Thai teacher's SHOCK in Oz! Explains his experiences down under are not a bit like Thai schools!

[CharlieH]

3 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I have no idea how widespread it is but some of the teachers here do, maybe?

With envelopes being handed over to even get the child into the school to start with, how likely is that child going to fail having paid ? Be realistic, it aint gonna happen.

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

I didn't know all these. I applied for an English teacher post before in Thailand but they didn't hire me because I didn't have any teaching experience.

 

So no students are allowed to fail in Thai schools?

 

No doubt some pupils fail but as mentioned its a face thing, the education system needs to be seen to be working, the teachers need to evidence that with a pass, so it becomes compulsory almost to ensure your students all make the grade even if not pass with flying colours.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[Chongalulu]

36 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Singapore is a classic example of how education hs gone wrong.....(Japan and Korea too have acknowledged this)

The problem is that hot-housing on perceived useful topics has lead to a population that are social inept and inflexible when it comes to changing jobs or careers. 

You end up with a population that knows lots but understands nothing.

 

In the past they hoed authority to authoritarian governments who consider they know best - and this has led to their current difficulties.

the UK is just STARTING on this road with ever more dictatorial governments

 

 

 I went to Singapore on their 50th independence celebrations to stop my daughter off who was doing a years student exchange at a top university there. I found nothing of what you speak ,just a very knowledgeable,helpful successful people. It was the making of my daughter and helped her get a very good job back in the U.K. Compared to thailand where they can’t do simple sums without a calculator and have very low levels of English,it’s light years ahead.

[EricTh]

5 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

 I went to Singapore on their 50th independence celebrations to stop my daughter off who was doing a years student exchange at a top university there. I found nothing of what you speak ,just a very knowledgeable,helpful successful people. It was the making of my daughter and helped her get a very good job back in the U.K. Compared to thailand where they can’t do simple sums without a calculator and have very low levels of English,it’s light years ahead.

 

You must understand that English is the first language in Singapore where almost all the courses are conducted in English. It's not the second language like in Thailand.

 

Their mother tongue language is learned like a foreign language and is a single subject. I heard Singaporeans suck in their mother tongue.

 

You can't compare apple with orange.

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by EricTh

[BenDeCosta]

In my personal opinion, the state of the education system in Thailand is one of the most upsetting things about the country. People's chances in life are effectively hobbled because they don't get anything even approaching the standard of education in western countries, or even other Asian countries. But because of saving face etc. they won't listen to foreigners and are unwilling to make changes that would improves the lives of the people massively. My wife's son is 18 and has finished his schooling, can't speak a word of English except for "hello", doesn't recognise flags of other countries, doesn't know what the organs in the body do, doesn't know the capital cities of other countries, has never heard of WW2, can't read a map and can't do simple sums in his head. But he's an expert at playing Freefire on his phone, smoking cigarettes and constantly tinkering with his motorbike.

 

I can't help but think that the money allocated to education in Thailand ends up being spent on something else.

[Blumpie]

I'm surprised he made it out there alive.  Bloody spiders killing people, alligators, snakes, dragging you out into the outback not to mention kiler ants, man-eating birds, and centipedes that run into your ear and eat your brains while you lay there screaming.  

No wonder they are so laid back.  Death can and does happen any second.  

In other news, I'm a little drunk.

[Old Croc]

49 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Of course Thailand is middling to worse as an Asian nation in many metrics...but like Australia, it is a minnow on it's "team." and doesn't count for much. The leader and pacesetter for the Asian squad is China. Granted the "free spirit" of the West does birth ground breaking innovation and technology (not much from Oz however) but most of it is commercialized at scale by China and made in China. Keep in mind, also, that the biggest share of most tech company's sales and profits now come from the Chinese market...not Europe or North America.

Before launching into more off-topic China love and denigration of the western world, particularly Australia, read this link and count how many Oz inventions you used today.

20 Australian inventions that changed the world (australiangeographic.com.au)

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, BenDeCosta said:

 

I can't help but think that the money allocated to education in Thailand ends up being spent on something else.

Apparently the budget per head for students education in Thailand is actually very good, so yes one can assume it is not all spent where it should be.

[Chongalulu]

10 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

You must understand that English is the first language in Singapore where almost all the courses are conducted in English. It's not the second language like in Thailand.

