Biggest thing to fear is fear itself

[John Drake]

4 hours ago, faraday said:

It doesn't help that the media whips up & encourages this fear.

 

☀️ + ☁️ = 0

 

As is illustrated in the mangling of FDR's quote that headlined this OP. It's not the "biggest thing to fear is fear itself" but "Nothing to fear but fear itself." 

[rumak]

26 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

It is actually the opposite, with even the CDC saying a few months ago that only 6% of the so-called Covid deaths in America, were from patients suffering from no other comorbidities.

 

The vaxfanatics like to use this argument when dismissing deaths of people who recently got the JAB.     

They do not agree to it when using the argument as you have.

 

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by rumak

[Curt1591]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

You're a well known covid denier. 

And, you're a well known paranoid ...

I don't deny it's existence; I just don't buy into all the fear mongering. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Curt1591

[rickudon]

so called 99.7% survival rate ......... Hungary already has a 0.3% death rate from Covid for the entire population, and a dozen other countries are close. The pandemic is far from over. 98-99% survival rate will probably be realistic.

[bobandyson]

15 minutes ago, John Drake said:

It's not the "biggest thing to fear is fear itself" but "Nothing to fear but fear itself." 

I'm afraid you're quite right.

????

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Me and my family survived (4 people) COVID with no after effects, which is all that counts for me.

Thank you for your insightful contribution to an issue of public health.

[Jeffr2]

7 minutes ago, Curt1591 said:

And, you're a well known paranoid ...

I don't deny it's existence; I just don't buy into all the fear mongering. 

Paranoid?  Ummm...yeah.  How many have died globally so far?  How many more to go?  How many now have potentially life long issues?  Worst pandemic in a century.

 

Hard to put much credibility in what you say with that avatar.  Shows your position clearly.

[Jeffr2]

13 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Poor leadership...as if most countries were enjoying good leadership...all in the same basket I am afraid...

 

Meanwhile, you may have noticed the disappearance of the flu season and its 500 to 600 thousand yearly deaths.

 

Is it that the flu virus has been hiding in fear (that word again) of the Covid virus, or...could it be possible that these flu deaths have been counted as Covid deaths?

Do some research on why the flu season was so mild this year.  Makes sense.  Stick to reliable media sites and you'll find the answer.

[Jeffr2]

26 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

So look at non-USA numbers. 

The UK numbers clearly state died within 28 days of a positive Covid test, not died purely of Covid, but it still supplies a useful statistic. And to 'survive' something, one has to be infected with it. The number seems to be between 98% and 99%. (Slightly higher in UK, lower in Thailand).

I think it's OK to use that number for countries that are doing better reporting.  But to apply it globally doesn't work.  The underlying data is dodgy.

 

Even in the US, they readily admit to under counting in the beginning.  So, even their survival stat is based on incorrect underlying data.

 

P.S. what I did for a living for quite a few years was crunch numbers and provide stats.  I do understand how to lie and cheat with stats very well!! LOL

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, CALSinCM said:

Then Joe Average is capable of finding the percentages of deaths and the primarily demographic that is effected - i.e., and average survivalist well over 99% that primarily kills the elderly who of health problems.

Yet the majority of the world has some type of health problem

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150608081753.htm

 

Over 95% of the world's population had health problems with over a third having more than five ailments.

 

So try and put this into the true perspective of who is vulnerable.

[placeholder]

46 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

It is actually the opposite, with even the CDC saying a few months ago that only 6% of the so-called Covid deaths in America, were from patients suffering from no other comorbidities.

 

In other words, the vast majority of the victims die from, say, cancer + Covid, or diabetes + Covid, and are counted fully as Covid deaths, even though they are deaths WITH Covid and not deaths from Covid.

 

There is also the little fact that American hospitals are given financial incentives for each reported Covid death.

 

It is thus no wonder that the richest/most developed country in the world is also the one that has reported the highest number of covid deaths, way above poor India and it's 1.4 billion population...

Your claim would make more sense if it weren't for the fact of excess mortality figures.

[ThailandRyan]

4 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Do some research on why the flu season was so mild this year.  Makes sense.  Stick to reliable media sites and you'll find the answer.

