A closer look at Sinopharm, Thailand’s first alternative vaccine

[pizzachang]

If they are not the rNA "vaccines", they are way less risky, so more people will get them.

[kamahele]

3 hours ago, tingtong said:

Why first, if ppl want Moderna, and it was approved weeks earlier...plus there is willing ppl to actually pay for it the "non-profit" double price like farangs always do...and still...the Chinese bribes win the race??

 

I think it is to increase the availability of vaccines overall and speed the vaccination process. I know a private hospital groups that had ordered 2 million doses of Sinopharm months back back it took until just now for this vaccine to be approved. In the meantime the hospital switched to Sinovac which also they haven't been able to get through the government.

[Rhacsyn]

40 minutes ago, MajorTom said:

None of the Chinese vaccines seems to be very effective. At least not until you get close to 100% vaccination. Clinical trials can say whatever they want. We now have real world data from countries that vaccinated millions of people using mainly sinovac or sinopharm:

 

Seychelles: 70% (63%fully)vaccinated. Cases and deaths still rising.

Bahrain: 50+%(44%fully) Vaccinated. Cases and deaths skyrocketing

Chile:  50+% (41%fully)Vaccinated. No significant effect on cases or deaths.

Maldives: 57% (30% fully) Vaccinated. Significant increase in cases and deaths.

 

There is however a town in Brazil that used the sinovac with good results. But they are at 100% vaccination rate.

 

Then take a look at Israel or Gibraltar back in time that used mainly Pfizer. Cases and deaths started diving at 30+% and thats only partial vaccination. And well before that level in the UK(Mainly Astra Zeneca) or USA.

 

I fear that re-opening Phuket with 70% of the population vaccinated with mainly sinopharm will not work as planned.. Hope im wrong.

 

I understand your concern but Phuket will, like the rest of Thailand, aim for mass vaccination (subject to availability ????) and continue after the 1st of July trial starts. Well I hope so anyway!! By the way, the report from Seychelles does state that "almost all" of the critical and severe cases requiring intensive care treatment had not been vaccinated. To date, none of the patients there who have died with Covid-19 have been fully vaccinated. A slightly brighter picture.

 

You could also add UAE to your list where serious cases and deaths fell after mass vaccination started with Sinopharm. But the picture there is slightly clouded as they also introduced Pfizer and to a lesser extent AZ (and Sputnik) to the vaccination programme.

 

Apologies for being pedantic but it is Sinovac that is being administered in Phuket and not Sinopharm as in your post.

[club]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

He does not have a 40% chance of getting COVID; he probably did nto have that high a chance even if unvaccinated, though of course it depends on where is and what he does etc.

 

People commonly misunderstand what vaccine efficacy/ effectiveness rates mean. They do not refer to the absolute risk of getting synptomatic COVID or severe COVID. Rather in both  cases they refer to the % reduction in risk compared to being unvaccinated. (The difference between efficacy and efficetivess = under clinical trla condtions vs real world conditions. Efficacy and effectivenss rates may or may net vary, so far with the COVID vaccines they haven't much).

 

For a vaccine with 80% effectiveness, it means that the risk is only 20% of what it would be if unvaccinated. The unvaccinated risk is not going to be 100%,  so it does not mean your risk is now 20%. Suppose your risk, unvaccinated, is 50% (just as an example, actual will vary). With an 80% effective vaccine your risk becomes only 10% (an 80% reduction). If your unvaccinated risk was 30%, then with an 80% effectice vaccine it becomes only 2%. Etc

 

With any vaccine, risk of symptomatic disease and risk of severe disease will differ, Those risks also differ in unvaccinated people.

 

 

You know, I was going to delete that. It just didn't come out the way I wanted . You are right 

[overherebc]

33 minutes ago, club said:

My brother in law just got a jab of Sinovac and was told by the doctor he still has a 40% chance of contracting Covid but not ending up in a ICU. He was told to still where a mask

 

Sounds like good advice from the doctor.

[Pattaya Spotter]

31 minutes ago, club said:

My brother in law just got a jab of Sinovac and was told by the doctor he still has a 40% chance of contracting Covid but not ending up in a ICU. He was told to still where a mask

Yes I understand that's standard advice for all the vaccines...you can still catch the virus but any case of Covid is usually mild (and almost no deaths).

