Study Shows Both Sinovac and AstraZeneca COVID-19 Vaccines Are Effective

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9 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Which in and of itself, doesn't mean much.  Especially since San Marino is just a speck inside Italy, with NO borders.  Means nothing.

Not really. That's a pretty substantial population for research purposes. And, if, in fact, severe illness and death rates decline, I would say that it is very significant. Especially given the large number of unvaccinated tourists who regularly visit the place. 

 

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/san-marino

Edited May 12, 2021 by placeholder

[Andrew Dwyer]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Which in and of itself, doesn't mean much.  Especially since San Marino is just a speck inside Italy, with NO borders.  Means nothing.

Went there in ‘82 , cheap duty free !!

[xtrnuno41]

On 5/11/2021 at 11:43 AM, placeholder said:

I guess the fact of a lot less deaths is unimportant.

You are not going to like what i will say.

But still i believe this virus was organized. It is meant to be to happen like this.

You remember SARS, MERS, H1N1, all pre viruses which didnt work so good as this one.

It is a provider (dr NO?) of the virus against the rest of the world to bring down world population?!

And yes there are too many people on this ball. Almost tripled since i was young.

And then we already had WW2, which costed 100-dreds of million people their lives.

In the past we had wars with stupid leaders (they are still around) to engage, but brought many material costs. The virus not.

The whole thing is a show, governments act like they care, but just dont. You think they really care for people dying? 

And what about food, many people are dying centuries, as they dont have food or even drinking water. Now you are concerned about covid and saving people? Bit odd.

 

 

[Thomas J]

I am no conspiracy theorist but does anyone really think Thailand would 

tell its citizens that the vaccines that it has available are not effective.  Additionally, what do you think the likelihood is that Thailand would ever come out with a report that a product made in China was ineffective or inferior.  I would trust gas station purchased Sushi more than the latter likelihood of that ever occurring. 

[Gulfsailor]

16 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

I am no conspiracy theorist but does anyone really think Thailand would 

tell its citizens that the vaccines that it has available are not effective.  Additionally, what do you think the likelihood is that Thailand would ever come out with a report that a product made in China was ineffective or inferior.  I would trust gas station purchased Sushi more than the latter likelihood of that ever occurring. 

Here is a recent list of hundreds of products (mostly Chinese) which were found faulty or dangerous by a Thai government department. 
https://thaicas.ocpb.go.th/Home/Index/EN?page=1

[placeholder]

21 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

I am no conspiracy theorist but does anyone really think Thailand would 

tell its citizens that the vaccines that it has available are not effective.  Additionally, what do you think the likelihood is that Thailand would ever come out with a report that a product made in China was ineffective or inferior.  I would trust gas station purchased Sushi more than the latter likelihood of that ever occurring. 

Given that the Sinovac vaccinie has been the subject of numerous stuidies in countries outside of China and given a clean bill of health, I'd say the odds are pretty good that you are a conspiracy theorist.

Edited May 12, 2021 by placeholder

[Thomas J]

20 minutes ago, Gulfsailor said:

Here is a recent list of hundreds of products (mostly Chinese) which were found faulty or dangerous by a Thai government department

Two things.  I went to that website and clicked on about 20 items.  I found one that identified it as Japanese - Kawsaki and another for some saw blade that said it was Denmark.  I saw lots that just said foreign country.  Maybe those are Chinese but they certainly didn't identify itself as such. 

There is also a huge difference between the government of Thailand making a public announcement that is critical of a vaccine made in China versus putting Fireworks, or a child's toy  on some website that few are even aware of and as mentioned, I saw nothing with the items I clicked that said China.  If they were identifying Chinese products "as foreign" even the must hidden website is not making any derogatory statement against Chinese products. 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Thomas J

[Kiujunn]

9 hours ago, placeholder said:

Given that the Sinovac vaccinie has been the subject of numerous stuidies in countries outside of China and given a clean bill of health, I'd say the odds are pretty good that you are a conspiracy theorist.

Sinovac vaccine has not been given a clean bill of health:

 

Indonesia yesterday published very good numbers of efficiency, over 90%, much better than the oft-quoted Brazilian 50%. Numbers are from real life, vaccinations of medical workers. 

 

Nevertheless,  WHO (don't forget,  ruled by China's man) refused emergency approval of Sinovac a couple of days ago.

The reason: the Chinese couldn't convince the WHO expert panel that the number of serious side effects is low (not only with the elderly).

