Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[DrJoy]

16 minutes ago, Arkady said:

Maybe you know him but I only know the details in the RG announcement. So I don't know, if he was warned or if he attempted to appeal the decision like the Chinese couple.  Since they used section 17 on him he was clearly Thai through birth in Thailand and I would argue that situation would now be covered by the 2017 constitution which prohibits involuntary revocation in the case of those Thai through birth. Of course they might argue that Thai through birth means birth to a Thai parent but that is not what the constitution says. Most likely he was born to expat parents and for, all we know, he might not have cared about his Thai nationality.  He might have been brought up in the UK and lived his life there and just came to Thailand on holiday without bothering to renew his Thai passport or maybe never even had one. Of course it would be tragic if he was living in Thailand and just didn't have his Thai passport handy for some reason.

 

Some of you may recall the case a few years go of a naturalised Thai scientist who was having one of those terrible defamation rows with a well connected Thai.  His opponent was unaware he was a naturalised Thai and disgustingly used his connections to have Immigration blacklist him.  As luck would have it he was on a trip where he lost his Thai passport.  Since he couldn't be bothered to delay his return trip by several days while he went to a Thai embassy to get a new passport, he decided to travel back on his farang passport, not knowing about the Immigration blacklist or of the risks to a naturalised Thai or using the farang passport.  When he arrived, all hell broke loose and he was arrested and told he was to be deported.  But Immigration was stunned by his claim that he was actually Thai.  He was held in the airport for about three days while he got irrevocable evidence of his Thainess but no one ever threatened him with revocation.      

The crux of it is that,  these rules are rarely enforced

[Dogmatix]

36 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

that revoked Brit appeared determined to endlessly mock his Thai Passport, despite official warnings.

If so he then received his just desserts. 

It seems that all that is known about him is what was announced in the RG. So how can you say he mocked his Thai passport or even that he ever had one? He might have moved back the UK aged one or two and never had one. Why do you think he would have received any official warnings? The announcement doesn't say that. 

[GarryP]

8 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I am buying a house soon and want to put it in my name, rather than my wife's.

If, for any reason, my Thai citizenship was revoked, what would happen to my house/land?

Is this risk of losing my property worth worrying about?

Revocation never entered my mind when I bought a house. I never even gave it a thought. 

[GarryP]

5 hours ago, mvdf said:

Disturbing arbitrariness. So before doing (literally) anything, a naturalized Thai should first check what the law says about it and be on his or her best behaviour at all times. Nice.  

I don't go out of my way to break the law so it really is not a worry to me. In the past 35 years or so I have received two official fines from traffic police and that is it. It is not a matter of being on your best behaviour at all times.  

 

I wouldn't over think things. I do not believe for a minute that the authorities are out looking for any excuse to revoke Thai citizenship. If you just get on with life you will be fine.    

 

FYI, since I obtained my Thai passport and updated my bank accounts, I have never used my British passport in Thailand, with the sole exception of showing the airline check-in desk staff when traveling to a country that requires Thais to have valid visas, but not UK passport holders.

[mvdf]

11 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I don't go out of my way to break the law so it really is not a worry to me. In the past 35 years or so I have received two official fines from traffic police and that is it. It is not a matter of being on your best behaviour at all times.  

 

I wouldn't over think things. I do not believe for a minute that the authorities are out looking for any excuse to revoke Thai citizenship. If you just get on with life you will be fine.    

 

FYI, since I obtained my Thai passport and updated my bank accounts, I have never used my British passport in Thailand, with the sole exception of showing the airline check-in desk staff when traveling to a country that requires Thais to have valid visas, but not UK passport holders.

May I ask how this works with exit/entry as a Thai citizen of foreign lineage.  You exit Thailand with your Thai passport (the passport you show Thai immigration). What happens if they (immigration or the airline) check for a visa on the Thai passport during check in and clearance formalities and don't see one (as you intend to enter the UK with your British passport) ? Do you reveal your UK passport? I'm genuinely curious. ????

