any price protection

Personally it can vary for me, I like the Belgian Herve cheese,, but certainly the Stilton.

When buying I don't care if it is protected or not, I never bought because of the " nationality" of the product, I buy the product for what it means to me.

I will never buy something which I don't like, even if it is Belgian.

[Chomper Higgot]

25 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

If you ask @luckyluke and his man on the street  do you want to pay more for a product built into the price protection for the producer  or do you want to pay for a product based on what is costs excluding any price protection

There are a number of problems with your simplistic argument.

 

The fist is, what is the actual cost of production?

S.American beef produced at the cost of destroying the Amazon Forrests both for grazing and cattle feed production is naturally cheaper than beef raised on UK farms.

 

The second is food security, wiping out UK farming isn’t such a bright idea given the outcome of the UK then being dependent on imported food (a strange kind of sovereignty).

 

There are other arguments around the impact of job losses in rural communities and the whole question of who actually benefits from the price cut, the consumer or the food industry?

 

But don’t bother your head with all that, stick with simplistic arguments that don’t challenge your world view.

[vinny41]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There are a number of problems with your simplistic argument.

 

The fist is, what is the actual cost of production?

S.American beef produced at the cost of destroying the Amazon Forrests both for grazing and cattle feed production is naturally cheaper than beef raised on UK farms.

 

The second is food security, wiping out UK farming isn’t such a bright idea given the outcome of the UK then being dependent on imported food (a strange kind of sovereignty).

 

There are other arguments around the impact of job losses in rural communities and the whole question of who actually benefits from the price cut, the consumer or the food industry?

 

But don’t bother your head with all that, stick with simplistic arguments that don’t challenge your world view.

The EU doesn't seem bother about your concerns when it comes to how does the EU opening  up new car markets without incurring tariffs charges

What is the new South American beef deal that will affect Ireland?

Mercosur deal has been accused for ‘selling out’ Irish farmers

 

 The South American bloc gets access to EU markets in eight years with its beef, poultry, sugar and ethanol. Brazilians expect tariffs on orange juice, instant coffee and fruits to be zeroed. 

The Irish Farmers’ Association was unequivocal in its condemnation of “a backroom deal with big business and kowtows to the likes of Mercedes and BMW in their drive to get cars into South America”.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/what-is-the-new-south-american-beef-deal-that-will-affect-ireland-1.3942932

 

[Rimmer]

An unattributed claim in the form of a meme has been removed

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

The EU doesn't seem bother about your concerns when it comes to how does the EU opening  up new car markets without incurring tariffs charges

What is the new South American beef deal that will affect Ireland?

Mercosur deal has been accused for ‘selling out’ Irish farmers

 

 The South American bloc gets access to EU markets in eight years with its beef, poultry, sugar and ethanol. Brazilians expect tariffs on orange juice, instant coffee and fruits to be zeroed. 

The Irish Farmers’ Association was unequivocal in its condemnation of “a backroom deal with big business and kowtows to the likes of Mercedes and BMW in their drive to get cars into South America”.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/what-is-the-new-south-american-beef-deal-that-will-affect-ireland-1.3942932

 

You do know what the word ‘Deal’ means don’t you.

 

Incidentally, you first argue the UK can have a  deal with S.American for beef (this being a bonus of Brexit).

 

You then produce evidence that the UK would have soon to have got access to tariff free S.American beef as a member of the EU., but you frame that as a bad thing.

 

Your arguments are all over the place.

[vinny41]

16 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You do know what the word ‘Deal’ means don’t you.

 

Incidentally, you first argue the UK can have a  deal with S.American for beef (this being a bonus of Brexit).

 

You then produce evidence that the UK would have soon to have got access to tariff free S.American beef as a member of the EU., but you frame that as a bad thing.

 

Your arguments are all over the place.

No I welcome a Uk deal with S.American for beef and any other  products they supply such as , poultry, sugar and ethanol. orange juice, instant coffee and fruits.

I was merely pointing out to you that your beloved EU doesn't share your concerns

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/what-is-the-new-south-american-beef-deal-that-will-affect-ireland-1.3942932

Edited December 25, 2020 by vinny41
forgot url

[Chomper Higgot]

16 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

No I welcome a Uk deal with S.American for beef and any other  products they supply such as , poultry, sugar and ethanol. orange juice, instant coffee and fruits.

I was merely pointing out to you that your beloved EU doesn't share your concerns

I see you’ve been at the Google again.

 

Let’s wait and see what the UK’s  post Brexit trade deals do to British farming.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2020 by Chomper Higgot

[Hi from France]

3 hours ago, puipuitom said:

 

When you do not pay for your membership, you also will not get the advantages.

