Another Thai woman dies after receiving AstraZeneca COVID-19 jab

[mommysboy]

When you have mass inoculation deaths will occur that may be coincidental, or be proximal, or rarely a direct result of the vaccine. If you are vaccinating hundreds of thousands of people daily it will happen daily.  But nobody reports that the vast majority are ok.

 

Of course it is shocking when someone who is seemingly healthy dies suddenly, but it often proves misleading to describe them as young, fit, and healthy.  Nearly always the victim has an underlying undetected health condition.  The vaccine is merely coincidental, or at worse incidental but not the prime mover.

 

Reported sudden deaths with the AZ vaccine are actually no higher than any other vaccine (lower than some in fact), and in line with the general background population, ie, people just naturally dying as they do every day unfortunately.  In fact in the UK all death mortality was actually lower when studied.

 

There is a specific syndrome which can be fatal known as VITT, which is rare thankfully. It occurs 5-28 days after inoculation, and has specific characteristics.  It is associated with the vector vaccines, such as AZ and J and J.

 

The big danger is that daily reporting of the single deaths that will happen daily as a mere matter of nature creates undue vaccine hesitancy.  The news becomes exaggerated, distorted, and amplified.  It really is terrible reporting imo.  It stops ordinary people who need have no fear whatsoever from getting vaccinated.

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, Thungrat said:

For what you have to know the medical history? Many people die after the vaccination, do you think that is a coincidence?

 

Well yes, in 99% of cases it is just that.  People die everyday- and they go on dying whether they had a vaccine recently or not.  Hadn't you noticed?

 

I think in some cases vaccination probably is the straw that breaks the camel's back however.

[billd766]

27 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

There is good reason for Thais not wanting the Chinese one.

The AStra is made poorly in Thailand ans is dangerous. 

Proof please, otherwise it is only your word.

[n8sail]

3 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Tell  us  how  many died  on the way  home on their  motorbikes!

Purely anecdotal, but relevant nonetheless:

 

A girl I dated before had to go get tested for COVID a couple times as every other person working with her tested positive.   On the last test, the motocy taxi driver got in a bad accident on the way back from test site and she was pretty banged up.  Cost her 3000 baht, which she doesn't have due to....  you guessed it, business was closed due to COVID.

 

She never tested positive, and her co-workers all recovered with nearly zero symptoms.  One had slight fever for a day and another lost taste for 2 days.

[MainBerry]

23 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

When you have mass inoculation deaths will occur that may be coincidental, or be proximal, or rarely a direct result of the vaccine. If you are vaccinating hundreds of thousands of people daily it will happen daily.  But nobody reports that the vast majority are ok.

 

Of course it is shocking when someone who is seemingly healthy dies suddenly, but it often proves misleading to describe them as young, fit, and healthy.  Nearly always the victim has an underlying undetected health condition.  The vaccine is merely coincidental, or at worse incidental but not the prime mover.

 

Reported sudden deaths with the AZ vaccine are actually no higher than any other vaccine (lower than some in fact), and in line with the general background population, ie, people just naturally dying as they do every day unfortunately.  In fact in the UK all death mortality was actually lower when studied.

 

There is a specific syndrome which can be fatal known as VITT, which is rare thankfully. It occurs 5-28 days after inoculation, and has specific characteristics.  It is associated with the vector vaccines, such as AZ and J and J.

 

The big danger is that daily reporting of the single deaths that will happen daily as a mere matter of nature creates undue vaccine hesitancy.  The news becomes exaggerated, distorted, and amplified.  It really is terrible reporting imo.  It stops ordinary people who need have no fear whatsoever from getting vaccinated.

 

You have some interesting points, however there are two sides of the story.

 

If you look at the statistics, you will notice that a certain age group is more at risk of dying than the other one. This gets under reported ("we are all in this together"). To sum it up, up to the age of 50 dying of covid is basically non existent and definitely statistically insignificant.