 

So, Sinovac seems to be effective, which is good. But the fears of the Thais,  many of them are scared of Sinovac, are not without reason. 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Kiujunn

[Jeffr2]

10 hours ago, Thomas J said:

I am no conspiracy theorist but does anyone really think Thailand would 

tell its citizens that the vaccines that it has available are not effective.  Additionally, what do you think the likelihood is that Thailand would ever come out with a report that a product made in China was ineffective or inferior.  I would trust gas station purchased Sushi more than the latter likelihood of that ever occurring. 

You are a covid denier.  So I guess that makes you a conspiracy theorist.

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, Kiujunn said:

Sinovac vaccine has not been given a clean bill of health:

 

Indonesia yesterday published very good numbers of efficiency, over 90%, much better than the oft-quoted Brazilian 50%. Numbers are from real life, vaccinations of medical workers. 

 

Nevertheless,  WHO (don't forget,  ruled by China's man) refused emergency approval of Sinovac a couple of days ago.

The reason: the Chinese couldn't convince the WHO expert panel that the number of serious side effects is low (not only with the elderly).

 

In the end, these jabs will keep you out of the hospital.  That's what's important.  Like the seasonal flu, doubt they'll ever be able to create a vaccine that prevents this virus.  It will be with us for years and we'll be getting booster shots.  Even now, they're formulating the annual flu jab to have a covid part also.

 

[Jeffr2]

14 hours ago, placeholder said:

 

Not really. That's a pretty substantial population for research purposes. And, if, in fact, severe illness and death rates decline, I would say that it is very significant. Especially given the large number of unvaccinated tourists who regularly visit the place. 

 

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/san-marino

One reason I don't think this is that important is San Marino is more like a small city inside Italy.  People cross back and forth all the time.  If it was an isolated island, like Syechelles, then it'd make more sense.  But basically this data is for a city inside Italy.  IMHO!! ????

 

But as has been proven, the vaccines work.  The more get jabbed, the fewer end up in the hospital.  I've got my sleeve rolled up!

[gearbox]

Great result for Sinovac from Indonesia, but a single shot doesn't do much good:

 

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/COVID-vaccines/Indonesia-study-shows-China-s-Sinovac-vaccine-highly-effective

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-12/chinese-shot-takes-controversial-path-to-vaccinating-the-world

 

[gearbox]

3 hours ago, Kiujunn said:

Sinovac vaccine has not been given a clean bill of health:

 

Indonesia yesterday published very good numbers of efficiency, over 90%, much better than the oft-quoted Brazilian 50%. Numbers are from real life, vaccinations of medical workers. 

 

Nevertheless,  WHO (don't forget,  ruled by China's man) refused emergency approval of Sinovac a couple of days ago.

The reason: the Chinese couldn't convince the WHO expert panel that the number of serious side effects is low (not only with the elderly).

 

So, Sinovac seems to be effective, which is good. But the fears of the Thais,  many of them are scared of Sinovac, are not without reason. 

 

 

 

Sinovac has not been rejected by WHO, it is still under review. And WHO is not one man show and doesn't rule by executive orders. There are tons of westerners working there.

[friendofthai]

4 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

One reason I don't think this is that important is San Marino is more like a small city inside Italy.  People cross back and forth all the time

So despite the fact that people from infected areas cross back and forth all the time, we don't see disease growth. This is important because in case of isolated Island it could be simply a result of strict quarantine/lock_down measures, not a result of using vaccine.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

all data from unfree countries can be disregarded

[Thomas J]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Perhaps you should stick with quality sites to determine how good these jabs are.  Agreed, I wouldn't trust Thailand's statements, but for sure would trust the CDC, Lancet, etc, etc, etc.  All of which say the jab is fair, but OK.  And will keep you out of the hospital and in the ICU. 

Funny,

You chide me for saying that I did not have a great deal of confidence that the statement by the Thailand Virology that the Sinovac Vaccine was effective but then you post this in response to another post that validates my statement that other studies showed that Sinovac was far less effective saying "this study is good enough for me" 

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Thomas J

[Brunolem]

*Deleted post edited out*

 

"Governments don't always tell the truth"...talk about an understatement.

 

I don't think you are a "Covid denier", a meaningless term repeated ad nauseam by those who absorb the official narrative like brainless sponges, only to regurgitate it over and over again.

 

Yet, you are probably not looking in the right direction when it comes to the Sinovac vaccine.

 

There are not only Chinese interests behind this vaccine, and this company...

 

Anyway, this vaccine has shown to be quite effective, and especially safe, until now, so there is no reason to bash it, never mind where it comes from.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Scott

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, Thomas J said:

No I am not a Covid denier.  it is here, it is significant and should be taken seriously.  My point and I stick by it is that statements by governments are not always truthful.  Take my own country we have concrete evidence Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction.  You have the NBA when one coach made a comment the Chinese found offensive regarding Hong Kong.  It immediately punished the NBA for the comment. 

