AstraZeneca: German researchers discover thrombosis trigger

[Puccini]

AstraZeneca: German researchers discover thrombosis trigger

The discovery of the cause of blood clots among some AstraZeneca recipients means that a targeted treatment can be developed.

Date 19.03.2021
Author Alex Berry

Researchers at the Greifswald teaching hospital in northern Germany said on Friday that they had discovered the cause of the unusual blood clot problems found in some recipients of the AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine, public broadcaster Norddeutscher Rundfunk (NDR) reported.

The investigation showed how the vaccine caused blood clots in the brain in a few patients. The discovery means that targeted treatment can be developed to prevent problems.

The success was a result of cooperation between the Greifswald hospital, state health regulator the Paul Ehrlich Institute (PEI), as well as doctors from Austria — a nurse there died from thrombosis in the brain after being vaccinated with the AstraZeneca jab.

Read more: https://www.dw.com/en/astrazeneca-german-researchers-discover-thrombosis-trigger/a-56925550

[internationalism]

that vaccination will be used in thailand, almost exclusively.

so many those in risk groups should might be excluded now from the vax program, until solution is found. That doesn't sound well

 

[onebir]

28 minutes ago, Puccini said:

AstraZeneca: German researchers discover thrombosis trigger

Very misleading title: they've identified an anatomical location, and a possible association between clots there and vaccination, but at a frequency so low (<1 per 1m vaccinations) it's impossible to sensibly conclude anything:

Quote

Berlit considers speculation that active ingredients in the vaccine could trigger thrombosis in a similar way to COVID-19 to be speculative [ ???? ]. "This is all hypothetical. So far, there are no indications of this. This accumulation has so far only occurred in Germany and not, for example, in England," he says.

Source: 2nd linked article in OP

 

[Puccini]

28 minutes ago, internationalism said:

...that vaccination will be used in thailand, almost exclusively...

I am not so sure about that. For example:

EMA recommends COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca for authorisation in the EU
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-recommends-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-authorisation-eu

European nations resume use of AstraZeneca Covid vaccine after regulator signs off
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/18/ema-approves-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-after-blood-clot-reports.html

US to send 4m AstraZeneca vaccine doses to Mexico and Canada
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/18/us-astrazeneca-vaccine-doses-mexico-canada

Australia to continue using AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine despite Europe pause
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-australia/australia-to-continue-using-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-despite-europe-pause-idUSKBN2B72W7?il=0

Etc.

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Puccini
added a link

[Don Chance]

Here's the article. Sounds like they have an effective treatment with a  common drug that will stop the blood clot immediately.

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Maestro
removed link to news article in German language

[NCC1701A]

1 hour ago, Puccini said:

The investigation showed how the vaccine caused blood clots in the brain 

I'll take my chances with no vaccine. Thanks. 

 

[Patong2021]

9 minutes ago, Don Chance said:

Here's the article. Sounds like they have an effective treatment with a  common drug that will stop the blood clot immediately.

 

https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/corona-impfung-von-astrazeneca-grund-fuer-thrombose-entdeckt-17253402.html

That's nice if the patient lives in urban area close to  urgent care facility. However, the benefit of  the AZ vaccine is that it is best used for hard to reach places, rural areas, where  urgent medical care is far away. By the time someone realizes they have brain blood clot and and can get to care, I think body will be stiff and cold.

So far German study suggest this is specific to German experience and this may involve other factors as article highlights. Interesting that UK does not have same issue. Only two countries  other than EU are using AZ vaccine in large quantity I think; UK and Canada. UK would have picked up on this by now. Canada has political push for the vaccine so I don't think they will say anything. USA did not approve yet.

 

 

[Meat Pie 47]

3 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

I'll take my chances with no vaccine. Thanks. 

 

So will I, where I live we never had any local infection for over 11 months I am not an anti vaccer and I am due for my flu shot shortly

[mommysboy]

15 hours ago, internationalism said:

that vaccination will be used in thailand, almost exclusively.

so many those in risk groups should might be excluded now from the vax program, until solution is found. That doesn't sound well

 

No. It's excellent in all over 50's.

Also, does not effect 99.99% of total population.

Yes, it needs to be looked at in a small subset of the population.

[mommysboy]

Note, 99.99% of the population is unaffected.

The problem is really the auto-immune deficiency in these people.  There could be many factors such as obesity, the contraceptive pill, and previous infection with covid19.

It's great they are managing it.

This will be a problem with the vaccines as we move to inoculating younger people.  Proceed with caution I guess.

Edited March 20, 2021 by mommysboy

[Kiujunn]

They (and other researchers,  too) found a reason for the the relatively frequent venous sinus thrombosis, a very nasty condition much worse than your average "thrombosis".

Relatively frequent means about 1:100,000, which is a lot more then in the general population. 

