1 hour ago, puipuitom said:

The lining up to get INTO the UK is a lot longer than INTO the EU. the red tape, but especially the incompetence at British side is gigantic

Truckers Shun U.K. Ports to Avoid Brexit Red Tape - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

 

Creepy echo again!

1 hour ago, puipuitom said:

 

\According the Daily Fail, the EU will crumble  shortly. Unfortunately other - British - survey promise differently.

Eur social survey member EU.webp 147.56 kB · 2 downloads

 

Maybe a troll Mail.

27 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

 

That amount of effort for a container full of goods is one thing, but much of that paperwork is required for even the smallest shipment so is making trading unviable for some small businesses.

 

You are used to completing the paperwork, it's new to people who have only traded within the EU previously and some of them are taking time to get to grips with it.

 

It seems true that it is the small businesses are having the biggest difficulties, partly because they don't have (or can afford) the staffing, expertise and resources needed for the new exporting regime. However, the final trade agreement is still new. Of course time will be needed for SME's to adjust although many of them could have probably been better prepared (for various scenarios).. 

 

On 2/1/2021 at 6:31 PM, rasmus5150 said:

Jon Swallow realizes that leaving the EU is a bitter pill to Swallow ????

 

 This is just a starter . 

    British  economy ,  is going one way , down and down ..

 

         Eur social survey member EU.webp 147.56 kB · 2 downloads

 

      That EU survey is 8 months old, a lot has changed since then, many EU states are now at odds with the way the EU is run/

      As Maggie Thatcher tried to stress, but still the EU refused to listen.

Just now, elliss said:

 

 This is just a starter . 

    British  economy ,  is going one way , down and down ..

 

 

I'd say down a bit then up, up and away. We don't want to follow the EU.

9 hours ago, Poet said:

The EU is requiring paperwork that no other country or trading bloc has ever required. It is clearly a punitive tactic. Bureaucracy

as a weapon. No amount of education could have prepared traders for that.
 

 

The paperwork is the same as before. The same used when UK was part of the EU and was importing or exporting outside the EU. There is nothing surprising, and it was well known by the British administration as it was applying EU rules.

2 hours ago, puipuitom said:

The lining up to get INTO the UK is a lot longer than INTO the EU. the red tape, but especially the incompetence at British side is gigantic

 

Perhaps, as someone who somehow managed to post the same thing FOUR times, you should be a somewhat slower to attribute incompetence to others.

 

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

So where are my facts wrong?

You posted this ridiculous video "no no no" In response to my post that M. Thatcher was the 'mother' of the free trade bloc. “No, no, no!" summed up her negotiating strategy during the five-year struggle with her continental counterparts about Britain’s contributions to the European Community’s budget, a fight from which she was to emerge victorious in 1984. 

Quite frankly, I don't know why you posted a video on a completely different subject. It is common knowledge that she was the architect of the free trade bloc - as I have referenced twice now in this thread.

 

And for your other point - Winston Churchill is widely regarded as the father of the EU. He is even listed as one of the eleven founding fathers on the EU's website, and has a building bearing his name in the EU. Furthermore, your quoted Churchill phrase was NOT said in 1953 - it's a fake quote. It's two phrases he said almost 14 years previously that have been stitched together.

 

 

Quote

“If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea.” Churchill 1953.

 

https://neweuropeans.net/article/604/revealing-deception-about-winston-churchill
 

Quote

 

So, it’s clear that Eurosceptics have concocted this ‘Churchill quote’ by stitching together four sentences he wrote in 1930 with a remark he shouted in 1944, and then put them together to claim he said the whole lot in a speech to Parliament on 11 May 1953.  Indeed, the quote could accurately be called a ‘stitch up’.

Still not sure?  Well, you can easily check for yourself, by reading all that Churchill said to Parliament on 11 May 1953 by a look at Hansard for that day.   It is true that in the early 1950s, Churchill did not envisage the UK being part of the sort-of “United States of Europe” that he had envisioned (although, I argue that Churchill changed his position later on in the 1950s and early 1960s, when it became clearer that the British Empire and Commonwealth were in decline).

 

 

So there you have it. Your facts are not facts, they are made up quotes.

 

22 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

I'd say down a bit then up, up and away. We don't want to follow the EU.

 

     Time will tell ..

 

55 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

 

That amount of effort for a container full of goods is one thing, but much of that paperwork is required for even the smallest shipment so is making trading unviable for some small businesses.

 

You are used to completing the paperwork, it's new to people who have only traded within the EU previously and some of them are taking time to get to grips with it.

There are two crucial issues.

One is the case of SMEs, as you mention. It was very easy for them to import or export. They only had to manage conversion rates between £ and €.

