Deserted Cha-Am beach: Hotels chief says foreigners will not return to Thailand until 2022

[newnative]

22 hours ago, ChipButty said:

Tourism was going down before Covid came along

Nonsense.  2010 tourists, 15.9 million.  2019 tourists, 39 million.  

[spidermike007]

8 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

Everybody accepts mostly that there has been a shift in the type and numbers of tourists arriving in Thailand. This, in no small part has occurred by Thailand being proactive and favouring certain groups of tourists believing them to be the future of tourism in the country. The Chinese had already started to explore destinations further afield before the pandemic.

 

The Chinese as tourists, have no particular loyalty to this country and are keen to expand their horizons. I will not comment on the quality of these tourists as that opens the door as to the quality of many western tourists as well. The Chinese government only has loyalty for economic reasons and to expand its tentacles and influence. It will not be a ' good friend '  once it achieves its objectives, which are firstly regional domination and and secondly, world domination.

 

The West has introduced measures to save their economies which are going to cost trillions of dollars and affect the travel and movement of the entire western world. Certain countries such as Australia and New Zealand may bounce back quicker, but USA, Europe and the UK are in "dire straits!." I think people will start holidaying at home or closer to it, those that have jobs at the end of this nightmare, and who can afford it. It is an obvious choice. Cheap air travel could be about to get expensive when this is over.

 

Thailand has become expensive. The fun days and its glory years are over. The likes of Pattaya, Phuket and Samui have survived in a ' time warp ' of their own making for too long, with an appeal to a narrow tourist market share and target audience and greedy and cheating practices being pursued by the natives. The attraction of bar girls has been on the wane for a long time and any of those in that industry worth their salt are online and don't even frequent the bars, leaving that ' niche market ' to women well past their sell by date.I have seen women back in bars, who were in them thirty years ago.

 

Finally, the government. A bunch of prehistoric, out of touch, self enriching, misfits with an archaic approach to modern day problems which is no longer acceptable to an up and coming.better educated as well as better informed, younger Thai population. This large group of people, namely the future of Thailand, just won't accept anymore what is going on and are rebelling against the old guard.

 

What has the Thai government think tank come up with to encourage tourism as a way to propel the economy and the country forward?

 

Poor deals on certain visas if you invest 5 or 10 million in a condo project, Golfing specialized vacations, STV visas which haven't even broke into a stride, and 14 day ASQ hotels, Health tourism and wellness packages,  whilst referring to us in the media as ' foreigners ' even ' dirty foreigners ' by certain members of government, as opposed to tourists or customers. They only relaxed and relented on allowing the Non O visa holders and OA visas and those with extensions of stay back in after the STV project flopped.

 

The xenophobic attitudes have been blatant, except when they asked long term foreigners to get out and help ' domestic tourism ' and then to cap it off, they say they are going to charge an extra 300 baht entry for the purpose of funding the hospitals for foreigners who can't pay and to upgrade tourist sites. What have they done with all the trillions and trillions of baht that has been brought to the country by tourism over the years? They certainly have not spent it on beach upgrades, pavements and walkways or facilities to make the foreign guest want to return.

 

I have never left a hospital without paying a bill in OPD and I am insured for in patient. I don't know anybody who has, except for cases that have popped up on TVF regarding ' freak accidents ' or stories where insurance companies have wriggled out due to small print or the tourist participating in dangerous sports and these cases amongst 30 to 40 million tourists are a ' drop in the bucket ' and certainly do not justify a 300 baht charge per person, it's just plain and simple ' gouging the tourist ' 

 

It wasn't long ago they filtered in a charge to the ticket price for the new sophisticated face and fingerprint scanners at the airports, was it?

 

Speaking of which and back on subject, I wonder if the beaches and seas of Cha Am are now worth visiting, with it being quieter?

 

Hopefully no fighting to get a deckchair and maybe some reasonably priced seafood.

 

Very good post. Alot of factual stuff. Totally agree about the Chinese market, and the hospitals. Not enough are skipping out of on bills for this to be a real issue. I do not think any hospital here lets you leave without paying a bill. This administration is beyond regressive. They are dinosaurs. 

