Important Information re COVID coverage for Expats Already in Thailand

[Sheryl]

This post concerns insurance coverage for COVID expats already in Thailand and not the mandatory COVID insurance for people newly entering the country.

 

As most people are aware, in Thailand there is mandatory "hospitlaization" for anyone who tests COVID positive even if totally asymptomatic and for foreigners it is not free.

 

Originally this was in hospitals but now due to overcrowding it is in "field hospitals" or "hospitels" if the symptoms are mild or there are no symptoms.

 

Most general insurance policies cover COVID, there would have to be an explicit exclusion not to. However there has been a lot of concern and discussion around whether or not foreign insurers would pay for COVID hospitalization in people who were asymptomatic given their "medically necessary" criteria. I have not specifically heard of a case where one refused, though. In the case of my own insurance (April International issued out of France) I confirmed that they have paid for hospitalization (in a hospital) of asymptomatic people  in Thailand, though not clear they necessarily know the patients were asymptomatic. Typically the forms submitted by hospitals lists just diagnosis and treatment plan (and then itemized bill) and given the Thai medical tendencies, even in an asymptomatic case there were likely medications listed.

 

However I received today definitive information, from the insurance company via the broker, that April will not pay for admission to a Field Hospital or "hospitel". I suspect same will be true of any international insurer.

 

There are several COVID specific policies currently available to expats living in Thailand, from Thai companies, as follows in alphabetical order

 

Dhipaya insurance available through several brokers including AAinsure as well as direct from the company  http://www.tiptakaful.com/en/insurance/detail/12/dhipaya-covid-19-insurance.  Premium for 100k baht medical cover = 850 baht a year.  I am in process of trying to confirm this will cover admission to a Field hospital or "hospitel".

 

Krungthai Panich Insurance  - available through broker Roojai and possibly other brokers (not sure on that point)   https://www.roojai.com/en/covid/  Premium for 100k baht medical cover = 420 baht ; for 150k cover = 590 baht and for 200k cover = 850 baht per year. In this thread, broker Roojai confirms these policies will cover admission to a Field Hospital or hospitel:   https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1159632-did-anyone-get-the-roojai-covid-insurance/

 

KWG insurance "COVID Secure" - this is new policy and not yet showing in KWG website, I received info from AA brokers.   It includes not only COVID medical costs but also a flat daily payment for being an inpatient. Also covers any side effects from vaccination plus added on small benefit for death. Premium for 100k baht medical cover plus 300baht a day  compensation while hospitalized = 299 baht, for 100k medical cover and 500 baht/day compenstion = 499 baht a year. I am in process of trying to confirm whether Field Hospitals and "hospitels" are included. The daily compensation benefit is up to 30 days, medical cover is actual costs up to the maximum stated. For info contact www.aainsure.net

 

All of these policies are up to age 99, no physical exam required.  Wait period is 14 days  and of course already having COVID is excluded.

 

There may be other policies of which I am not aware, these are the ones I found.

 

Until recently there were several banks offering policies that paid flat amount upon testing positive for COVID, as far as I know these are no longer being issued but existing policies will be honored.

 

 

 

 

[Tropicalevo]

Thank you. I am also with April, good to know.

However, I also have the Dhipaya insurance and I have paid into Social Security for the last 20 years. I should be covered somewhere.

[Sheryl]

Just now, Tropicalevo said:

Thank you. I am also with April, good to know.

However, I also have the Dhipaya insurance and I have paid into Social Security for the last 20 years. I should be covered somewhere.

 

If you mean the Dhipaya COVID policy then for sure covered in hospital m(for that matter SS would cover in hospital) but you should try to confirm with them whether they will also cover Field Hospital and "hospitel". And if you find out let me know, I have been trying to find out from Dhipaya so far with no luck.

[bobbin]

I obtained the Dhipaya COVID policy last year in March. 860 Baht/yr..

 

I let it lapse this year because it was so quiet..  Then April rolled around and I got nervous. Called my broker.. Can I buy again? No problem. Can just renew.. Great.. and premium dropped to 680 Baht/yr..

[tomazbodner]

19 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

If you mean the Dhipaya COVID policy then for sure covered in hospital m(for that matter SS would cover in hospital) but you should try to confirm with them whether they will also cover Field Hospital and "hospitel". And if you find out let me know, I have been trying to find out from Dhipaya so far with no luck.

I have asked this same question to Dhipaya (got it over Roojai a year back and just extended when they offered 680 bht extension for another year)  - got no answer except promise to call back, which didn't happen for over 2 weeks now.

[Tagged]

Hi @Sheryl do you know how much we have to pay for a asymptomatic hospitilation post a day? 

