US Social Security @ 62 or?

[Yellowtail]

For anyone not working, or working and earning less than about $18K a year it makes little sense to not start collecting at 62. 

[ubonjoe]

40 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Who are we talking about here? I had a perfectly researched article comparing age 62 to 70 initiation of SS -- without any politics -- and it was removed. Plus, it gave food for thought for those expats married to Thais that don't qualify for SS. I know we can't criticize the mods -- but sometimes it's necessary.....

You post was not part of that group of posts. it appears you was removed for baiting that started a bickering session.

[Pib]

I had a 1st cousin who started SS at 62 and he definitely didn't need the money as he had a pension from his job, a nice nest-egg of savings, and continued to make some income from this small farm.   

However, he knew the men on his father's side of family had short life spans....cancer, heart attack, or stroke got most of them in their 60s and early 70's to include his younger brother who died of a heart attack in his 50's and his father who died of cancer in his 60's. 

 

My cousin strongly believed he too wouldn't live past his early 70's when he made his decision to start SS at 62.  

 

He was right....when 68 he was diagnosed with a very aggressive form of lung cancer (seemed to appear almost overnight and he had regular checkups due to heart problems)....he didn't make it to his 69th birthday.  

 

This is an example where some people start SS early simply because they are convinced their life span will be significantly shorter than the average life span and they want to get back the money they put in before checking out.  Of course they hope they will be wrong but their gut tells them otherwise.  

 

[JimGant]

56 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

it appears you was removed for baiting that started a bickering session.

Of course there's bickering..... There are just too many conflicting factors to come to a solid conclusion on whether or not early vs late initiation of SS is best. That's why any article that gives food for thought on this subject is important for those yet to make the decision. And my article is particularly pertinent for expats here in Thailand with Thai wives. For these folks, reposting my article would be particularly helpful.

[GinBoy2]

So, the upshot of all of these 7 pages is that none of us really know what the future holds! You could live to 100.

Or end up diagnosed with a terminal disease tomorrow, or as happened very recently to a friend ended up having an accident on his mountain bike and dead at 65!

 

I just ran the numbers on the ssa website.

 

The numbers for me:

 

62: $1871

64: $2151

66: $2667

70: $3362

 

So I'm figuring I'll head for the middle ground at 64.

Not a chance in Hell I'm leaving it until 70, but the difference between full entitlement at 66 and 64, seems a worthwhile bargain

 

 

Edited April 11, 2021 by GinBoy2

[Damrongsak]

44 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

... 

So I'm figuring I'll head for the middle ground at 64.

Not a chance in Hell I'm leaving it until 70, but the difference between full entitlement at 66 and 64, seems a worthwhile bargain

AFIK, until you reach 70, they will reduce &/or tax your Social Security payments depending on your current income.  Not sure if that's income or actual employment. Beware. 

 

You're right up there near the top of the SS payout, as is my Mom.  I'm a couple hundred a month lower. 

Edited April 11, 2021 by Damrongsak

[meechai]

3 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

So, the upshot of all of these 7 pages is that none of us really know what the future holds! You could live to 100.

Or end up diagnosed with a terminal disease tomorrow, or as happened very recently to a friend ended up having an accident on his mountain bike and dead at 65!

 

I just ran the numbers on the ssa website.

 

The numbers for me:

 

62: $1871

64: $2151

66: $2667

70: $3362

 

So I'm figuring I'll head for the middle ground at 64.

Not a chance in Hell I'm leaving it until 70, but the difference between full entitlement at 66 and 64, seems a worthwhile bargain

 

 

 

Use 83 exit many do????

 

So

$1871 @62 = $471,492 @ 83

$2151 @ 64 = $490,428 @ 83

$2667@66 = $544,068 @ 83

3362@70 = $524,472 @ 83

 

Not much diff eh? ????

 

Edited April 11, 2021 by meechai

[EVENKEEL]

3 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

So, the upshot of all of these 7 pages is that none of us really know what the future holds! You could live to 100.

Or end up diagnosed with a terminal disease tomorrow, or as happened very recently to a friend ended up having an accident on his mountain bike and dead at 65!

 

I just ran the numbers on the ssa website.

 

The numbers for me:

 

62: $1871

64: $2151

66: $2667

70: $3362

 

So I'm figuring I'll head for the middle ground at 64.

Not a chance in Hell I'm leaving it until 70, but the difference between full entitlement at 66 and 64, seems a worthwhile bargain

 

 

Just to be clear those numbers are relying on you continuing to work and make relatively the same income.

[meechai]

2 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Just to be clear those numbers are relying on you continuing to work and make relatively the same income.

 

That was actually part of the reason I stopped working

When I was 56 I used their calculator & said ok if I keep working x more years at xxx,xxx per year how much

more will I get? Did not change at all

I said well ok then  ???? Your not getting another penny off me either

[GinBoy2]

14 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Just to be clear those numbers are relying on you continuing to work and make relatively the same income.

