The US has not been a 'beacon on the hill' to decent people at the latest since the 2nd Iraq war. But considering it armed Saddam with the where with all (including chemical weapons) to prosecute 9 years of murderous trench warfare against Iran, costing millions of lives, it's difficult to know where to set the line.

 

Vietnam?

Indonesia?

North Korea?

 

The headline was missing a 'k': it should have read "US role as demockracy's champion ...". What kind of democracy names the loser of an election the winner. No wonder people believe all the lies swirling around.

 

But it also has to be seen historically.

 

For the post war years a common enemy kept things ticking over. The whole system in the US especially was predicated on that. For the last 30 years there's been no common enemy. The war on terror is a joke. China is a rival not an enemy and there is no cold war despite Trumpler's best efforts. US has alienated its allies. Is busy imploding in fact.

 

Remember how the USSR kept lining up dotard after dotard to save the failing system? A system which like the US was simply not fit for purpose in modern times. Like it or not, Biden is an old remnant of the system.

 

And now you also have millions who seriously think Hillary Clinton drinks children's blood.

 

I wonder if they ask themselves if she has a particular preference? Boy or girl? Blood group? Where does she order it? Does it get delivered by Amazon? Should it be drunk warm or cold? Or used in soups? Is Bill partial to a tipple?

 

Jesus wept.

 

It's bad news for the world if decent forces in the US don't smell the coffee and get active.

 

 

 

18 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

A country without a ‘one man, one vote’ system can never have, and in my view has never had, the role as democracy’s champion. It’s absolutely ridiculous that a party can get millions of votes less than the opposing party and still win an election. It’s absolutely ridiculous how large groups of people can be and have been excluded from voting. The whole gerrymandering issue is an affront to the very concept of fair elections. The USA have absolutely no right to call themselves the greatest democracy in the world. 

 

The US has never been a real democracy, despite its regular use of superlatives to promote itself.

 

The Electoral College, gerrymandering, and other repub voter suppression techniques like closing polling stations in areas with high minority populations, or culling voting records of folks in high Dem areas, are not democracy.  Before the 2018 mid-terms, more than 200,000 Dem voters were removed from voting registers in Georgia, with no legitimate reason given. People such as Stacy Abrams spent a few years correcting that, and the results were clear in the 2020 POTUS election and the Senate runoff.

 

Here's a scary thought:  Because of the anachronism called the Electoral College, changing only 42,918 votes total in the States of AZ, WI and GA would have resulted in an EC tie of 269-269, despite Joe Biden winning the national popular vote by more than 7 million. (AZ, 11 EC votes, 10,457 vote margin---WI, 10 EC votes, 20,682 margin---GA, 16 EC votes, 11,779 margin----306-11-10-16=269, while 232+11+10+16=269)

 

An EC tie then goes to the House, where each State only has one vote, and that based on whether the majority of a State's reps are Dem or Repub. Since more States have a majority Repub representation in the House, 45 would have won the House vote and been re-elected.  42,918 votes when more than 155,000,000 were cast, and Biden had 7,058,637 more than 45, is not democracy.

 

Among the many jobs in front of President Biden will be reforming the system to make the US a true democracy.  The EC had its day; time to abolish it. Gerrymandering must be addressed in the courts. Voting records must be solidified and culling power must be taken away from a partisan State SecState or AG or Governor.  Polling venues must make voting easy for citizens.

I'm a bit confused. Ever since I arrived in Berkeley in '63, the left has been telling everyone to Smash the state. But then when someone or group actually tries, they get all bent out of shape and says we have to protect this institution, it's sacrosanct. Can they make up their minds?

9 minutes ago, Enzian said:

I'm a bit confused. Ever since I arrived in Berkeley in '63, the left has been telling everyone to Smash the state. But then when someone or group actually tries, they get all bent out of shape and says we have to protect this institution, it's sacrosanct. Can they make up their minds?

 

So what you are saying is that a few people, in one city, and in one State, 58 years ago, somehow represents all non-trumpists in 2021?

 

That isn't really going to win you any debate points.

1 hour ago, Enzian said:

I'm a bit confused. Ever since I arrived in Berkeley in '63, the left has been telling everyone to Smash the state. But then when someone or group actually tries, they get all bent out of shape and says we have to protect this institution, it's sacrosanct. Can they make up their minds?

Actually, you're more than a bit confused if you think a few violence espousing Marxists speak for progressives.

 

 

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

No.

It was not a demonstration. 

Stop lying.

It was a terrorist attack on the US capitol trying to reverse the peaceful transition of power.

In all honesty I find your response a tad hysterical. I saw no tanks. I saw no aircraft. I saw no generals or senior officers lead battalions of men against the state.  You accuse me of lying...Another hysterical and in a way violent response simply because I disagree with you. It was a few hours of chaos and the violence and destruction was minimal compared to the summer of sedition created by ANTIFA, BLM and the thousands of middle class millennial Marxists who rampaged against democracy in 2020. Its precisely because leftists and ultra libs can't or won't see any point of view but their own that leads to ordinary people getting angry and frustrated. If for once the leftists could lose their arrogance and stop looking down on their opposition, stop labeling them, soviet style as 'uneducated', 'brainwashed', 'stupid' 'fascist, ' racist'....trying to dehumanizing them, then perhaps some progress should be made. A start would identifying and prosecuting thousands of rioters and arsonists active during the summer who burnt down police stations, court houses and other state institutions. 