 

 

[bobbin]

I read last year that Dhipaya offered that Covid insurance as a long shot.. Apparently they sold a LOT of policies.. with few payouts.

 

However Thai Government recently announced that all Thai people are entitled to free treatment, whether they have Social Insurance or not...

 

So Dhipaya may end up with a bunch of older expats as the base, and that might not work out so well for them..

 

Get 'em while they're hot..

[pontious]

54 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

that April will not pay for admission to a Field Hospital or "hospitel".

Do you know what costs are for the above two. They just seem  to give you a bed.  I see no medical equipment in them.

Edited April 27, 2021 by pontious

[bobbin]

25 minutes ago, pontious said:

Do you know what costs are for the above two. They just seem  to give you a bed.  I see no medical equipment in them.

I don't know about the cost, but I'm sure there are nurses in attendance, checking temperatures etc..

 

Got to qualify as medical attention..

[Tagged]

4 minutes ago, bobbin said:

I don't know about the cost, but I'm sure there are nurses in attendance, checking temperatures etc..

 

Got to qualify as medical attention..

And every covid test have to be paid for as well

[Jingthing]

Sheryl,  thanks for all that.

I have an important question.

There is a member here who has posted numerous times adamantly that if expats are sent to field hospitals it will be free to them the same as Thais because field hospitals don't have a billing function set up.

I find that very hard to believe!

So my question to you is whether expats sent to field hospitals will be charged or not?

I assume they will be. Perhaps you don’t know but if you do know please answer so we can settle this area of controversy. 

[bobbin]

8 minutes ago, Tagged said:

And every covid test have to be paid for as well

Not a problem if you have coverage..

 

That was the point of the last sentence.. You are not just lying around on an enforced "vacation"..

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, bobbin said:

I obtained the Dhipaya COVID policy last year in March. 860 Baht/yr..

 

I let it lapse this year because it was so quiet..  Then April rolled around and I got nervous. Called my broker.. Can I buy again? No problem. Can just renew.. Great.. and premium dropped to 680 Baht/yr..

 

As always thanks to Dr. Sheryl for taking the time to seek/get some specific answers on the important 'scenarios she identified.

 

I took the same policy some 6 months ago, so far not needed to make any claim.

 

Before I paid the premium I asked many questions. I got a quick and specific 'YES' answer to every question, all followed by a couple of added lines to be specific. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by scorecard

[bobbin]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Sheryl,  thanks for all that.

I have an important question.

There is a member here who has posted numerous times adamantly that if expats are sent to field hospitals it will be free to them the same as Thais because field hospitals don't have a billing function set up.

I find that very hard to believe!

So my question to you is whether expats sent to field hospitals will be charged or not?

I assume they will be. Perhaps you don’t know but if you do know please answer so we can settle this area of controversy. 

Jingthing, just buy the coverage..

 

Excellent risk/reward.

[kynikoi]

I'd just spoke to a rep this morning regarding a well regarded insurance company via work. The name begins and ends with the letter A.

 

Regarding field hospitals he said that if admitted I would need to pay and then submit bills. I'm not all that concerned because I doubt they'd ever let a farang go to the cheap field hospital when so much money to be made keeping them in regular hospital. I'm not at all certain that farang even allowed into field hospitals. Finally, for those in BKK doubt these even exist.

 

I have workplace insurance. SSO government insurance and Diphaya b850.

 

Thanks for that excellent info Sheryl.

Edited April 27, 2021 by kynikoi

[Excel]

Just now, kynikoi said:

I'd just spoke to a rep this morning regarding a well regarded insurance company via work. The name begins and ends with the letter A.

 

Regarding field hospitals he said that if admitted I would need to pay and then submit bills. I'm not all that concerned because I doubt they'd ever let a farang go to the cheap field hospital when so much money to be made keeping them in regular hospital. I'm not at all certain that farang even allowed into field hospitals. Finally, for those in BKK doubt these even exist.

 

Thanks for that excellent info Sheryl.

AmandA is a strange name for a guy ????

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Tagged said:

Hi @Sheryl do you know how much we have to pay for a asymptomatic hospitilation post a day? 

 

 

 

in a private hospital total costs I have heard (for usually a 2 weel stay were 200k-300k+. This is with no complications.

 

Special room with controlled air flow etc required.

 

I do not know what Field Hospitals charge foreigners. Should cerainly be less than a full fledged hospital.

 

I don't know rate for "hospitels" either but certainly won't be less than ASQ, could be more . ASQ for 14 days  ranges anywhere from 30k to >100k.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, kynikoi said:

I'd just spoke to a rep this morning regarding a well regarded insurance company via work. The name begins and ends with the letter A.

