Simple, Effective, Cheap pool water level regulator

[RocketDog]

After doing a lot of research on why the pool needed water every few days, and posting questions on this forum, I determined that any pool can lose as much as an inch or more in level daily, depending on the time of year.

 

Naturally filling with a hose is a pain to watch. I used a hose connected to the community water supply, which has very low pressure. It only has enough pressure to fill my house pressure system tank, about 2.5m.

 

So I started looking for a way to automate the process. Naturally there are a host of fancy electronic systems, as well as some mechanical float valve systems such as from Emaux, that are just to complicated. I realized I could always use a typical ballcock toilet valve system, but that would look ugly.

 

Long story short I found two units on Lazada that were cheap, small, and effective. One of them has a blue plastic body but it was not constructed well and stuck closed several times over the test period. I have since installed the other unit in two places, the pool and the Koi pond. Both have been in operation for several months with no issues at all.

 

These units have stand NPT 1/2" male fittings on the inlet an outlet but have 3/4" units available as well. There are also two different inlet/outlet orientations available that I don't show. I took one apart to see how they work and was impressed with the clever concept and minimum design. Noe that they do have a minimum inlet pressure limit to ensure that the valve opens when it should. I don't know my local pressure, but it very low, as stated above. I suspect this will work for nearly any supply you have. There is no need for anywhere near the water pressure one wants for the kitchen or shower.

 

Here are links to Lazada for four possible units. As near as I can tell they are all the same manufacturer, and they look identical to the one I bought.

I found a similar unit in Global House made by Vavo, which I don't advise buying. I even threw several Vavo ball valves away when I found that they leak around the stem. I met a guy in Global House at checkout the was buying some SCG valves and he corroborated that Vavo also leak under vacuum.  Sorry, I just had to put in a bad word for Vavo since I'm the type that holds grudges.

 

The On/Off trip point is ~1/8" above the very bottom on the unit, and has very little hysteresis. It doesn't 'feather' the outlet flow as  it nears the turn off point as standard ballcock valves do. It's very nearly a full on or full off state thing, and flow rate is good. I've noticed that the valve with turn on and off abruptly when people are swimming and causing waves. That's good because it verifies that the unit is functional. My pool has an spa with a separating wall from the main pools that overflows into the pool when the filter system is running because it slightly lowers the main pool level to overflow the spa wall; the valve opens in this case too. It never overfills that I've seen.

They are all around 100thb.

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/qualitytools-i2224802401-s7448282712.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.3.1f647ddd1A9z3q&search=1

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/12-4-juny-90-i897506643-s1810324793.html?spm=a2o4m.pdp_revamp.recommend_2.3.f80f7d82IWgYzL&mp=1&cid=170551&mp=1&impsrc=897506643_TH-1810324793&ad_src=4700_3001:557900&cpc=100&originalCpc=100&pos=2&highest_price=100&pa=sponsored_bottom&did=b2af804f-d1c6-4b23-ae5c-aca6bc34e762&abid=8460342,12319190,10909598,11989614,12091908,12189920,12192856,12214068,12300048,215966,211710&adFlag=3&adid=13663143&bucketId=0&sellerId=1000366925&itemId=897506643&member_id=153291198&ncid=101100002186235&adgroup_id=262204246&creative_id=0&brand_id=196518&category_id=12051&regional_key=260107000000&pdp_item=2073436885&pid_pvid=85d239d3242fa6fec2af81016186b0da&nick=&pvid=b2af804f-d1c6-4b23-ae5c-aca6bc34e762&pvtime=1615274389&ad_src=4700_3001:557900&crowd_id=&one_id=714172386275633725

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/floating-ball-valve-automatic-water-level-control-valve-installed-inside-the-float-valve-for-water-tank-r12-34-1-i2073436885-s6776654021.html?

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/i247611858-s381189847.html?spm=a2o4m.my_wishlist.price_observing.234.6498610869Jl4N

 

I've attached a video to demonstrate the operation and installation.

I've been operating just attached to a hose for the test, but plan to cut a kerf in the pool apron and lay the pipe in that flush with the apron. Then I'll connect it to the water supply through a filter.

 

Comments and questions are welcome.

[Bagwain]

Good advice.

 

I notice the pool needs a regrout!????

[MickTurator]

I use the same thing in my toilet cisterns.

The old original ones used to stop working after 6 months and are 4x the price.

The cheap Lazada ones are still working well after two years.

[Outbackoz]

Novel piece of innovation! I used a similar valve in my poly water tank to eliminate wall flexing around the inlet pipe. Also in Hua Hin but but town water pressure here varies from 20-70 psi. 

[RocketDog]

6 hours ago, Bagwain said:

Good advice.

 

I notice the pool needs a regrout!????

True, I'm putting it off as long as possible. Don't want to drain the pool as long as it's so hot!