 

What the statistic not shows is , if and how many underlying conditions (overweight, diabetes, cancer, smoking, suppressed immune system, etc.) the people who died had. The same way you stated that we cannot say if people die because of their "non diagnosed underlying condition" or the vaccine. However, since doctors are told side effects are very very rare and actually "never happen", a blood clot in the brain or a heart stopping (f. ex. a healthy soccer player) can easily misdiagnosed as not related to the vaccine and this is what we currently see happening! A chronic under reporting of side effects. On the other hand, it is easy to diagnose "died of Covid" because, well, the consensus is, that Covid kills and if you die while having Covid, it is easily "because of" and not "contributing" or "together with X other serious illnesses".

 

 

 

The reality led the Norwegian director of CDC to the following statement:

 

 

40 people currently die per 1 million vaccinated (reported by VAERS and Germany and Austria, statistics can be provided if you are unable to get to this figure by yourself). This means that I would agree with the Norwegian CDC director by saying that vaccines may kill more people than Covid, mainly however if you are in a certain age group. Example: Imagine if we start vaccinated children and youths.

[Neeranam]

11 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Proof please, otherwise it is only your word.

Proof of what? 

[Neeranam]

7 minutes ago, n8sail said:

Purely anecdotal, but relevant nonetheless:

 

A girl I dated before had to go get tested for COVID a couple times as every other person working with her tested positive.   On the last test, the motocy taxi driver got in a bad accident on the way back from test site and she was pretty banged up.  Cost her 3000 baht, which she doesn't have due to....  you guessed it, business was closed due to COVID.

 

She never tested positive, and her co-workers all recovered with nearly zero symptoms.  One had slight fever for a day and another lost taste for 2 days.

My 79-year-old mother, 88/92-year-old aunts had covid and had no symptoms. They are healthy.

[Nojohndoe]

11 minutes ago, MainBerry said:

 

You have some interesting points, however there are two sides of the story.

 

If you look at the statistics, you will notice that a certain age group is more at risk of dying than the other one. This gets under reported ("we are all in this together"). To sum it up, up to the age of 50 dying of covid is basically non existent and definitely statistically insignificant.

 

What the statistic not shows is , if and how many underlying conditions (overweight, diabetes, cancer, smoking, suppressed immune system, etc.) the people who died had. The same way you stated that we cannot say if people die because of their "non diagnosed underlying condition" or the vaccine. However, since doctors are told side effects are very very rare and actually "never happen", a blood clot in the brain or a heart stopping (f. ex. a healthy soccer player) can easily misdiagnosed as not related to the vaccine and this is what we currently see happening! A chronic under reporting of side effects. On the other hand, it is easy to diagnose "died of Covid" because, well, the consensus is, that Covid kills and if you die while having Covid, it is easily "because of" and not "contributing" or "together with X other serious illnesses".

 

 

 

The reality led the Norwegian director of CDC to the following statement:

 

 

40 people currently die per 1 million vaccinated (reported by VAERS and Germany and Austria, statistics can be provided if you are unable to get to this figure by yourself). This means that I would agree with the Norwegian CDC director by saying that vaccines may kill more people than Covid, mainly however if you are in a certain age group. Example: Imagine if we start vaccinated children and youths.

I am left wondering what the death toll in Norway would be/have been if no vaccinations were given at all? Nor do the statistics provide any consideration of the long term damage done as a result of serious symptomatic covid infection which have been reported to be around  30% and have led to some premature deaths due to such organ damage post infection recovery.

 

 

[billd766]

19 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Proof of what? 

Proof of this.

 

57 minutes ago, Neeranam said:
There is good reason for Thais not wanting the Chinese one.

The AStra is made poorly in Thailand ans is dangerous. 

 

You said it. so please provide the proof of your post.

Edited June 15, 2021 by billd766
Added extra text

[MainBerry]

2 minutes ago, Nojohndoe said:

I am left wondering what the death toll in Norway would be/have been if no vaccinations were given at all? Nor do the statistics provide any consideration of the long term damage done as a result of serious symptomatic covid infection which have been reported to be around  30% and have led to some premature deaths due to such organ damage post infection recovery.