 

Their mother tongue language is learned like a foreign language and is a single subject. I heard Singaporeans suck in their mother tongue.

 

You can't compare apple with orange.

 

While that’s a valid point it doesn’t explain their superiority in the other PISA categories,maths and sciences. The post above from Ben da Costa is the truthful tragedy. I took my Thai stepdaughter out of Thailand to U.K. at 9 years old - mercifully- she has a first in business economics now 

[bstafford214]

5 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I was a teacher trainer back in the day and saw many bright young teachers like this; full of wonder and awe.

 

However...

 

This young man will return from Oz full of new ideas and methods, but will then run into the old guard at the school; the ones that have been there forever and that are resistant to change. Further, he will get undermined by those same elderly teachers with the Principal and other Admin people at the school. Finally, he will get shunned a bit because he is trying to introduce 'foreign' ideas.

 

The young teacher will either be told to 'shut up' and do so OR he will embark on a very long journey to amass certificates and seniority in order to implement some of the new things that he learned; that will take a loooooong time. Eventually, that young teacher will have amassed enough clout to finally change things, but by then he will be one of the 'old guard' fearful of the 'new upstarts' and their 'newfangled ideas'.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

Ad nauseam.

 

If you want to see change in the Thai education system, and everyone should, you need drastic, radical action. 

 

Step one: enter the Bangkok Ministry of Education building and fire 80% of the people working there. Literally. They are the ones who created the current monstrosity and they are the ones who will sabotage any chance of reform.

 

Step two: enter the Provincial Ministry of education building(s) and fire 75% of the people working there.

 

Step three; enter every school in the Kingdom and inform the Principal that if 50% of his senior students don't pass the nation-wide tests, he will be fired.

 

Step four: give the Principal some autonomy to hire/fire and/or discipline staff

 

Step Five: if it doesn't work the first year, do it again for a second, third, and fourth year.

 

Drastic? Yup. Revolutionary? Yup. Serious? Yup. Needed? Yup.

 

But, I ain't holding my breath...

 

 

These are great ideas and are drastically needed here. I taught for 3 months in a International School and could not take it. I can't imagine what the regular government schools are like. Change will not happen in my lifetime here, the Thai government does not care about their people. Why aren't they trying to protect them for simple things like wearing helmets, have a license? But make sure the uniform and hair is correct so I can fool you by how it looks, not how it really is.

[BenDeCosta]

My wife has two sons from her previous marriage. And from spending a lot of time with them, I have determined that they weren't being taught maths (math if you're from USA, sorry), history, geography, science or languages. So the obvious question then is, just what are Thai students learning at school, in a rural Isaan school for example? They are all adept at using Line. When there's no food cooked for them, all they can make is mama noodles or kai jiao with rice.

 

By the time I had finished primary school in the UK, I was already decent at maths, knew the capital cities of every country in the world, had learned a few words of French, and was starting to get a basic grasp of science. I also knew how to cook my own bread and could bake cakes. It's mind-boggling and upsetting that Thai children spend just as long at school, not counting all the Buddha days, but come out knowing almost nothing. By the time I was 18 I had a basic grasp of German, French and Latin, was doing advanced calculus and had a very good understanding of physics, chemistry and biology.

[WebGuy]

5 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

However...

 

This young man will return from Oz full of new ideas ...

 

 

... and the rest is written in Plato's Allegory of the cave

[BenDeCosta]

9 minutes ago, WebGuy said:

... and the rest is written in Plato's Allegory of the cave

 

Which describes Thailand in a nutshell. However, in Thailand, the children of the elite usually go to far-superior (and expensive) international schools and then on to foreign universities, keeping them "elite" against the great unwashed (and uneducated). If you haven't got money, and lots of it, you're effectively kept in Plato's cave.

Edited April 21, 2021 by BenDeCosta

[DavisH]

5 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

So made up

I think so. It sounded like truck driver talk to me lol

[aboctok]

5 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

So made up

There's nothing as cringey as contrived over-Aussieness.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Of course Thailand is middling to worse as an Asian nation in many metrics...but like Australia, it is a minnow on it's "team." and doesn't count for much. The leader and pacesetter for the Asian squad is China. Granted the "free spirit" of the West does birth ground breaking innovation and technology (not much from Oz however) but most of it is commercialized at scale by China and made in China. Keep in mind, also, that the biggest share of most tech company's sales and profits now come from the Chinese market...not Europe or North America.

