Police had no warrant for raid on luxury house in Pattaya, lawyer claims

[JamieM]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

 

You are assuming they knew he only had one pistol.

It does seem likely in my opinion.

 

2 minutes ago, Leaver said:

You haven't answered at all. You have said it's your opinion.  I am asking you what you have based your opinion on.  

I have answered this my opinion is based on the Chief putting his ass on the line saying that the Chinese state media have edited the video please read above.

 

I will not reply to anyone that is not reading what I have already said as going in circles like this is the definition of insanity. 

[Leaver]

3 minutes ago, JamieM said:

I think you have no idea how many times a day a pistol is pulled in Thailand, if they sent special forces everytime they would be very busy indeed.

 

A pistol wasn't pulled on this occasion.  It was a building entry.  Completely different situation.  

[JamieM]

4 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

A pistol wasn't pulled on this occasion.  

How did two police end up getting shot then? ????‍♂️ this is getting ridiculous. 

 

Ok boys I have said my piece and made my opinion known I will leave it here.

 

Have a nice day ????

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by JamieM

[Leaver]

1 minute ago, JamieM said:

I have answered this my opinion is based on the Chief putting his ass on the line saying that the Chinese state media have edited the video please read above.

 

All of the footage can not be edited. 

 

Just seeing their clothing, lack of equipment, and their approach to the building, tells me something was not right with this operation.  

 

Why the need for plain clothes, when stealth was not an issue?  The target was inside the property.  

[Leaver]

3 minutes ago, JamieM said:

How did two police end up getting shot then? ????‍♂️ this is getting ridiculous. 

 

Ok boys I have said my piece and made my opinion known I will leave it here.

 

Have a nice day ????

 

 

The pistol was used INSIDE the the property on people that did not show, or prove to the occupant, they were police. 

 

You haven't put forward an opinion.  You have only put forward a belief in the Chief's statement.     

[wadman]

Just now, Leaver said:

 

The pistol was used INSIDE the the property on people that did not show, or prove to the occupant, they were police. 

 

You haven't put forward an opinion.  You have only put forward a belief in the Chief's statement.     

 

Actually, the really puzzling part is that according to the timestamps of the video, the shooting started 1 full hour after the police had entered that door (which allegedly leads to a bedroom).  1 hour later, and the occupants of the house are still armed, or able to get their hands on a gun?

[Leaver]

5 minutes ago, wadman said:

 

Actually, the really puzzling part is that according to the timestamps of the video, the shooting started 1 full hour after the police had entered that door (which allegedly leads to a bedroom).  1 hour later, and the occupants of the house are still armed, or able to get their hands on a gun?

 

The time in the CCTV NVR or DVR could be wrong in the settings. Also, there could have been two CCTV systems.  Not surprising, given it's a large house.  

[impulse]

10 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

There's no "highly doubt" about it, foreigners cannot own firearms legally in Thailand.

 

But there were other people living in the house.  The OP mentions translators and his wife in the same breath.  Perhaps his wife is Thai and has a pistol permit?  As I recall, there were Thai people associated with the address.  Perhaps one or more of them had permits?

 

Sure, he shouldn't have picked up the weapon, even if he thought his family was being victimized by nefarious looking entities who didn't identify themselves as police.   But people do desperate things when their home is being attacked.

 

Not to mention, the Thai popo are often the nefarious entities, doing the kidnapping and extorting.   Leading to my wingnut conspiracy theory de jour that this was a kidnapping gone horribly wrong when the guy fought back.  Outlandish?  Maybe, but just as credible as any other narrative, especially given the extreme contrast between the CCTV videos of the raid (nobody in uniform) vs the later videos (for public consumption where they're all in body armor).  Seems rather disingenuous, like they have something to hide...

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by impulse

[wadman]

Just now, Leaver said:

 

The time in the CCTV NVR or DVR could be wrong in the settings. Also, there could have been two CCTV systems.  Not surprising, given it's a large house.  

 

It is the same camera.  Labelled as "camera F2" in the video.  Filming the exact same door, from the exact same angle.

[Leaver]

4 minutes ago, wadman said:

 

It is the same camera.  Labelled as "camera F2" in the video.  Filming the exact same door, from the exact same angle.

 

But is it filming at the exact same time?  ????

[wadman]

4 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

But is it filming at the exact same time?  ????

 

There is a date and time stamp on the video from that camera.  Can that be tampered with, can video be altered?  Maybe, but it doesn't appear so.  And doing so actually does NOT support the cause of the occupants of the house at all.  Their best defence is: "some rabble ran into house, looking like they were up to no good, no ID, no warrant, I shot out of fear and in self defence, everything happened in a matter of seconds" 

[mancub]

11 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

My guess is thin times for plod decided to raid and plunder forgot the dodgy occupiers might be tooled up now all over the media typical Thai mess to be forgotten about in a week or two????

