Tahitian Queen closed down.

[BigStar]

54 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

Those bars are usually run with one purpose only, to maintain the lifestyle of their owners while they stay in Pattaya. It's basically a bank account. There is no long term plan, hence no accumulation of equity to save the business in hard times.

Gets better & better. Yep, only the bars are run for profit to maintain lifestyles for the owners. All other business are run by the independently wealthy just for sport, and their benevolent owners accumulated lots of equity in anticipation of the COVID to enjoy more sport. That's why, unlike TQ, they're all still open and have no plans to close.

 

Yep, poor planning is why TQ stayed open for decades of low seasons surfing the Perpetual Pattaya Death Spiral through years of NO TOURISTS! while all its competitors failed. 

 

1 hour ago, GrandPapillon said:

Charity donation only comes into play as a way to take away the guilt of running such a "dodgy" business for their owners and to give them an extra excuse to "maintain" the business.

TQ was quite serious and sincere in support for local charity. It took a lot of work, it was hardly necessary, and it helped a lot of kids.

 

Nobody felt any guilt about what you regard as a dodgy business. What a laughable idea.???? TQ was a blast to own and manage. Nor did the owners need any excuse for anything, more utter nonsense. Mere projection on your part, perhaps a touch of envy.

[GrandPapillon]

15 minutes ago, BigStar said:

That's why, unlike TQ, they're all still open and have no plans to close.

 

They are closed because they were ordered to close,

 

owners might have business fatigue and decide to quit, nothing wrong with that, deploying their existing equity into other ventures, again nothing wrong with that

 

but asking for donation to survive? and asking for 15K USD? that sounds like an exit plan or some key money to be paid, hardly a plan to have the business survive another decade

Edited January 24, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[Darksidedude]

1 hour ago, AndyFoxy said:

My first experience with the TQ was in Angeles City in the late 90s. Even bought the T-shirt. Later went to the Pattaya TQ. Nothing beats that time in the TQ in Angeles though. 

yes i had gone there but had nothing to do the pattaya TQ

[GrandPapillon]

21 minutes ago, crobe said:

And I wont comment on more than 100 other Atlanta restaurants and bars that have closed permanently.

 

The fact is according to their own press release the amount raised ($180,000) is enough to keep them open through the spring and hopefully to when trading picks up as the vaccination program rolls in and people are allowed out more.

Their statement

 

So if it is such a viable business, why could they not raise such an amount from an investor

 - possibly they did not want to give up equity or control

 - they did not want to open up the books as an investor would insist on.

 

These questions above are why a GoFundMe is appropriate for individuals or other charity cases, but not for commercial businesses

good points,

 

having external investors in Pattaya is always a risk, as the place is full of poseurs and fraudsters, who needs the headaches ????

 

so TQ has a good point of not wanting them, and the "good investors" would probably ask too many questions to make it worthwhile 

 

the amount asked is also quite small for a "successful" business, it really sounds like a "cash out" exit strategy with a gofundme page ????

Edited January 24, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[BigStar]

4 minutes ago, crobe said:

So if it is such a viable business, why could they not raise such an amount from an investor

Obvious from the context. They couldn't and specifically didn't claim that it's a viable business in the long term given the uncertainties of COVID, obviously. Typical investors would need more certainty.

 

So then investors may not be needed later on, but if so a clearer post-COVID financial picture will have emerged. 

 

Your problems lies in confusing Gofundme contributors with "investors" and insisting they be so. They aren't except in an informal sense.  

 

7 minutes ago, crobe said:

These questions above are why a GoFundMe is appropriate for individuals or other charity cases, but not for commercial businesses

Fortunately people may disagree with your important dictum on appropriateness and may choose to support any cause they feel worthy--as they have in the two cases in question--without firm guarantee of return. Kickstarter campaigns specifically for businesses are somewhat similar if more targeted. People like the product concept, want to support it, may get something out of it or may not.  

[thainet]

9 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Gets better & better. Yep, only the bars are run for profit to maintain lifestyles for the owners. All other business are run by the independently wealthy just for sport, and their benevolent owners accumulated lots of equity in anticipation of the COVID to enjoy more sport. That's why, unlike TQ, they're all still open and have no plans to close.

