Britain resists giving EU diplomats full status, sparking row

[vinny41]

The only way you going to change this is to get all 27 EU countries to accede their immigration controls including visa access to the EU comission

Its not going to happen 

Edited January 22, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The United Nations is not a country but it’s officers enjoy Functional Diplomatic Immunity.

 

You want whataboutery to work for you here? The EU delegation only gets what it needs to do their bureaucratic jobs. 

 

Just to rub it in a little more, the individual EU member states all get their own full diplomatic immunity because they are proper countries, not a bloated international quango. Let the EU fly its flag and sing its anthem or even pay with its own currency, but it's not a proper country.

[Hi from France]

2 hours ago, Proboscis said:

The argument against the USA being a mere "international" organization as in a federation of states is that it has its own currency, central bank, parliament, president, law and judiciary. But then, so does the EU.

 

There is also another argument. Taking away full diplomatic status because you are a sore winner (well, the UK got what it wanted!) is terrible foreign policy. In fact, often one has to hold one's nose over strict protocol matters just so as to get the job done - take any of a number of instances involving Donald Trump where he managed to cause trouble and insult leaders and whole nations - many of those leaders just swallowed the insults just so as to get the job done.

 

 

for me I understand this is a ‘silly spat’, but it does have symbolic importance

 and what I get is Michel Barnier said the U.K. will have to be "very careful" with its next steps, and that the issue is likely to be discussed at a EU foreign affairs council on Monday.

 

For me I say they should refuse any petty arrangement insist the E.U. ambassador be allowed to present credentials to the queen, like all ambassadors

[Mavideol]

5 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

Just Brussels.

bad news, it will happen in all EU members capitals

[bluedoc]

22 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

If the UK wants to break up diplomatic relationships, I guess their diplomats could be treated equally in Brussels, Paris and Berlin. 
 

 

 

What do you mean, the EU diplomat is not recognised in EU member countries or the UK diplomats will not be recognised in EU countries?

[Loiner]

3 hours ago, George Aylesham said:

True - but under vastly inferior conditions. The UK simply doesn't have the same weight in trade negotiations as the EU.

According to Remainers, aren't all these new trade deal simply 'roll overs' of the existing deals?

 

The UK will make upcoming deals with the likes of the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), India and the Commonwealth bloc, or even the US.  Fortunately the lumbering trade weight of the EU and its negotiating tactics makes it too slow to make similar deals compared to the agile and pro-free trade UK.

[onthedarkside]

A pair of posts that engaged in derogatory name calling toward a public figure have been removed.

 

[Loiner]

24 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

bad news, it will happen in all EU members capitals

Fake news. There are already UK diplomats with the appropriate immunity in EU member capitals, as there are individual European countries diplomats in the UK. They all qualify in the diplomatic stakes, but the pompous EU does not.

[Hi from France]

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

And the EU enjoy Functional Diplomatic Immunity.

It is understood that the Foreign Office is affording the EU the same level of diplomatic protection as other international organisations 

Like you just did, the foreign office is denying the right the EU to be recognized as a state like the United States of America, assigning it to a category called "other international organisations". 

 

Should the EU retaliate to this petty humiliation and how? 

 

As a European, I think we definitely we should have the UK pay the price for this, the question is how. 

 

. 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Hi from France

[VocalNeal]

EU is not a nation state end of.

[Thingamabob]

23 hours ago, Sujo said:

Its for tne eu to decide if he has the same. Wich is the slippery slope.

Rubbish.

[Hi from France]

Quote

One EU source said: "It seems petty. This is not about privileges, it's about principle. What does it say about the UK, about how much the British signature is worth?"

As well as the fact the UK signed the Lisbon Treaty, stipulating that EU diplomats be granted the "privileges and immunities equivalent to those referred to in the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations of 18 April 1961".

 

Now regarding how much the British signature is worth, we pretty much agree there is a need to know it's not worth much.. 

