Open bank account, apply O visa (for retirement) in Bangkok vs. Phuket

[Surelynot]

On 2/7/2021 at 3:47 AM, oldcpu said:

I recommend as much as possible, you use a bank account in Province/city where you ultimately plan to stay. 

100%

[SEAsia Traveler]

20 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Are you considering at a later stage to apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa and subsequent 1-year extension?

Considering but would like to use covid extensions as long as possible before deciding where I want to stay long-term. 

[SEAsia Traveler]

Update

 

I decided to go for the non-O visa for retirement in Phuket using the funds in bank method. But I ran into a problem (described further below) and now I’m under consideration for a covid extension.

 

First, I applied for a 30-day extension and a certificate of residence at immigration and obtained both in about one hour. Next, to Bangkok Bank Central Floresta branch and opened a savings account about 1 hour 15 minutes. The bank asked for my certificate of residence and ASQ quarantine certificate and made copies of both. I signed several documents, set up mobile app and debit card passwords, got a passbook, debit card, and accident insurance certificate. Very productive half-day.

 

1,900 baht for 30-day extension

300 for certificate of residence (later I learned this document should be free?)

500 bank deposit

100 account opening fee

599 yearly fee

5,900 mandatory 1-year accident insurance policy

1,400 taxi fare

 

A few days later I transferred USD from Schwab to Transferwise, then from Transferwise to BKK Bank.

 

$0 USD for Schwab wire transfer (3 free domestic wires per year)

$5.34 for Transferwise to receive Schwab dollars

$160 for Transferwise to send 800k baht to BKK Bank

 

I *SAVED* about $1,140 USD with the better exchange rate from Transferwise. Thank you Peter Denis and Tanoshi for the information about how to use Transferwise.

 

A few days later the bank manager called to verify the transfer and offered to produce the paperwork for the visa application. The following week I went to the bank and obtained a letter, statement and updated passbook. 

 

When I applied for the visa (that same day), the man outside room 103 at immigration had a problem with the bank statement. He said the bank statement (all the documents in fact) must be dated the current day and show the balance as of the current day. I returned to the bank and the manager told me the bank statement can only be dated the previous day (because the current day is still open) and can only show the account balance as of the last transaction date. She offered to speak to immigration and gave me her phone number. I went back to immigration and the man outside room 103 would only give me a phone number for the bank to call. It was getting late, so I decided to apply for a covid extension at that point. This was two days ago, 24 March.

 

100 baht for bank letter

100 baht for bank statement

1,900 for covid extension

1,000 baht for driver

 

When I opened the bank account, the manager encouraged me to return after obtaining the non-O visa to set up additional banking privileges (and she wants to pitch me on their health insurance offering). Apparently, I would need those additional banking privileges to transfer funds out of the country. Is that correct? Otherwise my only option is to pull the baht out of ATM? And are those additional banking privileges permanent, or only as long as the non-O visa and/or extension are valid? I expect I would get fleeced on the exchange rate whatever way I chose to move baht back into USD.

 

I will give the non-O visa another try, but that Thai fellow outside room 103 left a bad taste in my mouth. (Can I apply for a non-O visa on a covid extension?)

[Tanoshi]

39 minutes ago, SEAsia Traveler said:

When I applied for the visa (that same day), the man outside room 103 at immigration had a problem with the bank statement. He said the bank statement (all the documents in fact) must be dated the current day and show the balance as of the current day.

Theoretically it should be either an updated Passbook, or bank statement, but it appears more and more IO's are requesting both.

Yes, some IO's insist the financial proof must be dated the same day as the application.

The standard letter will be dated the day of issue.

The Passbook can be updated on the day and will carry the balance forward to the said date.

The statement will have the current date of issue at the top, but will only show the last transaction. If your IO are insisting the balance on the statement must be same day, then before requesting any documents, deposit 100 baht into the account - wait 10 minutes, then request the letter, statement, Passbook update.

The statement will now show the 100 baht deposit and balance for that day.

