Buriram becomes first Thai province to penalize refusal for COVID-19 vaccine

[spidermike007]

One can just see the execs and the shareholders of Big Pharma licking their chops. This plague is an absolute wet dream for them. It is a real shame when some are able to make a fortune off the misfortune of others. I suppose it has always been that way, but it is not necessarily a healthy aspect of modern day society. For sure, it is the ugly side of capitalism. 

 

It would be a great thing if we could impose fines and jail terms on the officials who were responsible for the heinous failure of the vaccination program. They are the one who truly deserve to be locked up. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by spidermike007

[connda]

13 hours ago, JayBird said:

It's an interesting point if this is a 'Human Rights' violation or not.  As far as I know, such things are handled by the Country's own legislation, rather than being dictated by say the UN.

 

I do not know if Thailand has a Human Rights Act (such as the UK, Australia, etc.).  And how many ways that could be interpreted.

 

I do know some legislation takes into consideration the concept of 'Right To Life', and could be used in this situation to state that by an individual not taking the vaccine they are endangering the right to life of others.

 

Legally, I doubt that anything could be done about forced vaccination, certainly not in time, and very unlikely by a foreigner.  And the foreigner always has the option to simply leave if they do not like the rules here, so do not expect much help from your home country.

 

Note: I'm not anti-vaccine.  I'm all for it.  Show me the approved and tested stuff from the US/EU and I'll roll up both sleeves.  However, I have yet to see sufficient data and independent research on the vaccines developed in China to give me the confidence that they are safe and effective.

 

 

This is in direct violation of The Nuremberg Code of the Geneva Convention which Thailand IS a signatory.
The first rule deals with informed consent and the clear willingness of a participant in medical experimentation of participate as well as to choose not to participate.  All the current vaccines are experimental and are in extended live-trials.  None of them are FDA approved in any country nor licensed for use under any situation other tan emergency use.  All manufacturers have been completely indemnified from liability by most governments in the world.  So if you take the shot and get sick - too bad.  If you're forced under duress to take the shot and get sick - too bad.  You have absolutely no recourse to recover damages.  However, those forcing the participation of their populations in live vaccine trials under duress may face future sanctions.  German doctors were hung for forced experimentation after WWII, so the world did not take medical experimentation under duress lightly. 
If this goes pear-shaped in the next couple of years, the governors who take this path may find themselves sitting in a docket in front of a count in Nuremberg.  The argument will be that these are not medical trials and the vaccines have been fully studied and universally approved by governments (non-scientific bodies and individuals).  That will be for future courts to decide should these new gene therapy treatments have any serious, long-term adverse effects.

1. The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. This latter element requires that before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject there should be made known to him the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment; the method and means by which it is to be conducted; all inconveniences and hazards reasonably to be expected; and the effects upon his health or person which may possibly come from his participation in the experiment.
The duty and responsibility for ascertaining the quality of the consent rests upon each individual who initiates, directs, or engages in the experiment. It is a personal duty and responsibility which may not be delegated to another with impunity.

***Full text:  The Nuremberg Code (1947)  http://www.cirp.org/library/ethics/nuremberg/

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, rabas said:

 

Verified medical references with quantified risk assessment? Thanks.

just do a search on google and stop trying to be a s*******e and you might learn something that many countries have learnt about AstraZenica and the side effects

[robertson468]

14 hours ago, smedly said:

This is one step beyond and a massive violation of human rights

 

 

First they say no choice on vaccine now they are going to jail people that refuse

 

It would appear this is because many Thais are refusing to accept the sinovac chinese vaccine so now they are going to force it on people

 

shameful

This is a major breach of human rights and should be referred to The Human Rights Commission.  Personally, I am more than happy to be vaccinated, but making it obligatory with a Court Case for failurd to comply is absolutely ludicrous!

[Kwaibill]

1 hour ago, smudger1951 said:

ThailandRyan, well said, imposing a specific vaccine without any personal choice seems very wrong to me. 

Have you been vaccinated against smallpox?

Yellow fever?

Just a couple of many required vaccinations, depending on location.

In the US SCOTUS ruled long ago that the state absolutely has a legal right to require certain medical actions for the general welfare. Also seatbelts, etc.

Your "right" to swing your fist ends where my nose begins.

[rabas]

Opps.

Edited May 15, 2021 by rabas

[TheFreqFlyer]

2 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

I am afraid that our western idea of Human Rights are often at odds with the application in SE Asian countries, as well as many other countries

You mean because citizens of SE Asian countries are considered to be expendable property by their governments and thus have no rights? 