[Mai mee]

57 minutes ago, newnative said:

      So, if it's 'been happening for years', as you say, you nicely prove the point that tourist numbers were up, rather than down, pre-covid.  If the same counting system has been used 'for years', you can look at the counted tourist numbers and see that every single year since 2010 the tourist numbers are up, except for 2014, the year of the coup.  2010 was 15.9 million and 2019 39 million.    

Sorry but It doesn't matter how many "zero baht" package tourists you cram on a plane or into bus... the net effect on the tourist economy is squat...  Numbers is what the TAT WANT you to focus on... it's their smoke and mirrors game... They never seem to have reputable numbers on the amount SPENT by the haggard bus-bound masses. Most of the money these people spend never leaves China. 

[eastlight]

21 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

And you sir, are certainly entitled to that opinion of yours. But many would disagree. The problem with tourism, is that it is more complication than plumbing. The nice thing about plumbing, is that you can simply turn on a faucet, and even if it has not been used in years, and the water simply flows out. Not the same with tourism. You can't just turn on the faucet of tourism, and expect it to perform exactly as it did, before the world changed.

 

There are an infinite number of variables here. Will the planet resume long haul flights like before? Will the average tourist have as much money to spend? Will Thailand make any sacrifices, to get those tourists back? Tourism has been dropping for years before Covid. They claim the numbers were up. But, anyone in the industry will tell you the quality was way, way down. The low to middle income Indian and Chinese tourists that made up around half of the visitors were decimated by Covid. 

 

We are both guessing, and for that matter throwing our guesses into a 75kph gust of wind. Which way it will blow is just a guess. But, I would guess tourism will be a fraction of what it was before, for a dozen good reasons, which I will not spell out at this time. 

I always look forward to your input Sidermike.

[Nurseynutcase]

22 hours ago, TheFreqFlyer said:

In your dreams. 2019 was a record year for tourism; 40 million arrivals came. Go troll elsewhere. 

Yes 40 million arrivals in 2019.  However how many of those were people re-entering on a one year non-o visa who had to leave the country every three months?  Also people who had converted to a B visa who had to return to their homeland for the paperwork.  Not forgetting many ex-pats who came and left Thailand to visit other places and/or family.  Don't forget the oil workers - one month on one month off, therefore multiple entries  So the 40 million arrivals does not equate to 40 million visitors.

 

I agree with SpiderMike that tourism was going down.  I have lived here in Kata and have seen the numbers of tourists fall year on year.

 

With regards to future tourism it will take many years to rebuild.  a lot of the 'regular' visitors here are no longer working in their own countries so that even if Thailand does open up people will not have the funds to get here..

[jomtienisgood]

1 hour ago, Nurseynutcase said:

Yes 40 million arrivals in 2019.  However how many of those were people re-entering on a one year non-o visa who had to leave the country every three months?  Also people who had converted to a B visa who had to return to their homeland for the paperwork.  Not forgetting many ex-pats who came and left Thailand to visit other places and/or family.  Don't forget the oil workers - one month on one month off, therefore multiple entries  So the 40 million arrivals does not equate to 40 million visitors.

 

I agree with SpiderMike that tourism was going down.  I have lived here in Kata and have seen the numbers of tourists fall year on year.

 

With regards to future tourism it will take many years to rebuild.  a lot of the 'regular' visitors here are no longer working in their own countries so that even if Thailand does open up people will not have the funds to get here..

I also agree, same here in Pattaya.

[newnative]

42 minutes ago, Mai mee said:

Sorry but It doesn't matter how many "zero baht" package tourists you cram on a plane or into bus... the net effect on the tourist economy is squat...  Numbers is what the TAT WANT you to focus on... it's their smoke and mirrors game... They never seem to have reputable numbers on the amount SPENT by the haggard bus-bound masses. Most of the money these people spend never leaves China. 

      Utter nonsense.  You must not get out much.  Not all tourists are budget tourists and not all Asian tourists are on budget tours; not that there's anything wrong with budget tours--most countries have them.  In 2019, Thailand had 11 million tourists from China.   But, it's often overlooked that it also had 18 million tourists from other Asian countries--sort of dashes your claim that the tourist money 'never leaves China', especially since 18 million of the Asian tourists were arriving with money from other countries.