There is NO WAY Thailand would ever say anything deemed to be derogatory about Sinovac.   Maybe it is just as effective, but I prefer to wait until those findings are either confirmed or denied by other sources with less of a vested interest in keeping on the good side of China. 

There are plenty of independent studies at this point that refute what you based-on-no-evidence assertions contend.

[North]

On 5/10/2021 at 9:13 AM, DLock said:

Fake News.

 

This "report" cites no clinical methodology or clinical data to support. Complete bunk.

 

There are dozens of reports out there to support the business...here is just one.

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00785-7

 

 

I wonder if this "study" is where the numbers come from ?

 

"A study of 61 patients"

 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/single-dose-of-astrazeneca-vaccine-could-result-in-96-7-immunity-in-4-weeks/

[Thomas J]

2 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Yet, you are probably not looking in the right direction when it comes to the Sinovac vaccine.

 

Here again I am not saying it is not effective.  What I am saying is I would not trust the Thai medical authorities touting it as being "as effective" as other alternatives. 

At present the supply of vaccine is limited and what there is I understand is predominately Sinovac.  Do you really think the Thai Medical Authorities would come out and announce, Oh by the way, the vaccine that we procured for you is the least effective on the market, or that it has the most side effects. 

Perhaps Sinovac is just as good and has the same few side effects.  As I said in my original post, I would prefer to validate those findings with a truly unbiased third parties.  Those who have other options beyond Sinovac and those not so heavily dependent on China.  Thailand is hardly impartial in its relationship with China.  It is a major trading partner and major source of tourists.  They have to be cognizant never to do anything that the Chinese find displeasure with.  

Now if I see other countries embracing Sinovac great, that provides some reassurance.  However to date, those with choices appear to be selecting Pfizer, Moderna and Astra Zeneca. 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Thomas J

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been reported and removed.  

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 hours ago, Thomas J said:

There is NO WAY Thailand would ever say anything deemed to be derogatory about Sinovac.   Maybe it is just as effective, but I prefer to wait until those findings are either confirmed or denied by other sources with less of a vested interest in keeping on the good side of China. 

 

In general, I believe in the vaccines and believe that they're ultimately what's going to be required to protect the world and its people from the CV pandemic.

 

That said, it's concerning that Thailand thus far has mainly been relying on a Sinovac vaccine from China that has not yet been approved by the WHO and not yet approved  by the U.S., among other places, nor has it had its trial results published in any credible peer reviewed medical journal.

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Unlike the Moderna vaccine, among others:

 

"FDA Covid vaccine approved #ModernA in Thailand

Moderna's mRNA-1273 vaccine, imported by Silic Farma Co Ltd. certification, quality, effectiveness and approved to be used in Thailand, dated 13 May 2564.

 

https://www.facebook.com/FDAThai/posts/4160909803976150

 

 

Thai FDA's list of four now approved vaccines for Thailand, along with two more still under review.

 

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[cdnvic]

If you are going to make claims, you must provide a source. This is not a subforum for people to debate their individual hypothesis. Speculation and hearsay is subject to removal.

[nausea]

Yeah, they're effective, means nothing; how effective?

Edited May 14, 2021 by nausea
Punctuation.

[Jeffr2]

52 minutes ago, nausea said:

Yeah, they're effective, means nothing; how effective?

 

[Redline]

On 5/10/2021 at 6:02 PM, thaichina said:

Your article is old, here s a recent one  

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-13/are-china-s-covid-shots-less-effective-experts-size-up-sinovac

 

From the article:  The efficacy data of about 50% is for very mild disease, requiring no treatment. For infections requiring some medical intervention, it’s about 84% and for moderate-to-severe Covid cases, it’s 100%.

That doesn't change much~it will stop you from dying, but I would rather stay out of the hospital, and avoid immediate and severe reactions, as is illustrated by Thai nurses.

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Redline said:

That doesn't change much~it will stop you from dying, but I would rather stay out of the hospital, and avoid immediate and severe reactions, as is illustrated by Thai nurses.

Doesn't change much: According to this study it reduces the chances by 84%. in other words, for every 100 unvaccinated people who come down with symptoms severe enough to require hospitalization, only 16 vaccinated people will come down with symptoms severe enough to require hospitalization.

[connda]

On 5/10/2021 at 1:32 PM, webfact said:

Prof Dr Yong said the center is currently studying people’s immunity against COVID-19 in the long term. As COVID-19 has a short incubation period, it may be necessary to administer more doses to ensure people’s immunity is at the highest level.

Yong sounds like a salesman for the pharmaceutical companies.