Aggressive uncontrolled dogs ( What are my rights? )

[meinphuket]

On 2/7/2021 at 10:53 AM, Surelynot said:

Damn...that was my line.

Tell him you want it back !

[WaveHunter]

37 minutes ago, Ireland32 said:

Get pepper spray or a Stun Gun just the noise is terrifying to them, I think they will

leave you alone after that 

Yeah, then all you have to be worried about is being arrested for using them.  These are considered illegal weapons here in Thailand...ya know?

[WaveHunter]

36 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Actually, most Thai dogs seem to know instinctively about slingshots... I have mimicked one with my hands and had them stop dead in their tracks... 

Dogs are very attentive to hand gestures by humans.  SInce they posses no such ability to manipulate objects, it must seem like magic to them that a human can throw an object at them.  One memory of experiencing that probably lasts a lifetime for a dog, especially if it results in pain ????  Just raising your arm as though you're about to throw something (even if you have nothing in your hand) usually makes an otherwise nasty dog change from offensive to defensive quickly.

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

25 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Dogs are very attentive to hand gestures by humans.  SInce they posses no such ability to manipulate objects, it must seem like magic to them

My first village dog was a real tough stray... one day he was jousting with a King Cobra... I smashed the snake with a heavy rock... Not sure that I was leader of the pack after that but he did definitely have a new respect for me... great dog. 

[WaveHunter]

21 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

My first village dog was a real tough stray... one day he was jousting with a King Cobra... I smashed the snake with a heavy rock... Not sure that I was leader of the pack after that but he did definitely have a new respect for me... great dog. 

That whole alpha thing is so true of dogs, particularly street dogs.  Best tactic when confronted by a pack is to focus on the Alpha (you'll easily know which one it is).  If you can control him, you won't have to worry about the others.  More often than not you don't even have to take offensive actions like throwing something, pepper spray or any other such nonsense.  Just making eye contact and standing your ground is often enough, and if not, raising your arm like you're about to throw something usually will thwart and advance.  The last thing you wanna do, but most people do anyway, is to turn your back on them, back away, or and even worse try to run away since that's almost guaranteed to escalate to situation. 

 

I mean, a human being can use their intellect to diffuse the situation but a dog will only go by instincts and by "pack" mentality.

 

Many of the scariest encounters I've ever had, ended peaceably without me or the dog(s) getting hurt...by just using your head.  And, as you've mentioned, I've been shown respect by some of them if I run into them later.  In fact, one dog who did his best to bite me out on the beach one night along with his pack, now approaches me in a real submissive way wagging his tail because I've been feeding him lately.  He's one of those pack that roam up and down the beach in Jomtien after dark, and live in that big fenced off field next to the Water Park.  So, yeah, it can all have a happy ending sometimes.  ????

 

[itsallmine68]

Under section 433 of the Thai Civil and Commercial Code, the dog's owner is responsible to compensate the injured party (your wife) for damage caused by his/her dogs.  Thailand places restrictions on monetary claims for emotional distress so probably no go on that.

 

Further, under section 358 of the Thai Penal Code, the owner can be charged for damaging, destroying, or causing destruction of the property of another as a result of negligent actions.  In addition, Section 377 of the Thai Penal Code states that the owner is responsible for a vicious animal if that animal is allowed to wander freely and is likely to cause injury to persons or property. Both crimes provide for imprisonment and/or a fine. 

 

This happened to a relative , went to the person where the dog resided. Answer from them "Not my dog" So that wont prove to go very far 

 

[RocketDog]

This topic comes up frequently with similar solutions offered each time. 

 

The place to start is not with the owners, the headman, the police, or other human parties. Your relationship with the dogs is the primary issue.

 

I've used the following approach multiple times in several countries with success every time. 

 

Make routine drives in your car to where the dogs approach you. Stop, roll down the window and speak softly in high soothing tones (baby talk), smile and toss out treats like fried pork skins. Then drive on. Never yell or raise your voice regardless of their reaction. 