 

47 minutes ago, SEAsia Traveler said:

When I opened the bank account, the manager encouraged me to return after obtaining the non-O visa to set up additional banking privileges (and she wants to pitch me on their health insurance offering). Apparently, I would need those additional banking privileges to transfer funds out of the country. Is that correct?

Nonsense.

Tell her you already have Health Insurance and it has to be from of of Immigrations Thai approved Insurers - which they are not one of.

[SEAsia Traveler]

3 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

 

The statement will have the current date of issue at the top, but will only show the last transaction.

 

The letter and passbook were updated 24/03/2021, but the statement was dated 12/03/2021 - 23/03/2021. The manager said it could not be dated 24/03/2021 (the day produced) because that business day was still open. 

 

When I return to the bank I will ask the manager to call immigration, better yet before I return to the bank, and see what can be done.

[SEAsia Traveler]

14 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

If your IO are insisting the balance on the statement must be same day, then before requesting any documents, deposit 100 baht into the account - wait 10 minutes, then request the letter, statement, Passbook update.

The statement will now show the 100 baht deposit and balance for that day.

 

My sense is that the statement (they way they're doing it) would have to be run the following day to show this transaction. But I will offer this idea to the bank. Thank you.

[lopburi3]

1 hour ago, SEAsia Traveler said:

599 yearly fee

5,900 mandatory 1-year accident insurance policy

?  A 599 fee would be for special ATM card (likely with insurance) which is not required.  Most cards have a 200 baht yearly fee.

Quote

Never heard of accident insurance and is not part of a normal account set up.

Looks like I read wrong and the insurance was not a bank change - sorry.

Edited March 26, 2021 by lopburi3
Clarify insurance

[Tanoshi]

8 hours ago, SEAsia Traveler said:

The letter and passbook were updated 24/03/2021, but the statement was dated 12/03/2021 - 23/03/2021. The manager said it could not be dated 24/03/2021 (the day produced) because that business day was still open. 

That is not true.

They can change the date parameters from 6 months previously to the current date.

I'm also with Bangkok Bank and my statements are dated the same day I request it.

 

Set up online banking, which you can do from an ATM and you'll see what I mean.

Of course the statement will only only show the date of the last transaction, but it should be dated the same day as requested. Any half wit should realise any discrepancy in the date of the last transaction and the date of issue is because their was no activity between those dates.

 

The balance on the letter, your Passbook and the statement should all match.

 

Example my online today:

 

Savings Account
Account Summary - As of 26 Mar 2021
Account Nickname XXXX XXXXXXXXX   Ledger Balance 107,376.08 Account Number XXXXXXXXXXXXX Available Balance 107,376.08

 

Select a Transaction Date Range(from within the last 6 months)

From To

Edited March 26, 2021 by Tanoshi

[LivingNThailand]

Having just received my 6th visa extension in Phuket - I feel your pain.   

First - the statement date and the letter date do not have to be the same, only the balance needs to be the same.  The dates should be as close as possible.  When you go for your annual extension Bangkok Bank has to get the 12-month statement from the head office.  It takes 7-10 days and the date on the statement is the date you apply for the statement.

For example:  I applied for the statement on March 1, 2021 - date on the statement.  The nice manager at Floresta gave me a call on March 9 and told me that the statement was in.  March 10 I went in and picked up the statement, got a letter, updated my bank book so the date on the letter and bank book was the same and then made copies of my bank book for the past 12 months.  On March 11 I went in and got my extension.

The year prior when I converted to combo method to money in bank method I went to room 103 and ask the smiley guy if the statement and letter has to be the same.  He told me not same, but close.  They KNOW in room 103 that the statement and letter date cannot be the same because of Bangkok Bank's outdated computer system.

Second - I'm not a doctor, but the smiley guy in the front has some sort of personality disorder.  I've sat in that hot little waiting area and watched him for six years giving everyone (not just you) a hard time.  Unfortunately he's not going away and you just have to put up with it (hopefully 1 time a year.)