I am 62, so nothing will make a material change between now and when I'm 66

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

I am 62, so nothing will make a material change between now and when I'm 66

 

Put them them all in a spread sheet and see where your break even point is.

 

Do you have kids in school? If so, they get benefits at least until 18. If you are in the US I think this may be 26. 

 

I think you are living in the US and your wife your wife is Thai yes? If you die before you start drawing she may not be entitled to anything. I don't know, but you should look into it. 

 

Also, if you're drawing down on your savings and it is reasonably well invested, you could be much better off leaving that invested and drawing SS. If you pull $60 out of an IRA you likely take a tax hit. If you pull $40K from an IRA and $20K in Social Security you do not.

[Yellowtail]

7 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

AFIK, until you reach 70, they will reduce &/or tax your Social Security payments depending on your current income.  Not sure if that's income or actual employment. Beware. 

 

You're right up there near the top of the SS payout, as is my Mom.  I'm a couple hundred a month lower. 

 

It is not all income, but yes, defiantly beware. Drawing down on a traditional IRA or 401K, that money is taxable as income, but (as I understand it) it is not counted as income against your Social Security payments. 

 

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

It is not all income, but yes, defiantly beware. Drawing down on a traditional IRA or 401K, that money is taxable as income, but (as I understand it) it is not counted as income against your Social Security payments. 

 

Yes.

That is income but not working income so it wouldn't risk s.s. penalties. 

[Pib]

10 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

AFIK, until you reach 70, they will reduce &/or tax your Social Security payments depending on your current income.  Not sure if that's income or actual employment. Beware. 

 

You're right up there near the top of the SS payout, as is my Mom.  I'm a couple hundred a month lower. 

 

Just because you turn 70 does change how much tax you pay on your social security payments.

 

https://www.schwab.com/resource-center/insights/content/does-working-past-age-70-affect-your-social-security-benefits

Quote

But while Uncle Sam gives you a bonus for waiting to collect Social Security benefits, he doesn't give you a dispensation from paying Social Security taxes. As long as you have earned income (such as wages), you're required to pay Social Security taxes on up to the annual payroll limitation—$137,700 in 2020. So, yes, if you continue to work, you'll continue to pay into Social Security and other payroll taxes. Fortunately for you, since you're past your full retirement age (FRA), there's no benefit reduction based on income. You're entitled to full benefits no matter your income level. However, earned income may impact your benefit if you take Social Security before your FRA.

 

 

And regarding a reduction of social security payment if still working that only applies when you have not reach you full retirement age which is around 66-67 for most folks right now and exceed a certain income limit which is $18,960 for 2021.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/will-i-get-penalized-working-while-collecting-social-security-retirement.html#:~:text=If you are collecting Social,full Social Security retirement benefit.

 

Quote

 

Limits on Earned Income If Claiming Early Benefits

Until you reach full retirement age, Social Security will subtract money from your retirement check if you exceed a certain amount of earned income for the year. For the year 2021, this limit on earned income is $18,960 ($1,580 per month). The amount goes up each year. If you are collecting Social Security retirement benefits before full retirement age, your benefits are reduced by $1 for every $2 you earn over the limit. Once you reach full retirement age, there is no limit on the amount of money you may earn and still receive your full Social Security retirement benefit.

 

 

[GinBoy2]

4 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

I think you are living in the US and your wife your wife is Thai yes? If you die before you start drawing she may not be entitled to anything. I don't know, but you should look into it. 

 

The survivor benefit thing also figures into my 64 decision.

 

She needs to have been a green card holder for 5 years, which is right on my 64 year old mark, and she'll be 57 at that point when she reaches 60 she can receive survivor benefits, should I decide to depart this world

 

I also, not for monetary reasons want to keep working for a few more years, since sitting at home doing nothing bores the Hell outta me, plus I like the flight benefits I get working for an airline.

 

I work for Delta, and right now I'd lose ss on that $2:$1 rule. So I'll lag it out to 64, reduce my hours to get within the threshold, then at 66 should I still want to, up the hours again

Edited April 12, 2021 by GinBoy2

[Rhys]

20 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

For anyone not working, or working and earning less than about $18K a year it makes little sense to not start collecting at 62. 

Drawing at 62 over time the numbers win over time...more time to receive the money.

[HuskerDo]

On 4/8/2021 at 8:51 AM, sirineou said:

The cost of living (COLA) for 2020    1.3 and it is projected to be the same for 2021 but who knows , Mine went up $20.60  LOL,   big woopty do!!

Consumer prices in the US for March will be out tomorrow. I'll let you know how they look. I still think the path of least resistance is to the upside.