Reason is probably antibodies against platelets.

Treatment of this complication? Forget it, symptoms are not very specific and about 2 weeks after vaccination,  so usually it won't be detected until it is too late.

Why is it a problem? Because it's not old farts who get it, it's the vaccinated nurses who get it and die. They were all women under 50.

What conclusions of the German regulator?  They continue vaccinating with AZ, but changed the consent form. You now have to sign that you agree to die. BTW it is not easy for nurses in Germany to refuse thre vaccination. 

[mommysboy]

54 minutes ago, Kiujunn said:

They (and other researchers,  too) found a reason for the the relatively frequent venous sinus thrombosis, a very nasty condition much worse than your average "thrombosis".

Relatively frequent means about 1:100,000, which is a lot more then in the general population. 

Reason is probably antibodies against platelets.

Treatment of this complication? Forget it, symptoms are not very specific and about 2 weeks after vaccination,  so usually it won't be detected until it is too late.

Why is it a problem? Because it's not old farts who get it, it's the vaccinated nurses who get it and die. They were all women under 50.

What conclusions of the German regulator?  They continue vaccinating with AZ, but changed the consent form. You now have to sign that you agree to die. BTW it is not easy for nurses in Germany to refuse thre vaccination. 

 

Agreed, whilst we all have to accept a 1 per million chance, I feel that 1 per 100,000 could be unacceptable in an otherwise healthy person.

I don't see why some people can not justifiably refuse the jab even if they are health professionals, because the patients will mostly be protected by their own jabs.

It's not just the AZ vaccine either, and it should be noted that a minority of people with thrombocytopenia die.  It is treatable.

 

[4MyEgo]

I think what a lot of people are missing is that COVID also causes blood clotting, so if say 8 people in the USA for example were diagnosed with blood clotting vs millions having been vaccinated, the risk is very very low compared to taking your chances with COVID.

Just my opinion weighing up the science, i.e. there is always a risk with vaccinations but miniscule to say the least.

Either way, it's up to each individual to decide what path is best for them, roll the dice as they say, I will take my chances being vaccinated, but will hold on for as long as I can for the J & J vaccine, even though there are still risks with vaccines as mentioned earlier.

https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/lab-report/new-cause-of-covid-19-blood-clots-identified

Edited March 20, 2021 by 4MyEgo

[4MyEgo]

16 hours ago, Meat Pie 47 said:

So will I, where I live we never had any local infection for over 11 months I am not an anti vaccer and I am due for my flu shot shortly

I too am due for my flu shot come May, and also the Pneumonia booster, suffice to say, you might want to research into the Pneumonia jab if your over 60 with underlying condition/s or 65 as they say you should get one every 5 years followed by the booster a year later.

The above said, I read an article stating something on the lines that it could decrease your chances of getting Covid as it also targets the respiratory area and I did read that 50 odd thousand people in Thailand died from Pneumonia in 2017, so makes Covid look mild all things considered. 

[placeholder]

16 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

I'll take my chances with no vaccine. Thanks. 

 

It's your right to not be vaccinated just as it's your right to invest in the lottery to get rich. It doesn't make sense mathematically, though.

[mommysboy]

If this was happening in wide swathes of the population then we might conclude it is a problem with the medicine.

As it is occurring in a tiny proportion of people, we really should ask what is wrong with them that they react in such a way. After all, we didn't suddenly ban it because a tiny minority had a severe allergic reaction.

That is not to say there isn't a problem, and it needs to be sorted.

We need to know about other issues, eg, prior covid19 infection, obesity and other co-morbidities, contraindications with other medications, etc.

It would help if we could identify the people at risk.

All medicines have black label side effects.

These are new vaccinations- they will become more refined, but for now caution must be recommended for women, under 50, who are clearly not in anything but A1 health.

Perspective is important.

[mommysboy]

20 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

That's nice if the patient lives in urban area close to  urgent care facility. However, the benefit of  the AZ vaccine is that it is best used for hard to reach places, rural areas, where  urgent medical care is far away. By the time someone realizes they have brain blood clot and and can get to care, I think body will be stiff and cold.

So far German study suggest this is specific to German experience and this may involve other factors as article highlights. Interesting that UK does not have same issue. Only two countries  other than EU are using AZ vaccine in large quantity I think; UK and Canada. UK would have picked up on this by now. Canada has political push for the vaccine so I don't think they will say anything. USA did not approve yet.

 

 

The AZ vaccine has been used mostly in the UK. It now stands at 16 million doses. However, it has been mainly used in older folk.

It's been a big success in Bangladesh so far.  I think the harsh fact about living in third world countries is that you don't make it to adulthood if have an auto-immune problem. I suspect the problem will be mostly confined to Europe and North America where frankly people aren't exactly fighting fit.