 

So, in my fields, food & fast moving consumer goods:

No CE ( = EU approval of electric devices, sports goods, toys), no RASFF ( means: all "sub-standard" foods quickly can be exported to the UK, as no early warning system anymore, back to the 70's ), NO EFSA, no mutual recognition of food safety inspections (FSA, BRC)

what I understood is that British labs cannot certify goods sold in the EU anymore : British industries will have to ask a European Lab for the testing and certification of their products.

 

The chemicals/pharma industries, where there are many molecules to certify now have to jump through hoops. So multinationals are bound to change the location of their research centers?

[Hi from France]

3 hours ago, evadgib said:

For any that are wondering...

Statement on Gibraltar future relationship

says nothing? Anyone can brief us on Gibraltar? I though Spain would block a deal if they didn't get their way.

 

Did Boris dodge the bullet on that one ?

[Hi from France]

3 hours ago, vinny41 said:

 I take it you are referring to the Protection Racket that the EU operates

Yes the EU protects its members, that's the point! Free trade were we gain, tariffs were we need to protect our industries.

 

so what?

 

Good luck for the UK: I think no one (above all not the USA) will be stupid enough to sign a services FTA without the UK giving away its farmers and NHS in return.

 

Goodbye EU Hello chlorinated chicken and expensive drugs + privatisation of the NHS to USA health companies.

 

 

 

@vinny41 you do understand that a FTA is a give and take? So if you want access to the USA Services Market you have to give something in exchange.

 

What is the UK going to give to the USA to compensate billions on Services, As I remember (please check) the UK already has a service trade surplus with the USA, why should they give you more?

 

 

.

Edited December 25, 2020 by Hi from France

[vinny41]

14 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

what I understood is that British labs cannot certify goods sold in the EU anymore : British industries will have to ask a European Lab for the testing and certification of their products.

 

The chemicals/pharma industries, where there are many molecules to certify now have to jump through hoops. So multinationals are bound to change the location of their research centers?

If your are unable or unwilling to  provide a link to support your post , your claim should be considered suspect or misleading

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Yes the EU protects its members, that's the point! Free trade were we gain, tariffs were we need to protect our industries.

 

so what?

 

Good luck for the UK: I think no one (above all not the USA) will be stupid enough to sign a services FTA without the UK sacrificing its farmers and NHS in return.

You mean like the EU - Mercosur FTA agreement EU seems to have no issues  sacrificing its farmers in return for new car markets

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/what-is-the-new-south-american-beef-deal-that-will-affect-ireland-1.3942932

[Hi from France]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

If your are unable or unwilling to  provide a link to support your post , your claim should be considered suspect or misleading

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-to-comply-with-reach-chemical-regulations

 

note that I already shared on this forum the video and script of hearings of the UK parliamentary commission about REACH they were pretty clear

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Yes the EU protects its members, that's the point! Free trade were we gain, tariffs were we need to protect our industries.

 

so what?

 

Good luck for the UK: I think no one (above all not the USA) will be stupid enough to sign a services FTA without the UK sacrificing its farmers and NHS in return.

A small, but I feel important, distinction.

 

The NHS is a Trust, the NHS itself will not be sold, but the US will demand access for US health and pharmaceutical industries to the NHS.

 

Specifically neutering of dissolution of NICE.

Removal of price controls on medicines.

Removal or restriction of liability against pharmaceutical companies.

The permitting of direct to patient marketing of pharmaceutical.

Access to run ‘for profit’ medical services, including ownership of hospitals and facilities.

Asset stripping NHS real estate.

The replacement of free at the point of need health care with ‘insurance based health care’.

 

 

The NHS will remain a Trust owned and a liability of the UK government/tax payer, but costs will rise and the US pharmaceutical and healthcare services will extract healthcare funding as their profit.

 

Look to US healthcare to see how this operates.

 

Enjoy.

 

 

[vinny41]

Selling goods in the EU

The UKCA marking will not be recognised on the EU market. Products currently requiring a CE marking will still need a CE marking for sale in the EU from 1 January 2021. Find out how to use the CE marking.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-ukca-mark-from-1-january-2021

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

Selling goods in the EU

The UKCA marking will not be recognised on the EU market. Products currently requiring a CE marking will still need a CE marking for sale in the EU from 1 January 2021. Find out how to use the CE marking.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-ukca-mark-from-1-january-2021

So there you have it, something additional that UK businesses need to learn and comply with.

 

Are you trying to help your arguments or what?

[vinny41]

25 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

what I understood is that British labs cannot certify goods sold in the EU anymore : British industries will have to ask a European Lab for the testing and certification of their products.

 

The chemicals/pharma industries, where there are many molecules to certify now have to jump through hoops. So multinationals are bound to change the location of their research centers?