Primary reason was mask wearing, and hand washing.

[Curt1591]

29 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Come on.  If the death certificate says cause of death was CV19, then it was CV19

My 80-year-old sister died last January. 

Over the last few years, she had been in and out of hospitals, numerous times, for complications of COPD. This round she stayed at home. She was bed ridden for a few weeks. For months before that, she spent most of her time "resting".

Her last bout culminated with a night with 3 strokes, dying from the 3rd. 

Her husband tested positive for covid. She tested positive for covid. Her husband was a symptomatic. She exhibited no symptom differing from her previous bouts with COPD.

My brother-in-law asked the attending EMT, an MD, so she will be another covid statistic. To his surprise, the MD said no, cause of death will be noted as stroke. He continued to say that if she had been an hospital patient, the cause would have been covid, ... BECAUSE THE HOSPITAL GETS $30K for expenses treating covid patients. 

If the death certificate says "stroke" it's "stroke"! 
 

[rcuthbert]

5 minutes ago, Curt1591 said:

My 80-year-old sister died last January. 

Over the last few years, she had been in and out of hospitals, numerous times, for complications of COPD. This round she stayed at home. She was bed ridden for a few weeks. For months before that, she spent most of her time "resting".

Her last bout culminated with a night with 3 strokes, dying from the 3rd. 

Her husband tested positive for covid. She tested positive for covid. Her husband was a symptomatic. She exhibited no symptom differing from her previous bouts with COPD.

My brother-in-law asked the attending EMT, an MD, so she will be another covid statistic. To his surprise, the MD said no, cause of death will be noted as stroke. He continued to say that if she had been an hospital patient, the cause would have been covid, ... BECAUSE THE HOSPITAL GETS $30K for expenses treating covid patients. 

If the death certificate says "stroke" it's "stroke"! 
 

RIP.

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, Curt1591 said:

My 80-year-old sister died last January. 

Over the last few years, she had been in and out of hospitals, numerous times, for complications of COPD. This round she stayed at home. She was bed ridden for a few weeks. For months before that, she spent most of her time "resting".

Her last bout culminated with a night with 3 strokes, dying from the 3rd. 

Her husband tested positive for covid. She tested positive for covid. Her husband was a symptomatic. She exhibited no symptom differing from her previous bouts with COPD.

My brother-in-law asked the attending EMT, an MD, so she will be another covid statistic. To his surprise, the MD said no, cause of death will be noted as stroke. He continued to say that if she had been an hospital patient, the cause would have been covid, ... BECAUSE THE HOSPITAL GETS $30K for expenses treating covid patients. 

If the death certificate says "stroke" it's "stroke"! 
 

In the end, the deaths have to be certified by the doctor, with their job on the line.  And then certified by the coroner, with their job on the line.  These are legal documents and are taken very seriously.

 

One off accounts like this don't really mean anything.  Sad for your loss.  Very.

 

Please show a link proving hospitals get $30k for treating covid patients.  They did get more money, but that doesn't mean they were putting people in the covid death column just to make money.  That's a terrible conspiracy theory.  Shame on you.

[Jeffr2]

3 minutes ago, Curt1591 said:

That avatar is the poster child of no credibilty!

That avatar is the poster child of covid deniers.  Guaranteed.

[placeholder]

57 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

It is actually the opposite, with even the CDC saying a few months ago that only 6% of the so-called Covid deaths in America, were from patients suffering from no other comorbidities.

 

The fact of 

 

9 minutes ago, Curt1591 said:

My 80-year-old sister died last January. 

Over the last few years, she had been in and out of hospitals, numerous times, for complications of COPD. This round she stayed at home. She was bed ridden for a few weeks. For months before that, she spent most of her time "resting".

Her last bout culminated with a night with 3 strokes, dying from the 3rd. 

Her husband tested positive for covid. She tested positive for covid. Her husband was a symptomatic. She exhibited no symptom differing from her previous bouts with COPD.

My brother-in-law asked the attending EMT, an MD, so she will be another covid statistic. To his surprise, the MD said no, cause of death will be noted as stroke. He continued to say that if she had been an hospital patient, the cause would have been covid, ... BECAUSE THE HOSPITAL GETS $30K for expenses treating covid patients. 

