On 2/5/2021 at 8:46 AM, candide said:

Nice to see you acknowledging that the EU trade deals have been designed taking into account UK's best interest! ????

 

Some deals may not be simply cut and paste (they are often shorter versions) but the content is not significantly different, and sometimes a bit worse (Japan deal). For the time being, freedom of negotiating agreements has not brought additional benefits. "Same same before"!

 

15 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Please do hold your breath. I hold my reply and we’ll see who folds first. 

Above is my original post in the conversation you joined, which includes my original statement.

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Which probably explains the UK Government begging for an extension of grace.

 

Quit with your gaslighting, Brexit is a mess.

Why should there not be an extension for what are exactly the same products? Nothing changed from one day to the next, except the EU implementation of their rules when it suits them. The U.K. is being much more pragmatic about things. 

Brexit is actually going good, contrary to Remainer claims.  If the EU jobsworths did not make a nuisance of themselves, none of you would have anything to continue moaning about. 

 

So we are subjected to a constant bombardment of Remainer propaganda and speculation, but you think I am ‘gaslighting’? Brexit is not a mess and will not be the disaster you all hoped for. 

55 minutes ago, candide said:

 

Above is my original post in the conversation you joined, which includes my original statement.

Well you didn’t hold your breath for very long did you?

26 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Well you didn’t hold your breath for very long did you?

And your reply is?

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

<snip>Nothing changed from one day to the next, except the EU implementation of their rules when it suits them. <Snip>

EU are applying rules when they are applicable. Makes sense.

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Why should there not be an extension for what are exactly the same products? Nothing changed from one day to the next, except the EU implementation of their rules when it suits them. The U.K. is being much more pragmatic about things. 

As you know, the U.K. is not more pragmatic. It's just unable to implement all of the new rules now, and needs 6 months to do so.

 

There are three key dates for the introduction of border controls: 1 January, 1 April and 1 July.

https://www.hfw.com/Transitioning-to-new-border-arrangements-EU-UK-trade-from-1-January-2021

On 2/5/2021 at 5:09 AM, Tofer said:

 

Take those blinkers off and read / listen to the news, and you'll find out.

 

For instance, since you asked, and let's see if you can take the facts with more grace than a certain 49'r, Cadbury's are moving their production of Dairy Milk products from Germany to UK along with a £15M investment and further investment in modernisation of the UK production plants.

 

But don't let a bit of good news spoil your sulking and pessimists pity party...

 

 

If this story had been the other way round, i.e. if Cadburys were moving production to EU countries, it would have been all over mainstream media and the remainers would have been beside themselves with excitement ????

 

 

18 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

If this story had been the other way round, i.e. if Cadburys were moving production to EU countries, it would have been all over mainstream media and the remainers would have been beside themselves with excitement ????

 

 

It is all over the main stream media that Cadbury is moving part of its production back to Birmingham. What is your point?

3 hours ago, Loiner said:

A few minor hiccups. A lot of Remainer hysteria. 

I look at it a little different.   First, the campaign for leave kept on saying how rosy everything was going to be...no talk of periods of adjustment, how a global Britain was going to set the world on fire with regards to trade.   So when things get badly botched up (you can say there are 'minor issues' but it is 'major' for those currently with business at risk -- and those that work for them). 

There is a pattern developing here. 

• Services industry (including financial industry) is currently out of luck with regards to all EU business (if they cannot come to country by country arrangements - it is out of the global trade)...  That means the Financial Industry which is far larger than the domestic UK market is worth... as it stands now will have to shrink (maybe not a bust but it will have to 'right-size' over a period of time [don't know how many years]). The financial industry was first oversized because of the reaches of the Empire,  after the second world war the Empire is no more but then the UK joined the European Market in saved it from having to right-size... now it will likely have to shrink to fit the size of the market they are in.  How much of the UK services industry and how much of it was based on EU trade is yet to be determined (UK had a surplus in services, a deficit in goods trade - the agreement favours goods - so it at best favours the EU strengths)
• Small businesses (from one person to a few people; lots of them exist - i.e. in the millions of people)...  may be locked out of the EU market because the cost of dealing with administration will be considerable.  (Bojo says they should move to Europe... and setup another business on the other end - that is a considerable additional expense)....  this is another pattern that is developing....  If you are selling goods, but sourcing materials outside of the EU/UK to more than I think 30%... the trade agreement does not really help (easier in the domestic market as once the 'inputs' are imported the calculation of foreign content is only needed for international trade outside of the country or trading block)
• Larger businesses have the size and experience with international trade to non-EU countries - so they are the least likely to be affected.   They already have systems and processes in place to provide everything that is necessary... Some will be helped (if they were close to the foreign content percent then adjusting could be beneficial - but that would be a business decision that they will have to make - which plants increase and which ones decrease in size)... Some will be hurt... but it is way too early to know how it will turn out in the long run.  Unfortunately Large manufacturing based businesses make up a fraction of the UK economy.