 

I cannot answer your first question but since the director of the CDC, Geir Bukholm has multiple doctorates  in medicine and microbiology and lectures as a professor at an Norwegian University, I would trust his statement more than yours or mine. 

 

The "long covid" horror stories are also counted as covid deaths, if they end in death. So, it's not "30%" higher. But, if you read about the long term effects of the flu, I mean the real thing, not just symptoms, you will notice that "long flu" has been always been a thing.

[Neeranam]

6 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Proof of this.

 

57 minutes ago, Neeranam said:
There is good reason for Thais not wanting the Chinese one.

The AStra is made poorly in Thailand ans is dangerous. 

 

You said it. so please provide the proof of your post.

Bill, I am not understaning what you mean. 

 

There is a good reason for Thais not wanting the Chinese one, which all Thai people know about but can't be spoken about due to strict laws. Obviously, I can't prove what everyone knows. 

 

Secondly, Thailand sent the vaccine to the UK, where it was deemed a lower quality by Astra company. 

 

Use Google if you don't believe me, I have better things to do.

[Nojohndoe]

1 minute ago, MainBerry said:

 

I cannot answer your first question but since the director of the CDC, Geir Bukholm has multiple doctorates  in medicine and microbiology and lectures as a professor at an Norwegian University, I would trust his statement more than yours or mine. 

 

The "long covid" horror stories are also counted as covid deaths, if they end in death. So, it's not "30%" higher. But, if you read about the long term effects of the flu, I mean the real thing, not just symptoms, you will notice that "long flu" has been always been a thing.

It goes beyond "long covid" .

https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n853?utm_source=etoc&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=tbmj&utm_content=weekly&utm_term=20210423&int_source=trendmd&int_medium=cpc&int_campaign=usage-042019

 

[MainBerry]

3 minutes ago, Nojohndoe said:

It goes beyond "long covid" .

https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n853?utm_source=etoc&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=tbmj&utm_content=weekly&utm_term=20210423&int_source=trendmd&int_medium=cpc&int_campaign=usage-042019

 

 

"long flu"

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29487124/

 

https://www.labmate-online.com/news/chromatography/1/breaking-news/does-the-flu-have-a-lasting-effect/45569

Edited June 15, 2021 by MainBerry

[Nojohndoe]

2 minutes ago, MainBerry said:

 

"long flu"

https://www.labmate-online.com/news/chromatography/1/breaking-news/does-the-flu-have-a-lasting-effect/45569

Mice ?

[rickudon]

29 minutes ago, MainBerry said:

 

The reality led the Norwegian director of CDC to the following statement:

 

 

40 people currently die per 1 million vaccinated (reported by VAERS and Germany and Austria, statistics can be provided if you are unable to get to this figure by yourself). This means that I would agree with the Norwegian CDC director by saying that vaccines may kill more people than Covid, mainly however if you are in a certain age group. Example: Imagine if we start vaccinated children and youths.

40 per million is a much higher reported rate than other countries. It  may be the gross total of people who die after vaccination, before cause of death is attributed. For senior citizens, your daily risk of death is about 1 in 10,000 - so you would expect about 100 people a day to die  out of one million senior citizens, every day. 

 

If you accept the death rates normally given for Astra-Zeneca vaccine (say 2 per million), vaccinating the entire Norwegian population would cause about 11 deaths. Every day, about one Norwegian dies of Covid-19, you would get a better outcome in under a month if all Norwegians were vaccinated. Even at 40 per million, you would be better off in 7 months.

[Rampant Rabbit]

41 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Proof of what? 

your word ????

[MainBerry]

5 minutes ago, rickudon said:

40 per million is a much higher reported rate than other countries. It  may be the gross total of people who die after vaccination, before cause of death is attributed. For senior citizens, your daily risk of death is about 1 in 10,000 - so you would expect about 100 people a day to die  out of one million senior citizens, every day. 

 

If you accept the death rates normally given for Astra-Zeneca vaccine (say 2 per million), vaccinating the entire Norwegian population would cause about 11 deaths. Every day, about one Norwegian dies of Covid-19, you would get a better outcome in under a month if all Norwegians were vaccinated. Even at 40 per million, you would be better off in 7 months.