Agree, slim pickings these days, so the previously "untouchable" are being visited. 

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Hey Sherlock, they needed to have probable cause / reasonable suspicion that he had an illegal firearm before they even went there.  They didn't, and it appears they didn't even have a warrant to search the house, for anything.  

 

How do you know they didn't? They certainly came armed....

[petedk]

If you watch the reenactment video, you will see all the police in uniform lined up outside the building.

That doesn't really correspond to the cctv images.

[Rimmer]

Hearsay post removed also some troll posts removed

[silent]

On 5/29/2021 at 11:55 AM, worgeordie said:

A very rich man....11 people running towards your house, they dont look like

Police,he understandably thinks he is going to be kidnapped for a ransom,

he might have heard it's happened here before........

 

regards Worgeordie

plus what other defense is there  

Edited May 30, 2021 by silent

[MasterBaker]

On 5/29/2021 at 11:40 AM, webfact said:

why a legitimate businessman would have a high powered weapon in his possession. 

really? is this a question?

[PETERTHEEATER]

18 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I always had 3-5 uniformed officers banging on my door in the UK when they wanted to arrest or question me. And outside my house would be a marked police car, or 3.

Presumably you have difficulty in obtaining a 'police certificate' when requested by Immigration? ????

[BritManToo]

Just now, PETERTHEEATER said:

Presumably you have difficulty in obtaining a 'police certificate' when requested by Immigration? ????

Not required for Non-O VISA.

 

[hotchilli]

On 5/29/2021 at 11:40 AM, webfact said:

The case has caused widespread concern in Thailand. Questions remain as to why a legitimate businessman would have a high powered weapon in his possession.

Faults on both sides... but hey just another day in paradise.

[johng]

20 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I always had 3-5 uniformed officers banging on my door in the UK when they wanted to arrest or question me. And outside my house would be a marked police car, or 3.

 

One time I had a single uniformed Thai cop and a squad of 6 armed with rifles army soldiers knocking on my door at 6 AM

searching for a drug dealer   who happened to live on the 2nd floor   apartment under me  lucky we didn't have any machines guns to open fire with ????

[Liverpool Lou]

15 hours ago, impulse said:

On 5/29/2021 at 1:11 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

There's no "highly doubt" about it, foreigners cannot own firearms legally in Thailand.

 

But there were other people living in the house.  The OP mentions translators and his wife in the same breath.  Perhaps his wife is Thai and has a pistol permit? 

That assumption has nothing to do with my comment about the undisputed illegality of foreigners owning firearms here.

[dennnis]

On 5/29/2021 at 12:59 PM, Yellowtail said:

If the police want to knock, wait, and ask to be allowed in, what is the point of the search warrant? 

 

In the US they simultaneously knock and announce themselves and then (depending on their suspicions) knock the door down. 

I think that the US police is not something what other police should follow. Just my opinion from reading US news lately.

[Thingamabob]

Much more to come on this I reckon.

[Leaver]

9 hours ago, jacko45k said:

How do you know they didn't? They certainly came armed....

 

It's been reported a search warrant was not in existence at the time of the raid, also, if you were doing a raid that involved illegal firearms, would you do a building entry in that fashion, and with minimal protective equipment?  I don't think so.  

[Proboscis]

On 5/29/2021 at 12:53 PM, sammieuk1 said:

My guess is thin times for plod decided to raid and plunder forgot the dodgy occupiers might be tooled up now all over the media typical Thai mess to be forgotten about in a week or two????

I think the police assumed that since it is illegal in the Kingdom for foreigners to have a firearm that the foreign occupier would not have a firearm.

[jacko45k]

12 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

It's been reported a search warrant was not in existence at the time of the raid, also, if you were doing a raid that involved illegal firearms, would you do a building entry in that fashion, and with minimal protective equipment?  I don't think so.  

Well as stated they came well armed , so they were ready for something. 

Heaven knows how the police plan things...... thought they were raiding a gay party. 

[impulse]

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That assumption has nothing to do with my comment about the undisputed illegality of foreigners owning firearms here.

 

You sure he owned it?  Or did it belong to someone else living in the house? 

 

Foreigners can no longer register new firearms since just recently, but are the ones that were registered years ago grandfathered in?  So it's not exactly "undisputed" that his was an illegal firearm...

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by impulse

[Seismic]

On 5/29/2021 at 1:11 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

There's no "highly doubt" about it, foreigners cannot own firearms legally in Thailand.

Prior to 2017 that was not the case. The other point is that around 1 in 10 Thai's legally own a firearm but there are enough firearms (legal and illegal)in the country to make that figure over 15 per 100.  Which is far far higher than any other SEA country.

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

Well as stated they came well armed , so they were ready for something. 

 

Obviously not, with two shot.