[Maestro]

Removed an incomprehensible post and the reply to it.

[2530Ubon]

Misleading headline indeed. There has been no link between the vaccine and blood clots. 17 million people have been vaccinated with the AstraZeneca shot - and there have been 15 events of DVT and 22 events of pulmonary embolism reported among those given the vaccine. This is much lower than would be expected to occur naturally in a general population of this size and is similar across other licensed COVID-19 vaccines.

The AstraZeneca vaccine is getting hammered across Europe. European leaders don't want to give it to their citizens, but at the same time they're screaming that the company isn't delivering the doses they said they could. France and Germany are the biggest culprits. Some of these countries are actually sitting on mountains of AstraZeneca doses - France has only used a QUARTER of it's doses.

First they said it was no good for older patients, only those under 65. Now they're insisting that only those aged over 55 should be given the AstraZeneca vaccine. They constantly moan about it's efficacy and change the rules on who should or shouldn't be given it on a weekly basis. With European leaders constantly knocking the vaccine, people will lose confidence in it. This is no good at all, we need as much of the population vaccinated as possible.

French President Emmanuel Macron has been roundly criticised for saying that AstraZeneca seemed to be ‘quasi-ineffective in over 65s’ – a view not backed up by France’s medical regulator which said only it was concerned at the initial lack of trial data.

Jacques Battistoni, head of the MG France doctors’ union, last week denounced widespread “AstraZeneca bashing” while the country’s vaccination coordinator, Alain Fischer, complained last week that the “bad press” surrounding the shot was “deeply unfair”.

Perhaps the French should be more humble. The Pasteur Institute has abandoned it's covid vaccine attempts, and the other French drugmaker, Sanofi, will not have any vaccines produced until the end of this year. Edward Jenner, the inventor of vaccines came from... the UK. We know what we're doing when it comes to vaccines, and we don't have issues vaccinating our population.

Sort it out Europe. I was gutted we voted to leave the EU, but I'm very glad we haven't been following their vaccine plan.

[Scott]

Here's another update for those interested:

 

Germany to restrict AstraZeneca use in under-60s over clots

By FRANK JORDANS Associated Press

March 30, 2021, 8:30 PM

 

BERLIN -- German health officials agreed Tuesday to restrict the use of AstraZeneca's coronavirus vaccine in people under 60, amid fresh concern over unusual blood clots reported in a tiny number of those who received the shots.

 

Health Minister Jens Spahn and state officials agreed unanimously to only give the vaccine to people aged 60 or older, unless they belong to a high-risk category for serious illness from COVID-19 and have agreed to take the vaccine despite the small risk of a serious side-effect. The same option will be available to anyone who gets the shot at their GP, which will start to become possible later this month.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/german-state-suspends-astrazeneca-vaccine-60s-76766477

 

[david555]

 

 

Just now today Tuesday 06 april

(And now for another age groups AZ. could be BANNED , this now from British medical  source ????)

 
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1419392/astrazeneca-vaccine-uk-ban-blood-clots-investigation-MHRA-covid-vaccine-latest-uk-lockdown

AstraZeneca vaccines could be BANNED for young Britons - UK investigates rare blood clots
ASTRAZENECA vaccine could be banned for young people with the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) investigating rare blood clots experienced by those receiving the jab.
By PAUL WITHERS
PUBLISHED: 07:51, Tue, Apr 6, 2021 | UPDATED: 09:01, Tue, Apr 6, 2021

PUBLChannel 4 News said in its report on Monday evening: “Two senior sources have told this programme that while the data is still unclear there are growing arguments to justify offering younger people — below the age of 30 at the very least — a different vaccine." The channel claimed an announcement could come from the MHRA later today. The MHRA has released a statement confirming it is investigating the blood clots but added no decision had “yet” been taken on changing its advice.

 

more...
 

Edited April 6, 2021 by david555

[david555]

On 3/19/2021 at 10:17 PM, NCC1701A said:

I'll take my chances with no vaccine. Thanks. 

 

Understandable as of this news just spread , now advised  young people should not get AZ......

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1419392/astrazeneca-vaccine-uk-ban-blood-clots-investigation-MHRA-covid-vaccine-latest-uk-lockdown

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by david555

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, david555 said:

Understandable as of this news just spread , now advised  young people should not get AZ......

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1419392/astrazeneca-vaccine-uk-ban-blood-clots-investigation-MHRA-covid-vaccine-latest-uk-lockdown

 

 

Wait a minute! Under 30's is not as strict as under 50's- so what are you banging on about?

 

All the vaccines will reveal dangers.

 

 

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post (incomprehensible post)

[talahtnut]

It would appear that the loonys and conspiracy theorists were right,

I just hope there are no longer term complications over this unique

and experimental medication for those that have been inoculated.