 

 

Oh dear! 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/06/fury-at-gove-as-exports-to-eu-slashed-by-68-since-brexit

Fury at Gove as exports to EU slashed by 68% since Brexit

Hauliers say Cabinet Office minister ignored warnings, amid fears that worse is to come with introduction of import checks in July

5 minutes ago, partington said:

Fury at Gove as exports to EU slashed by 68% since Brexit

 

Quote

Burnett told the Observer that in addition to the 68% fall-off in exports, about 65%-75% of vehicles that had come over from the EU were going back empty because there were no goods for them to return with, due to hold-ups on the UK side, and because some UK companies had either temporarily or permanently halted exports to the EU. “I find it deeply frustrating and annoying that ministers have chosen not to listen to the industry and experts,” he said.

But it is all the EUs fault because.... of ... ?

7 hours ago, Loiner said:

Why should there not be an extension for what are exactly the same products? Nothing changed from one day to the next, except the EU implementation of their rules when it suits them. The U.K. is being much more pragmatic about things.

 

 

What changed is the the UK left the EU, but also said it didn't want to be bound  by EU rules and standards. Therefore everything that comes from the UK has to be  checked and needs paperwork - you wouldn't want the EU to abandon it's sovereignty would you ?

 

We also left the customs union and when goods cross a customs boarder they need paperwork - it's in the WTO rules.

 

UK is being "pragmatic" because it's not ready yet - it's only had 4 years to get ready ! (and incidentally breaking WTO rules doing so)    

8 hours ago, Loiner said:

Why should there not be an extension for what are exactly the same products? Nothing changed from one day to the next, except the EU implementation of their rules when it suits them. The U.K. is being much more pragmatic about things. 

Brexit is actually going good, contrary to Remainer claims.  If the EU jobsworths did not make a nuisance of themselves, none of you would have anything to continue moaning about. 

 

So we are subjected to a constant bombardment of Remainer propaganda and speculation, but you think I am ‘gaslighting’? Brexit is not a mess and will not be the disaster you all hoped for. 

Has it occurred to you that while a member of the EU, the UK played a part in establishing the EU rules and regulations for trade with none EU nations and as such knew exactly what a mess they were marching into? - A Brexit mess of Brexit’s own making.

On 2/3/2021 at 2:28 PM, candide said:

Not granting diplomatic status to the EU representative is surely the best way to get a positive reply! ????

or simply "no reply" 

 

the normal discussion channels are inexistant, in return for refusing normal ambassador statute, the U.K.’s new ambassador in Brussels (called " British Head of Mission to the European Union") Lindsay Croisdale-Appleby cannot start working

 

Quote

he does not yet technically occupy this position, as he has still not been able to present his letter of credence due to the refusal of the EU to receive his credentials so long as the UK will not grant full ambassadorial status to the EU's representative in the UK

 

 

 

Quote

Why did London downgrade the status of the EU’s ambassador in Britain, a seemingly gratuitous display of diplomatic pettiness that has led to retaliatory snubbing of the U.K.’s new ambassador in Brussels?

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-bad-blood-eu-uk-vaccines/

11 hours ago, Loiner said:

A few minor hiccups. A lot of Remainer hysteria. 

Meanwhile on Sky News......

 

No, I don't accept those figures

 

Sorry that is simply not correct

 

These are estimates and we need to wait to see the final figures

 

The actual figure is a 10% increase when calculated correctly

 

It depends what you take as a starting point

 

Yes, but we have vaccinated 10 million people

 

This has been done to ease congestion at the ports

 

 

 

 

 

Actual quote from the government.....just read it online......“We do not recognise the figure provided on exports. 

41 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

or simply "no reply" 

 

the normal discussion channels are inexistant, in return for refusing normal ambassador statute, the U.K.’s new ambassador in Brussels (called " British Head of Mission to the European Union") Lindsay Croisdale-Appleby cannot start working

 

 

 

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-bad-blood-eu-uk-vaccines/

An excellent article HfF outlying the tasks ahead for both the UK and the EU 

5 minutes ago, bannork said:

An excellent article HfF outlying the tasks ahead for both the UK and the EU 

Yes...just read something very similar in the Express........555.....only joking.

 

Express headline (made up)....."Boris explodes and gives Brussels a serious drubbing".

9 hours ago, stevenl said:

EU are applying rules when they are applicable. Makes sense.

 No, they are applying punishment tactics, a clear display of their bitterness, and fear of the UK succeeding.

 

The EU are happy to try to circumnavigate the rules when it suits them, e.g. the rules of business related to the covid vaccines.....