 

 

[GarryP]

2 minutes ago, mvdf said:

May I ask how this works with exit/entry as a Thai citizen of foreign lineage.  You exit Thailand with your Thai passport (the passport you show Thai immigration). What happens if they (immigration or the airline) check for a visa on the Thai passport during check in and clearance formalities and don't see one (as you intend to enter the UK with your British passport) ? Do you reveal your UK passport? I'm genuinely curious. ????

 

 

Firstly, I haven't travelled during covid, so I was always able to use the electronic gates. However, since covid, apparently the gates are not in operation and you have to show your passport to an immigration officer. Please see the recent posts from about a week ago on this by other posters (I forget who posted on this). 

 

In my case, when checking in the airline staff need to see your passport. They will check for a valid visa if required by the destination country and if you don't have one, they won't check you in. So when travelling to the UK I present both my Thai and UK passports. Once checked in, I put away my UK passport and then go through the electronic gates.   

[kst]

A little bit off-topic. Is there a visa for parents of naturalized thai citizens? My parents can get 30 days but they would like to stay longer and spend more time with their granddaughter as I havent brought her back in recent times due to covid-19. 

 

Besides retirement visa, are they eligible for non o (visit thai family?) I read somewhere that this particular visa is applicable only for children who are minors (less than 21 yrs old) and i am obviously older than that. 

 

Tried searching the forum with no luck so just trying my luck to see if anyone here knows.. 

 

Sorry for the off-topic post..

[Arkady]

8 hours ago, onthemoon said:

I believe they changed a law and now foreigners can own up to 1 rai of land if they inherited it (from example from their wife). I'm not a legal expert, so you might want to double-check this.

In the unlikely event that you lose your Thai nationality, you might want to check if that law applies somehow also to you too. 

That provision is in the 1954 Land Code and was there since the beginning but it is now redundant because it was contingent on the treaties Thailand had with various foreign countries allowing their nationals to own land in Thailand ostensibly on a reciprocal basis.  If you were a national of one of these countries you were able to inherit land in the same way that you could buy land, with the approval of the minister which was not always easy to get.  Thailand never liked this aspect of the treaties which were somewhat imposed on it because Thais figured out that they could own land in most of those countries without the treaties.  Apart from the US Amity Treaty all the rest were revoked by the early 70s and the US was persuaded to delete the clause about land ownership from its treaty.

 

The status quo is that the land of a deceased Thai national goes into the estate and the estate of a Thai is also considered Thai.  The executors have 12 months to dispose of the land and give the proceeds to the foreign heirs.  In practice, if there is just one foreign heir, such as a spouse,  I guess it would be possible to give up the right to the land to a Thai citizen who could act as nominee, if the heir wanted to continue living in the house and had a trustworthy Thai nominee. 

[Arkady]

Re Neeranam's question about what happens if own land and lose Thai nationality, I shudder to consider this.  Probably you are expected to divest yourself of it but I don't think this case is actually specified in the Land Code which prohibits transfer of land to foreigners.  You might be able to hang on to it, unless someone complains.  If you wanted to sell it, you could probably use a copy of your idea card while the Land Department still accepts photocopies of ID cards and doesn't put the ID card in a smart reader.  You could do this until the expiry date of your ID card and if it happened when you were over 70, you would have a lifetime ID card as they don't bother renewing them after that.  Anyway it would be a potentially precarious situation.  

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, mvdf said:

May I ask how this works with exit/entry as a Thai citizen of foreign lineage.  You exit Thailand with your Thai passport (the passport you show Thai immigration). What happens if they (immigration or the airline) check for a visa on the Thai passport during check in and clearance formalities and don't see one (as you intend to enter the UK with your British passport) ? Do you reveal your UK passport? I'm genuinely curious. ????

I think you would have to, if you want to get past him and get to the plane.  His argument would be that he needs to know you can enter the other country, even though that is the airline's job.

