COVID may have taken 'convoluted path' to Wuhan, WHO team leader says

By Josh Horwitz and David Stanway

 

Peter Ben Embarek and Marion Koopmans, members of the World Health Organization (WHO) team tasked with investigating the origins of the coronavirus disease (COVID-19), attend the WHO-China joint study news conference at a hotel in Wuhan, Hubei province, China February 9, 2021. REUTERS/Aly Song

 

WUHAN, China (Reuters) - The head of a World Health Organization-led team probing the origins of COVID-19 said bats remain a likely source and that transmission of the virus via frozen food is a possibility that warrants further investigation, but he ruled out a lab leak.

 

Peter Ben Embarek, who led the team of independent experts in its nearly month-long visit to the Chinese city of Wuhan, where the outbreak first emerged at a seafood market in late 2019, said the team's work had uncovered new information but had not dramatically changed their picture of the outbreak.

 

"The possible path from whatever original animal species all the way through to the Huanan market could have taken a very long and convoluted path involving also movements across borders," Embarek told a nearly three-hour media briefing.

 

Embarek said work to identify the coronavirus's origins points to a natural reservoir in bats, but it is unlikely that they were in Wuhan.

 

Investigators were also looking for Chinese blood samples that could indicate that the virus was circulating earlier than first thought, he said.

 

"In trying to understand the picture of December 2019 we embarked on a very detailed and profound search for other cases that may have been missed, cases earlier on in 2019," he said.

 

"And the conclusion was we did not find evidence of large outbreaks that could be related to cases of COVID-19 prior to December 2019 in Wuhan or elsewhere."

 

The possibility the virus leaked from a lab - which has been the subject of conspiracy theories - was extremely unlikely and did not require further study, Embarek said.

 

Liang Wannian, head of China's expert panel on the outbreak, said there was evidence of coronavirus infections that could have preceded the first detected case by "several weeks".

 

"This suggests that we cannot rule out that it was circulating in other regions and the circulation was unreported," he told the briefing.

 

FROZEN ANIMALS?

 

Embarek said the team had identified market vendors selling frozen animal products including farmed wild animals.

 

"So there is the potential to continue to follow this lead and further look at the supply chain and animals that were supplied to the market," he said.

 

China has pushed the idea that the virus can be transmitted by frozen food and has repeatedly announced findings of coronavirus traces on imported food packaging.

 

"We know the virus can survive in conditions that are found in these cold, frozen environments, but we don't really understand if the virus can transmit to humans" or under which conditions, Embarek told the briefing.

 

The team arrived in Wuhan on Jan. 14 and after two weeks of quarantine, visited key sites including the Huanan seafood market, the location of the first known cluster of infections, as well as the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which has been involved in coronavirus research.

 

Members of the team sought to rein in expectations for the mission, with infectious disease expert Dominic Dwyer saying it would probably take years to fully understand the origins of COVID-19.

 

The United States said China needed to be more open when it comes to sharing data and samples as well as allowing access to patients, medical staff and lab workers. Beijing subsequently accused Washington of politicising a scientific mission.

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2021-02-09

 

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28 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

but he ruled out a lab leak.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, Lol.

 

And how would he know?  Kindly tell me the scientific reasoning.

 

They just got there, can't possibly have learned much or analysed anything. Yet, they state, as fact, the one thing the Chinese CCP party desperately wants the world to believe.

 

No. They don't know that.

 

14 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

natural reservoir in bats, but it is unlikely that they were in Wuhan.

What puppets.

I cannot see the strings but they are puppets.

No one said that the bats were in Wuhan. The bat poo was taken from caves miles away some seven years earlier. 6 people went to collect the poo and took it to the lab in Wuhan. 3 of them died from a 'coronavirus-type respiratory illness. The lab then 'worked on the poo. Duh.

The frozen animals/food is a Chinese deflection. Have any other countries come up with this one? It is on all of the TV channels in China. The Chinese population is boycotting food from overseas. Another 'win' for China.

Sorry Australia, Europe, UK, USA your food has Wuhan flu. Oops, Covid.