Repeat consistently at least once a day for an extended period. They will modify their behavior when they realize you are not a threat but instead a yummy source of treats. 

 

Very soon you will see them identifying your vehicle and voice (important to talk to them), and will make a point of coming out to greet you.

Eventually you can meet them on motorcy or foot and actually hand-feed them. You will become their best human friend. 

 

It's takes patience and self-control to not display anger or fear, both of which the dogs will readily sense. 

 

Unless the dogs are actually trained to attack or not take food (both highly unlikely since they are off-leash), or have some severe organic disorder you cannot fail. 

 

A intended consequence of this approach is that it will also impress your neighbors and the dog owners that you are a peaceful and friendly person making a reasonable effort. Everybody will also be relieved that the problem is solved without any effort on their part. 

 

Dogs are not stupid. If they don't fear you, and you are a source of food, they will run to greet you when you pass. 

 

Other approaches will raise everybody's adrenaline levels, disrupt the neighborhood, and lead to continuing and probably escalating tensions. 

It's actually much easier to earn a dog's trust than a human's. 

 

It cost a few baht for some food and a few minutes of time when you pass them. Within a week you will see changes. If not, then at least you know (and the neighbors know) that you tried conciliation over aggression. 

 

[pacovl46]

Buy some proper bear spray and teach the dogs a lesson. They’ll avoid you like the plague afterwards! 

[jvs]

47 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

This topic comes up frequently with similar solutions offered each time. 

 

The place to start is not with the owners, the headman, the police, or other human parties. Your relationship with the dogs is the primary issue.

 

I've used the following approach multiple times in several countries with success every time. 

 

Make routine drives in your car to where the dogs approach you. Stop, roll down the window and speak softly in high soothing tones (baby talk), smile and toss out treats like fried pork skins. Then drive on. Never yell or raise your voice regardless of their reaction. 

Repeat consistently at least once a day for an extended period. They will modify their behavior when they realize you are not a threat but instead a yummy source of treats. 

 

Very soon you will see them identifying your vehicle and voice (important to talk to them), and will make a point of coming out to greet you.

Eventually you can meet them on motorcy or foot and actually hand-feed them. You will become their best human friend. 

 

It's takes patience and self-control to not display anger or fear, both of which the dogs will readily sense. 

 

Unless the dogs are actually trained to attack or not take food (both highly unlikely since they are off-leash), or have some severe organic disorder you cannot fail. 

 

A intended consequence of this approach is that it will also impress your neighbors and the dog owners that you are a peaceful and friendly person making a reasonable effort. Everybody will also be relieved that the problem is solved without any effort on their part. 

 

Dogs are not stupid. If they don't fear you, and you are a source of food, they will run to greet you when you pass. 

 

Other approaches will raise everybody's adrenaline levels, disrupt the neighborhood, and lead to continuing and probably escalating tensions. 

It's actually much easier to earn a dog's trust than a human's. 

 

It cost a few baht for some food and a few minutes of time when you pass them. Within a week you will see changes. If not, then at least you know (and the neighbors know) that you tried conciliation over aggression. 

 

All nice and dandy but the owners are responsible for the damage the dogs do,your aproach may help you but what about people on bycicles or little children getting mauled.

[rwill]

If you go to the local Aa Ba Ta (องค์การบริหารส่วนตำบล) office and make a complaint they will send people to check it out.

I guess you could make a police report too about the bite incident. 

[RocketDog]

32 minutes ago, jvs said:

All nice and dandy but the owners are responsible for the damage the dogs do,your aproach may help you but what about people on bycicles or little children getting mauled.

Well, I guess this could be a teachable moment for the other potential victims and the dogs both.

Get creative. How about a can or basket on either side of the dog's house that visitors can find treats readily available for the dogs? If the dogs can be trained to expect treats from anybody commonly passing, nobody has to worry about whose responsible for damages. Yes?

 

Beyond that, universal global panaceas are rarely plausible. The OP was discussing HIS problems.