 

There are other threads describing the reverse case where Thais living abroad enter on a blank Thai passport that they got from their local Thai embassy.  The IO can see they must have a foreign passport as there is no visa or exit stamp in the Thai passport and may ask to see the foreign passport.  Sometimes the IO has delivered a BS lecture about not being allowed two passports and insisted that anyone with a foreign passport is a foreigner who must enter Thailand on a foreign passport.  Assuming it is the passport of a country that is allowed a transit visa  (pre-COVID) the IO has occasionially sullenly banged a transit visa into the foreign passport before the traveller understood what his game was.  They may then be stuck with visa extensions or overstay fines. Most of the people harassed in this way have been Thais naturalised as aliens or look krung and have nothing to fear.  So they can just stand their ground and refuse to show the IO the foreign passport on the grounds that they have a constitutional right to enter on their Thai passport and there is no need for the IO to see the foreign passport.  In all cases of this type if the traveller demanded to see the supervisor, the situation was resolved with an apology and an entry stamp in the Thai passport.  

 

[Lacrimas]

So, now the cabinet seems to be removing the 4 Thai/1 Foreigner requirement to obtain a WP. Looks like I can have my wife opening the company and hire me without additional hassle? (If this is true OC)

[kst]

On 9/14/2021 at 8:53 AM, kst said:

Just a quick update that khet called and made an appointment for this Wednesday to move into blue tabien baan and get new Thai ID. 

 

Hopefully everything goes smoothly.. 

Reached khet at 08:30am as per appointment and got myself moved to blue tabien baan + thai ID issued by noon with no further hiccups.

 

Then sent required docs to HR so they will update revenue department, social security, group insurance on my behalf. Also asked them to cancel WP. 

 

Thereafter went to update driving license and also got an appointment for passport for 21st Sept at Chaeng Wattana. Purposely chose this place so I can also head to immigration to cancel visa on the same day. 

 

Long day but quite satisfied with the amount of things done. Will leave the rest for another day.. 

[GarryP]

29 minutes ago, kst said:

Reached khet at 08:30am as per appointment and got myself moved to blue tabien baan + thai ID issued by noon with no further hiccups.

 

Then sent required docs to HR so they will update revenue department, social security, group insurance on my behalf. Also asked them to cancel WP. 

 

Thereafter went to update driving license and also got an appointment for passport for 21st Sept at Chaeng Wattana. Purposely chose this place so I can also head to immigration to cancel visa on the same day. 

 

Long day but quite satisfied with the amount of things done. Will leave the rest for another day.. 

Congrats. I had renewed my annual visa for years at Chaengwattana for many years, but the last extension was done at Chamchuri One Stop Center as I had changed to extend based on employment rather than marriage. Foolishly, I went to Chaeng first thing in the morning to cancel my visa and was kept hanging around until about 2p.m. before being told that I had to cancel my visa at Chamchuri. A mad dash across town by taxi with heavy traffic and I managed to get the very last queue number for that day and get my visa cancelled.   

[kst]

30 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Congrats. I had renewed my annual visa for years at Chaengwattana for many years, but the last extension was done at Chamchuri One Stop Center as I had changed to extend based on employment rather than marriage. Foolishly, I went to Chaeng first thing in the morning to cancel my visa and was kept hanging around until about 2p.m. before being told that I had to cancel my visa at Chamchuri. A mad dash across town by taxi with heavy traffic and I managed to get the very last queue number for that day and get my visa cancelled.   

Thanks! It seemed not too long ago when I had to park at Central and walk over in the heat over to SB. Its been a process filled with red tape, but a worthwhile process. 

 

To all those who are going to apply / already applied, just have patience and dont worry too much.. you will get to the finishing line soon!

[yankee99]

1 hour ago, kst said:

Reached khet at 08:30am as per appointment and got myself moved to blue tabien baan + thai ID issued by noon with no further hiccups.

 

Then sent required docs to HR so they will update revenue department, social security, group insurance on my behalf. Also asked them to cancel WP. 

 

Thereafter went to update driving license and also got an appointment for passport for 21st Sept at Chaeng Wattana. Purposely chose this place so I can also head to immigration to cancel visa on the same day. 

 

Long day but quite satisfied with the amount of things done. Will leave the rest for another day.. 