 

 

 

 

But this move is not just petty it is also an encouragement for our ennemies to do the same 

Quote

Some in the EU also fear hostile states might copy the UK and downgrade the protections granted to EU diplomats in their own countries. This could open them up to being harassed and make them easier for them to be expelled.

So I say we should not only stand our grounds and demand full diplomatic status, but take sanctions 

 

 

Quotes from the original BBC article https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55742664

Edited January 22, 2021 by Hi from France

[Loiner]

22 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

 

 denying the right the EU to be recognized as a state like the United States of America, 

 

Should the EU retaliate to this petty humiliation and how? 

 

 we should have the UK pay the price for this

 

. 

The EU is not a state like the US.

There's that retaliation thing again, just like the retaliation for leaving?

Why do our EU 'friends' want us to pay any sort of price? Obviously were never our friends.

[bkkcanuck8]

On 1/21/2021 at 6:19 AM, stevenl said:

EEC didn't have ambassadors.

 

First UK agreed with full diplomatic status, now they don't.

 

Is the UK interested in diplomatic connections with the EU, or only with the individual countries?

It is up to the UK on whether to grant diplomatic status, but it is the height of stupid silliness not to grant diplomatic status.   There are lots of diplomats that are for international organization (though often representing a country to organization HQ) [NATO being one].  The difference between of course with NATO is since it is not a trading block there is not the need for diplomats to represent NATO as a whole (my guess is that function would fall to US anyway).  To not grant diplomatic status is just a stupid slight for internal UK politics reasons.   It can of course be worked around by having the EU diplomats be covered by their individual nations, but this should not be necessary.   You can even have 3rd countries represent your nations interests in countries where diplomatic relations have been severed (Italy provides Canadians with diplomatic representation in Iran). 

 

BTW, Canada has an Ambassador to the EU and an EU Ambassador to Canada.

 

This type of silliness only really hurts the UK in the end... as it does nothing to enhance UK's reputation internationally (very undiplomatic more the behaviour of a third world tin pot dictator).

Edited January 22, 2021 by bkkcanuck8

[Hi from France]

27 minutes ago, Loiner said:

The EU is not a state like the US.

There's that retaliation thing again, just like the retaliation for leaving? 

There was no retaliation for leaving, this was purely self-inflicted 

 

27 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Why do our EU 'friends' want us to pay any sort of price? Obviously were never our friends.

This is different, here the UK is playing the hand of our ennemies, Russia mostly but other hostiles states as well. 

 

I hope the appropriate sanctions will be taken Wednesday. 

[JonnyF]

Great move by Boris. The EU isn't a nation state. It might be in 10 years if it survives that long, at which point we will remove the rights of "sovereign nations" like France and Germany that are downgraded to regions of the United States of Europe.

 

Boris is playing a blinder. Masssively outperforming the EU on the vaccine rollout and now this. Bravo.

 

 

[RayC]

50 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

 

But this move is not just petty it is also an encouragement for our ennemies to do the same 

 

So I say we should not only stand our grounds and demand full diplomatic status, but take sanctions

 

Bit melodramatic don't you think? I can't believe that Putin and Xi are thinking: 'This really offers us an opportunity to get at the EU (states)'.

 

Sanctions? Over this? Why doesn't the EU just reciprocate and afford the UK delegation to the EU exactly the same - or,  if they wish to make a point - lower diplomatic status as that granted to the EU delegates?

 

Having said that, I wish someone would explain what the UK hopes to achieve by this petty gesture?

 

And on the other side of the coin, what is the real effect on the EU? Little more than a few bruised egos, necessitating a lot of strutting and preening.

Edited January 22, 2021 by RayC
Spelling, grammar changes

[bkkcanuck8]

3 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

There was no retaliation for leaving, this was purely self-inflicted 

 

This is different, here the UK is playing the hand of our ennemies, Russia mostly but other hostiles states as well. 

 

I hope the appropriate sanctions will be taken Wednesday. 