If the death certificate says "stroke" it's "stroke"! 
 

If that's what an anonymous doctor told an anonymous brother-in-law who told an anonymous poster on thaivisa about hospital practices, who could reasonably doubt it?

[placeholder]

37 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

As is illustrated in the mangling of FDR's quote that headlined this OP. It's not the "biggest thing to fear is fear itself" but "Nothing to fear but fear itself." 

If the person who said that claimed to be quoting FDR you might have a point. As it is, this is just a case of misguided pedantry.

[Sheryl]

A post with misinformation and replies to it have been removed

[placeholder]

50 minutes ago, CALSinCM said:

The narrative that is promoted by those aligned with pharmachutical companies is that the danger from SARS-Cov-2 is can only be mitagated with a shot that has made the CEOs of of vaccine manufacturers like Moderna instant billionaires (but we're assured that the profit motive is not a conflict of interest as they fight not to waive IP rights to the vaccines for the public good) and then we are told the the vaccines are 100% safe when data that can be found in the US Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, the UK Yellow Card vaccine event reporting system, and the EU vaccine event reporting systems paint a different picture.  Lines like "the risk is outweighed by the reward" assume that the individual shouldn't bother to weight the risk/rewards for themselves.

Stop making things up. Who is it saying that the vaccines are 100% safe? Are there any medicines that are 100% safe?

Your interpretation of what the UK yellow card reporting system tells us that there are lots and lots of individuals out there who clearly are not capable of rationally weighing the risks/rewards for themselves.

A good demonstration of that comes from the state of Ohio where the decline in vaccinations was sharply reversed after the governor of Ohio announced a lottery with 5 one million dollar drawings for citizens who get vaccinated.

A mathematician wrote a book about this: Inumeracy: Mathematical Illiteracy and its Consequences is a 1988 book by mathematician John Allen Paulos about "innumeracy", a term he embraced to describe the mathematical equivalent of illiteracy: incompetence with numbers rather than words. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innumeracy_(book)

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by placeholder

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, Brunolem said:

The deadly virus with 90% asymptomatic cases and a 99.7% survival rate.

 

Talk about fear...mongering!

 

Best estimate of asymptomatic  is 20-50%. There is absolutely no indication of anything near 90%.

 

For diagnosed cases, while it varies by country and patient age, overall the mortality rate is around 1%. Note that this refers only to immediate mortality and does not include deaths later on. The all-cause mortality rate for people who recover from COVID is substantially increased for a full 6 months after recovery, even in people whose cases were asymptomatic or mild. And many develop disabling chronic sequeale - again, even those whose initial infections were mild or asymptomatic.

 

it also does not take into account the deaths from other causes that occur when a health system collapses, as has occurred in several countries and has the potential to occur anywhere that COVID is not well controlled. These often exceed the actual COVID deaths. Which is one reason why excess deaths are so much higher than known COVID deaths.

 

How serious a threat a disease is does nto depend on its case fatality rate. A disease can have a very high CFR and yet cause few deaths. in fact, infectious disease which rapidly kill a high percentage of their victims are usually easy to control. It is precisely the low CFR and presence of asymptomatic  cases that enables COVID to spread so widely.

 

The average 1% CFR has so far translated into  3.4 million known COVID deaths worldwide, actual count is certainly higher given poor reporting of deaths and causes of death, even in normal times, in places like India and South America, and the widespread inavailibility of tests at the early stages of the outbreak. Again, this is nto including all the excess deaths related to the outbreak nor longer term increased mortality in initial survivors.

 

We al have some degree of "COVID fatigue", myself included. But it is not the case that because we have this emotion, the disease is factually unimportant.

 

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Best estimate of asymptomatic  is 20-50%. There is absolutely no indication of anything near 90%.

 

For diagnosed cases, while it varies by country and patient age, overall the mortality rate is around 1%. Note that this refers only to immediate mortality and does not include deaths later on. The all-cause mortality rate for people who recover from COVID is substantially increased for a full 6 months after recovery, even in people whose cases were asymptomatic or mild. And many develop disabling chronic sequeale - again, even those whose initial infections were mild or asymptomatic.