Im also tying up loose ends. Went to Jomtien immigration to cancel my visa and forgot how much i detested it. It was always demeaning in the past with the interrogation and personal photos year after year for ten years. 

 

Well they kept true to their demeaning ways. Went in got my queue and as my number was called my customary wai and presented my passport and id card.  When she asked what I wanted i asked her to cancel my visa. She looked and looked and looked at my id card and finally said "where did you get this" i mean <deleted> did she think i got it on khao san rd? my reply "same place you got yours" after that there were 4 others meeting with her like we were going to war god forbid i wouldn't have to be sent to the xerox machine for another 40 pages of copies. I sat in my chair played with my phone trying to keep calm knowing its almost over. After about 30 minutes my passport was returned with a half page handwritten note about not be on a marriage visa and being a thai citizen. 

[qualtrough]

We just had the good news that those swearing their oath in August last year have now had their names appear in the RG. Historically, I believe the interval from oath to RG was something more like 3 months, so 1 year was quite a wait. I may have this all wrong, so if so please feel free to correct.  But here's my question. Is it likely that people who took their oath a few months back will be waiting a year as well, or is there any chance it might be quicker for the next batch?

[Arkady]

18 minutes ago, qualtrough said:

We just had the good news that those swearing their oath in August last year have now had their names appear in the RG. Historically, I believe the interval from oath to RG was something more like 3 months, so 1 year was quite a wait. I may have this all wrong, so if so please feel free to correct.  But here's my question. Is it likely that people who took their oath a few months back will be waiting a year as well, or is there any chance it might be quicker for the next batch?

I don't think there is a set time after oath taking. I think first of all the list just sits in someone's in tray waiting to be signed for sending to the RG.  Then once there they tend to sit on it for some time which you can see from the gap between signing the order and publication date in the RG which can be up to 5 months but that is very unusual.  It is more likely 2-3 months.  In the case of a coup they can publish a new constitution in the RG the very next day.

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, kst said:

Reached khet at 08:30am as per appointment and got myself moved to blue tabien baan + thai ID issued by noon with no further hiccups.

 

Then sent required docs to HR so they will update revenue department, social security, group insurance on my behalf. Also asked them to cancel WP. 

 

Thereafter went to update driving license and also got an appointment for passport for 21st Sept at Chaeng Wattana. Purposely chose this place so I can also head to immigration to cancel visa on the same day. 

 

Long day but quite satisfied with the amount of things done. Will leave the rest for another day.. 

Congrats.  I have never bothered to change my driving license or tell them I changed my nationality to Thai.  The license already had  my 8 prefix ID number I got with PR and it doesn't specify nationality.  So I couldn't be bothered.  It is a lifetime license, so it's been a few years now. I guess it has my nationality in the magnetic strip, if that actually works.  I think I will just leave it like that, unless I lose it or they revoke lifetime licenses which has sometime been threatened.  I think PRs who got 5 year licenses after they received PR and have their correct Thai ID numbers on them can just wait until they expire and give them their Thai nationality detailed when they have to renew.

[kst]

8 hours ago, Arkady said:

Congrats.  I have never bothered to change my driving license or tell them I changed my nationality to Thai.  The license already had  my 8 prefix ID number I got with PR and it doesn't specify nationality.  So I couldn't be bothered.  It is a lifetime license, so it's been a few years now. I guess it has my nationality in the magnetic strip, if that actually works.  I think I will just leave it like that, unless I lose it or they revoke lifetime licenses which has sometime been threatened.  I think PRs who got 5 year licenses after they received PR and have their correct Thai ID numbers on them can just wait until they expire and give them their Thai nationality detailed when they have to renew.

Mine was showing my passport number so I updated it as DLT branch was near to the khet. 

 

Do they still issue lifetime driving licenses here? Mine is for 10 years. I renewed once and you have to sit thru a 1 hr video showing gross accident videos, pass the colour test, braking test and the other test with the strings before they renew it for you. 