  

[HuskerDo]

On 4/6/2021 at 9:53 PM, ubonjoe said:

You can do the estimation of your benefits on this page. https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/estimator.html

You do not have to register for "My Social Security" to do the estimate.

In the past you could not access "My Social Security" outside of the US. They said they were working on a way to allow such a thing but not sure if it's been implemented yet or what the workaround would be.  They have some very good security on that site so you should feel safe using it even from afar.

 

   

[HuskerDo]

On 4/11/2021 at 7:31 AM, Yellowtail said:

For anyone not working, or working and earning less than about $18K a year it makes little sense to not start collecting at 62. 

VERY true. I worked for about a year after starting my SS. They took less than 10% out of my paycheck for taxes and I got it all back when I filed. It was just a part-time job but having another $300 a week was nice. Gave it all up when Covid arrived. $300 a week wasn't enough to get me out in the public again.

[HuskerDo]

On 4/11/2021 at 3:08 PM, GinBoy2 said:

So, the upshot of all of these 7 pages is that none of us really know what the future holds! You could live to 100.

Or end up diagnosed with a terminal disease tomorrow, or as happened very recently to a friend ended up having an accident on his mountain bike and dead at 65!

 

I just ran the numbers on the ssa website.

 

The numbers for me:

 

62: $1871

64: $2151

66: $2667

70: $3362

 

So I'm figuring I'll head for the middle ground at 64.

Not a chance in Hell I'm leaving it until 70, but the difference between full entitlement at 66 and 64, seems a worthwhile bargain

 

 

A bit lower than mine but not by much($100 or so at 62). I looked at what I'd be getting at age 70 and figured I'd be secure at that point even if I had no savings or other retirement/pension income  but I did have both of those things. Ultimately I asked myself if I had enough to live a good life at 62 with everything or should I wait. It took no time to figure out that enjoying a stress free life at 62 while waking up whenever I did and not have to rush off to deal with arrogant a-holes and clueless management was the route I'd take. NO regrets. When the occasional call came with people from work asking how to fix a problem I'd simply respond.... "I don't work there anymore. Had I been treated better I might have stayed but at this point I can't and won't help you do my old job".   Felt good! 

[ubonjoe]

7 hours ago, HuskerDo said:

In the past you could not access "My Social Security" outside of the US. They said they were working on a way to allow such a thing but not sure if it's been implemented yet or what the workaround would be.

It can be accessed from outside the US if registered. The problem is registering for it is the problem for many people. You have to have a US address that that can be verified on a credit report site.

[GinBoy2]

4 hours ago, HuskerDo said:

A bit lower than mine but not by much($100 or so at 62). I looked at what I'd be getting at age 70 and figured I'd be secure at that point even if I had no savings or other retirement/pension income  but I did have both of those things. Ultimately I asked myself if I had enough to live a good life at 62 with everything or should I wait. It took no time to figure out that enjoying a stress free life at 62 while waking up whenever I did and not have to rush off to deal with arrogant a-holes and clueless management was the route I'd take. NO regrets. When the occasional call came with people from work asking how to fix a problem I'd simply respond.... "I don't work there anymore. Had I been treated better I might have stayed but at this point I can't and won't help you do my old job".   Felt good! 

This is one of those 'only in America' things,

 

After reading all of this the 62 option does sound good, except.

 

I switched my benefits from my wife's plan to me.

 

Now if I reduced my hours to get rid of the ss penalty, I wouldn't be eligible for health benefits and would have to go back on hers.

 

But of course there is a 90 day waiting period, and Murphy's law tends to suggest that if the sh**t is gonna hit the fan it'll be within those 90 days

Edited April 13, 2021 by GinBoy2

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

This is one of those 'only in America' things,

 

After reading all of this the 62 option does sound good, except.

 

I switched my benefits from my wife's plan to me.

 

Now if I reduced my hours to get rid of the ss penalty, I wouldn't be eligible for health benefits and would have to go back on hers.

 

But of course there is a 90 day waiting period, and Murphy's law tends to suggest that if the sh**t is gonna hit the fan it'll be within those 90 days

 

If you're still working, you make good dough and you still like going in most everyday, keep working. 

 

We had a big structure change where my plants that used to report up to the US had to start reporting up to Hong Kong which turned into a G-F for me, and I was left with the option or relocating or getting out. I got out. 

 

Missed working and the people for a couple months, but in retrospect it could not have happened at a better time.  

 

I don't "need" the money, but I do like money and when I ran the numbers, waiting just did not make sense. The almost fifteen hundred a month my son gets until he's eighteen is just icing on the cake....

 

[meechai]

17 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

since sitting at home doing nothing bores the Hell outta me

 

It is funny & this may be true for you but...You have probably heard this from many retired folks myself included

"Now that I'm retired...I don't know how I ever had time to work" ????