[BritManToo]

Just now, Kwaibill said:

Have you been vaccinated against smallpox?

Yellow fever?

Were those experimental vaccines?

(I've had neither by the way)

Edited May 15, 2021 by BritManToo

[metisdead]

Some troll posts ad the replies have been removed. 

[TheFreqFlyer]

4 minutes ago, Kwaibill said:

Have you been vaccinated against smallpox?

Yellow fever?

Just a couple of many required vaccinations, depending on location.

In the US SCOTUS ruled long ago that the state absolutely has a legal right to require certain medical actions for the general welfare. Also seatbelts, etc.

Your "right" to swing your fist ends where my nose begins.

There are no mandatory vaccinations in the USA and never will be. States decide vaccination law, and both at the federal and state level, there are exemptions. 

[Cake Monster]

So the Buriram Governor has become the Mouthpiece for a Certain Minister now.

 

[johnarth]

agreeing to do something and being forced to do something are two totally different things, that is what makes the world go round, not to mention the money that can be made here by corrupt people is enormous no holes to poke in this story

[TheFreqFlyer]

47 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

It is not correct to compare the current covid-19 mass-vaccination campaigns with 'old school' targeted mandatory vaccination programs.

Not to mention in the USA there are exemptions to vaccination in every state (although a few make it rather difficult). In those cases, homeschooling is always an option. Clearly that guy didn't do his due diligence. 

[Nanaplaza666]

14 hours ago, sungod said:

I'm kinda confused, first we had a bunch or foreingers complaining they couldn't get a vaccine, now we have a bunch of foreigners complaining they will be forced to have one. ????

If you are confused about that then you might not be the smartest bulb of the lot . Having the chance to choose for your vaccine and willingly taking it is something different then being forced to take whatever !@#$ they put inside you .

[TheFreqFlyer]

2 hours ago, ICELANDMAN said:

 

Maybe you are right but the fear of finding yourself in a cell with 30 overpopulated people and not knowing when I could leave is a threat to be taken into account.

 

I don't think it will get to that, so easily. People can resist - pay a bribe, not allow the authorities into their house, run away, take the government to court etc. For foreigners no issue we just leave the country. For Thais - they have to do one of the things I just mentioned.

[TheFreqFlyer]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

So damned if you do and damned if you don't if you're a foreigner living in Buriram then, by the look of things. Come 1st June I can envisage this sort of conversation taking place:-

 

Buriram cop: "Why haven't you registered for your COVID-19 jab?"

 

Foreigner: "Because as a foreigner I'm not allowed to register before July"

 

Buriram cop: "That's no excuse! It's a 2-year stint for you in the Buriram Hilton, matey."

Doesn't apply to foreigners, so don't worry. 

[Mark17AA]

15 hours ago, RotBenz8888 said:

Expect a catch22 for foreigners soon, you must present proof of vaccination to make extension/90d report while there's no vaccin for foreigners. 

Don't go giving them ideas!!!

[Nanaplaza666]

12 minutes ago, Kwaibill said:

Have you been vaccinated against smallpox?

Yellow fever?

Just a couple of many required vaccinations, depending on location.

In the US SCOTUS ruled long ago that the state absolutely has a legal right to require certain medical actions for the general welfare. Also seatbelts, etc.

Your "right" to swing your fist ends where my nose begins.

In the last year more people died of the covid vaccines that are available then people that have died from every vaccine for whatever illness available in the last 20 years . So now think about where your nose begins . Probably some place where the sun doesn't shine . 

[TheFreqFlyer]

2 hours ago, Keesters said:

Is any country in the world mandating vaccination? 

Yes. Cambodia apparently - starting with government workers and civil servants. Also, red zone residents in Phnom Penh and other cities. Later, the general population. Not sure how a vaccine can be forced on a rural rice farmer though, but most urban residents, especially those in the formal sector of the economy have been warned.

 

Hun Sen did later retract his statement to say that garment factories should not YET demand mandatory vaccination in order to return to work, as there is not enough vaccine around.

 

It is implied that barring a retraction of this threat, that most Cambodians the government designates as being eligible for the vaccine, may be required to receive it by the end of the year. Already most residents of Phnom Penh red zones have. 

 

Check out the numerous articles on khmertimeskh.com and phnompenhpost.com for more details. There are probably at least a dozen articles, dating back to early April, on the topic.

 

Also, Jakarta is threatening fines for refusal, based on a report from the Wall Street Journal.