It is something for some reason Brexiters have a hard time grasping, they are now being treated no differently than the US when it comes to import/export paperwork etc. 

 

You are either inside the common market or you are outside, if you are outside you have to go through all the same process as the US.  The difference is that the US large corporations accept and are experienced with the extra red tape and may set up distributors in the EU proper,  small companies tend not to have much business with foreign markets at that point in their process.  The trade in the UK will adjust similar - small companies will have to replace the EU business with local business - or shrink/fold... unless they grow in size... while big business will be more use to dealing with international trade.

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 hours ago, bluedoc said:

What do you mean, the EU diplomat is not recognised in EU member countries or the UK diplomats will not be recognised in EU countries?

If the UK doesn’t recognize EU diplomats, EU countries could also not recognize UK diplomats. 

[sungod]

57 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

If the UK doesn’t recognize EU diplomats, EU countries could also not recognize UK diplomats. 

Silly statement, the UK recognizes fully diplomats from each individual sovereign European country as they should afford the UK the same right.

[tgw]

5 minutes ago, sungod said:

Silly statement, the UK recognizes fully diplomats from each individual sovereign European country as they should afford the UK the same right.

 

why?

I think the EU should recognize diplomats from Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland instead.

"nation  states", you know...

Edited January 22, 2021 by tgw

[sungod]

10 minutes ago, tgw said:

 

why?

I think the EU should recognize diplomats from Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland instead.

"nation  states", you know...

EU can do what they want, UK is talking sovereign states.

 

 

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, Hi from France said:

Like you just did, the foreign office is denying the right the EU to be recognized as a state like the United States of America, assigning it to a category called "other international organisations". 

 

Should the EU retaliate to this petty humiliation and how? 

 

As a European, I think we definitely we should have the UK pay the price for this, the question is how. 

 

. 

Furious MEP erupts fearing EU trying to build superstate after UK ambassador row

BRUSSELS has been warned not to pursue its federalist dream of a United States of Europe following a brutal spat with the UK over the diplomatic status of the EU ambassador to Britain.

The warning came from Finnish MEP Laura Huhtasaari who backed the UK's decision to deny EU Ambassador Joao Vale de Almeida the same diplomatic status enjoyed by other ambassadors of national governments. The eurosceptic MEP was prompt to point out the European Union is not a state and "should not be treated as such". She tweeted: "The British do not want to give the EU ambassador in Brussels the same diplomatic rights as the ambassadors of European countries.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1387565/EU-news-eu-ambassador-uk-row-Joao-vale-de-Almeida-Laura-huhtasaari-mep

[Proboscis]

3 hours ago, bluedoc said:

What do you mean, the EU diplomat is not recognised in EU member countries or the UK diplomats will not be recognised in EU countries?

There are NO EU Delegations to EU countries for the same reason as there are no British Embassies in Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and England.

 

So s/he must mean that UK diplomats might not be recognised in EU countries or the British Ambassador to the EU in Brussels.

 

[herfiehandbag]

4 hours ago, puipuitom said:

Not even one Brit, who has anything to say or have influence on since 01 Jan 2021, 00:00:01

I think what you are saying is that it is none of our business. It isn't, thank God. anymore! We're shot of the whole rotten, corrupt, posing, shooting match.

 

However, much as you so love to comment, usually based on a somewhat fanciful interpretation, upon UK politics, so then shall I make occasional comment on EU politics - I think that is fair enough - can you cope with that, perched as you are on the "moral high ground"?

[Hi from France]

2 hours ago, RayC said:

Bit melodramatic don't you think? I can't believe that Putin and Xi are thinking: 'This really offers us an opportunity to get at the EU (states)'.

 

Sanctions? Over this? Why doesn't the EU just reciprocate and afford the UK delegation to the EU exactly the same - or,  if they wish to make a point - lower diplomatic status as that granted to the EU delegates?

 

Having said that, I wish someone would explain what the UK hopes to achieve by this petty gesture?