 

Yep, poor planning is why TQ stayed open for decades of low seasons surfing the Perpetual Pattaya Death Spiral through years of NO TOURISTS! while all its competitors failed. 

 

TQ was quite serious and sincere in support for local charity. It took a lot of work, it was hardly necessary, and it helped a lot of kids.

 

Nobody felt any guilt about what you regard as a dodgy business. What a laughable idea.???? TQ was a blast to own and manage. Nor did the owners need any excuse for anything, more utter nonsense. Mere projection on your part, perhaps a touch of envy.

All these posts getting a bit off track.

Bottom line is that it has closed, and whether its viable to reopen is anyone's guess. And one other important thing--do they want to reopen, or just call it a day.

The 'go fund me' page was started by W's daughter from the States. So was it on her own volition or sanctioned by the owner?

So the thing is, if you feel like contributing to the 'Fund' for nostalgia or whatever reason then go ahead, but if it doesn't reopen, then don't cry that you've lost a few hundred bucks.

As I actually visited TQ the 2nd week it was open (different owner), then personally I feel it's had a good shake, and time to move on.

[BigStar]

6 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

They are closed because they were ordered to close,

Whoops. Countless closed during the first lockdown and never reopened even when allowed to reopen. Same w/ restaurants, still not open now.????

 

9 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

that sounds like an exit plan or some key money to be paid, hardly a plan to have the business survive another decade

Another projection of what you'd like it to sound like. Doesn't sound like that to me or to anyone else w/ the slightest acquaintance w/ the owners or the institution. Nor did anyone mention anything about a plan to survive another decade. Ridiculous to suggest that in this market. So, just the usual straw man argument. 

[crobe]

2 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Obvious from the context. They couldn't and specifically didn't claim that it's a viable business in the long term given the uncertainties of COVID, obviously. Typical investors would need more certainty.

 

So then investors may not be needed later on, but if so a clearer post-COVID financial picture will have emerged. 

 

Your problems lies in confusing Gofundme contributors with "investors" and insisting they be so. They aren't except in an informal sense.  

 

Fortunately people may disagree with your important dictum on appropriateness and may choose to support any cause they feel worthy--as they have in the two cases in question--without firm guarantee of return. Kickstarter campaigns specifically for businesses are somewhat similar if more targeted. People like the product concept, want to support it, may get something out of it or may not.  

I am definitely not confusing investors with a GoFundMe, that is the whole point, there are clear cases where each is appropriate

The Atlanta case cited has more justification because at least the GoFundMe was specifically stated that it could fund the ongoing wages of the staff, but in the case of TQ I do not see any of those details on the gofundme page, only the reference to keeping the bar afloat.

[kevinsan]

First they closed the old Thermae.

Alas, Washington Square demolished.

Then they shuttered JP's International Bar.

And now they are gunning for Tahitian Queen.

 

The watering holes are shrinking. Let's keep this party rolling. Best boys club in Pattaya. No pretense no BS. These boys have been burning through cash all year with no end in sight.

[jacko45k]

20 hours ago, thainet said:

Yes this will definitely help Pattaya business overall, but sadly this type of local tourist will not help the TQ and places of that ilk.

Well I too will be heading South, but I am afraid I got too old for afternoon drinking sessions, and the TQ never appealed.... but will do my bit!

[Leaver]

On 1/24/2021 at 12:27 AM, Jingthing said:

Well not quite everything but depending on the type of business and location, it does appear that it would be fair to say that closings are at a level that are about as severe as imaginable. We've seen downturns here before, but this is ridiculous.

 

Tourists coming back in significant numbers? Yeah, 2022 sounds about right. 

 

Thailand's tourism industry will have to be rebuilt, and that will start sometime 2022, and it will take some years after that to get to where it was before covid.  

[Leaver]

On 1/24/2021 at 4:59 AM, jacko45k said:

As soon as the red zone restrictions are lifted. They will pour down Hwy 7 in large numbers every weekend. 