 

40 per 1 million is a calculation based on f. ex. the USA system VAERS. They report around 6000 deaths so far for 150 million vaccinated. 150 million / 6000 = 40 per 1 million. No doubt my opinion on this is that it is extremely under reported. 

 

Source: https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data/mortality

 

Yes, senior citizens die of and with covid. A lot. But the age group 0-50 are absolutely not (based on the statistic I posted above). What you are saying there would lead to a statistically better outcome in total numbers but in the progress people are getting killed by the vaccine which would be not dying of covid. This trade off seems to be very cruel. I am more for a scientific approach: Vaccinate the elders and the people with serious medical ilnesses, forbid the vacvinnation of the age group 0-18 and everybody else, up to them.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, MainBerry said:

40 people currently die per 1 million vaccinated (reported by VAERS and Germany and Austria, statistics can be provided if you are unable to get to this figure by yourself). This means that I would agree with the Norwegian CDC director by saying that vaccines may kill more people than Covid, mainly however if you are in a certain age group. Example: Imagine if we start vaccinated children and youths.

 

Who is this Norwegian CDC director ????  If you want to be credible don’t make stuff up !

 

 

 

[MainBerry]

Just now, richard_smith237 said:

 

Who is this Norwegian CDC director ????  If you want to be credible don’t make stuff up !

 

 

Please read entire page 5 before you get so emotional about it. I have posted multiple sources and easily verifiable statements.

 

https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geir_Bukholm

[Heng]

I'd get either Sinovac or AZ if I had to (and leaning towards AZ if it was a choice between the two just for the travel aspect).   Still in a position to wait awhile though hoping for more choices later this year.   

[richard_smith237]

17 minutes ago, MainBerry said:

 

 

Source: https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data/mortality

 

 

 

This needs addressing separately. 

 

Open VAERS - Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. 

 

Bob dies of a heart attack - Nothing reported to VAERS

Bob has a vaccine and dies of the same heart attack that was going to kill him anyway - Death reported to VAERS

 

My point here is that no one reports ‘pre-vaccine’ deaths to VAERS, but post vaccines deaths will be reported VAERS whether they are vaccine related or not.

 

As such the the graph shown is nothing more than a curve measuring the coincidental timing of some deaths meanwhile there is no basis of comparison - the presentation of data in this manner is naive and highly misleading.... 

 

.... or rather, its highly misleading for those too stupid to identify the confirmation bias such data presents. 

 

This date is simply ‘deaths after a vaccine’... the curve could be exactly the same if ‘deaths after a beer’ were to be plotted.

 

IF vaccine risk is to be truly evaluated on a mass level there needs be a far better method of analysis than this dumbed down rubbish. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[teacherofwoe]

http://vaersanalysis.byethost3.com/2021/06/04/weekly-summary-5-28-2021/?i=2

 

 

[MainBerry]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

This needs addressing separately. 

 

Open VAERS - Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. 

 

Bob dies of a heart attack - Nothing reported to VAERS

Bob has a vaccine and dies of the same heart attack that was going to kill him anyway - Death reported to VAERS

 

My point here is that no one reports ‘pre-vaccine’ deaths to VAERS, but post vaccines deaths will be reported VAERS whether they are vaccine related or not.

 

As such the the graph shown is nothing more than a curve measuring the coincidental timing of some deaths meanwhile there is no basis of comparison - the presentation of data in this manner is naive and highly misleading.... 

 

.... or rather, its highly misleading for those too stupid to identify the confirmation bias such data presents. 

 

This date is simply ‘deaths after a vaccine’... the curve could be exactly the same if ‘deaths after a beer’ were to be plotted.

 

IF vaccine risk is to be truly evaluated on a mass level there needs be a far better method of analysis than this dumbed down rubbish. 