 

For your current situation.  I don't know your deadline, but can you go back in a week or so and start over.  Take a deep breath and be very polite to the smiley guy.  If that doesn't work you can also ask for an appointment with one of the guys in the office, say you have some questions.  They have to talk to you.  They have been unreasonably nice this year to everyone because there is no crowds.  Try to ask for the guy that sits on the left, he speaks better English, but the guy by the window is the senior officer (I think)  There is also the volunteers, but they usually refer you back to room 103.  They don't know much about the retirement but that is also an option.

 

Some other advise:  

 

1. Get on-line banking (I had to wait until I got my visa, but some people said they didn't

 

2. Keep all your expired bank books.  (and expired passports)  If you want to wire money out of the country you need to prove that you brought it into the country.  It's an anti-money laundering  thing.  Better yet, the original transfer, I didn't know so I don't have mine.

 

3.  You do not have to buy insurance from the bank or any of their weird investment programs.   It is not necessary. (don't worry, I bought a accident insurance policy my first year)

 

4.  ATM fee is 200 baht a year.  You shouldn't have any other charges.

 

This is good advise.  

"If your IO are insisting the balance on the statement must be same day, then before requesting any documents, deposit 100 baht into the account - wait 10 minutes, then request the letter, statement, Passbook update.

The statement will now show the 100 baht deposit and balance for that day."

 

Hope this helps.

[LivingNThailand]

21 hours ago, SEAsia Traveler said:

He said the bank statement (all the documents in fact) must be dated the current day and show the balance as of the current day. I returned to the bank and the manager told me the bank statement can only be dated the previous day (because the current day is still open) and can only show the account balance as of the last transaction date.

I had a thought to get around this initial Non-O problem with the date -- as this shouldn't be a problem, but apparently it is.  (Sorry, I originally thought you had the non-O and were trying to get an annual extension.)  

 

what about this - 

 

You go to the bank and get the letter one day and update your book and go back the next day and get the statement.  Two trips and a little bit more money.   

You shouldn't have to do that though.

 

I just looked at my bank paperwork.

 

*Annual statement from head office all dated March 1, 2021

 

*Mini -statement I get from Phuket branch for 1 month for the period Feb 1-March 8, 2021  (just CYA because there is a 7-10 day gap between statement and letter  I do it because I'm a little paranoid)  Dated March 9 -  but the statement period ends March 8.  

 

*Letter - dated March 9

I went to immigration 2 days later March 11.   They give you a week for the bank docs in Phuket, but I wouldn't wait too long after you get the docs.

 

I do remember from the past that if you make a deposit same day as statement then the statement and bank balance will not be the same.  the statement posts the amount at the end of the day.  I had to go back once because of this.   <deleted> me off, but what can you do.

 

I can understand if the balances don't match you will get rejected.  All three balances have to match, but the date shouldn't and as I mentioned before they know this about Bangkok Bank at immigration.  Most Americans use BB because of social security.

 

Got a little wordy today, but I hope I help.  There is always something.  This year I forgot to make a copy of the front page of the bank book, the one with my name.  Luckily I had the book with me and I got a copy in a couple of minutes.

 

Good luck.  Keep us posted.

[LosLobo]

Looks like the bank signed you up for their Rabbit Debit Card hence the 599 baht fee.

 

Personally their Mastercard Debit Card is cheaper and universally accepted.

 

The bank also unnecessarily signed you up for their Personal Accident VIP Insurance @5900 baht.

 

Remember TIT! (This is Thailand)

 

Apply for telephone banking, it is handy to get an SMS when funds hit your account.

 

You should also apply at the bank for Local Internet Banking.

 

You can also try to sign up for International Internet Banking but it is very descriptive about what funds you can repatriate from Thailand.

 

I suggest you discuss this with the bank.

 

DeeMoney is an easier platform for repatriation of funds and has a better exchange rate.

 

Many westerners think that normal Thai bank accounts are a two way street with transfers and when they physically repatriate to their home country they have been unable to also repatriate their bank funds.

 

Luckily, I had a Paypal account (with exorbitant fees) linked to my BangkokBank account. ????
 

Edited March 27, 2021 by LosLobo

[LosLobo]

On 3/26/2021 at 3:58 PM, SEAsia Traveler said:

"A few days later I transferred USD from Schwab to Transferwise, then from Transferwise to BKK Bank.