 

There is so much to life

 

Lastly the most amazing thing to me in recent years is seeing family & friends sell the one thing they cannot buy more of...

Their Time

 

 

[HuskerDo]

20 hours ago, HuskerDo said:

Consumer prices in the US for March will be out tomorrow. I'll let you know how they look. I still think the path of least resistance is to the upside.

  

Consumer prices in the US for March were up 0.6% versus the expected 0.5%. Year over year prices are up 2.6%. That's good for my Social Security and pension increases next year.

[GinBoy2]

On 4/12/2021 at 7:23 PM, meechai said:

 

It is funny & this may be true for you but...You have probably heard this from many retired folks myself included

"Now that I'm retired...I don't know how I ever had time to work" ????

 

There is so much to life

 

Lastly the most amazing thing to me in recent years is seeing family & friends sell the one thing they cannot buy more of...

Their Time

 

 

Maybe if any of our delinquent children would actually step up and deliver Grandchildren I might reconsider sitting at home doing nothing, other than spoiling grand kids.

 

The two that live closest to us in Denver are a bust.

I've given up on my oldest daughter, and my Thai son is too damn handsome and is enjoying life too much.

My great hope is my youngest daughter, but of course she's in San Diego

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by GinBoy2

[cmarshall]

On 4/11/2021 at 8:02 PM, Pib said:

I had a 1st cousin who started SS at 62 and he definitely didn't need the money as he had a pension from his job, a nice nest-egg of savings, and continued to make some income from this small farm.   

However, he knew the men on his father's side of family had short life spans....cancer, heart attack, or stroke got most of them in their 60s and early 70's to include his younger brother who died of a heart attack in his 50's and his father who died of cancer in his 60's. 

 

My cousin strongly believed he too wouldn't live past his early 70's when he made his decision to start SS at 62.  

 

He was right....when 68 he was diagnosed with a very aggressive form of lung cancer (seemed to appear almost overnight and he had regular checkups due to heart problems)....he didn't make it to his 69th birthday.  

 

This is an example where some people start SS early simply because they are convinced their life span will be significantly shorter than the average life span and they want to get back the money they put in before checking out.  Of course they hope they will be wrong but their gut tells them otherwise.  

 

 

For most people without a terminal diagnosis, predicting your own lifespan is a fool's errand.  Your friend with the eventual diagnosis of lung cancer correctly predicted his shortened lifespan in the way you sometimes correctly predict a coin toss.

 

Here's a clip from an article about how doctors cannot usefully predict whether an 80-year-old might benefit from a colonoscopy or not, even though they have a lot more information on the patient than a 62-year-old SS benefit claimant is likely to have.

 

A lot of people when face with risks that they cannot predict just decide to make a guess and then act as though they know something that they don't know.  The temptation is that if we did know how long we have to live then a lot of difficult decisions would become trivial.  But we don't know.

 

Given the growing use of age-based treatment and preventive care guidelines, the doctors assumed there would be plenty of data to help decide whether, for example, an 80-year-old patient might live long enough to benefit from a colonoscopy, a cancer screening procedure that can have its own set of complications.

But they found little.

 

Prognosis was rarely, if ever, alluded to in the most popular medical textbooks and on clinical Web sites used by practicing physicians. Even the widely used medical database PubMed, maintained by the National Library of Medicine, had no specific indexing category for prognosis, making finding any published study on the subject like searching for a book in a library before the Dewey Decimal System.

 

While the researchers were finally able to single out 16 indexes that hold promise in helping doctors predict how long a patient might live, there was “insufficient evidence at this time” to recommend any of them for widespread clinical use.

 

https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/19/why-doctors-cant-predict-how-long-a-patient-will-live/

 

[cmarshall]

On 4/13/2021 at 7:38 PM, HuskerDo said:

Consumer prices in the US for March were up 0.6% versus the expected 0.5%. Year over year prices are up 2.6%. That's good for my Social Security and pension increases next year.

 

Possibly, but not certainly.  Our SS COLA for 2022 will be determined only by the US rate of inflation for July, August, and September of this year.  The SSA will announce the new COLA in October.

[cmarshall]

On 4/13/2021 at 7:21 AM, ubonjoe said:

It can be accessed from outside the US if registered. The problem is registering for it is the problem for many people. You have to have a US address that that can be verified on a credit report site.

 

Which prompts the question how can one get his US address on a credit report?   My wife hasn't been able to open an SSA account despite having a US mailing address.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

Which prompts the question how can one get his US address on a credit report?   My wife hasn't been able to open an SSA account despite having a US mailing address.

Open a bank account or apply for a credit card maybe.

They have a new way to sign in on the site but it may not help either. I tried and got as far as them wanting a US number for them to send a message with a link to a online video chat to confirm my identity.

Source: https://secure.ssa.gov/RIL/SiView.action