 

If I cannot post the link google The Times 'seven year covid trail revealed'.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-year-covid-trail-revealed-l5vxt7jqp

27 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

The possibility the virus leaked from a lab - which has been the subject of conspiracy theories - was extremely unlikely and did not require further study, Embarek said.

And the cheque is in the post comrade.

35 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

 "The possible path from whatever original animal species all the way through to the Huanan market could have taken a very long and convoluted path involving also movements across borders," Embarek told a nearly three-hour media briefing.

 

Right...????

The Wuhan lab was working on the bat borne virus responsible and had already caused concern over its adherence to safety procedures. The bats involved aren’t native to Wuhan but are found hundreds of kilometers away. The conspiracy is that WHO are involved in a cover up for political reasons 

1 hour ago, rabas said:

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, Lol.

 

And how would he know?  Kindly tell me the scientific reasoning.

 

They just got there, can't possibly have learned much or analysed anything. Yet, they state, as fact, the one thing the Chinese CCP party desperately wants the world to believe.

 

No. They don't know that.

 

 

Ok, I was just casually looking for an expert in this field to ask some questions I have. 

 

What is the explanation of this?

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-science-idUSKBN23X2HQ

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53106444

13 minutes ago, ctxa said:

 

Ok, I was just casually looking for an expert in this field to ask some questions I have. 

 

What is the explanation of this?

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-science-idUSKBN23X2HQ

 Ity's old paper that has been critized. Read what you posted"

 

Dr Joan Ramon Villalbi of the Spanish Society for Public Health and Sanitary Administration told Reuters it was still early to draw definitive conclusions.

 

Read NYT Here:  "Scientists not involved in the study seriously doubt the findings,

 

But you asked about science. The science it they do not detect SARS-2, the just test for antigens/antibodies. Such tests have false positives.

13 minutes ago, ctxa said:

 

Ok, I was just casually looking for an expert in this field to ask some questions I have. 

 

What is the explanation of this?

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-science-idUSKBN23X2HQ

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53106444

The explanation is in the first link itself: 

Dr Joan Ramon Villalbi of the Spanish Society for Public Health and Sanitary Administration told Reuters it was still early to draw definitive conclusions.

“When it’s just one result, you always want more data, more studies, more samples to confirm it and rule out a laboratory error or a methodological problem,” he said.

 

1 hour ago, rabas said:

 Ity's old paper that has been critized. Read what you posted"

 

Dr Joan Ramon Villalbi of the Spanish Society for Public Health and Sanitary Administration told Reuters it was still early to draw definitive conclusions.

 

Read NYT Here:  "Scientists not involved in the study seriously doubt the findings,

 

But you asked about science. The science it they do not detect SARS-2, the just test for antigens/antibodies. Such tests have false positives.

 

 

Yes, and you very gently pretended the BBC article about Italy wasn't there.

 

And FYI, the reuters article about Spain, mentions very clearly virus genome. Care to explain how you find virus genome by doing antigens/antibodies tests ON SEWAGE WATER? ????

Everyone knows it originated here:

53 minutes ago, Phuketshrew said:

Everyone knows it originated here:

 

That is in Wuhan - Yes?

Viruses that are harmful to humans have popped up from all over the world for thousands of years. Maybe this one came from China, maybe not.

Animals don’t acknowledge human international borders, it could happen anywhere. Would it be Australia’s “fault” if it came from an Aussie bat? 

The important thing is to do everything you can to stop it as much as you can. Wuhan did a fairly good job since they were caught off guard with it and were not sure what it was. 
 

Wuhan is back to normal now by following medical advice.
 

Many Western and Middle Eastern governments and citizens refused to follow medical advice for economic or because of “rights”. Karens etc.

 

This allowed the virus to spread rather than be contained like in Wuhan and then mutate into a more highly contagious mutant variant which is killing more everyday than the entire total of in Wuhan. 
 

Instead of looking to point the blame they should be taking care of their own backyards. They are responsible for the mutations and continued never ending spread, not Chinese bats. 

 

 

I don't think it really matters too much if it was a institute leak, a market animal or a wild animal, the point is the Chinese deliberately withheld information and told the world there was no problem. It would always be hard to pin point the origin - but you can point at China for continually and deliberately hiding it and lying about it.