The other is integrated value chains, a topic which seems to be invisible to several posters. There are two problems about it. One is that the same component may be cross the channel more than one time, I.e. sent to an EU country to be integrated in a part, then the part may be sent to UK to be integrated in a product, then the product exported, etc.. The other problem is that, unlike finished products, It's difficult to substitute a near location by a far location, because of speed and flexibility concerns (I.e. JIT production.).

33 minutes ago, elliss said:

Jon Swallow realizes that leaving the EU is a bitter pill to Swallow

         Yes he's right, but staying is more like swallowing a cyanide pill.

21 hours ago, transam said:

And why not, we can go from ham sandwiches

 

The border guards may have been a bit petty, but I'm not sure we need to call in the UN to mediate on this matter.

 

Quote

to dodgy vaccine stuff, things that you remainers are very quiet about. Plus the dodgy vaccine stuff was not the EU leaders fault, it is always somebody else.....????

 

I've seen very few people trying to defend the Commission on this issue, least of the member states. The Commission made a pig's ear of things. 

 

Quote

 

Then we have Macron, Germany's EU no.2, now looks like being taken out by M. Le Pen,

 

What point are you trying to make?

 

France is an important EU member and what happens in their domestic politics obviously impacts the EU. But what exactly do you want the EU to do about the French Presidential election?

 

".. Germany's EU no.2..." Sorry. Lost me again.

 

Quote

oh dear, seems some ripples are emerging on land as well as with fishing.....

 

????

 

Quote

But don't worry, all your click thinks the UK will be back bailing the EU out in the future.............

 

So, to paraphrase, Remainers being quiet about ham sandwiches and dodgy vaccines is an indication that we expect the UK will bail out the EU in the future?

 

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

It seems true that it is the small businesses are having the biggest difficulties, partly because they don't have (or can afford) the staffing, expertise and resources needed for the new exporting regime. However, the final trade agreement is still new. Of course time will be needed for SME's to adjust although many of them could have probably been better prepared (for various scenarios).. 

 

 

The transition period was meant to be the time when businesses adjusted their processes. However, given that the changes weren't confirmed until the last week of December, this was impossible.

 

I'll pre-empt someone mentioning Covid as an excuse. Of course, it had an impact. But then why not extend the transition period? The offer was there.

14 hours ago, Poet said:

 

Quote

We also created the single market (Thanks Margaret Thatcher) to be a part of something larger.

 

 

I don't know what YouTube channel you are getting your history from, but none of that is true.

 

 

1988 Apr 18 Mo

Margaret Thatcher

Speech opening Single Market Campaign

 

https://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/107219

 

 

 

 

 

10 hours ago, grumpy 4680 said:

          No harm in the UK getting smaller, it would save English tax payers millions in handouts, Scotland is a prime example of one nation that would not survive on its own, S

'

 

Will England be able to survive without the City of London to help counter it's balance of payments deficit ?

 

9 hours ago, 2530Ubon said:

You posted this ridiculous video "no no no" In response to my post that M. Thatcher was the 'mother' of the free trade bloc. “No, no, no!" summed up her negotiating strategy during the five-year struggle with her continental counterparts about Britain’s contributions to the European Community’s budget, a fight from which she was to emerge victorious in 1984. 

Quite frankly, I don't know why you posted a video on a completely different subject. It is common knowledge that she was the architect of the free trade bloc - as I have referenced twice now in this thread.

 

And for your other point - Winston Churchill is widely regarded as the father of the EU. He is even listed as one of the eleven founding fathers on the EU's website, and has a building bearing his name in the EU. Furthermore, your quoted Churchill phrase was NOT said in 1953 - it's a fake quote. It's two phrases he said almost 14 years previously that have been stitched together.

 

 

 

https://neweuropeans.net/article/604/revealing-deception-about-winston-churchill
 

 

So there you have it. Your facts are not facts, they are made up quotes.

 

 

This ridiculous video "no no no" shows that Thatcher became anti EEC by the end of her time as PM. The rebates were secured earlier (by 1984) and the VDO has nothing to do with that. She was not the 'mother' of the 'free trade bloc' (whatever that is) but she did promote the Single Market. 

 

Churchill is certainly not widely regarded as the father of the EU although did he promote the united European idea (for continental Europe), try Monnet and Spaak instead.

 

The quote is just a quote. Who vets them? Oh, I know.

 

 

14 hours ago, grumpy 4680 said:

    Can't wait for the Netherlands wanting to get out too, when it starts to cost them

For the Netherlands its actually still a good deal. Most of are far more international orientated and les nationalistic then the Brits. So doubt it will change support of the EU is good (but with people complaining) But nobody would ever think of leaving even the stupidest Dutch can see its an economic disaster. 