Never did it before so need to do some research too.

[Chaichara]

Good to know. Thanks for this handy tip for the readers here who don't have overflow pools with a surge tank. The Emaux automatic top up is not excessively expensive, but it is designed for being built-in during the construction of a new, skimmer type pool or spa.

 

Just a caveat however, when buying anything from Lazada - there is very little genuine product or customer support, especially in English, or for pool products which can still be purchased online at better prices, better quality, better service and better T&C direct from almost any truly genuine pool dealer.

 

Getting a refund for wrong and/or damaged deliveries from Lazada can be a real headache, especially if getting a refund for an inexpensive article means trekking 40Km to your nearest Kerry.

[Chaichara]

4 hours ago, RocketDog said:

 ...need to do some research too.

It's worth investigating and investing  in  proper grout  for pools. It's expensive and many  so  called pool companies cut  corners and skimp on  it -  plus a lot  of them don't  know how to  do  it  properly.

I believe there are only  two brands of pool  grout  available here, Crocodile Platinum and WeberColor. They  are aavailable at GlobalHouse and probably  also  at Thai Watsadu and DoHome.

 

My pool  builder use the Crocodile stuff  16 years ago, and the grout  still looks like new.

[Bagwain]

16 hours ago, RocketDog said:

True, I'm putting it off as long as possible. Don't want to drain the pool as long as it's so hot!

Never did it before so need to do some research too.

The problem you have with leaving it longer is that the water can get behing the tiles.

My company has renovated & regrouted dozens of pools.

We drum test the tiles and typically a lot have to be taken off and re-glued if not replaced.

Pool water is very harsh! This pool in the picture needed well over 200 tiles re-doing!

 

 always

[RocketDog]

13 hours ago, Chaichara said:

It's worth investigating and investing  in  proper grout  for pools. It's expensive and many  so  called pool companies cut  corners and skimp on  it -  plus a lot  of them don't  know how to  do  it  properly.

I believe there are only  two brands of pool  grout  available here, Crocodile Platinum and WeberColor. They  are aavailable at GlobalHouse and probably  also  at Thai Watsadu and DoHome.

 

 

Agreed. I use Crocodile grout even for the floor tiles. I buy it a Global House and several colors are available. Good tip.

My DIY neighbor maintains his own pool and has regrouted it. I trust his judgment also. Thanks.

[Saanim]

On 6/25/2021 at 9:31 AM, Bagwain said:

Good advice.

 

I notice the pool needs a regrout!????

That's from the "good" advice to lower the pH close to 7 (from the ones who like to sell regularly the pH Minus and to do the regrout).   The acidic water likes to eat the grout and the tiles as well...

[RocketDog]

5 hours ago, Bagwain said:

The problem you have with leaving it longer is that the water can get behing the tiles.

My company has renovated & regrouted dozens of pools.

We drum test the tiles and typically a lot have to be taken off and re-glued if not replaced.

Pool water is very harsh! This pool in the picture needed well over 200 tiles re-doing!

 

 always

Thanks for the tip. I better think about doing it.

I do wonder how to drain the thousands of gallons of water from the pool. There are pineapple fields, not mine, all around me and the pool is saltwater. I can't imagine they would appreciate me salting their fields. There are no street drains or sewer systems where I live.

 

Any ideas?

 

What is general cost of re-grouting a medium size pool?

 

thanks

 

[RocketDog]

25 minutes ago, Saanim said:

That's from the "good" advice to lower the pH close to 7 (from the ones who like to sell regularly the pH Minus and to do the regrout).   The acidic water likes to eat the grout and the tiles as well...

We have high calcium water here and I've been told that  the pH should be a bit above 7 to stop calcium depositions on the salt cell and pipes.

 

Any ideas on proper pH for saltwater pools.?

 

thanks

[Bagwain]

1 hour ago, RocketDog said:

We have high calcium water here and I've been told that  the pH should be a bit above 7 to stop calcium depositions on the salt cell and pipes.

 

Any ideas on proper pH for saltwater pools.?

 

thanks

I apreciate you concern on the environment! Well done!

Let the pool sit for a few days without the chlorinator working. The sun/UV will delete the chlorine.

Test your pool for salt (T.D.S) levels. Total dissolved solids!

If it is below 3000 ppm and it is going into one area when draining you won't have an issue!

 

State & size of the pool is a factor in pricing a regrout!

Where are you located? You can PM me if you choose!

 

Cheers

[Bagwain]

By the way calcium is another issue on its own.

Depends on heaps of factors!

Dealing with it for over 30 yrs..

No easy solution unless you have deep pockets! 

[Bagwain]

1 hour ago, Saanim said:

That's from the "good" advice to lower the pH close to 7 (from the ones who like to sell regularly the pH Minus and to do the regrout).   The acidic water likes to eat the grout and the tiles as well...