      The tourists pre-covid in Pattaya filling and keeping open Amari, Hilton, Centre Point, Holiday Inn, Centara, Mytt, Hard Rock, Siam@Siam, Palazzo, Brighton, et al,  and all the numerous nice boutique hotels, were predominately Asian.  Until recently I lived next to a very nice boutique hotel in Wong Amat and I could observe the arrival of the guests and see them on the beach--almost all Asian with occasionally some Russians.  

    2019 tourist numbers: 29 million from Asian countries, 8.3 million from Europe and the Americas.  Tourists from Asian countries were dominant in filling hotel rooms, restaurant seats, and tourist attractions--and keeping local folks employed. Yes, some budget but, as I said, not all--and each and every tourist needs to eat and sleep somewhere.  Every tourist contributes to the local economy.   If you want any more evidence of how totally misinformed your statement '...the net effect on the tourist economy is squat...' is, get out and take a drive around Pattaya now and see just what the 'net effect' the absence of international tourists--Asian or otherwise--has made on Pattaya.   

[NeoDinosaw]

On 1/15/2021 at 4:12 AM, DaLa said:

Long term residents are doing a reasonable job of keeping the bars open at the Wednesday market and there have been occasional weekends where the Thais have flooded the  beaches.

 

The good restaurants (and not cheap) appear to have  a steady flow of custom. For example Love Bread on Phetchkasem  Road.  

Do you have a financial interest in Love Bread ?

 

[DaLa]

On 1/16/2021 at 2:31 PM, NeoDinosaw said:

Do you have a financial interest in Love Bread ?

 

Absolutely not, though I will admit to a gastronomic interest in Love Bread.  The co-owner of the original restaurant/cafe ( The Baguette, on the same road) was French and the proof of the pudding was in his pastry. His recipe managed to duplicate European breads, pies, cakes and deserts; that is avoiding copious amounts of sugar, salt and weird combinations of flavours.  The nearest I've got to acceptable Thai equivalents is in Tops supermarket, but the selection is severely limited.

[WHansen]

On 1/16/2021 at 7:31 AM, NeoDinosaw said:

Do you have a financial interest in Love Bread ?

 

I guess you have never bothered to thank someone or write a good review for a business that gives a good service.

 

Love bread is a great shop with polite service. I regularly pop in for their short crust pastry pies.

[TheFreqFlyer]

On 1/15/2021 at 9:13 PM, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Slowly. They announced yesterday that they hope to vaccinate 70% of the population by early next year. Who knows when they'll get around to the final 30%.

That is not the plan. Herd immunity is only 30-60% according to Bill Gates. Others are saying 70-80% but once that's achieved the job has been done. Why would you go for 100%? Ain't going to happen. Not everyone wants to be vaccinated. 

[TheFreqFlyer]

On 1/16/2021 at 12:10 PM, Nurseynutcase said:

Yes 40 million arrivals in 2019.  However how many of those were people re-entering on a one year non-o visa who had to leave the country every three months?  Also people who had converted to a B visa who had to return to their homeland for the paperwork.  Not forgetting many ex-pats who came and left Thailand to visit other places and/or family.  Don't forget the oil workers - one month on one month off, therefore multiple entries  So the 40 million arrivals does not equate to 40 million visitors.

 

I agree with SpiderMike that tourism was going down.  I have lived here in Kata and have seen the numbers of tourists fall year on year.

 

With regards to future tourism it will take many years to rebuild.  a lot of the 'regular' visitors here are no longer working in their own countries so that even if Thailand does open up people will not have the funds to get here..

Nevertheless, there were more tourists in 2019 than at anytime in the past. Most from Asian countries. Perhaps you can't distinguish between different Asians hence why you thought tourism was down, when in fact the ratio of Asian vs farang tourists simply increased over the years.

 

However, I can assure you wherever I've been traveling in Thailand there have been plenty of tourists, including farang, as late as early March 2020. 

[chocdee120]

Cha am venders have been ripping off customers for ages, overpriced seafood + charged again to sit down and eat it. If it wasn't for the Bangkok brigade turning up at the weekend’s the beach would be deserted. Start charging reasonable prices that will encourage customers to return rather than a rip them off once never mind if they don’t come back.

[chocdee120]

On 1/17/2021 at 9:13 PM, WHansen said:

I guess you have never bothered to thank someone or write a good review for a business that gives a good service.

 

Love bread is a great shop with polite service. I regularly pop in for their short crust pastry pies.