Regarding visas for UK musicians wanting to tour in EU countries, the EU offered UK discussions on "additional mobility chapters" for freedom of movement for selected groups, not just musicians & performers but also pensioners, au pairs, students & specific sectors.

 

Discussions between EU & UK on a reciprocal freedom of movement agreement for academic researchers also reached a more advanced stage but ultimately the UK govt was not prepared to drop its political commitment to ending freedom of movement for EU citizens.

17 minutes ago, bannork said:

Regarding visas for UK musicians wanting to tour in EU countries, the EU offered UK discussions on "additional mobility chapters" for freedom of movement for selected groups, not just musicians & performers but also pensioners, au pairs, students & specific sectors.

 

Discussions between EU & UK on a reciprocal freedom of movement agreement for academic researchers also reached a more advanced stage but ultimately the UK govt was not prepared to drop its political commitment to ending freedom of movement for EU citizens.

I have heard that the remainer band 'Yes' in protest are to change their name to 'Oui'.

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

I have heard that the remainer band 'Yes' in protest are to change their name to 'Oui'.

...and their first release......"Don't look back in anger"?

8 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

...and their first release......"Don't look back in anger"?

B side......."So long, Farewell"?

2 hours ago, bannork said:

An excellent article HfF outlying the tasks ahead for both the UK and the EU 

you are an optimist

 

these last years have only be worse and worse from Cameron, to May and then to Johnson the UK went from tory conservatism to national populism.

 

 

 

 

Now the UK grabbed up covid-19 vaccines faster than the EU could do (bold move), it is crystal clear we are not in a mutual win anymore, but at best in a zero sum game.

 

Let's not kid ourselves, this means more deaths in our countries, not to mention the English covid-19 variant will become dominant.

 

Quote

There are good reasons to think that tension between the UK and the EU is not a passing phase, but the new normal.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/02/vaccine-rows-spats-eu-uk-competitor

 

 

 

As a consequence, the EU sees Britain as a third country and competitor, at best "half-friend" at worst "half enemy".

 

Basically our governments are now adopting the mirror image of the way the UK government sees the EU instead of being naïve.

 

Tit for tat

 

 

.

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

you are an optimist

 

these last years have only be worse and worse from Cameron, to May and then to Johnson the UK went from tory conservatism to national populism.

 

 

 

 

Now the UK grabbed up covid-19 vaccines faster than the EU could do (bold move), it is crystal clear we are not in a mutual win anymore, but at best in a zero sum game.

 

Let's not kid ourselves, this means more deaths in our countries, not to mention the English covid-19 variant will become dominant.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/02/vaccine-rows-spats-eu-uk-competitor

 

 

 

As a consequence, the EU sees Britain as a third country and competitor, at best "half-friend" at worst "half enemy".

 

Basically our governments are now adopting the mirror image of the way the UK government sees the EU instead of being naïve.

 

Tit for tat

You've got the hump that your country has covid jabed only 3,000,000 or so and the UK  have jabed 11,400,000.

Well that's tough you can only blame the EU the club your countries in. 

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

You've got the hump that your country has covid jabed only 3,000,000 or so and the UK  have jabed 11,400,000.

Well that's tough you can only blame the EU the club your countries in. 

I sincerely  hope that giving Astrazenica to the 65+  will not turn out to be become a waste of lives and vaccin.

I prefer the "safety" first attitude of the EU, over the Tory "we are number one for vaccinations" attitude.

4 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

I sincerely  hope that giving Astrazenica to the 65+  will not turn out to be become a waste of lives and vaccin.

I prefer the "safety" first attitude of the EU, over the Tory "we are number one for vaccinations" attitude.

It's not what you prefer, it's what the EU tells you you can have.

They kept pestering the EU for over 4 years, they've been out 3 weeks and now they want to sign up for an other 

2 years! "Love is in the air ....la la la..".

7 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Has it occurred to you that while a member of the EU, the UK played a part in establishing the EU rules and regulations for trade with none EU nations and as such knew exactly what a mess they were marching into? - A Brexit mess of Brexit’s own making.

Moreover, the U.K. was already applying these rules to trade with non-EU countries.

6 hours ago, Hi from France said:

or simply "no reply" 

 

the normal discussion channels are inexistant, in return for refusing normal ambassador statute, the U.K.’s new ambassador in Brussels (called " British Head of Mission to the European Union") Lindsay Croisdale-Appleby cannot start working

 

 

 

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-bad-blood-eu-uk-vaccines/

Difficult to be more stupid!

The trade deal needs a lot of coordination and follow-up, and there are still crucial issues to solve and negotiate, such as the case of services (80% of UK economy). And instead of trying to facilitate this process, the first idea they have is to refuse diplomatic status to the EU representative.

Who talked about being pragmatic?