 

Regarding field hospitals he said that if admitted I would need to pay and then submit bills. I'm not all that concerned because I doubt they'd ever let a farang go to the cheap field hospital when so much money to be made keeping them in regular hospital. I'm not at all certain that farang even allowed into field hospitals. Finally, for those in BKK doubt these even exist.

 

I have workplace insurance. SSO government insurance and Diphaya b850.

 

Thanks for that excellent info Sheryl.

I recall a recent credible report of Americans sent to a field hospital as a transfer because they were asymptomatic and they ran out of space where they were originally sent.

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, kynikoi said:

I'd just spoke to a rep this morning regarding a well regarded insurance company via work. The name begins and ends with the letter A.

 

Regarding field hospitals he said that if admitted I would need to pay and then submit bills. I'm not all that concerned because I doubt they'd ever let a farang go to the cheap field hospital when so much money to be made keeping them in regular hospital. I'm not at all certain that farang even allowed into field hospitals. Finally, for those in BKK doubt these even exist.

 

I have workplace insurance. SSO government insurance and Diphaya b850.

 

Thanks for that excellent info Sheryl.

That indicates that field hospitals are not free to expats. Only that one member that I alluded to seems to think otherwise. 

[Sheryl]

3 minutes ago, kynikoi said:

I'd just spoke to a rep this morning regarding a well regarded insurance company via work. The name begins and ends with the letter A.

 

Regarding field hospitals he said that if admitted I would need to pay and then submit bills. I'm not all that concerned because I doubt they'd ever let a farang go to the cheap field hospital when so much money to be made keeping them in regular hospital. I'm not at all certain that farang even allowed into field hospitals. Finally, for those in BKK doubt these even exist.

 

Thanks for that excellent info Sheryl.

 

For sure field hospitals, not being regular hospitals, will not have direct pay arrangements with insurers. Neither will "hospitels". No way they could have the trained billing staff with experience in third party payment that this requires.

 

Are you saying the rep says their policy will reimburse Field Hospital and hospitel? If so please list the name of the policy, sounds like AXA? And was this person an AXA rep?

 

In  many parts  of the country there are no hospital beds available, even in private hospitals. Long wait lists, especially in Bangkok.remember that ordinary beds cannot be used, requires special rooms that are limited in number.  There have been deaths in seriously ill people awaiting a hospital bed. This is why the government has taken the decision to send all mild/asymptomatic cases to alternative facilities. If you test positive you are not going to have much say in where you are sent.

 

 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, pontious said:

Do you know what costs are for the above two. They just seem  to give you a bed.  I see no medical equipment in them.

 

There are medical staff (nurses and doctors) and they almost certainly have some equipment on standby at least.  Special ventilation requirements too. Medications are given (Thailand gives antivirals to all COVIC positive cases though efficacy is open to debate). Individual thermometers for each patient etc.

 

Likely costs more than you might expect but I don't know how much.

[kynikoi]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Are you saying the rep says their policy will reimburse Field Hospital and hospitel?

 

It wasn't AXA.

 

What they rep said in English and the actual policy might be open to debate.

 

It may be related to my policy and not blanket for all insureds.

 

I cannot say with any certainty that the company would pay for any charges. He said I could submit them (of course the inference being at least something should be paid).

[Tagged]

22 minutes ago, bobbin said:

Not a problem if you have coverage..

 

That was the point of the last sentence.. You are not just lying around on an enforced "vacation"..

I do not have covid covered in my insurerance, but called https://www.dhipaya.co.th now, and they will call me back now. I have a social security that cover a surten amount pr day from my home country, but not sure this will be covered at all if no symptoms. 

 

Dhipaya said they normaly only give to those with workpermit, but have to wait and see. They asked my visa status, if married, and as said we have to wait and see. 

[blackcab]

I wonder what is going to happen when an asymptomatic non-Thai citizen cannot afford to pay the bill when they are charged for a field hospital/hospitel stay.

 

They might have travel or health insurance, but many won't pay.

They might have purchased covid insurance while in Thailand, but some of those won't pay either.

 

How on earth are tourists expected to travel to Thailand in these circumstances?

[4MyEgo]

11 minutes ago, kynikoi said:

What they rep said in English and the actual policy might be open to debate.

 

I have found an insurance rep lie to me once and when I looked at the policy and saw that what he said wasn't in the policy, I cancelled it and received a full refund.

 

If it's not in writing in the policy then I will not purchase it, that said, if I need more, I will email the broker or insurer direct to see the wording an then file it. In this instance what Sheryl has pointed out could be costly as I am sure insurers wordings are "hospital", so if any doubts about "field hospitals" or "hospitels" if the symptoms are mild or there are no symptoms, it would be advisable to email your insurer to get a written reply, at least that way you know, otherwise check out the other insurers Sheryl has suggested and once confirmed that they will cover the "field hospitals" or "hospitels" if the symptoms are mild or there are no symptoms, would be money well spent IMO.