 

 

 

It is actually doctors and doctor panels at hospital deciding to put a death on VAERS, it is not a random guy working as a cashier just thinking "oh this could be something". They follow procedures to actually identify it. Also, yes, "pre vaccine" deaths are getting reported, just not to VAERS because VAERS is a vaccine related reporting system. VAERS correlates with numbers from Germany and Austria (40 per 1 million) so, at least in this regards those countries are united.

 

To give you another example based on your examples:

Bob dies of a blood clot in brain - doctor decides to not report anything to VAERS because he reads the vaccines manual and it says "very very rare and unlikely" and "oh, its already 3 weeks ago since the patient got the vaccine".

Bob dies of a blood clot in brain - doctor checks vaccinated patient for covid antibodies and the test is positive. Patient died of covid. Nothing reported to VAERS.

 

For the other part you are correct, more deaths because more vaccinated people than the years before.

Edited June 15, 2021 by MainBerry

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, MainBerry said:

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Who is this Norwegian CDC director ????  If you want to be credible don’t make stuff up !

 

 

Please read entire page 5 before you get so emotional about it. I have posted multiple sources and easily verifiable statements.

 

https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geir_Bukholm

 

So he’s not the director of the CDC....  he’s a Norwegian public health official. 

 

Bukkholm's point is that he believes that the vaccines present greater risk than Covid-19.

 

This is based on Norways stats that there were no excess deaths, ergo no Covid-19 related deaths in Norway.

 

Meanwhile there were 580,000 excess deaths in Europe in 2020 (compared to the Av 2015-2019).

 

The suggestion that the vaccine is more dangerous than Covid-19 is extremely irresponsible. 

 

 

[Salerno]

4 minutes ago, MainBerry said:

It is actually doctors and doctor panels at hospital deciding to put a death on VAERS, it is not a random guy working as a cashier just thinking "oh this could be something".

 

"Anyone can submit a report to VAERS — healthcare professionals, vaccine manufacturers, and the general public. VAERS welcomes all reports, regardless of seriousness, and regardless of how likely the vaccine may have been to have caused the adverse event."

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/vaers/index.html

[MainBerry]

2 minutes ago, Salerno said:

 

"Anyone can submit a report to VAERS — healthcare professionals, vaccine manufacturers, and the general public. VAERS welcomes all reports, regardless of seriousness, and regardless of how likely the vaccine may have been to have caused the adverse event."

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/vaers/index.html

 

I didnt know that. Well, the statistics for Germany and Austria show the same 40 deaths for 1 million, so they seem to be united in this aspect.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, MainBerry said:

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

So he’s not the director of the CDC....  he’s a Norwegian public health official. 

 

Bukkholm's point is that he believes that the vaccines present greater risk than Covid-19.

 

This is based on Norways stats that there were no excess deaths, ergo no Covid-19 related deaths in Norway.

 

Meanwhile there were 580,000 excess deaths in Europe in 2020 (compared to the Av 2015-2019).

 

The suggestion that the vaccine is more dangerous than Covid-19 is extremely irresponsible. 

 

 

Expand  

 

Excuse me, I do not want to lecture you on something but I really appreciate it, if you were able to research a bit for yourself if you want to be credible.

 

"Geir Bukholm, Director of the Division of Infection Control and Environmental Health at the Norwegian Institute of Public Health. "

'

Source:

https://www.fhi.no/en/news/2021/astrazeneca-vaccine-removed-from-coronavirus-immunisation-programme-in-norw/

 

Here again the statistic I posted before (from Germany, released June 2021):

 

To vaccinate people in the age group 0-40 is very irresponsible, borderline criminal.

 

The Director of the CDC is Rochelle Walensky.

 

The gentleman you are referring to is the director of one of the departments a the Norwegian Institute of Public Health official. 

 

He is stating that vaccinations are more dangerous than Covid-19. 

 

And you can post more links... and I can post more links of opinions of other experts which contradict him. 

 

Vaccines are important for ALL not to protect the individual, but to slow down the SARS-CoV-2 virus to limit the risk or speed of antigenic drift into something virologists are unable to keep up with of vaccinate against. 