[Pattaya Spotter]

25 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

He does not have a 40% chance of getting COVID; he probably did nto have that high a chance even if unvaccinated, though of course it depends on where is and what he does etc.

 

People commonly misunderstand what vaccine efficacy/ effectiveness rates mean. They do not refer to the absolute risk of getting synptomatic COVID or severe COVID. Rather in both  cases they refer to the % reduction in risk compared to being unvaccinated. (The difference between efficacy and efficetivess = under clinical trla condtions vs real world conditions. Efficacy and effectivenss rates may or may net vary, so far with the COVID vaccines they haven't much).

 

For a vaccine with 80% effectiveness, it means that the risk is only 20% of what it would be if unvaccinated. The unvaccinated risk is not going to be 100%,  so it does not mean your risk is now 20%. Suppose your risk, unvaccinated, is 50% (just as an example, actual will vary). With an 80% effective vaccine your risk becomes only 10% (an 80% reduction). If your unvaccinated risk was 30%, then with an 80% effectice vaccine it becomes only 2%. Etc

 

With any vaccine, risk of symptomatic disease and risk of severe disease will differ, Those risks also differ in unvaccinated people.

 

 

Yes, because a person's risk of being infected with the virus isn't 100%. As they say..."Lies...darn lies...and statistics."

Edited May 29, 2021 by Pattaya Spotter

[nightfox]

2 hours ago, mistral53 said:

Slow day today.......just a few of the China bashers on duty? I expected at least 25 pages about 'China-bad' comments within the hour............lol

I'm waiting for the Thailand to import Russian Spuknik vaccine thread.

[Isaan sailor]

1 hour ago, Sir Dude said:

I'm not really very enthusiastic about any of the current options here for vaccines or the people behind each one. I'd like to wait for the Moderna or J&J to become available as often seems that everyone here is being coerced into taking the Chinese vaccines/cheap knock-off local versions for less than straight-up reasons. Another reason is that when travel becomes more easy, who's to say we won't have to have had an approved vaccine by the destination country. Can't shake the feeling that that could be a problem in the future.

 

On top of that, it seems that some highly credible reseachers and award-winning scientists are about to publish proof that the Covid virus isn't from nature and has to have been manipulated in a lab, with accusations the Chinese were up to something called "Gain of Function" research, which Obama banned for a while during his presidency due to how dangerous it is. Part of the evidence has something to do with how many amino acids are present within the virus and their configuration in a row. The amino acids are all positively charged and the reason it's so infectious is because the human cell parts they attach to are negatively charged. But, the caveat is, these positively charged amino acids normally repel each other and it is highly unlikely to even find 3 positively charged ones in a row in natural organisms ... and the laws of physics rule out the possiblility of 4 in a row unless manipulated in a lab. Also, there seems to be evidence of cover-up attempts to retro-engineer the virus to make it look like it came from nature too.

 

All looking a bit damning for the CCP. Many people thought this was the case but it looks like some strong evidence is going to come to light in the next few days. I won't be taking their vaccines if I can avoid it, even if I have to hold up at home until Moderna/J&J etc. finally arrives. The CCP couldn't lie straight in bed. Only fly in the ointment is if Immigration Department links visa approval to being vaccinated.
 

Thanks for your thoughts.  You nailed it.  Best to wait a bit longer, and see how the AZ plays out.

[placeholder]

45 minutes ago, pizzachang said:

If they are not the rNA "vaccines", they are way less risky, so more people will get them.

nonsense. Virtually every poll shows people clamoring for the vaccines that are rated most effective. Consistently, these are the mRNA vaccines. Effectiveness is actually an overrated criterion, but that's the way it is.