 

it also does not take into account the deaths from other causes that occur when a health system collapses, as has occurred in several countries and has the potential to occur anywhere that COVID is not well controlled. These often exceed the actual COVID deaths. Which is one reason why excess deaths are so much higher than known COVID deaths.

 

How serious a threat a disease is does nto depend on its case fatality rate. A disease can have a very high CFR and yet cause few deaths. in fact, infectious disease which rapidly kill a high percentage of their victims are usually easy to control. It is precisely the low CFR and presence of asymptomatic  cases that enables COVID to spread so widely.

 

The average 1% CFR has so far translated into  3.4 million known COVID deaths worldwide, actual count is certainly higher given poor reporting of deaths and causes of death, even in normal times, in places like India and South America, and the widespread inavailibility of tests at the early stages of the outbreak. Again, this is nto including all the excess deaths related to the outbreak nor longer term increased mortality in initial survivors.

 

We al have some degree of "COVID fatigue", myself included. But it is not the case that because we have this emotion, the disease is factually unimportant.

 

Post of the month!  Great information.  I'll save this! LOL

[Sheryl]

post with social media clip removed per forum rules:

 

18) Social Media content is acceptable in most social forums. However, in factual areas such as news, current affairs and health topics, it cannot be used unless it is from a credible news media source or government agency, and must include a weblink to the original source.

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/terms/

[Brunolem]

45 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Primary reason was mask wearing, and hand washing.

Which somehow stopped the flu virus, but not the COVID virus...makes sense...

[Jeffr2]

Just now, Brunolem said:

Which somehow stopped the flu virus, but not the COVID virus...makes sense...

Impossible to compare the flu with covid.  Though some desperately try.

[cdnvic]

If you are making a claim about a medical issue, post a citation from a reliable source along with it. Youtube randos and blogs are not reliable sources.

 

Name calling and personal attacks can stop immediately or we will have to take measures to calm things down.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, cyril sneer said:

because it's shown to be 50% effective, so the fear is in still catching covid after having it, and not having an option to change to another vaccine afterwards

 

Efficacy in preventing any symptomatic disease = 50 - 84% in Phase III trials, depending on country/variant

 

Efficacy in preventing severe disease = 85 - 100%

 

 

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Best estimate of asymptomatic  is 20-50%. There is absolutely no indication of anything near 90%.

 

For diagnosed cases, while it varies by country and patient age, overall the mortality rate is around 1%. Note that this refers only to immediate mortality and does not include deaths later on. The all-cause mortality rate for people who recover from COVID is substantially increased for a full 6 months after recovery, even in people whose cases were asymptomatic or mild. And many develop disabling chronic sequeale - again, even those whose initial infections were mild or asymptomatic.

 

Study: COVID-19 Can Kill Months After Infection

By Ralph Ellis, Brenda Goodman, MA

April 23, 2021 -- Long-haul COVID-19 patients face many health threats -- including a higher chance of dying -- up to 6 months after they catch the virus, according to a massive study published in the journal Nature...

Those findings translate into about eight extra deaths per 1,000 patients over 6 months, because many deaths caused by long-term COVID complications are not recorded as COVID-19 deaths, the researchers said. Among patients who were hospitalized and died after more than 30 days, there were 29 excess deaths per 1,000 patients over 6 months.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210423/covid-study-deaths-months-after-infection

[John Drake]

5 hours ago, faraday said:

 I absolutely agree.

 

How many more threads/discussions/angles are possible on Covid?

 

It gets so boring!

 

☀️ +☁️ =0

 

It is as if all of TVF's Thai News posts are being directed to one topic so the same four or five people can post the same things endlessly. It appears that some people never leave their computer/phone. Covid boors.

[Jeffr2]

3 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

It is as if all of TVF's Thai News posts are being directed to one topic so the same four or five people can post the same things endlessly. It appears that some people never leave their computer/phone. Covid boors.

Not much else news to post!  As for me, we've been in lock down for weeks.  Restaurants just opened back up, with no booze being sold.  Still can't sit on the beach, especially in groups of more than 2.  Not sure what else there is to do! LOL  Definitely boring.