[khongaeng]

 

3 hours ago, kst said:

Mine was showing my passport number so I updated it as DLT branch was near to the khet. 

 

Do they still issue lifetime driving licenses here? Mine is for 10 years. I renewed once and you have to sit thru a 1 hr video showing gross accident videos, pass the colour test, braking test and the other test with the strings before they renew it for you. 

I thought licenses were good for only 5 years.  Do you recall how you got the 10 year?  As far as I understand, lifetime licenses stopped being issued around the year 2000.  If you got one before then, then you are golden.  Back when they were issued, they were simple pink cards with a small picture that you had to get laminated yourself.  I've always wondered how good their recording keeping from back then was, and if there would be some way to get one "retroactively"

[kst]

1 hour ago, khongaeng said:

 

I thought licenses were good for only 5 years.  Do you recall how you got the 10 year?  As far as I understand, lifetime licenses stopped being issued around the year 2000.  If you got one before then, then you are golden.  Back when they were issued, they were simple pink cards with a small picture that you had to get laminated yourself.  I've always wondered how good their recording keeping from back then was, and if there would be some way to get one "retroactively"

Hmmm you are right its probably for 5 yrs. The date of issue must be when the driving license was first issued, which probably caused my initial confusion. 

 

Issue date and expiry date on my license is >10 yrs apart so that must be it. 

 

Sorry for the confusion. 

[Dogmatix]

3 hours ago, khongaeng said:

 

I thought licenses were good for only 5 years.  Do you recall how you got the 10 year?  As far as I understand, lifetime licenses stopped being issued around the year 2000.  If you got one before then, then you are golden.  Back when they were issued, they were simple pink cards with a small picture that you had to get laminated yourself.  I've always wondered how good their recording keeping from back then was, and if there would be some way to get one "retroactively"

Right. The lifetime licenses were stopped in, I think 2003, but they warned a couple of years in advance which gave people like me enough time to get one.  Foreigners needed PR to get one which I had at that time. Actually I drove on international licenses for years which had the advantage fo being disposable and could be handed to traffic cops instead of paying a fine or bribe, if stopped for something. I wonder if my old collection is still various Bkk cop shops. I used to get several of these from different AA shops for 5 pounds each when I went to London and finally I got an open ended one as the clerk forgot to fill in the expiry date.  Then the company insurance company said it would no longer cover expat staff without Thai licenses, correctly citing the fact that Thailand never ratified the current international license agreement which means they are only valid for 3 months, as under the previous agreement that it did ratify. So I had to apply for a Thai license.  There was no driving test, just a colour test and medical certificate needed, if you had a valid license from a country they recognised. It was a paper thing, as you say, that wore out fast, if you didn't laminate it. The first one was for a year and after renewing it for another three years, I was eligible to apply for a lifetime license, still without ever having taken any type of driving test in Thailand. I remember that Thais in my office wouldn't get the lifetime license when the offer was about to expire because they didn't want to pay the higher fee. They must have paid a lot more in renewals by now. 

 

Showing a lifetime license to a cop usually gets instant respect, "Oho mee bay khap kkee dolort cheep duay ler."  In Ubon province I got that response from a police sergeant who was just stopping everyone for no particular reason.  So I followed up by showing him my ID card as well which made him ecstatic and he said in English, "Welcome to Dej Udom".  I was in the small town to look at a plot of land for sale.  The broker said we needed to pick up the seller on the way to point out the boundaries and told me to pull into the local police station.  Real small world.   The seller turned out to be the same police sergeant, so I had a friend for life.  He gave a good price on the land which I bought.   

Edited September 16, 2021 by Dogmatix

[qualtrough]

17 hours ago, Arkady said:

I don't think there is a set time after oath taking. I think first of all the list just sits in someone's in tray waiting to be signed for sending to the RG.  Then once there they tend to sit on it for some time which you can see from the gap between signing the order and publication date in the RG which can be up to 5 months but that is very unusual.  It is more likely 2-3 months.  In the case of a coup they can publish a new constitution in the RG the very next day.