Until COVID put a spanner into the Australian tertiary education system, Chinese and Indian students were some of its most eager customers.

Australia punches well above its weight in the medical and biotechnology field. The qualification Fellow of the Royal Australian College of Surgeons (FRACS) is more prestigious  than the UK FRCS.

I have yet to meet a Thai who has not been outside Thailand that can read a map, or identify more than the nearest countries outside of Thailand.

[DavisH]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

This article shows how lacking the Thai education system is. Thailand boasts free eduction to more students than anywhere else in the region, yet what they get is very, very poor....and is archaic, it is embarrassing.

 

Australia actually doesn't have a star quality education system, yet at least it attempts to use modern educational theory and practices.

 

There is a problem in every country in the world that people too many people seem to think they are "experts" in education just because they went to school.

 

The Thai system is ineffective and rotten from the bottom up to the very top. Unfortunately after 20 years in Thai education you begin to realise that any attempt to change is met with typical Thai hardline resistance baulking and eventually you'll find people are trying to get rid of you. Yet thanks to Thailands endemic corruption, the people in high ranking positions know diddly about education.

Australia has a very strong Teacher's Union. These is no such institution I'm aware of here. Thais teachers re basically told to jump, and they say "how high". Complaining on their part is useless and they will not get promoted through the system for rocking the boat. So they just go with the flow and not worry too much about it. 

[elliss]

4 hours ago, simonr said:

All news is made up....

 

 Tie my Kangaroo down boy .? 

   What a Oz teacher , classic ...

[kimamey]

6 hours ago, Smithson said:

One thing stands out, the Thai teacher talking about safety. It was just a week or two ago that a kid drowned in Kalasin during an excursion. Not the first time, also I remember kids dieing after being forgotten in mini vans and getting stuck in caves after being taken down by teachers. Then there's the unregistered motorbikes ridden to school by kids with neither helmets or licenses, which is fine as long as the hair and uniform are correct.

 

Australia is safety obsessed, the 'she'll be right mate' attitude seems a thing of the past.

 

Rape and sexual assualt of students by teachers here isn't that uncommon here, often almost tolerated. That would have been an interesting discussion with their Aussie counterparts.

 

Then there's freedom of expression...

I thought that as well.

Surely Thai schoolchildren get their dose of danger on the trip to and from school so there's no need to sacrifice any of the school day

[bangon04]

"At 8 am there was no need to line up at the flagpole."

 

Obviously, because everyone knows that Thai flagpoles are taller, stronger and have more endurance than the rest of the world. Thai flagpoles need to be revered. It is a matter of national pride. COTKU

[DavisH]

39 minutes ago, BenDeCosta said:

My wife has two sons from her previous marriage. And from spending a lot of time with them, I have determined that they weren't being taught maths (math if you're from USA, sorry), history, geography, science or languages. So the obvious question then is, just what are Thai students learning at school, in a rural Isaan school for example? They are all adept at using Line. When there's no food cooked for them, all they can make is mama noodles or kai jiao with rice.

 

By the time I had finished primary school in the UK, I was already decent at maths, knew the capital cities of every country in the world, had learned a few words of French, and was starting to get a basic grasp of science. I also knew how to cook my own bread and could bake cakes. It's mind-boggling and upsetting that Thai children spend just as long at school, not counting all the Buddha days, but come out knowing almost nothing. By the time I was 18 I had a basic grasp of German, French and Latin, was doing advanced calculus and had a very good understanding of physics, chemistry and biology.

One reason is that they are learning to pass a test (and eventually get passed if they fail). Most of them don't study to gain knowledge, but to get a piece of paper. I say most, as many of my students are very driven and keen to learn (not a rural school, btw). 

[DavisH]

1 minute ago, bangon04 said:

"At 8 am there was no need to line up at the flagpole."

 

Obviously, because everyone knows that Thai flagpoles are taller, stronger and have more endurance than the rest of the world. Thai flagpoles need to be revered. It is a matter of national pride. COTKU

We lined up at the flgpole and 'sang' the national anthem, but that was 35 years ago. We only did that on Mondays. Not sure they even do it now. 