Filled with a teaspoonful of junk

[adammike]

On 1/15/2021 at 7:44 AM, TheFreqFlyer said:

I rarely come onto Thaivisa anymore and only even bother when I'm browsing my Facebook profile and an interesting story comes my way.

 

I then click on the link and even if it's been a month or two, or 6, your comments stand out because they're the same claptrap every time. You're like a wind up doll. 

 

You keep making ridiculous predictions about how no one wants to come here anymore, that the world will forget the country, there will only be 1 million visitors next year blah blah blah when the only thing keeping visitors away from the country are the current ridiculous travel restrictions.

 

Visitors will return tomorrow and in big numbers once travel restrictions are lifted, including border crossings re-opened and flights resuming normal service.

 

There will be 20-30 million annual visitors in no time, once the global economy recovers. 

You only need the last five words,the rest is just claptrap.

[baansgr]

On 1/16/2021 at 10:34 AM, newnative said:

Nonsense.  2010 tourists, 15.9 million.  2019 tourists, 39 million.  

Almost 2 million from Laos out of a population of 7 million....really, they are tourists?

[newnative]

3 hours ago, baansgr said:

Almost 2 million from Laos out of a population of 7 million....really, they are tourists?

    Maybe not but you're missing the point.  I was responding to a poster's ridiculous claim that tourism was declining 'for years' in Thailand even before covid. If the TAT counting system didn't change in those 10 years, 39 million is clearly higher than 15 million.  Some of the 15 million were not tourists and some of the 39 million, as well.  Take away your 2 million from Laos and it's still higher.  

[jomtienisgood]

10 hours ago, adammike said:

You only need the last five words,the rest is just claptrap.

The rest is just claptrap... thank you for info 55555

[TheFreqFlyer]

11 hours ago, adammike said:

You only need the last five words,the rest is just claptrap.

Nah. 

 

That dude occasionally makes some good observations but this time he's posting his usual long-winded drivel about Thailand having been dying and devoid of tourists for decades and doom and gloom predictions.

 

Open up and they will come. 

[jomtienisgood]

1 hour ago, TheFreqFlyer said:

Nah. 

 

That dude occasionally makes some good observations but this time he's posting his usual long-winded drivel about Thailand having been dying and devoid of tourists for decades and doom and gloom predictions.

 

Open up and they will come. 

Let me open up my loving arms and legs.... Dixit Bette Midler.....

[lovethai123]

On 1/15/2021 at 9:56 AM, spidermike007 said:

(lower to middle income Chinese and Indians) 

cant say abt chinese bt indians?? the ugly  men's  groups u see around pattaya beach are actually very rich, visit a russian club or a soi honey and see the bundles they throw.

they need beauty and not the ugly ones. they find beauty in soapy palours or russian clubs. 

bt those men have wives and kids back home and they wont travel to thailand for the purpose.  

 

i asked a few  and everyone said no to international travel. 

[lovethai123]

i wont agree to this 39 million number,

lets talk pre covid

 

in 2019 alone i have 14 entry/exit from thailand, these i can count right now while being drunk,  i have checked the stamped date with 2019.

for me thailand is the hub to visit a neighbouring country, 

 

does this mean i will be counted as 14 tourists or 1 tourist.

 

what about that millions of laos , khmer and burmese entering the system, lot of them come for small business deals in neighbouring town which happens to be in thailand. they cross via immigration.

 

many western tourists , enter BKK , then  to dmk,  dmk to an airport near the burmese or lao border and cross over . 

 

are they tourists?

 

some fly from dmk to other countries but they all are recorded as entry on the I/O system.

 

even malays cross the border for small business deals and shopping via a legal border crossing.

 

 

so we know how we reach the wonderful number of 39 million

 

 

 

 

[lovethai123]

23 hours ago, baansgr said:

Almost 2 million from Laos out of a population of 7 million....really, they are tourists?

I remember meeting many laotian girls on the streets and on apps.

 

But none of them loved me even though they called me or texted me first.  To my surprise they expected a compensation for a date. 

 

I know Thailand is prostitution free country and I  denied their sleazy offers. I even showed one lao girl ,  a news article stating that Thailand has no prostitution and so you should not demand any compensation for a date.