 

The back of the pick-up trucks will be full domestic tourists eager to spend money in Pattaya.  ???? 

[Leaver]

On 1/24/2021 at 9:39 AM, NanLaew said:

 

What if you try and stop telling us that the Patpong family is broke and therefore is desperate for Bob and Woody's paltry monthly rent?

 

Show me where I said they were broke.

[Leaver]

On 1/24/2021 at 10:51 AM, Catkiwi said:

It doesn't matter what I think, as if I said anything I would only be speculating

 

It's an internet forum.  Go ahead and and speculate.  ????

[Leaver]

On 1/24/2021 at 11:15 AM, crobe said:

Absolutely not true, especially in Thailand

More than any other country in the world the assessment of status and worth in Thailand is largely due to how much land a person owns, and although this cannot be taken with you it can be handed down.

There are very few financial penalties currently in Thailand for keeping land empty - the much mooted revised land tax is still in abeyance, which is why you see prime plots of land between beach road and second road still empty

You obviously know very little about Thailand culture, I think you need to increase your bandwidth

 

With no tenant, that means no revenue, and with no buyers, that means no return on the capital outlay.  However, as you say, the owner does have some expensive bragging rights.   ????

 

It's not about Thailand culture, it's about business.  You know, supply, demand, sales, and money.

 

For example, a Thai could own a 100 million baht property here.  If it's not tenanted, it's not earning.  If he paid 80 million baht for the property and can't sell it at 100, 90, or even 85 million baht, there's no return on the 80 million baht spent to buy it, therefore, it's running at a loss. 

 

The capital / property is depreciating, thus the 80 million baht could be doing better invested elsewhere, but it's tied up in a free falling property, thus, the Thai owner is along for the ride.  It's of little consequence if he is a billionaire, as we are discussing this one particular asset.  

 

It's not about the nationality of the owner, or the country being discussed, in this case Thailand.  It's simply about the asset, and the market. 

 

You obviously know very little about how market forces effect property.  I think you need to increase your reading.    

[champers]

22 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

The back of the pick-up trucks will be full domestic tourists eager to spend money in Pattaya.  ???? 

Hilton, Hard Rock, Amari, A-One and other high end hotels were doing fine at weekends, as were many mid-range hotels. Plenty of Beamers and Mercs in evidence.

[Susco]

Looks as if they were early on the game with UFC fights

 

[Susco]

3 minutes ago, champers said:

Hilton, Hard Rock, Amari, A-One and other high end hotels were doing fine at weekends, as were many mid-range hotels. Plenty of Beamers and Mercs in evidence.

 

You have access to the accounting of those hotels?

[Leaver]

On 1/24/2021 at 12:29 PM, thainet said:

@crobe He won't listen (see his many same themed posts)..I have just filtered out  his name on this thread.

 

Why do I have to listen and accept the opinions of others if I don't agree?  It's an internet forum.  There's thousands of members contributing, from different backgrounds and experiences. 

 

It would be boring to filter out all those that don't share the same opinion, but good luck with it.   

[Leaver]

On 1/24/2021 at 4:02 PM, scubascuba3 said:

If there was a quality daytime agogo such as Dollhouse, Electric Blue, even Windmill then I'd go to it, daytime would suit me better but unfortunately the daytime ones have been rubbish for a long time 

 

A decent day time gogo would have a niche market and would probably do well.  

[crobe]

19 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Is that the best you have got?  Try harder.  ????

If you knew anything about the Patpong family you would know that Varita has had many opportunities to redevelop the site to "maximise the  rental value" - she has been offered major hotel concessions on that site by the likes of Hyatt and Marriot - the original Royal Garden was offered to be where TQ is now. 

She has some affection for the type of business that is there at the moment and has resisted a lot of offers, not only there but the much more substantial offers for Patpong 1&2 - which are now surrounded by high-rise offices and only her sois retain the older shophouses.

It will be seen whether this changes as she hands this over to her kids.

The facts therefore bely your assertions - but then - who would take real estate advice from a monger living in a dingy bedsit off Soi Bukhao?