 

$0 USD for Schwab wire transfer (3 free domestic wires per year)

$5.34 for Transferwise to receive Schwab dollars

$160 for Transferwise to send 800k baht to BKK Bank

 

I *SAVED* about $1,140 USD with the better exchange rate from Transferwise. Thank you Peter Denis and Tanoshi for the information about how to use Transferwise.

 

Based on current FX rates I think you may have possibly only broken even in the transaction.

 

By your post you did the transaction early in March and there has been an increase in the USD/Baht conversion since.

 

But the differential between Bangkok Bank and Transferwise's FX rates would be proportional over the period.

 

REMEMBER THERE IS A BREAK EVEN POINT WHEN COMPARING TRANSFERWISE VS BANGKOKBANK TRANSACTIONS.

 

Bangkok Bank only charges a maximum of 500 baht in FX fees!

Edited March 27, 2021 by LosLobo

[SEAsia Traveler]

On Friday I will return to immigration to get my covid extension stamp. Once I get the stamp, I will attempt to enter room 103 to ask about the bank documentation for the non-O visa application.

 

Any advice about how to navigate past the smiley guy outside? And how to frame the conversation once inside? Something like "I tried before with these papers..." and show the earlier bank documents?

 

I have the bank manger's phone number, and if they would call her, maybe I could do the non-O application that same afternoon. How early could I apply for non-O with a two month covid extension? Would I be 'under consideration' for weeks or would I get the non-O fairly quickly? (same day possible?)

 

Thanks for the advice everyone.

[SEAsia Traveler]

15 minutes ago, SEAsia Traveler said:

Something like "I tried before with these papers..." and show the earlier bank documents?

 

maybe I could do the non-O application that same afternoon

 

I realize that I need to return to the bank and get new papers. But I hope to get clarity inside room 103 about what was "wrong" with the earlier papers. Could be a challenge with the language barrier. I could see them misunderstanding that I'm trying to use the earlier papers again.

 

Maybe I should first ask them what is required, and then show the earlier bank papers. "This ok mai?"

Edited March 30, 2021 by SEAsia Traveler

[ubonjoe]

44 minutes ago, SEAsia Traveler said:

How early could I apply for non-O with a two month covid extension? Would I be 'under consideration' for weeks or would I get the non-O fairly quickly? (same day possible?)

You can apply for a non-o visa at immigration at any time during the 60 day extension up to the last 15 days of it.

You would not get a under consideration stamp. That is why you need at least 15 days remaining on the extension.

Requirement for the application is here. https://bangkokimmigration.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/08-edit_NON-O.pdf

[LivingNThailand]

This is just an idea:  I think you can go to room 103, be super polite, and ask for a number to wait and see the guys inside.  Tell him you request an appointment to discuss your financial paperwork requirements.  Tell him you would be glad to wait.  When you get inside you just tell them what happened as simple as possible,  and show them the paperwork and ask for their assistance/help to get it correct for next time.  Keep it simple.  Sometimes it's just the way you phrase the words differently that will let them understand.

I don't think they will call the bank, but maybe you can get a phone number for them.  But I don't think it will be necessary.

 

Did the balance on the letter, statement and bank book match?  That's super important.  That's why you need to go in within 1-2 days after getting the letter.  Like, go to the bank on Monday or Tuesday and then immigration the day after.

 

You just have to be respectful, and patient, and they usually are pretty good.    I hope this helps and good luck.

[SEAsia Traveler]

So I went to immigration yesterday and got covid extension stamp, so I’m extended though June 13. 

 

Then I walked down to room 103 and sat down. Smiley guy came over and I told him I have some questions about the visa application and gestured towards the door and asked if I could inside. He moved between me and the door and began stating the requirements…age 50, bank account, 800k, then took my previous bank papers and again said today! today! today! (i.e., all pages must have today’s date). Some younger Thais standing nearby looked up from their phones when the smiley guy raised his voice. Then smiley said, come back next week but only with the right papers, because you are making me look bad! By the time it was over (only about 2 minutes) we were patting each other on the back to smooth things over. I did notice he was wearing a very expensive pair of designer eyeglasses.