[rbkk]

1 hour ago, club said:

Sinopharm is one of the most expensive vaccines . More then Pfizer and moderna and according to its clinical trials its really not that good. A little better then Sinovac

No. Not here in Thailand. In another thread here the prof. from the importers of Sinopharm said 1000 baht a dose (Insurance included) against Pfizer (insurance included)2000 baht a dose. Also Pfizer could arrive in August but will all the doses be kept for the minors and school kids?

here we go. Link.  https://www.thaipbsworld.com/a-closer-look-at-sinopharm-thailands-first-alternative-vaccine/

Edited May 29, 2021 by rbkk
Link

[MajorTom]

58 minutes ago, Rhacsyn said:

 

By the way, the report from Seychelles does state that "almost all" of the critical and severe cases requiring intensive care treatment had not been vaccinated. To date, none of the patients there who have died with Covid-19 have been fully vaccinated. A slightly brighter picture.

 

You could also add UAE to your list where serious cases and deaths fell after mass vaccination started with Sinopharm. But the picture there is slightly clouded as they also introduced Pfizer and to a lesser extent AZ (and Sputnik) to the vaccination programme.

 

Apologies for being pedantic but it is Sinovac that is being administered in Phuket and not Sinopharm as in your post.

Im not saying chinese vaccines are not working. They are just underperforming compared to others.

My point is: In the big picture, both cases and deaths are rising in several countries using sinopharm and sinovac. Even in the Seychelles at 70% vaccination. It does not matter if the dead are vaccinated or not. They are still dead. Actually 20% of the cases needing hospital treatment in the Seychelles were fully vaccinated.

 

If you compare to countries that has been using other vaccines, both cases and deaths started to plunge at 30% vaccination level and some even before.

 

Sorry typo on my behalf. Im aware its Sinovac that has been used in Thailand and not Sinopharm.

 

 

 

 

[holy cow cm]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Not enough China apologists left to argue with.....

But there are a few trying to be or forced to be on good behavior. : - )

[Isaan sailor]

No thanks, SinoVac—I don’t buy or use Chinese products anyway.

[Ventenio]

Why don't they give it to the falangs FIRST????

 

Sure, everyone will know they will be experimenting on us..........but I don't think that's against any law here.

 

I honestly don't think they think falangs will die or will hurt the falang, but maybe they want to just make sure first.  

[clivebaxter]

why are both the Chinese vaccines not recommended for the over 60's and how did the Chinese vaccinate older people?

[Gold Star]

With the poor selection Sinovac and AZ as it's main vaccines, the government's lack of foresight has put Thailand on the main path to attempt to take the fangs out of the virus, without the added benefit of reducing infections or eradicating it.

 

I think we must accept that it will be with us for a long time, but that it is rendered harmless for those that had the jab, becoming more like a normal flu that keeps going around.

 

As many won't get these vaccines, infection reports and deaths will continue to be reported, albeit at a lower rate than before.  Restrictions will be drawn out longer, and we may be required to wear masks for a long time.

 

Unfortunately, this policy will not bring back international tourism, as Thailand will be seen as a viral hotspot for years to come. The difficulties for tourists to return home with quarantines, testing, and so on will not make the trip worthwhile.

 

Additionally, those of us wishing to travel to our home countries or other places around the globe may have issues if we do not have an approved or accepted vaccine.

 

Eventually, they will come to realize that proper universally accepted vaccines with high efficacy rates must be made available for all, if Thailand has any hope of returning to a shadow of its former self.

 

For me at present to keep me safe, I would accept any vaccine available right now if offered, with the intent of paying for a Moderna or Pfizer set once available in the future.

 

 

[hotchilli]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

The Sinopharm jab is an inactivated COVID-19 vaccine developed by Sinopharm/China National Pharmaceutical Group and approved by the World Health Organization (WHO) for people aged 18 and above. The shot requires two doses at a recommended interval of three to four weeks.

So one million amounts to diddly-squat.

[hotchilli]

32 minutes ago, clivebaxter said:

why are both the Chinese vaccines not recommended for the over 60's and how did the Chinese vaccinate older people?

CCP encouragement..

[placeholder]

57 minutes ago, Isaan sailor said:

No thanks, SinoVac—I don’t buy or use Chinese products anyway.

You may think you don't but...