16 hours ago, RayC said:

 

The border guards may have been a bit petty, but I'm not sure we need to call in the UN to mediate on this matter.

 

 

I've seen very few people trying to defend the Commission on this issue, least of the member states. The Commission made a pig's ear of things. 

 

 

What point are you trying to make?

 

France is an important EU member and what happens in their domestic politics obviously impacts the EU. But what exactly do you want the EU to do about the French Presidential election?

 

".. Germany's EU no.2..." Sorry. Lost me again.

 

 

????

 

 

So, to paraphrase, Remainers being quiet about ham sandwiches and dodgy vaccines is an indication that we expect the UK will bail out the EU in the future?

 

Think you are missing some of your clubs input.....

Your club reckons the UK will apply to rejoin the EU, the UK ploughed huge amounts into the EU.

So, the UK will bail out the EU with cash your hands out countries cannot, if what your club reckons comes true...????...

 

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

This ridiculous video "no no no" shows that Thatcher became anti EEC by the end of her time as PM. The rebates were secured earlier (by 1984) and the VDO has nothing to do with that. She was not the 'mother' of the 'free trade bloc' (whatever that is) but she did promote the Single Market. 

 

Churchill is certainly not widely regarded as the father of the EU although did he promote the united European idea (for continental Europe), try Monnet and Spaak instead.

 

The quote is just a quote. Who vets them? Oh, I know.

 

Ok, then please tell the EU that Winston wasn't a founder. Everyone else seems to think he is. The quote is not just a quote, Its fake news. If you're going to argue about something, at least make sure your quoting real things. It's the same as referencing harry potter to prove that magic is real. Why is it brexiteers are so lazy and cavalier with facts?

 

The free trade bloc is the single market. How do you not know that?

 

 

9 minutes ago, robblok said:

For the Netherlands its actually still a good deal. Most of are far more international orientated and les nationalistic then the Brits. So doubt it will change support of the EU is good (but with people complaining) But nobody would ever think of leaving even the stupidest Dutch can see its an economic disaster. 

Has the Dutch got a government yet....Just in case you have a crisis.....?................

5 hours ago, 2530Ubon said:

 

Ok, then please tell the EU that Winston wasn't a founder. Everyone else seems to think he is. The quote is not just a quote, Its fake news. If you're going to argue about something, at least make sure your quoting real things. It's the same as referencing harry potter to prove that magic is real. Why is it brexiteers are so lazy and cavalier with facts?

 

The free trade bloc is the single market. How do you not know that?

 

 

"Why is it Brexiteers are lazy and cavalier with facts"....

Now isn't that statement fact-less....?

 

6 minutes ago, transam said:

Has the Dutch got a government yet....Just in case you have a crisis.....?................

We still have a government in place that does things till elections are settled. Does that not work the same the world around. The old government goes on until a new one is elected ?

 

But there wont be much change in the new government as the biggest party stays the biggest so no real changes int he book. But just for your info our biggest party is far smaller then your non winning party. So there is always a coalition of parties. That is why we never get what we want 100% and are used to compromise. Helps a lot with feeling at home in the EU if you are used to compromise and dont put much on self-importance. 

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

We still have a government in place that does things till elections are settled. Does that not work the same the world around. The old government goes on until a new one is elected ?

 

But there wont be much change in the new government as the biggest party stays the biggest so no real changes int he book. But just for your info our biggest party is far smaller then your non winning party. So there is always a coalition of parties. That is why we never get what we want 100% and are used to compromise. Helps a lot with feeling at home in the EU if you are used to compromise and dont put much on self-importance. 

A laid back attitude you mean.....Run the country with a laid back attitude....Oh well.....

5 hours ago, transam said:

"Why is it Brexiteers are lazy and cavalier with facts"....

Now isn't that statement fact-less....?

 

 

It is not even questionable that Brexiteers are lazy and cavalier with facts - It has been proven true. The mastermind of Brexit himself - Dominic Cummings admitted that they won Brexit by feeding the public a bunch of lies such as the 350m a week to the NHS. Boris lying through his teeth that he had an oven ready deal - His deal was almost IDENTICAL to May's - he just changed the language around the backstop to avoid a hard border with Ireland. Look how that worked out when the EU brought in a hard border for a few hours over the vaccine debacle. Claiming he delivered Brexit, when it was May who triggered article 50. Gove claiming the 'union' between UK, Scotland, Wales etc would be stronger after Brexit, overspending and illegally hiding and spending more money on the campaign than allowed, racist campaigning.

 

The list goes on. And on. And on...

53 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

 

Ok, then please tell the EU that Winston wasn't a founder. Everyone else seems to think he is. The quote is not just a quote, Its fake news. If you're going to argue about something, at least make sure your quoting real things. It's the same as referencing harry potter to prove that magic is real. Why is it brexiteers are so lazy and cavalier with facts?