 

So…I went to the bank again, but the manager was not there. I asked about depositing 100 baht and whether it would appear on the statement the same day, and the clerk said no, the statement has to refresh overnight. The clerk then took my phone number, so I expect a call from the bank manager next week.

 

Now, 103 smiley did give me his boss’s phone number during an earlier visit. And the bank manager did previously offer to call immigration. I could try that, but what if the boss contradicts smiley guy, but then I can’t get past smiley again? He may tell me to not come back. 

 

I may need to use an agent, but really!? How hard can it be to get a bank statement with today’s date on it? Ideal outcome is the banker makes it happen.

 

[Peter Denis]

21 minutes ago, SEAsia Traveler said:

So I went to immigration yesterday and got covid extension stamp, so I’m extended though June 13. 

 

Then I walked down to room 103 and sat down. Smiley guy came over and I told him I have some questions about the visa application and gestured towards the door and asked if I could inside. He moved between me and the door and began stating the requirements…age 50, bank account, 800k, then took my previous bank papers and again said today! today! today! (i.e., all pages must have today’s date). Some younger Thais standing nearby looked up from their phones when the smiley guy raised his voice. Then smiley said, come back next week but only with the right papers, because you are making me look bad! By the time it was over (only about 2 minutes) we were patting each other on the back to smooth things over. I did notice he was wearing a very expensive pair of designer eyeglasses.

 

So…I went to the bank again, but the manager was not there. I asked about depositing 100 baht and whether it would appear on the statement the same day, and the clerk said no, the statement has to refresh overnight. The clerk then took my phone number, so I expect a call from the bank manager next week.

 

Now, 103 smiley did give me his boss’s phone number during an earlier visit. And the bank manager did previously offer to call immigration. I could try that, but what if the boss contradicts smiley guy, but then I can’t get past smiley again? He may tell me to not come back. 

 

I may need to use an agent, but really!? How hard can it be to get a bank statement with today’s date on it? Ideal outcome is the banker makes it happen.

 

You wrote that yesterday you got the covid-extension stamp till 13 June.

And that immediately after receiving that stamp you applied for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa, which was turned down.

Most probably there is a misunderstanding going on re the reason of your application not being processed, as I think - from what you wrote - that you simply applied far too early.

Yes, you need to apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa when you still have at least 15 days left (some offices require 23 days) left on your permission to stay.  So in your case the deadline for application would be end of May.

When applying for an extension earliest you can apply is 30 days before permission to stay expiry (some offices allow to apply 45 days earlier).  So I presume that it would be same for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa application, which means that you can apply earliest 15 May with deadline for application 30 May (or 22 May, depending if your Imm Office requires 23 days left on your permission to stay).

 

[Tanoshi]

39 minutes ago, SEAsia Traveler said:

He moved between me and the door and began stating the requirements…age 50, bank account, 800k, then took my previous bank papers and again said today! today! today! (i.e., all pages must have today’s date).

The date of the letter, Bank statement and updated Passbook should all be requested on the same day as your application. The balance on the statement, letter and Passbook should all match.

The last transaction on a statement is irrelevant, it's the date of issue on the top.

 

If you need to apply for a 12 month statement from HQ, this can take 5 working days to arrive at branch. Immigration should be fully aware of this fact, but ask the branch to stamp, sign and date it with the date they issue it to you.

In this situation plan ahead. DO NOT make any withdrawals between requesting a 12 month statement and visiting the branch several days later. Withdraw sufficient funds to cover the period of waiting and submitting.

[ubonjoe]

20 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Yes, you need to apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa when you still have at least 15 days left (some offices require 23 days) left on your permission to stay.  So in your case the deadline for application would be end of May.

That is not correct for a non immigrant visa application. The 30 days is only for extension applications.

Only the minimum number of days is used for them.

I am can recall people entering on tourist visas and they applied for a visa within a few days of entering the country.

[SEAsia Traveler]

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

The last transaction on a statement is irrelevant, it's the date of issue on the top.