So you think high pH is better?

Do you have any experience in swimming pools other that your own back yard ?

Do you know about black spot?

What pH are your going to recommend Einstein! 

  

[RocketDog]

33 minutes ago, Bagwain said:

I apreciate you concern on the environment! Well done!

Let the pool sit for a few days without the chlorinator working. The sun/UV will delete the chlorine.

Test your pool for salt (T.D.S) levels. Total dissolved solids!

If it is below 3000 ppm and it is going into one area when draining you won't have an issue!

 

State & size of the pool is a factor in pricing a regrout!

Where are you located? You can PM me if you choose!

 

Cheers

I'm not concerned about the chlorine, but admittedly didn't think about that. I get your point.

The Roman soldiers would salt the fields of conquered enemy so that they couldn't grow crops for decades. Salt of nearly any metal, such as sodium chloride, will poison the soil. No easy way to remove the salt that I know of short of evaporation and removal to a dump (i.e. beside any convenient road). Except for a short stretch of dirt road immediately in front of my house my property is quite literally surrounded with pineapple under cultivation.

 

I've asked people with ion exchange water softeners what they do with the backwash salt water. They of course don't know or care. Dumping it in a septic tank will kill any except the most extremophile bacteria. Same issue as far as I'm concerned.

If we've learned anything since the 1970's it's that environmental issues don't disappear by ignoring them. So the question is back to you. How do you dispose of several thousand gallons of saltwater?

 

That said, I guess it's unlikely that my pool or water softener would ever be linked to salt dumping that kills a large swath of the pineapple fields around my house. They would just continue replanting the same area for years to come expecting different results each time.

 

Clearly Thailand has no way to dispose of toxic materials except for old rubber tires. These can simply be burned beside the road or thrown on the fire they start for entertainment in the conveniently located roadside dump nearest to them.

 

Sorry. I'm having a bad day.

 

Sometimes the rampant stupidity and environmental ignorance in this country overwhelms me. I've given up trying to fix the stupidity but I don't want to add my own to it. ????

 

[Bagwain]

The amount your are talking about is minimal.

Where your backwash water is going would be where the residual salt would stay after the water soaks away & evaporates!

It certainly wouldn't effect a wide range of area!

You could dig a trench to make it stay in one area!

 

[Saanim]

On 6/26/2021 at 3:50 PM, Bagwain said:

So you think high pH is better?

Do you have any experience in swimming pools other that your own back yard ?

Do you know about black spot?

What pH are your going to recommend Einstein! 

  

Actually, my experience is only in my backyard where I made my own swimming pool 15 years ago. And I have been still swimming in that every day,  not bothering to measure the pH. Only sometimes just for my curiosity, it's always nearing to 8 and the water is clear with my quite simple filtering system.

 

I do not know what pH der ol' good Einstein recommends, I too do not recommend any, just being not in a favor to lower it frequently.  After my initial cautious care years ago for the pH, being concerned from the reading of many pool forums  - most of the forums are owned and run by the pool shops - I have found that whether the pH is 7 or 8 it does not have any influence on the water clarity. It has influence only on the efficiency of chlorination in case the protection against algae is provided by chlorine only. In that case the chlorination needs to be really very strong, and so exact the daily pH (7.3?). And of course, the pH regulation hasa strong influence on your money.

 

That's not my case, having some other (and cheaper) means against algae, so the slight chlorination provides just a protection against gems only. And admitted, it also helps somehow to the clarity.   

 

As of the pH effect on the body, that's another story. As per some medical studies we always need rather to rise the alkalinity for ourselves, being surrounded with acidic environment. Not only from acidic rains but also from our body system producing an acid for dispose of our food. And this acid is affecting also our blood system that needs a very exact control of its pH 7.35-7.40.  Once we eat more meat the acid production will be increased, coming also into the blood, hence the blood system has a lot of to do keeping the narrow margin of pH.

 

Therefore, with our help we can make it for the blood much easier what will be appreciated by our organism. The momentary situation of our body pH can be easily seen by checking our urine by some simple means (pH paper). Then we can see how much it varies - and the correlation to the food we have been eating.  So, after an abundant pork feast we can lift the pH again by edible (baking) soda next morning.

 

Whether a high pH is harmful for our body or not? Don't we know that the bambinos drink the breast milk of pH 8 - 8.5, the water in see and in all Spa is over 8?

 

But I do not sell the edible soda...  

 

 

   

 

 

[Bagwain]

2 hours ago, Saanim said:

Actually, my experience is only in my backyard where I made my own swimming pool 15 years ago. And I have been still swimming in that every day,  not bothering to measure the pH. Only sometimes just for my curiosity, it's always nearing to 8 and the water is clear with my quite simple filtering system.