 

As you approached me for being  a handsome man, please get an HIV test and I would go barebone with you and impregnate you with my handsome semen so you can have handsome babies.

 

In case you are unable to get an HIV test, I won't mind jerking off for you and donating my semen to you so you can make handsome babies.

 

She thought I am a retard and asked me to leave. Those were her business hours. ????????????

 

 

 

 

[spidermike007]

6 hours ago, lovethai123 said:

i wont agree to this 39 million number,

lets talk pre covid

 

in 2019 alone i have 14 entry/exit from thailand, these i can count right now while being drunk,  i have checked the stamped date with 2019.

for me thailand is the hub to visit a neighbouring country, 

 

does this mean i will be counted as 14 tourists or 1 tourist.

 

what about that millions of laos , khmer and burmese entering the system, lot of them come for small business deals in neighbouring town which happens to be in thailand. they cross via immigration.

 

many western tourists , enter BKK , then  to dmk,  dmk to an airport near the burmese or lao border and cross over . 

 

are they tourists?

 

some fly from dmk to other countries but they all are recorded as entry on the I/O system.

 

even malays cross the border for small business deals and shopping via a legal border crossing.

 

 

so we know how we reach the wonderful number of 39 million

 

 

 

 

 

You represented 14 visitors, no doubt. Do you really think they would create a system, that would deliberately tell the real story, and lower their numbers? Transparency? Honesty? Lets get real here, we are speaking of the Prayuth Administration, Pipat, the TAT, and a house of cards. 

[TheFreqFlyer]

8 hours ago, lovethai123 said:

i wont agree to this 39 million number,

lets talk pre covid

 

in 2019 alone i have 14 entry/exit from thailand, these i can count right now while being drunk,  i have checked the stamped date with 2019.

for me thailand is the hub to visit a neighbouring country, 

 

does this mean i will be counted as 14 tourists or 1 tourist.

 

what about that millions of laos , khmer and burmese entering the system, lot of them come for small business deals in neighbouring town which happens to be in thailand. they cross via immigration.

 

many western tourists , enter BKK , then  to dmk,  dmk to an airport near the burmese or lao border and cross over . 

 

are they tourists?

 

some fly from dmk to other countries but they all are recorded as entry on the I/O system.

 

even malays cross the border for small business deals and shopping via a legal border crossing.

 

 

so we know how we reach the wonderful number of 39 million

 

 

 

 

Good point, but I still believe that even if those numbers are based on arrivals and not unique visitor numbers (I've often asked myself the question...if I take 18 trips abroad a year, am I counted as 18 visitors?) probably yes...but it doesn't change the fact that in my opinion there were a record number of unique arrivals in 2019. Just the exponential increase in Chinese visitors since 2007 attests to that fact. It could well be there were only say 15-20 million "unique" foreign arrivals (including traders etc. which should be counted too even if they're not tourists) once you take out the duplicates. 

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, TheFreqFlyer said:

Good point, but I still believe that even if those numbers are based on arrivals and not unique visitor numbers (I've often asked myself the question...if I take 18 trips abroad a year, am I counted as 18 visitors?) probably yes...but it doesn't change the fact that in my opinion there were a record number of unique arrivals in 2019. Just the exponential increase in Chinese visitors since 2007 attests to that fact. It could well be there were only say 15-20 million "unique" foreign arrivals (including traders etc. which should be counted too even if they're not tourists) once you take out the duplicates. 

 

Quantity over quality. Mostly lower to middle income Chinese, Malaysians and Indians. This does not bode well for the future of the industry. And that was before the Zombie Apocalypse. Imagine after? It was good for two and three star hotels, cheap restaurants, cheap buffets, some of the trinket shops, Tesco, and 7/11. The quality was only declining. The numbers of high rollers that came here were very, very small. 

 

There are an infinite number of things they could be doing, if they wanted to attract the rich tourists and high rollers, they keep droning on and on about. But, they all require sacrifice. Lowering luxury taxes, lowering wine tariffs, improving English skills, improving the educational system, traffic safety, air quality, etc. 

 

The nitwits in charge do not know what sacrifice means, nor do they even acknowledge the need for it. The TCOKU (Thailand is the center of the known universe) drivel continues. One would have hoped a catastrophic event like this would have allowed for some humility and an attitude adjustment on the part of Pipat, Anutin, Prayuth and the others. Has that happened? Not one iota it would appear.