The branch produced the statement in just a few minutes. But it has...and can only have, according to the bank...the previous day’s date. Whereas letter and passbook have the current date. All have the same balance, but the statement is dated the previous day.

 

Smiley won’t let me apply for the visa unless the letter, statement and passbook are all dated the same day as the visa application. His rules...for me it seems.

 

[Peter Denis]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is not correct for a non immigrant visa application. The 30 days is only for extension applications.

Only the minimum number of days is used for them.

I am can recall people entering on tourist visas and they applied for a visa within a few days of entering the country.

Thanks for clarifying that. 

So in this case the OP applying on 2 April almost 2.5 months before his permission to stay expires on 13 June, should be OK?

Even if so, would it not make sense to postpone the application and make use of at least 1 month of the extra time that his current permission to stay allows?

 

[Tanoshi]

To add to @Peter Denis advice above.

 

Ensure you have sufficient funds for a few days prior to requesting letter, statement etc.

Monday 17th May, visit the bank, update your Passbook (will bring your balance forward to the current date), request a 3 month bank statement (should be dated with current date on the top and display current balance), request letter, dated same day and balance as of that day, which should match that as shown on your statement and Passbook.

 

Visit Immigration that same day submitting relevant TM86/87 for Non O, bank documents and other relevant documents. You'll receive a 14 day under consideration stamp. After consideration period and approval, return to IO with Passport to obtain Non O stamp.

[Tanoshi]

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I am can recall people entering on tourist visas and they applied for a visa within a few days of entering the country.

VE entry, yes.

In all fairness, TV entries, some offices will state 'to early' and request to return within 30 days of permission of stay left.

[Tanoshi]

13 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

So in this case the OP applying on 2 April almost 2.5 months before his permission to stay expires on 13 June, should be OK?

If I understood @SEAsia Traveler post correctly, he was merely 'asking the question' in relation to a Non O application and his bank documents, providing his earlier financial proof for clarification of the IO's issue.

Indeed after just being issued a 60 day Covid extension, I very much doubt they would then be willing to also accept an application for a Non O on the same day, 75 days in advance of his now granted permission of stay.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I very much doubt they would then be willing to also accept an application for a Non O on the same day, 75 days in advance of his now granted permission of stay.

Why?

He applied for the extension to have the minimum of 15 days required to do the visa application.

[SEAsia Traveler]

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

If I understood @SEAsia Traveler post correctly, he was merely 'asking the question' in relation to a Non O application and his bank documents, providing his earlier financial proof for clarification of the IO's issue.

Indeed after just being issued a 60 day Covid extension, I very much doubt they would then be willing to also accept an application for a Non O on the same day, 75 days in advance of his now granted permission of stay.

That is correct, I was just asking about the bank documents. I didn't discuss when to apply with IO.

[Tanoshi]

17 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Why?

He applied for the extension to have the minimum of 15 days required to do the visa application.

Only because he had an issue with his previous Non O submission.

 

Applying for a Non O immediately the same day after receiving a 60 day Covid extension.

Bangkok, different desks, visit to the bank beforehand,  now having 75 days of permission of stay.

 

It simply wouldn't be possible to apply for a Non O 75 days in advance when entering VE or TV because the permission of stay granted at entry wouldn't cover that period of time.

Why would an IO accept an application for a Non O, 75 days in advance, when the standard is a maximum of 45 days for other applications.

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Why would an IO accept an application for a Non O, 75 days in advance, when the standard is a maximum of 45 days for other applications.

That is only for extensions of stay that start at end of your current permit to stay.

A new entry stamp is done when the non-o visa  is issued with a new 90 day permit to stay.

[Tanoshi]

9 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is only for extensions of stay that start at end of your current permit to stay.

A new entry stamp is done when the non-o visa  is issued with a new 90 day permit to stay.

I think most offices would consider a Non O application 75 days prior to any existing permission of stay a little premature considering the normal timeframe to submit any kind of application.

 

I know if you entered TV and immediately applied for a Non O at Roi Et, they advise you return within the last 30 days of your permission of stay.