3 minutes ago, Nout said:

In all honesty I find your response a tad hysterical. I saw no tanks. I saw no aircraft. I saw no generals or senior officers lead battalions of men against the state.  You accuse me of lying...Another hysterical and in a way violent response simply because I disagree with you. It was a few hours of chaos and the violence and destruction was minimal compared to the summer of sedition created by ANTIFA, BLM and the thousands of middle class millennial Marxists who rampaged against democracy in 2020. Its precisely because leftists and ultra libs can't or won't see any point of view but their own that leads to ordinary people getting angry and frustrated. If for once the leftists could lose their arrogance and stop looking down on their opposition, stop labeling them, soviet style as 'uneducated', 'brainwashed', 'stupid' 'fascist, ' racist'....trying to dehumanizing them, then perhaps some progress should be made. A start would identifying and prosecuting thousands of rioters and arsonists active during the summer who burnt down police stations, court houses and other state institutions. 

Yep, it is strange that some here make something seem waaay worse than it actually was...

 

A.... "Coup"..."Terrorists", most of them probably ended up in McDonald's having a chin-wag over it....????

11 hours ago, onebir said:

What actually needs to happen to exclude him/family from politics?

I think after this latest stunt, not only will he and his entire family be politically radioactive forever, but their business mini empire will continue to decline and shrivel up to a near zero. Golf memberships lost, condos that cannot be rented or sold, no more merchandising deals, no more management deals, likely few investors and no banks will want to touch them, especially with the cloud of legal uncertainty and potential bank fraud hanging over their heads.

 

No more new business. It is the end of the line for this rather infamous and inelegant family. And guess what? They did it to themselves. Way too much hubris. Way too little humility, intelligence, and humanity. 

Shame to USA 

3 hours ago, Enzian said:

I'm a bit confused. Ever since I arrived in Berkeley in '63, the left has been telling everyone to Smash the state. But then when someone or group actually tries, they get all bent out of shape and says we have to protect this institution, it's sacrosanct. Can they make up their minds?

Were you in Berkley when the protesters placed flowers in the barrels of the National Guard's guns which were pointed at them at the time? Didn't see much of that kind of behaviour in the Capitol the other day. In fact I didn't see much evidence of the National Guard which was telling for me.

1 hour ago, transam said:

Yep, it is strange that some here make something seem waaay worse than it actually was...

 

A.... "Coup"..."Terrorists", most of them probably ended up in McDonald's having a chin-wag over it....????

 

just another Trump's promise kept:  "build the wall !"

1 hour ago, transam said:

Yep, it is strange that some here make something seem waaay worse than it actually was...

 

A.... "Coup"..."Terrorists", most of them probably ended up in McDonald's having a chin-wag over it....????

I don't think that there are many McDonalds outlets in US jails which is where many of them are headed.

2 minutes ago, polpott said:

I don't think that there are many McDonalds outlets in US jails which is where many of them are headed.

And rightly so, misguided, brainless people......

Just now, transam said:

And rightly so, misguided, brainless people......

Apparently even Trump thought the same, saying that he was embarrassed by the poor quality of his avenging army, trailer trash.

1 hour ago, transam said:

And rightly so, misguided, brainless people......

"“My commander-in-chief called me and my Lord and Saviour told me” to come, said Debbie Lusk, 66, a retired accountant from Seattle. “We either take our country back, or it is no more.”

Donald Trump’s base storms Washington a day early (theaustralian.com.au)

On 1/9/2021 at 12:58 PM, newatthis said:

Surely his codes, by themselves, would not be sufficient to launch weapons?

Correct. I have seen multiple reports from reliable media saying that the Joint Chiefs of Staff (Pentagon leadership) will not follow illegal orders from the Loser. The nuclear codes have been taken from him. The West Wing of the White House is deserted, and the Loser is isolated. And save your sniveling about the "lamestream media", losers. 

Reported post removed along with response to it.

8 hours ago, transam said:

Yep, it is strange that some here make something seem waaay worse than it actually was...

 

A.... "Coup"..."Terrorists", most of them probably ended up in McDonald's having a chin-wag over it....????

You and Trump are apparently in agreement. Unlike Pence, he has yet to reach out to the family of the police officer who was killed by those McDonald customers. And unlike the House and Senate, he has given no orders to lower flags to half-mast.

So, from January 20 I will have new masters that managed get the power and money but talk non-stop about democracy---scam.

Trump's going for it..

https://www.mediaite.com/news/mypillow-ceo-visits-trump-in-oval-office-carrying-notes-that-appear-to-propose-drastic-action-martial-law-if-necessary/

On 1/10/2021 at 8:46 PM, LawrenceN said:

Correct. I have seen multiple reports from reliable media saying that the Joint Chiefs of Staff (Pentagon leadership) will not follow illegal orders from the Loser. The nuclear codes have been taken from him. The West Wing of the White House is deserted, and the Loser is isolated. And save your sniveling about the "lamestream media", losers. 

'...The nuclear codes have been taken from him. The West Wing of the White House is deserted, and the Loser is isolated."

 

He's still officially the POTUS for 5 more days but the loser seems to have put himself on leave and not doing his job, just continuing crazy comments/videos about having the election stolen from him. Hey donny, the virus/vaccinations needs management attention!