[bangon04]

2 minutes ago, DavisH said:

We lined up at the flgpole and 'sang' the national anthem, but that was 35 years ago. We only did that on Mondays. Not sure they even do it now. 

we used to cram into a hall and sing a hymn to an imaginary deity......apparently some schools still do that...

[BenDeCosta]

If the Thai government really wanted to improve education in the country, they could send teams of people to schools in Singapore, Japan, Taiwan, Australia and the UK, and see why these places are doing so well and then suggest some changes to the Thai educational system. In the grand scheme of things, such a project wouldn't cost much at all, but because so many here simply refuse to accept that they are ever wrong, and refuse to accept advice on how to do things better, I don't think that it will ever happen.

 

If they got rid of the complicated visa and work permit paperwork, and would pay a living wage of say 45k a month, which is still very modest, to native English-speaking English teachers, many teachers would come and that's one area of education that could be improved very quickly. This has been going on for decades now. Education apparently is not a priority in Thailand.

 

I have met the local English teacher in my village, and I can't understand what she is trying to say at all, so the children are being taught a load of rubbish. I suspect that it's the same across the country. If she's the teacher and I can't even understand her greeting, I dread to think what the kids are learning.

Edited April 21, 2021 by BenDeCosta

[jak2002003]

3 hours ago, CM Dad said:

Yes, you are correct about the UK system.  However, you failed to mention that many of the issues regarding Thai schools have been directly copied from the British system.  If you are a product of that archaic system then perhaps that explains your poorly written comment.

UK education is very good, far superior to most American schools, and without the mass shootings,  teen suicides, mental health problems and massive bullying problems, and religious Christian brainwashing.

 

Sorry my 'poorly written comment' was not to your liking, but I was typing it on a mobile phone while I was in the back of a cramped and moving songtaew bus. I am also registered blind and can't re read and correct / spot typos so easily. Perhaps you were one of the school bullies back in your day?  

 

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

The past three governments have seen Thailand throwing money into the education system, regularly spending 20 per cent of its annual budget in the area. However, despite years of massive investment, Thailand still ranks far behind its competitors when it comes to test scores and rankings.

 

Thailand has a lot of catching up to do.
Critics have argued that Thailand’s education system, with its emphasis on rote-learning and highly hierarchical structure, allows little room for students to question, inquire and develop critical thinking skills.

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/noname/30348167

[BenDeCosta]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The past three governments have seen Thailand throwing money into the education system, regularly spending 20 per cent of its annual budget in the area. However, despite years of massive investment, Thailand still ranks far behind its competitors when it comes to test scores and rankings.

 

Yes, and knowing what I know about Thailand, I would postulate that maybe 10% of that money ended up being spent on the students, with the rest going to Rolex watches, Lamborghinis and mia nois.

Edited April 21, 2021 by BenDeCosta

[WebGuy]

2 hours ago, BenDeCosta said:

If you haven't got money, and lots of it, you're effectively kept in Plato's cave.

More or less a global disease

[SomchaiCNX]

1 hour ago, BenDeCosta said:

If the Thai government really wanted to improve education in the country, they could send teams of people to schools in Singapore, Japan, Taiwan, Australia and the UK, and see why these places are doing so well and then suggest some changes to the Thai educational system. In the grand scheme of things, such a project wouldn't cost much at all, but because so many here simply refuse to accept that they are ever wrong, and refuse to accept advice on how to do things better, I don't think that it will ever happen.

 

If they got rid of the complicated visa and work permit paperwork, and would pay a living wage of say 45k a month, which is still very modest, to native English-speaking English teachers, many teachers would come and that's one area of education that could be improved very quickly. This has been going on for decades now. Education apparently is not a priority in Thailand.

 

I have met the local English teacher in my village, and I can't understand what she is trying to say at all, so the children are being taught a load of rubbish. I suspect that it's the same across the country. If she's the teacher and I can't even understand her greeting, I dread to think what the kids are learning.

I had a similar problem with my neighbour who is a native English speaker from Glasgow ???? A lot of Native English speakers even don't understand other native English speakers. ????

 

[KhaoYai]

3 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Be realistic, it aint gonna happen.

I'm not arguing with you, I know it goes on - I just don't know to what extent.

Edited April 21, 2021 by KhaoYai