[kynikoi]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

I have found an insurance rep lie to me once and when I looked at the policy and saw that what he said wasn't in the policy, I cancelled it and received a full refund.

 

If it's not in writing in the policy then I will not purchase it, that said, if I need more, I will email the broker or insurer direct to see the wording an then file it. In this instance what Sheryl has pointed out could be costly as I am sure insurers wordings are "hospital", so if any doubts about "field hospitals" or "hospitels" if the symptoms are mild or there are no symptoms, it would be advisable to email your insurer to get a written reply, at least that way you know, otherwise check out the other insurers Sheryl has suggested and once confirmed that they will cover the "field hospitals" or "hospitels" if the symptoms are mild or there are no symptoms, would be money well spent IMO.

 

I'm not saying your wrong but why? I have three insurance. Whatever they pay I won't have to. I have no legal recourse. If the policy stated and they didn't pay I'd have little recourse.

 

Between the reps English and vague assurances it is what it is.

 

First, need to catch covid. Second need to get sent to field hospital. Like I said, farang are not going to field hospitals. Could be totally asymptomatic no matter they will lock you down in a proper hospital and bleed your funds out of you. By Sheryl's account 100k a week. Total mafia.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Tagged said:

I do not have covid covered in my insurerance, but called https://www.dhipaya.co.th now, and they will call me back now. I have a social security that cover a surten amount pr day from my home country, but not sure this will be covered at all if no symptoms. 

 

Dhipaya said they normaly only give to those with workpermit, but have to wait and see. They asked my visa status, if married, and as said we have to wait and see. 

Please post here what you find out. Thanks!

 

Dhipaya COVID policy has been bought by many foreigners without work permit,. I wonder if they thought you meant something else? Or else person on the phone did not know what they were talking about.

[Sheryl]

27 minutes ago, kynikoi said:

 

I'm not saying your wrong but why? I have three insurance. Whatever they pay I won't have to. I have no legal recourse. If the policy stated and they didn't pay I'd have little recourse.

 

Between the reps English and vague assurances it is what it is.

 

First, need to catch covid. Second need to get sent to field hospital. Like I said, farang are not going to field hospitals. Could be totally asymptomatic no matter they will lock you down in a proper hospital and bleed your funds out of you. By Sheryl's account 100k a week. Total mafia.

 

They will not let you go to  a hospital if you are aymptomatic.  Across the board high level decision aimed at making best use of an insufficient number of hospital beds.

 

Serious legal consequences if you refuse to go to  a Field Hospital.

 

You might be directed to a "hospitel" instead (or be able to negotiate for that) but only if available.

 

 

[BananaBandit]

Is forcing asymptomatic foreigners into expensive hotels the typical policy in other countries right now?

[4MyEgo]

37 minutes ago, kynikoi said:

 

I'm not saying your wrong but why? I have three insurance. Whatever they pay I won't have to. I have no legal recourse. If the policy stated and they didn't pay I'd have little recourse.

 

Between the reps English and vague assurances it is what it is.

 

First, need to catch covid. Second need to get sent to field hospital. Like I said, farang are not going to field hospitals. Could be totally asymptomatic no matter they will lock you down in a proper hospital and bleed your funds out of you. By Sheryl's account 100k a week. Total mafia.

 

I am not saying I am right. All I am saying is that when it is in writing, it is pretty hard for an insurer to get out of it, e.g. last year well before vaccines had reached most countries I emailed my insurer in preparation asking them that if the country I was residing in didn't pay for Xpats to be vaccinated would they cover it, and this is the reply they gave me: 

 

We are happy to inform you that if the full expenses of vaccinations are not covered by your country of residence, we at XYZ Insurance will bare the costs. Coverage is subject to the terms and conditions of your policy and the customary rates in your country of residence.

 

I replaced the insurers name in the above. At least I have that in writing, however since the email it is my understanding that Thailand will pay for the Covid 19 vaccination, that said, if I don't want one of the vaccinations on offer and the private hospital has the one I want or I can get one quicker than waiting for the Thai government to give it to me because I have pre-existing conditions which put me in in the high risk, then I will pay for it myself. 

 

Having things in writing is always harder to get out of.

 

I don't think that they would put you in a private hospital to extract $'s from the insurer, however if they did, then it pays to have private cover then doesn't it. Not sure most would like it if you or I got VIP treatment because they don't have private cover, i.e. those who are not insured, however discrimination is ripe in Thailand I see.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by 4MyEgo