Thank you. But didn't the latest names appearing in the RG wait a year for that? August to August?

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, qualtrough said:

Thank you. But didn't the latest names appearing in the RG wait a year for that? August to August?

I would assume that was a coincidence but, even if it were intentional, it could revert to norm, if new people took over at MoI and/or RG.  I can't think of any logical reason why a 12 month wait at that stage should be made mandatory but logic is not always a predominant characteristic in this process.

[Neeranam]

On 9/15/2021 at 7:13 PM, kst said:

Reached khet at 08:30am as per appointment and got myself moved to blue tabien baan + thai ID issued by noon with no further hiccups.

 

Then sent required docs to HR so they will update revenue department, social security, group insurance on my behalf. Also asked them to cancel WP. 

 

Thereafter went to update driving license and also got an appointment for passport for 21st Sept at Chaeng Wattana. Purposely chose this place so I can also head to immigration to cancel visa on the same day. 

 

Long day but quite satisfied with the amount of things done. Will leave the rest for another day.. 

Awesome, welcome to Thailand????????

[Neeranam]

On 9/15/2021 at 8:32 PM, yankee99 said:

Im also tying up loose ends. Went to Jomtien immigration to cancel my visa and forgot how much i detested it. It was always demeaning in the past with the interrogation and personal photos year after year for ten years. 

 

Well they kept true to their demeaning ways. Went in got my queue and as my number was called my customary wai and presented my passport and id card.  When she asked what I wanted i asked her to cancel my visa. She looked and looked and looked at my id card and finally said "where did you get this" i mean <deleted> did she think i got it on khao san rd? my reply "same place you got yours" after that there were 4 others meeting with her like we were going to war god forbid i wouldn't have to be sent to the xerox machine for another 40 pages of copies. I sat in my chair played with my phone trying to keep calm knowing its almost over. After about 30 minutes my passport was returned with a half page handwritten note about not be on a marriage visa and being a thai citizen. 

Congratulations, I thoroughly enjoyed going to immigration to cancel my visa.  

[Neeranam]

6 hours ago, qualtrough said:

Thank you. But didn't the latest names appearing in the RG wait a year for that? August to August?

Yes, I think this was due to Covid. I think this was a one off and the next will be faster.

[david143]

10 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Yes, I think this was due to Covid. I think this was a one off and the next will be faster.

next is NOV .
Hopefully there will no delay for other candidates just like us who wait for 1 year.

( MOI interviews are still stopped)

[heiri007]

10 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Congratulations, I thoroughly enjoyed going to immigration to cancel my visa.  

Words cannot express what I'd like to express. Supposed to be on the final meters - and the bureaucracy is simply astonishing.

 

Back in the Sowjet days - yes I did lot of things - when you bought a train or opera ticket in Moscow or elsewhere in the empire, there was this seller behind a small window. Powerless really, a seller of tickets. But impossible to be told what to do. You needed the ticket, and that person securely positioned behind that small window enjoyed the power over you.

 

Thai bureaucracy is similar. And the naturalization process tops it all. Take all the bureaucracy, red tape and potential chicanery  available - you'll meet them along the way. The ID process is a concentration of the good, the bad and the ugly of all Thai bureaucracy. Gladly, most Thai officials are forthcoming, warm-hearted, helpful and hard working. Yet I somehow always attract the exception that proves the rule. It somehow made me more buddhist. Patience, patience, patience.

 

Again, words cannot really express the whole Thai naturalization process. They kind of streamlined it and opened the doors to new categories. It can be nerve wracking without the adequate approach / attitude.

Edited September 17, 2021 by heiri007

[onthemoon]

18 minutes ago, david143 said:

( MOI interviews are still stopped)

Interesting. Do you know when was the last batch that got an MOI interview? I mean in terms of 1.) When were the documents handed over to MOI and 2.) When did that interview take place?

Reasons I ask:

a.) I want too see whether 18 months was still a good estimate then.

b.) Of course, when they re-start the interviews, they have have a backlog so it will take longer. The longer it has been since the last interview, the bigger the backlog.

TIA