 

You may not have liked Trump but at least he saw through the WHO clowns

1 hour ago, ctxa said:

Yes, and you very gently pretended the BBC article about Italy wasn't there.

 

And FYI, the reuters article about Spain, mentions very clearly virus genome. Care to explain how you find virus genome by doing antigens/antibodies tests ON SEWAGE WATER? ????

I found the paper you did not reference. They used ordinary PCR testing and found 1, just one single sample, in March 12, 2019. All other samples came out negative, they said. No more until early 2020. Oops.

 

PCR does not find whole genomes, it looks for tiny pieces. Right now the world repeats millions of PCR tests because of their lack of reliability.  Worse, they didn't find all the pieces they should have, they found only 2 of 5.  The other 3 should have been even easier.  See the comments section.

 

The  pieces they look for are 18 bases long. The genome is 29800 bases long.  This is one of the pieces they look for called P2   CTCCCTTTGTTGTGTTGT

 

Here is the preprint,

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.13.20129627v1.full-text

 

3 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

I don't think it really matters too much if it was a institute leak, a market animal or a wild animal, the point is the Chinese deliberately withheld information and told the world there was no problem. It would always be hard to pin point the origin - but you can point at China for continually and deliberately hiding it and lying about it.

 

You may not have liked Trump but at least he saw through the WHO clowns

And created an  alternate world wide organisation to deal with a worldwide pandemic. Oh wait he did not have to because the virus was going to go away on its own  like magic. 

We work with what we have, not what we wish we had, and try to make what we have better.

It does not good to eradicate the virus in the US or any other country, but let it fester in other countries because it will come back , and it might even be mutated when it comes back.  

1 hour ago, rabas said:

I found the paper you did not reference. They used ordinary PCR testing and found 1, just one single sample, in March 12, 2019. All other samples came out negative, they said. No more until early 2020. Oops.

 

PCR does not find whole genomes, it looks for tiny pieces. Right now the world repeats millions of PCR tests because of their lack of reliability.  Worse, they didn't find all the pieces they should have, they found only 2 of 5.  The other 3 should have been even easier.  See the comments section.

 

The  pieces they look for are 18 bases long. The genome is 29800 bases long.  This is one of the pieces they look for called P2   CTCCCTTTGTTGTGTTGT

 

Here is the preprint,

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.13.20129627v1.full-text

 

Exactly, nothing to do with antigen/antibody testing. And the fact that PCR doesn't look for the entire genome of the virus, anyone with high school biology knowledge should be very well aware of it. 

 

However you do mention PCR tests lack reliability? Then what is reliable according to you? ELISA? Serology? ???? I suggest you go back to studying basic science concepts, even though you claim to know much about it. 

 

And yes, despite the many mistakes you make while trying to provide data to support your argument, it is still a valid argument. Because clearly, like the article mentions and like I never denied,  that is not for certain. But up to this point you still haven't said anything about the Italy article., instead you keep using (mostly incorect) arguments to prove something that I never denied, lol. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Natai Beach said:

Animals don’t acknowledge human international borders, it could happen anywhere. Would it be Australia’s “fault” if it came from an Aussie bat? 

 

That would depend on whether they extracted, processed it and inserted a certain unexpected 'cleave' into the genome to run experiments in one of their bio hazard labs, essentially turning it from an animal virus which humans generally won't catch into one that's easy for humans to catch...because that's what appears to have happened.

 

 

7 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

I don't think it really matters too much if it was a institute leak, a market animal or a wild animal, the point is the Chinese deliberately withheld information and told the world there was no problem. It would always be hard to pin point the origin - but you can point at China for continually and deliberately hiding it and lying about it.

 

You may not have liked Trump but at least he saw through the WHO clowns

They even made a coin to celebrate his defeat of the virus with just an umbrella......

11 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

"And the conclusion was we did not find evidence of large outbreaks that could be related to cases of COVID-19 prior to December 2019 in Wuhan or elsewhere."

So , it originated in Wuhan .

And it was a zoonotic transmission . From animal to human . Not from a lab .

The catch and related torture of domesticated animals  and wildlife has a long tradition in Asia .