 

How do the other approaches suggested, short of the illegal killing of the dogs, effect a universal remedy? Actually any other approach will necessarily have negative and perhaps persistent results.

 

There are always choices, and careful thought is the best way to adopt one.

 

[RocketDog]

1 hour ago, pacovl46 said:

Buy some proper bear spray and teach the dogs a lesson. They’ll avoid you like the plague afterwards! 

You will be a hero in the neighborhood and gain everybody's fear and respect as well.

 

Hmm, can I buy proper bear spray at Makro? No? Well, not a workable solution then is it?

[RocketDog]

On 2/9/2021 at 1:13 PM, canthai55 said:

Who cares if it wakes up the owners -

Problem is solved.

Here is one for all the 'I Love Dogs' brigade ...

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1066846-attack-on-child-in-chiang-mai-prompts-action-against-strays/

 

The OP is not posting about stray dogs.

But thanks for the intentional provocation; that always furthers a civil conversation.

[adexbe]

Just feed the nice beasts ❤️ and give them love ❤️

Otherwise move or suicide are the best options here ????

 

 

[keithkarmann]

On 2/7/2021 at 10:12 AM, cnxgary said:

My neighbor 2 houses away has 4 dogs that continue to be aggressive to joggers, motorcyclists and bicycle riders. My wife was bitten on the foot while on motorbike yesterday and recently a young girl was knocked off her bicycle. They howl in the mornings and all through the night. I have purchased a dog whistle and want to but a slingshot but I am wary of unknown laws or regulations. What are my or any ones rights when dealing with this problem?

Nothing what a piece of 2x4 will not cure or an iron bar would not cure when the owner is not looking.

[Regyai]

The ubiquitous Thai folk's response to troubles with other's dogs always seems to be clandestine poisoning in my experience

[mushroomdave]

BEAR SPRAY

[Maha Sarakham]

Seems like when people in the village get tired of dogs, they will poison them all when no one is around.  Wife lost two dogs this way, even though it was other people's dogs attacking their chickens and not hers.  Street dogs are a big problem in Thailand, especially as rabies is fairly common, doesn't seem to be a good solution.

[ifmu]

On 2/7/2021 at 10:46 AM, Pilotman said:

definitely start with the village Head Shed.  You can't be just the only ones impacted by the irresponsibility of the owner. Make an official report to the Police.  Again, you may not get anywhere, but you should try.  One thing is for sure, dont put up with it.

 

The next bit is more controversial, but I do challenge aggressive dogs with a big thick stick that I carry, actually two.  I do this to protect my own two small dogs when we are out on walks.  I have had one animal really come at me.  I stayed clear, shouted very loudly and wrapped him on the head, hard several times, he soon gave up and turned away.  Unless they are a large pack working in unison, which you do get sometimes,  or they have rabies, they will back off, if you seem more aggressive, and louder,  than they are.  The good thing is that they will remember you and keep clear. It helps not to be female  and to be quite a big bloke.  They are far from stupid and will back off if they feel in danger. Risky I know, but a necessity if you are out to protect yourself or your own dogs 

back home i had a vicious dog as a neighbor  .. he tunneled under the fence one day and came at me .. i had a can of hornet/bee spray and i sprayed him with it .. it has a loong solid stream so i could stay away from the dog .. .. 

worked for me ... except i like most dogs 

[MadMuhammad]

I have a couple of aggressive  dogs where I live. They nip and growl and howl a lot. 
Over 4 it 5 months I’ve made friend with them and they tend to act indifferent or not at all.

When one particular one starts howling at night, usually around 3 or 4am I go outside and talk to him or feed him a sausage. He’s very agitated but calms down quite quickly when I approach and talk in a soothing manner. 
Sure it’s not easy to drag yourself out of bed nor spend time over months attempting to befriend them but it does work in my experience 

[hotchilli]

On 2/7/2021 at 10:12 AM, cnxgary said:

My neighbor 2 houses away has 4 dogs that continue to be aggressive to joggers, motorcyclists and bicycle riders. My wife was bitten on the foot while on motorbike yesterday and recently a young girl was knocked off her bicycle. They howl in the mornings and all through the night. I have purchased a dog whistle and want to but a slingshot but I am wary of unknown laws or regulations. What are my or any ones rights when dealing with this problem?