 

 

Public health officials are correct - Covid-19 presents less risk for healthy people under 50, for now at least. 

 

 

The argument is that when all those at risk are vaccinated we can ‘get on with our lives’, we can live alongside Covid-19 as we live alongside influenza and the common cold viruses. 

 

What these arguments fail to recognise is the rate of antigenic drift presented by the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

 

IF SARS-CoV-2 is allowed to be transmitted because people are either not at risk or are vaccine protected, then those who have not been vaccinated permit the continued spread of SARS-CoV-2 such that the virus can mutate into other variants at a rate virologists cannot keep up with, thus placing those in ‘vulnerable groups’ back at risk

 

Also overlooked by these ‘experts’ is the potential for the virus to evolve into something that does impact those in <50 age bracket who are healthy. 

 

Vaccines are not just about protecting those at risk. The are about slowing down the virus. 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

15 minutes ago, Salerno said:

19 minutes ago, MainBerry said:

It is actually doctors and doctor panels at hospital deciding to put a death on VAERS, it is not a random guy working as a cashier just thinking "oh this could be something".

 

"Anyone can submit a report to VAERS — healthcare professionals, vaccine manufacturers, and the general public. VAERS welcomes all reports, regardless of seriousness, and regardless of how likely the vaccine may have been to have caused the adverse event."

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/vaers/index.html

 

 

11 minutes ago, MainBerry said:

I didnt know that. Well, the statistics for Germany and Austria show the same 40 deaths for 1 million, so they seem to be united in this aspect.

 

 

36 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Who is this Norwegian CDC director ????  If you want to be credible don’t make stuff up !

 

 

As I wrote... 

[MainBerry]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

The Director of the CDC is Rochelle Walensky.

 

The gentleman you are referring to is the director of one of the departments a the Norwegian Institute of Public Health official. 

 

He is stating that vaccinations are more dangerous than Covid-19. 

 

And you can post more links... and I can post more links of opinions of other experts which contradict him. 

 

Vaccines are important for ALL not to protect the individual, but to slow down the SARS-CoV-2 virus to limit the risk or speed of antigenic drift into something virologists are unable to keep up with of vaccinate against. 

 

 

Public health officials are correct - Covid-19 presents less risk for healthy people under 50, for now at least. 

 

 

The argument is that when all those at risk are vaccinated we can ‘get on with our lives’, we can live alongside Covid-19 as we live alongside influenza and the common cold viruses. 

 

What these arguments fail to recognise is the rate of antigenic drift presented by the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

 

IF SARS-CoV-2 is allowed to be transmitted because people are either not at risk or are vaccine protected, then those who have not been vaccinated permit the continued spread of SARS-CoV-2 such that the virus can mutate into other variants at a rate virologists cannot keep up with, thus placing those in ‘vulnerable groups’ back at risk

 

Also overlooked by these ‘experts’ is the potential for the virus to evolve into something that does impact those in <50 age bracket who are healthy. 

 

Vaccines are not just about protecting those at risk. The are about slowing down the virus. 

 

 

The Norwegian CDC, the Division of Infection Control and Environmental Health director is Geir Bukholm. I don't know why an American should be the director in Norway Huh, what is going on? Are you making now stuff up on the go? Please stop it.

 

Regardless how many times "long covid" is portrayed, it will still count as covid death if death occurs. Also, we certainly know that "long flu" is a thing. What we certailnly don't know yet, is "long vaccine" and it's outcomes.\

 

The argument is, that "we are all in this together" but it is very emotional and not scientific. Also, I would be interested in proofs that with the vaccine you don't get covid anymore. Current census says the opposite, and vaccinated people are still able to spread the virus.

[MainBerry]

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

 

 

 

As I wrote... 

 

Yeah, I acknowledge that I didn't know how the reporting of VAERS functions as I thought it's the same as in Germany and Austria where doctors and panels decide the reporting and the numbers correlate with VEAERS but you make claims about that an American being a director in Norway, that everybody should be vaccinated regardless the statitstics and that the vaccine stops the spread. Claims over claims and no proofs at all.