Advice on registering a lease on the wife's property.

[advancebooking]

A few yrs ago the wife and I purchased a small building. Its in a good position in town and will increase in price over time and be easy to sell whenever we want to. 

 

We both put some savings into the property and took a loan in her name for the rest. Month by month we take turns paying back the loan. We don't live in it at the moment but its been suggested more than once that I go and stay there to 'cool off'. I have done this a few times

 

Sometimes I feel our relationship is a bit rocky. I was thus wondering if I should take a 30 yr lease on the building and register it at the land office (ie pay the tax). If I am evicted from our marital home then at least I have somewhere to live for as long as I want. 

 

If we later divorce with a view to doing 50/ 50 on sale proceeds, can the building be legally sold if there's a registered lease in my name. Presumably it would be impossible if the lease was in someone else's name. But because it would be in my name can we simply cancel the registered lease at the land office or whatever and pay the mortgage back  and sell it no problem?

 

Finally, if I decide to do a lease I presume I can download any standard contract off the internet. Can I just put any nominal amount of monthly rent on the contract? I presume I should still pay that to her account no matter what the status of the relationship is? 

 

Any advice is appreciated. 

 

[jackdd]

Thailand Civil and Commercial Code, Section 1469:

"Any agreement (post-nuptial) concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby."

 

Making a contract with your wife now doesn't help you, she could just declare it void any time she wants, this would have to be done before being married.

Edited January 22, 2021 by jackdd

[mahjongguy]

Can it be verified that a 30-year registered lease falls within that section of law? 

 

I feel that it does not, because such a lease is not part of Contract Law, it's from the Land Act. It's not a contract between two spouses, it's an assignment of rights made by the Land Office. The only way for your wife to void it is to shoot you.   

[advancebooking]

21 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Thailand Civil and Commercial Code, Section 1469:

"Any agreement (post-nuptial) concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby."

 

Making a contract with your wife now doesn't help you, she could just declare it void any time she wants, this would have to be done before being married.

Your comments has absolutely no relevance at all to the question above. 

 

Im trying to ascertain if a property can be sold at the land office if there's an existing lease (previously registered at the land office. )

[CharlieH]

MOVED TO REAL ESTATE FORUM.

[jackdd]

18 minutes ago, advancebooking said:

Your comments has absolutely no relevance at all to the question above. 

 

Im trying to ascertain if a property can be sold at the land office if there's an existing lease (previously registered at the land office. )

  Then why did you mention this "Sometimes I feel our relationship is a bit rocky. I was thus wondering if I should take a 30 yr lease on the building and register it at the land office (ie pay the tax). If I am evicted from our marital home then at least I have somewhere to live for as long as I want."? I just informed you that such a lease with your wife doesn't protect you in any way, she could just kick you out.

Yes, you can sell a property with an active lease/usufruct.

 

18 minutes ago, mahjongguy said:

Can it be verified that a 30-year registered lease falls within that section of law? 

 

I feel that it does not, because such a lease is not part of Contract Law, it's from the Land Act. It's not a contract between two spouses, it's an assignment of rights made by the Land Office. The only way for your wife to void it is to shoot you.   

We had this discussion in another topic, and I did some research back then. There have been several supreme court cases where two Thais spouses were involved (i.e. Thai husband married with Thai wife), who transferred property to the other person, but later wanted to have this undone, and this was deemed rightful by the court under this same law. If one can undo a property ownership transfer under this law, I'm sure it's also possible to cancel a usufruct.

Edited January 22, 2021 by jackdd

[mahjongguy]

I'm happy to take your word for it, jackdd. I've haven't have to worry about that situation 'cause my partner and I aren't married.   ????

 

I do agree that a sale is legal but I can't see it happening, not unless the lease is close to expiration. Why would anyone buy a property with such an encumbrance? If there are years and years remaining, what is the value of the property? And would it matter if someone did buy it? Not unless you suspect they are murderous. So I think it's not something to lose sleep over.

[KhaoYai]

As far as I know, you can only register a Usufruct on the Chanotte. In any case, a correctly prepared Usufruct will give you far more rights than a normal lease. The Usufruct stays in place if the property owner dies and they can't sell it without your agreement for example.

[Preacher]

I believe one also cna register a lease on the chanote. But OP states that they are still paying back the loan. if the loan was secured with the chanote as collateral, as is usual, you will need permission from the money lender. As a lease or usefruct will deminish the value of the land you will not the permission.

[sanuk711]

On 1/21/2021 at 10:54 PM, advancebooking said:

Finally, if I decide to do a lease I presume I can download any standard contract off the internet. Can I just put any nominal amount of monthly rent on the contract? I presume I should still pay that to her account no matter what the status of the relationship is? 

Jackdd is 100% correct advanceB...you can not make Any Binding contract with your wife . Not only just about land/House.

 

When you think about it--this is a good law.

 

But if you brought this property when you were married --by law you own half of it.

 

section 1469 of the Civil and Commercial Code and gives both spouses the right (without grounds) to void any agreement concluded between them during marriage.