Don't think there's much you can do about the noise/barking issue, unless it goes on all night.

However being bitten is different, did your wife go to a doctor, have it verified/photographed?

You can then approach the neighbours to ask them to control the dogs or you will go to the next level of reporting them.

[pacovl46]

14 hours ago, RocketDog said:

You will be a hero in the neighborhood and gain everybody's fear and respect as well.

 

Hmm, can I buy proper bear spray at Makro? No? Well, not a workable solution then is it?

There’s this really nifty invention called internet that offers another nifty invention called search engine that allows you, as the name implies, to search for things, amongst them, believe it or not, websites that sell bear spray! 
 

Does that work for you?!
 

Pepper spray will do the trick as well! 

[Pilotman]

9 hours ago, MadMuhammad said:

I have a couple of aggressive  dogs where I live. They nip and growl and howl a lot. 
Over 4 it 5 months I’ve made friend with them and they tend to act indifferent or not at all.

When one particular one starts howling at night, usually around 3 or 4am I go outside and talk to him or feed him a sausage. He’s very agitated but calms down quite quickly when I approach and talk in a soothing manner. 
Sure it’s not easy to drag yourself out of bed nor spend time over months attempting to befriend them but it does work in my experience 

everyone needs love and care, even, or most especially, animals. Frankly,  I prefer them to humans. 

[RocketDog]

2 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

There’s this really nifty invention called internet that offers another nifty invention called search engine that allows you, as the name implies, to search for things, amongst them, believe it or not, websites that sell bear spray! 
 

Does that work for you?!
 

Pepper spray will do the trick as well! 

Of course one can order nearly anything from anywhere. 

That really wasn't my point. 

But nevermind. 

Enjoy your bear spray. 

[NoshowJones]

On 2/7/2021 at 10:12 AM, cnxgary said:

My neighbor 2 houses away has 4 dogs that continue to be aggressive to joggers, motorcyclists and bicycle riders. My wife was bitten on the foot while on motorbike yesterday and recently a young girl was knocked off her bicycle. They howl in the mornings and all through the night. I have purchased a dog whistle and want to but a slingshot but I am wary of unknown laws or regulations. What are my or any ones rights when dealing with this problem?

Never mind any rules or regulations, do what is right for you as long as you are not detrimental in any way to ordinary people. If you keep worrying about this law and that law, why bother getting out of bed in the morning? Just use ordinary common sense. Sorted.

[NoshowJones]

On 2/7/2021 at 10:29 AM, FritsSikkink said:

If your wife has been bitten, you go to the owner and demand payment for cost and stress. 

Owner???? Your neighbour is not going to admit to owning an uncontrollable dog.

[NoshowJones]

On 2/7/2021 at 7:08 PM, katana said:

Just out of interest, what breed are they?

Heinz. 57 varieties. ????

[NoshowJones]

On 2/11/2021 at 1:39 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

NO. SHE goes to the owner.

 

I used to carry a length of blue plastic water pipe on my bike and the dogs always ran away when they saw it. Not one came close enough for me to actually hit one. Carrying stones works too, Normally don't even have to throw it- just look like one is going to and they run.

I carry a large stone in the basket on my bike, I have used one a few times over the years, it gives me a good feeling when I hear that loud yelp. If you are attacked unprovoked by any living creature, man or beast, then you must defend yourself, no if's or but's about it.

[NoshowJones]

20 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Yeah, then all you have to be worried about is being arrested for using them.  These are considered illegal weapons here in Thailand...ya know?

Another member of the "scared your own shadow" brigade. ????

[earlinclaifornia]

I had mostly used stopping every time and went with aggressive confrontation. Recently I added a spray bottle set to stream diluted vinegar and water. Since, I have yet to pull the trigger. They sense I have this hand held power and they retreat.