 

And on the other side of the coin, what is the real effect on the EU? Little more than a few bruised egos, necessitating a lot of strutting and preening.

First, I'm <vexed>. You know I'm fine with Brexit and having the UK as an external, no-veto third party, but I'm as <vexed> as with any third country doing that, including Trump's US.

 

Ok this is just a symbol, like the UE ambassador will be called last after ambassadors of minor countries at ceremonies.

 

so yes this is just petty, as the UK is now but it does mean a lot

 

 

 

 

second as the BBC said

Quote

the EU also fear hostile states might copy the UK and downgrade the protections granted to EU diplomats

this might have very very real consequences down the line for our diplomats

 

 

 

while we already see the UK backpedaling at that we should in no way be satisfied with the second-rate answers we got from Downing Street at present

Quote

"Those discussions continue but we will ensure that the EU delegation receives the privileges and immunities necessary to allow them to carry out its full diplomatic work,"

 

 

 

 

I hope that sanctions will be taken, not only with the UK in mind but also "pour encourager les autres"  as we say

 

 

 

.

Edited January 22, 2021 by Hi from France

[bkkcanuck8]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

The EU is not a state like the US.

There's that retaliation thing again, just like the retaliation for leaving?

Why do our EU 'friends' want us to pay any sort of price? Obviously were never our friends.

No the EU is not a state like the US.... A more proper term would be that it is 'Confederation' of sovereign states who have agreed to harmonize trade into a common market with a common currency (with provisions for opting out of the common currency).  This harmonization leads to common standards and a common regulation framework with regards to standards. 

 

Countries DO NOT have friends, they have relationships with countries that have common interests... but I would not consider a country a friend - as when it comes down to it - they have a duty to act in their own self interest.

 

Why should the UK be treated special to any other country that is not part of the EU and also has common interests (US, Canada)?

Edited January 22, 2021 by bkkcanuck8

[herfiehandbag]

20 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

First, I'm <vexed>. You know I'm fine with Brexit and having the UK as an external, no-veto third party, but I'm as <vexed> as with any third country doing that, including Trump's US.

 

Ok this is just a symbol, like the UE ambassador will be called last after ambassadors of minor countries at ceremonies.

 

so yes this is just petty, as the UK is now but it does mean a lot

 

 

 

 

second as the BBC said

this might have very very real consequences down the line for our diplomats

 

 

 

while we already see the UK backpedaling at that we should in no way be satisfied with the second-rate answers we got from Downing Street at present

 

 

 

 

I hope that sanctions will be taken, not only with the UK in mind but also "pour encourager les autres"  as we say

 

 

 

.

Look on the bright side my dear chap - your written English has come on by leaps and bounds since you started posting regularly on matters relating to the United Kingdom and "Brexit". One could almost imagine that you are an Englishman pretending to be a Frenchman!

[candide]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Furious MEP erupts fearing EU trying to build superstate after UK ambassador row

BRUSSELS has been warned not to pursue its federalist dream of a United States of Europe following a brutal spat with the UK over the diplomatic status of the EU ambassador to Britain.

The warning came from Finnish MEP Laura Huhtasaari who backed the UK's decision to deny EU Ambassador Joao Vale de Almeida the same diplomatic status enjoyed by other ambassadors of national governments. The eurosceptic MEP was prompt to point out the European Union is not a state and "should not be treated as such". She tweeted: "The British do not want to give the EU ambassador in Brussels the same diplomatic rights as the ambassadors of European countries.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1387565/EU-news-eu-ambassador-uk-row-Joao-vale-de-Almeida-Laura-huhtasaari-mep

Laura Huhtasaari! ????

Eurosceptic, Trumper, creationist and cheater! She's for sure to be taken seriously! ????

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Huhtasaari

 

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, candide said:

Laura Huhtasaari! ????

Eurosceptic, Trumper, creationist and cheater! She's for sure to be taken seriously! ????

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Huhtasaari

 

You forgot European MEP