[Susco]

1 hour ago, crobe said:

She has some affection for the type of business that is there at the moment and has resisted a lot of offers, not only there but the much more substantial offers for Patpong 1&2 - which are now surrounded by high-rise offices and only her sois retain the older shophouses.

It will be seen whether this changes as she hands this over to her kids.

 

That is the main difference between Thai and European real estate owners.

 

Land always go up in price, anywhere in the world, because it gets scarcer every day.

 

In Thailand there are no taxes on real estate, or they are minimal or can be avoided if you know the right person, while in the rest of the world those taxes are huge. So property owners can just sit on it, and wait until they need the money, or the price is right.

 

In the meantime, they still collect rental money

[CharlieH]

Reported Troll posts removed.

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, crobe said:

f you knew anything about the Patpong family

 

It's about the asset, not the owners.

 

The rest of your post is irrelevant.  

[Leaver]

38 minutes ago, Susco said:

Land always go up in price, anywhere in the world, because it gets scarcer every day.

 

In Thailand there are no taxes on real estate, or they are minimal or can be avoided if you know the right person, while in the rest of the world those taxes are huge. So property owners can just sit on it, and wait until they need the money, or the price is right.

 

In the meantime, they still collect rental money

 

Sure, property is a long term investment, but getting to that "long term" usually means going through some booms and busts in the property cycle along the way.  

 

Obviously, property here now is in a bust, but it wasn't doing that well pre covid.

 

How many years will it take to recoup the lost value of land here?  The tourism industry will have to rebuild in order to lure buyers back into the property market, both as tenants, and owners.  

 

I agree property taxes are low here, and owners can afford to sit on property.  I am merely pointing out, something lost on a few members here that seem to think I am stating the owners of such properties are all going broke, that if a property is vacant (no revenue from rent) and the value of that property has decreased significantly, due to supply and demand market forces, which covid has all but ceased any demand, and will do for some time, then the owners could be waiting for "the right price" for another 5 to 10 years.  

 

Now, imagine that money invested elsewhere over that time.   If the property doesn't return what the capital would have made invested elsewhere, then they have lost money on that property.   

 

Many property owners here, and most of them are very wealthy Thai's, but that is not the point, now have considerable sums of money tied up in property that took a huge hit in both capital value, and commercial lease revenue, with many being vacant, and could be for the next few years. 

 

Are these very wealthy Thai's all going broke?  No.  Are some smaller Thai property investors here going broke?  Yes, they are, particularly the ones that borrowed to buy property.  

 

Covid has decimated commercial property values here, and income from rent.  Many Thai's are currently sitting on properties that are going backwards in value, and not bringing in any revenue from rent.

 

Basically, property here NOW, as in this present moment, is a non performing asset, no matter what you Thai family name is, or how rich that family is, or isn't.    

[Nout]

On 1/5/2021 at 2:25 PM, madmen said:

Like the ladies it was old and tired. Surprised it lasted this long 

Yeah...well past its sell by date..like the ladies and customers.  However, it was the only day hours go go.

[VBF]

7 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

A decent day time gogo would have a niche market and would probably do well.  

There was a time when TQ, Nevada, Las Vegas and others on Soi Post Office and Soi Yamoto were great daytime gogos. Sadly, in recent years all except TQ have become incredibly boring and / or closed completely.

Edited January 25, 2021 by VBF

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, Leaver said:

Now, imagine that money invested elsewhere over that time.   If the property doesn't return what the capital would have made invested elsewhere, then they have lost money on that property. 

I love how investment gurus point at alternatives where they might have made money (with this wonderful foresight), and allocate that as a 'loss'. It is like me looking at bitcoin now and wailing how I lost so much money by not buying in September. Or perhaps I can enjoy the 'profits' I made by simply leaving money in the bank at 0.0% and not buying some Pattaya property or investing in a Soi 6 bargroup.. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by jacko45k

[Rimmer]

Some inflammatory /baiting posts and replies have been removed

[quake]

15 hours ago, Susco said:

Looks as if they were early on the game with UFC fights

 

 and how old is that photo ?