 

4 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-to-comply-with-reach-chemical-regulations

 

note that I already shared on this forum the video and script of hearings of the UK parliamentary commission about REACH they were pretty clear

The reach link doesn't cover your post "what I understood is that British labs cannot certify goods sold in the EU anymore : British industries will have to ask a European Lab for the testing and certification of their products"

[Hi from France]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

You mean like the EU - Mercosur FTA agreement EU seems to have no issues  sacrificing its farmers in return for new car markets

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/what-is-the-new-south-american-beef-deal-that-will-affect-ireland-1.3942932

you need to give us more details

 

As I remember there were Brazilian beef import mainly.

Quote

Brazil was the world's largest exporter of beef, providing close to 20 percent of total global beef exports, outpacing India, the second-largest exporter

 

 

 

Now one of the main beef producers in the EU was ....the UK. 

Quote

The UK exported 84,789 tonnes of fresh and frozen beef in 2019. Exports are mainly to the EU (90%)

so do you suggest importing beef from Brazil is less of a problem now the UK is not a member?

 

 

Does the "free-from-shackles" UK want to have a FTA with Brazil (or does it have one already)?

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So there you have it, something additional that UK businesses need to learn and comply with.

 

Are you trying to help your arguments or what?

If I see a post that is providing misleading or incorrect information I post the latest information provided by the UK Government

by  utilizing a little known tool on this forum called Google

[vinny41]

11 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

you need to give us more details

 

As I remember there were Brazilian beef import mainly.

 

 

 

Now one of the main beef producers in the EU was ....the UK. 

so do you suggest importing beef from Brazil is less of a problem now the UK is not a member?

 

 

Does the "free-from-shackles" UK want to have a FTA with Brazil (or does it have one already)?

No the UK doesn't have a FTA with Brazil at the moment but they have indicated they are seeking one similar to the EU FTA

Brazil to seek a Mercosur-UK trade deal similar of agreement with EU

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brazil-trade-britain-idUSKBN1ZU32X

Edited December 25, 2020 by vinny41
forgot url

[Hi from France]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

 

The reach link doesn't cover your post "what I understood is that British labs cannot certify goods sold in the EU anymore : British industries will have to ask a European Lab for the testing and certification of their products"

try this https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/547b6473-a15e-47f3-bafc-14b8a294c3f8

 

or this https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/14/european-commission-rejects-call-uk-testing-labs-certify-products/

 

there are also bigger issue with the database, 

https://committees.parliament.uk/event/2215/formal-meeting-oral-evidence-session/

 

Quote

We would like to see more opportunities. We are struggling to see them, as the vast majority of our members will want to keep manufacturing to EU REACH standards.

 

Chair: Thank you. Do you see any opportunities?

 

Tom Bowtell: The UK authorities have a more pragmatic and risk‑based approach to chemicals management than the EU. This may bring opportunities in the future, but, where it gives rise to trade or environmental concerns, we would not be in favour of that kind of divergence.

 

Silvia Segna: To Tom’s point, the risk of weakening the competitiveness of the UK chemical industry is the biggest threat as the transition comes to an end. As to the implications for chemical policy, any substance that is manufactured in the UK or imported would be subject to dual regulation to place it on both the UK and the EU market, considering our strong trading relationship with the EU. This could directly affect the future viability of products.

 

There may be opportunities for chemical policy, in improving chemical legislation and its processes, and making efficiencies, with more risk‑based evaluation of chemicals. We could see further support in the UK for the use of alternative methods to animal testing, while ensuring a high level of human health and environmental protection. However, overall, the opportunities tend to be outweighed by the challenges that businesses will face in responding to separate and parallel regimes going forward.

 

Dr Michael Warhurst: From CHEM Trust’s point of view, we know that EU REACH is the most advanced system in the world. It is not perfect and we are working at EU level to improve it. Ultimately, no real opportunities arise from the UK moving away from that system because, as has been mentioned, anything going to the EU will have to follow EU rules anyway. You will end up with the massive risk that the UK system has much less information and expertise in it.

 

The EU system has a huge database, built up over more than a decade, of information on chemicals. Even then, there is often not enough information there. The UK will start with an empty database and will try to fill it. Originally, it was going to try to fill it in two years. It is now delaying that following the Government’s partial deregulation of the system, so the information will not be of the same quality at all. The scale of the resources in the UK will not be the same, and we are worried that the UK system will end up being a bit hollow. Theoretically, there is a lot there, but in reality not so much is happening because there is not the capacity to do it

 

We know there are chemicals in everyday use in our homes that are accumulating in our bodies and contaminating wildlife, from polar bears to killer whales. In one recent piece of research, they have been found in the poo of chimpanzees. The problem is there with chemicals and we are not going to address it better by separating from that system.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

If I see a post that is providing misleading or incorrect information I post the latest information provided by the UK Government

by  utilizing a little known tool on this forum called Google

All well and good, but you post UK Government information that reveals additional requirements on British businesses.

 

Your reliance on google has already been noted.