That is exactly the reason for the first appearance of Sars Cov-2 . Nothing else .

11 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

And the cheque is in the post comrade.

So it wasn't a false flag attack by the religion of peace crew in retaliation for whats happening with the weega? 

The start of the WHO repaying it's political and financial matters with an investigation that will conclude the virus came from outside of China.

 

They will conclude that bats in SE Asia was the source, conviently ignoring the fact that illegal trafficking of wildlife by China plus the disgusting habit in China of stockpiling live wildlife in wet markets has been the source of almost every flu and Coronavirus pandemic since the Middle Ages.

 

Traffic wildlife and keep live bats, Pangolin, Wild Cats etc in over- crowded cages in filthy markets just so you can eat animals that no civilised person would ever eat is a recipe for a pandemic.

9 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

You may not have liked Trump but at least he saw through the WHO clowns

And not long after that he became a clown himself.....so it was spreading ?

I pray to God(s) that those who dismiss the virus as a hoax die tomorrow.

12 hours ago, rabas said:

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, Lol.

 

And how would he know?  Kindly tell me the scientific reasoning.

 

They just got there, can't possibly have learned much or analysed anything. Yet, they state, as fact, the one thing the Chinese CCP party desperately wants the world to believe.

 

No. They don't know that.

 

Genetic sequencing has been done and it's been proven it wasn't from a lab.

12 hours ago, rabas said:

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, Lol.

 

And how would he know?  Kindly tell me the scientific reasoning.

 

They just got there, can't possibly have learned much or analysed anything. Yet, they state, as fact, the one thing the Chinese CCP party desperately wants the world to believe.

 

No. They don't know that.

 

Brown envelopes speak volumes ......................LOL 

10 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

I don't think it really matters too much if it was a institute leak, a market animal or a wild animal, the point is the Chinese deliberately withheld information and told the world there was no problem. It would always be hard to pin point the origin - but you can point at China for continually and deliberately hiding it and lying about it.

 

You may not have liked Trump but at least he saw through the WHO clowns

And played his misinformation game with it. Kettle calling the pot black?

8 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

That would depend on whether they extracted, processed it and inserted a certain unexpected 'cleave' into the genome to run experiments in one of their bio hazard labs, essentially turning it from an animal virus which humans generally won't catch into one that's easy for humans to catch...because that's what appears to have happened.

 

 

I was reading an article this morning from the ABC and one of the conclusions was that it was unlikely to have transmitted directly from bats, but from bats to another animal and then to humans. This was the case with MERS and the Hendra virus in Australia. It is an interesting read for the none paranoid people.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-02-10/covid-coronavirus-tracing-animal-origins-bats-sars-hendra/13081684

11 hours ago, Natai Beach said:

Viruses that are harmful to humans have popped up from all over the world for thousands of years. Maybe this one came from China, maybe not.

Animals don’t acknowledge human international borders, it could happen anywhere. Would it be Australia’s “fault” if it came from an Aussie bat? 

The important thing is to do everything you can to stop it as much as you can. Wuhan did a fairly good job since they were caught off guard with it and were not sure what it was. 
 

Wuhan is back to normal now by following medical advice.
 

Many Western and Middle Eastern governments and citizens refused to follow medical advice for economic or because of “rights”. Karens etc.

 

This allowed the virus to spread rather than be contained like in Wuhan and then mutate into a more highly contagious mutant variant which is killing more everyday than the entire total of in Wuhan. 
 

Instead of looking to point the blame they should be taking care of their own backyards. They are responsible for the mutations and continued never ending spread, not Chinese bats. 

 

 

Are we blaming the Brits and Southafricans for the strain that is worse too. If not (and I dont) then stop blaming the Chinese. That is my opinion seems a lot like yours.

 

Its unlikely it came from a lab, if there was a cover up then for sure the US or other countries could prove it. Besides one can see if a virus is made in a lab or not.

 

Unless anyone can prove this was done on purpose then its an accident. We are not blaming Japan for the reactor breach either. I think only die hard anti Chinese people think this is done on purpose. 

frozen food ?   imagine they find the source to be from ... THAILAND imports