 

China officially has a mandatory vaccination law in place since Dec 1, 2019. That stated, so far at least, it does not appear that Covid-19 vaccines are being forced on the population at large.

 

This means Thailand (even if so far only Buri Ram) is MORE totalitarian and a greater abuser of human rights, than China is.

 

Given Thailand has gone full gestapo on face masks (whereas in most of China, outdoor face masks haven't been required since August 2020 if not earlier, and in many schools they haven't been required since June 2020) I'd say China has much more freedom at the moment. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by TheFreqFlyer

[rabas]

21 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

just do a search on google and stop trying to be a s*******e and you might learn something that many countries have learnt about AstraZenica and the side effects

Here is the recent research.  It is still speculative but may well be. J&J has announced they will work with the researcher. It is also a new result and I asked for references to see if you were aware of it or were just repeating media hype. If you are aware then you will also know the statistical occurrence is minimal compared to covid clotting. You didn't seem to know this.

 

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/949636

https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-440461/v1

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by rabas

[Neeranam]

14 hours ago, sungod said:

I'm kinda confused, first we had a bunch or foreingers complaining they couldn't get a vaccine, now we have a bunch of foreigners complaining they will be forced to have one. ????

They should be asking for a vaccine for Cabin Fever.

[fleccer]

29 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I know it is an issue for Thais, did I say otherwise?

 

Human rights also apply to Thais

Edited May 15, 2021 by fleccer

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, fleccer said:

Hhuman rights also apply to Thais

Yes, I know. Why are you quoting me?

[Snoopax]

This will open the door to a series of human rights trials.

http://portal.unesco.org/en/ev.php-URL_ID=31058&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html

[Kwaibill]

15 minutes ago, TheFreqFlyer said:

There are no mandatory vaccinations in the USA and never will be. States decide vaccination law, and both at the federal and state level, there are exemptions. 

Sorry, but not correct. In your own words, it is decided at "both the state and federal level".

Children may be denied entry to scool absent vaccination proof.

Green card applicants have a list of absolutely required vaccinations. vaccinations.

"Vaccination policy in the United States - Wikipedia" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_policy_in_the_United_States

[TheFreqFlyer]

5 minutes ago, Nanaplaza666 said:

In the last year more people died of the covid vaccines that are available then people that have died from every vaccine for whatever illness available in the last 20 years . So now think about where your nose begins . Probably some place where the sun doesn't shine . 

Indeed. Easily verifiable through the VAERS database and other government sources.

 

Although I am skeptical of all vaccines, cherry picking and whataboutism has no place in this debate. The yellow fever shot that other guy was talking about is not something very many travelers would have been subjected to. Only relevant if traveling to/coming from certain African and Latin American countries. Medical contraindications would allow for a vaccine exemption certificate. No issues then with traveling. 

 

Clearly some vaccines are more dangerous than others. As you have rightfully stated, these Covid vaccines seem to be by far the most dangerous of any vaccines previously developed and I thought the HPV one was bad; this one is even worse. 

 

Also, as for smallpox vaccines, a little known fact is the WHO directed countries to stop using them, since they were deemed too dangerous. They simply declared smallpox as "eradicated" when in fact, it was the vaccines that were deemed problematic and not the disease, which had already been effectively wiped out decades earlier. This happened in 1980, and since then the only individuals who've received smallpox shots are members of the US armed forces (and possibly other countries). 

[Bobydog]

15 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Maybe we could flip this and insist if the Governor can't provide vaccinations for all those who sign up, he goes to jail until he can.

Good plan, make it so.

[TheFreqFlyer]

3 minutes ago, Kwaibill said:

Sorry, but not correct. In your own words, it is decided at "both the state and federal level".

Children may be denied entry to scool absent vaccination proof.

Green card applicants have a list of absolutely required vaccinations. vaccinations.

"Vaccination policy in the United States - Wikipedia" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_policy_in_the_United_States

Sorry but you are completely incorrect.

 

Personal and religious exemptions can be legally used in most states for school children. 

 

There are NO federal vaccination requirements. For green card applicants, you can absolutely use a personal or religious waiver to get out of the requirement. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by TheFreqFlyer

[Olad Mate]

It's so great that you are first at being the worst. Again

[hugocnx]

14 hours ago, TheFreqFlyer said:

A massive infringement of human rights by an increasingly draconian and totalitarian government. 

 

Can you sue for human rights breaches in the human rights court?

 

I'm not aware of there being mandatory vaccination in Thailand. This sets a dangerous precedent. 

Neurenburg trials