 

The free trade bloc is the single market. How do you not know that?

 

 

 

 

OK I'll tell them. I can't remember anyone else on here ever suggesting that Winston Churchill was a founding father of the EU. The Council of Europe is not part of the EU and never was. The quote is a quote, it may be as erroneous as yours may be too. 

 

The Single Market did not commence until 1992 and it is far more than just the European free trade bloc I referred to, which was actually EFTA (1960).  How did you not know that?

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

 

OK I'll tell them. I can't remember anyone else on here ever suggesting that Winston Churchill was a founding father of the EU. The Council of Europe is not part of the EU and never was. The quote is a quote, it may be as erroneous as yours may be too. 

 

The Single Market did not commence until 1992 and it is far more than just the European free trade bloc I referred to, which was actually EFTA (1960).  How did you not know that?

The quote is NOT a quote. It's a fake quote. I'm a bit surprised that hard brexiteers aren't more angry that folks are putting words in the great Churchill's mouth.

 

The single market commenced on January 1st 1993, how did you not know that?

 

In the 1980s, when the economy of the EEC began to lag behind the rest of the developed world, Margaret Thatcher sent Arthur Cockfield, Baron Cockfield, to the Delors Commission to take the initiative to attempt to relaunch the common market. Cockfield wrote and published a White Paper in 1985 identifying 300 measures to be addressed in order to complete a single market. The White Paper was well received and led to the adoption of the Single European Act, a treaty which reformed the decision-making mechanisms of the EEC. In the end, it was launched on 1 January 1993.

 

Jeez .... how many more times are you gonna be wrong?

16 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

 

That amount of effort for a container full of goods is one thing, but much of that paperwork is required for even the smallest shipment so is making trading unviable for some small businesses.

 

You are used to completing the paperwork, it's new to people who have only traded within the EU previously and some of them are taking time to get to grips with it.

 

Ahhh, change, when will it ever stop?  OK, I will further enlighten those that don’t ship or trade with foreign countries with the following.

 

That 2-3 hours of paperwork for export and 1-2 hours for import was for my first shipments 11 years ago. All I have to do now is change the dates, weights, container No. and seal number on the BoL ….an exasperating 10 minutes.

 

A little bit more work on import because the products I export change every shipment so on the packing list I may have to change some of those items too. Now down to 30 minutes on that side. If you are trading in the same products then again all you have to do is change the dates on the packing list and Invoice….again 10 minutes.

 

What you are describing is LCL and airfreight in which case IncoDocs is available on the internet and is easy. Thankfully I’m in Thailand where nothing is a challenge and too much work.

 

No one won or lost with the decision to leave the EU, there will undoubtedly be some negative impact, Do I care? No. I wasn’t in the UK at the time of the vote and was too busy running a company to get involved with politics.

 

This ‘we were right you were wrong’ conversation is ok up to the point where those that lost the football match go home and spend the next 4 years wishing that the ball gets a puncture to spite the other team.

 

I’ll be trading with the EU, the UK and the Far East this year and achieving something regardless of any negative impact from leaving the EU. It’s called moving on.

5 minutes ago, DaLa said:

A little bit more work on import because the products I export change every shipment so on the packing list I may have to change some of those items too. Now down to 30 minutes on that side. If you are trading in the same products then again all you have to do is change the dates on the packing list and Invoice….again 10 minutes.

 

What you are describing is LCL and airfreight in which case IncoDocs is available on the internet and is easy. Thankfully I’m in Thailand where nothing is a challenge and too much work.

 

No one won or lost with the decision to leave the EU, there will undoubtedly be some negative impact, Do I care? No. I wasn’t in the UK at the time of the vote and was too busy running a company to get involved with politics.

 

Incodocs is for invoicing. Pretty useless when your exporting dairy products and need to pay 180 GBP per consignment for a certificate from a vet.

 

Your company obviously isn't exporting from the UK to the EU. Massive delays in shipping, plus shipping costs, VAT and TAX. Some businessess have given up completely and shut down.

 

There is an obvious loss to the UK side - 86.6% of our economy is services based. There is no deal in place for our services sector. Therefore all of the banks, insurance companies etc have been leaving London and headquartering in the EU.

 

For shipping/freight/exporting companies there is an even bigger loss. TIME & MONEY. EU companies are now at an advantage throughout the EU, because they don't have the extra shipping costs. They don't have to have all of their shipments checked. People in the UK have stopped buying products from the EU and vice versa due to the increase in costs and increase in time.

am going to take 30 seconds of my time.... the first ones to complain about Brexit were the fisherman and they voted for it, then the ones on the financial sector, then the ones on the transportation sector, then the ones on the packing/processing sector and today another one.