Drug Industry’s China Habit Will Take Time to Kick

Given enough policy support—and patience—India is in a good position to challenge the manufacturing might of its northern neighbor in drug ingredients

https://www.wsj.com/articles/drug-industrys-china-habit-will-take-time-to-kick-11595851558

[placeholder]

22 minutes ago, Gold Star said:

Unfortunately, this policy will not bring back international tourism, as Thailand will be seen as a viral hotspot for years to come. The difficulties for tourists to return home with quarantines, testing, and so on will not make the trip worthwhile.

 

Far more important to international tourism is whether or not tourists are vaccinated. Since the overwhelming majority of them will be, I don't think Thai levels of vaccination are going to make much of a difference.

[Isaan sailor]

The fact that Thailand has thus far kept Pfizer and Moderna vaccines out, in favor of SinoVac and a home-made AZ, could hurt them in more ways than the obvious.

Anyone can internet search “countries using Pfizer vaccine” or “countries using Moderna vaccine”, and base any future travel decisions on this.

[jacko45k]

41 minutes ago, clivebaxter said:

why are both the Chinese vaccines not recommended for the over 60's and how did the Chinese vaccinate older people?

There was a lack of empirical data for that age group which precluded them from the recommendation... but since then, China has done a study that confirmed it was suitable. Sorry I cannot link to my source here (hint). 

[rbkk]

No Sinopharm for you and me, directly! It now seems you need your organisation to purchase for you, and they cannot charge you for it. Interesting to read that they are also in price negotiations for a 20 Million doses order after this 1 Miliion doses order. Helping out the government financially with the vaccine bill.

 https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2123691/sinopharm-sold-only-to-organisations

[Rhacsyn]

30 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

There was a lack of empirical data for that age group which precluded them from the recommendation... but since then, China has done a study that confirmed it was suitable. Sorry I cannot link to my source here (hint). 

Understood ????.  The Chinese have been using said Chinese vaccinating for the over 70's, 80's, 90's and 100's too

[EricTh]

I just asked a private hospital and it said that both Moderna and Sinopharm price per vaccine is around 1500 baht for one dose.

[Fromas]

4 hours ago, Sir Dude said:

On top of that, it seems that some highly credible reseachers and award-winning scientists are about to publish proof that the Covid virus isn't from nature and has to have been manipulated in a lab, with accusations the Chinese were up to something called "Gain of Function" research, which Obama banned for a while during his presidency due to how dangerous it is. Part of the evidence has something to do with how many amino acids are present within the virus and their configuration in a row. The amino acids are all positively charged and the reason it's so infectious is because the human cell parts they attach to are negatively charged.

 

Fascinating. Your source for this? Or are you one of the highly credible reseachers?
 

A long but even handed account of Gain of Function research and the origins of SARS-CoV-2: The Wuhan Lab and the Gain-of-Function Disagreement - FactCheck.org

 

 

 

[Lemonltr]

4 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

You're right, your post was formed in the manner of a question but it was really just emphasising those alleged efficiency figures.

 

"so if a first jab of vaccines give say 60% protection that would not make a difference if the recipients were to contract Covid".

I don't really understand what that question means, "not make a difference" to what? 

 

Either way, I've no idea, I'm not a virologist or epidemiologist but my understanding is that the 2-dose vaccines are not considered effective until the second dose has been given, i.e. if there's no 2nd dose, the first dose would be redundant. 

 

 

The AZ vaccine was quite effective against the UK (Kent) variant. (any months hard data) it also needed longer to produce antibodies. With the new Indian one although reduced efficacy was still  competent after 2. Too early yet but only 33% after 1 dose. Only lab analysis possible so far. 

This Indian variant is very rapidly becoming dominant in UK as Thailand will soon discover. 

[rbkk]

6 minutes ago, EricTh said:

I just asked a private hospital and it said that both Moderna and Sinopharm price per vaccine is around 1500 baht for one dose.

No. It's not going to be for resale (In Thailand) and you'll need a work permit! Example: a private school would buy for their teachers at no cost to the teachers.

[ThailandRyan]

17 minutes ago, EricTh said:

I just asked a private hospital and it said that both Moderna and Sinopharm price per vaccine is around 1500 baht for one dose.

Do they  have Moderna and if so where.  PM me the details if positive they have the vaccine