 

Thailand must rid itself of dinosaur leadership, who are moving the nation backwards. To call this class of people regressive, would be an understatement! 

[newnative]

19 hours ago, TheFreqFlyer said:

Good point, but I still believe that even if those numbers are based on arrivals and not unique visitor numbers (I've often asked myself the question...if I take 18 trips abroad a year, am I counted as 18 visitors?) probably yes...but it doesn't change the fact that in my opinion there were a record number of unique arrivals in 2019. Just the exponential increase in Chinese visitors since 2007 attests to that fact. It could well be there were only say 15-20 million "unique" foreign arrivals (including traders etc. which should be counted too even if they're not tourists) once you take out the duplicates. 

      I agree.  And, if you took those 18 trips in 2010 they would have been counted the same way then as they were counted in 2019.  2010 Thailand counted 15 million visitors.  2019, 39 million.  The numbers show a steady rise except for 2014, the year of the coup.  I think if TAT wanted to cook the books they could have done so in 2014 to also show a rise from 2013 but, instead, they published the number showing arrivals dropped.  

      I always find it laughable when posters claim tourism was declining for years even before covid.   I live in Pattaya and even just by observation you could see that wasn't the case.  But, the concrete proof was also there--in all the very many new additions to the city--topped off with the massive Terminal 21.  When I arrived in 2010 (and was counted), Pattaya had grown enough with tourism to be able to support a Central Festival.  By 2019, it could add T21 and much more to the mix. 

[SupermarineS6B]

3 hours ago, newnative said:

      I agree.  And, if you took those 18 trips in 2010 they would have been counted the same way then as they were counted in 2019.  2010 Thailand counted 15 million visitors.  2019, 39 million.  The numbers show a steady rise except for 2014, the year of the coup.  I think if TAT wanted to cook the books they could have done so in 2014 to also show a rise from 2013 but, instead, they published the number showing arrivals dropped.  

      I always find it laughable when posters claim tourism was declining for years even before covid.   I live in Pattaya and even just by observation you could see that wasn't the case.  But, the concrete proof was also there--in all the very many new additions to the city--topped off with the massive Terminal 21.  When I arrived in 2010 (and was counted), Pattaya had grown enough with tourism to be able to support a Central Festival.  By 2019, it could add T21 and much more to the mix. 

I live in Bkk, it's been on its knees the last three years now and if i was to believe figures released in Thailand then i would add a little more water to my whisky.......  Thailand's losing all it's character and if a shopping mall is progress then i would suggest a move to Singapore, Hong Kong or even Shanghai........   I think you might want to find out how many new condos have been built that have been empty for years .......  

[newnative]

1 hour ago, SupermarineS6B said:

I live in Bkk, it's been on its knees the last three years now and if i was to believe figures released in Thailand then i would add a little more water to my whisky.......  Thailand's losing all it's character and if a shopping mall is progress then i would suggest a move to Singapore, Hong Kong or even Shanghai........   I think you might want to find out how many new condos have been built that have been empty for years .......  

      When I visit a country as a tourist I don't buy a condo--heck, I usually don't even buy a haircut--so I'm not sure what the state of the local condo market has to do with the number of tourists visiting Thailand.  I can't speak for Bangkok but I do know that Pattaya was attracting tourists in numbers that supported the construction of a number of large, highrise hotels, as well as dozens of new boutique hotels.  And, new restaurants, malls, and entertainments such as D'Luck Theater, Legend Siam, and two new water parks, among other new attractions.

     Even now, construction continues on 3 large highrise hotels just in my area of town, as well as a number of boutique hotels--I walk past one of them under construction every day on my morning walk.   And, hey, guess what?  We're getting a 747--wings and all!--just a block off Pattaya Beach!  I kid you not!   Always something new going in. 

     Now, did each and every business do well these past years?  No, of course not.  Some businesses succeed, some fail with changing demographics, changing buying preferences, and other factors.  Joe's bar catering to old retirees closes, Terminal 21 opens.  Loss of maybe a half dozen jobs at the bar, gain of maybe a thousand jobs at T21.   All of this pre-covid, of course, but it is encouraging to see some construction still going on and many businesses using the down time to make  some changes and improvements.