 

I do not know what pH der ol' good Einstein recommends, I too do not recommend any, just being not in a favor to lower it frequently.  After my initial cautious care years ago for the pH, being concerned from the reading of many pool forums  - most of the forums are owned and run by the pool shops - I have found that whether the pH is 7 or 8 it does not have any influence on the water clarity. It has influence only on the efficiency of chlorination in case the protection against algae is provided by chlorine only. In that case the chlorination needs to be really very strong, and so exact the daily pH (7.3?). And of course, the pH regulation hasa strong influence on your money.

 

That's not my case, having some other (and cheaper) means against algae, so the slight chlorination provides just a protection against gems only. And admitted, it also helps somehow to the clarity.   

 

As of the pH effect on the body, that's another story. As per some medical studies we always need rather to rise the alkalinity for ourselves, being surrounded with acidic environment. Not only from acidic rains but also from our body system producing an acid for dispose of our food. And this acid is affecting also our blood system that needs a very exact control of its pH 7.35-7.40.  Once we eat more meat the acid production will be increased, coming also into the blood, hence the blood system has a lot of to do keeping the narrow margin of pH.

 

Therefore, with our help we can make it for the blood much easier what will be appreciated by our organism. The momentary situation of our body pH can be easily seen by checking our urine by some simple means (pH paper). Then we can see how much it varies - and the correlation to the food we have been eating.  So, after an abundant pork feast we can lift the pH again by edible (baking) soda next morning.

 

Whether a high pH is harmful for our body or not? Don't we know that the bambinos drink the breast milk of pH 8 - 8.5, the water in see and in all Spa is over 8?

 

But I do not sell the edible soda...  

 

 

   

 

 

What an incredible rant of B/S! 

 

[alacrity]

On 6/26/2021 at 1:51 PM, Saanim said:

That's from the "good" advice to lower the pH close to 7 (from the ones who like to sell regularly the pH Minus and to do the regrout).   The acidic water likes to eat the grout and the tiles as well...

If a salt water chlorinator is used, then 'mid sevens' is an appropriate value. Mine states  the recommended level to be 7.2, for best performance. I maintain pH at 7.4 - 7.6.

 

I forget what the actual value of 'neutral pH' is. But, remember there's some tabulation for that. 

[Bagwain]

23 hours ago, alacrity said:

If a salt water chlorinator is used, then 'mid sevens' is an appropriate value. Mine states  the recommended level to be 7.2, for best performance. I maintain pH at 7.4 - 7.6.

 

I forget what the actual value of 'neutral pH' is. But, remember there's some tabulation for that. 

Neutral is 7

It is best in a tropical environment to keep the pH at around 7.2 in a salt chlorinated pool and you salt levels at 4,000 ppm!

7.2 in not acidic. It is wise not to listen to back yard experts! 

7.6 and above and you risk "Black spot" biggest headache you will have with your grout.

It is a flower and when you scrub it, you leave the roots in the grout and spread it around the pool.

 

I was called back to Ramayana to sort this isssue out. It is a nightmare if it gets hold.

 

Happy swimming!

 

[Saanim]

On 7/1/2021 at 7:26 PM, Bagwain said:

Neutral is 7

It is best in a tropical environment to keep the pH at around 7.2 in a salt chlorinated pool and you salt levels at 4,000 ppm!

7.2 in not acidic. It is wise not to listen to back yard experts! 

7.6 and above and you risk "Black spot" biggest headache you will have with your grout.

 

 

Quote

 

In my backyard I have the ph=7.6 and higher (actually, I do not bother with the measuring) the whole year long, no "Black spots" and no "headache" about pH Minus... 

(but I am not selling - nor offering -  anything for swimming pools...

[Bagwain]

19 hours ago, Saanim said:

 

In my backyard I have the ph=7.6 and higher (actually, I do not bother with the measuring) the whole year long, no "Black spots" and no "headache" about pH Minus... 

(but I am not selling - nor offering -  anything for swimming pools...

Well aren't you lucky!

I have troubleshooted many hundreds of commercial, resort & hotel pools in 3 countries. 

Blackspot is one of the main issues. 

Yes I am selling something. My long & extensive experience. Which didn't come from my backyard pool!

[Chaichara]

3 hours ago, Bagwain said:

I have troubleshooted many hundreds of commercial, resort & hotel pools in 3 countries. 

 

Well done! So have I : Germany, France, Netherlands, Switzerland. First pool built in Celle in 1975. And I still stay very much up to date with developments. You're right though, once it sets in, Black Algae is extremely hard to get rid of. Most people here in Thailand leave it too late. They think it's sugar cane ash settling on the grout, and they wonder why it won't come off. Most expats are reluctant to invest ฿1,900 in a bottle of algicide, but  the cost of regrouting and/or retiling is a bit more than that....

[daveAustin]

On 7/3/2021 at 7:28 AM, Saanim said:

 

In my backyard I have the ph=7.6 and higher (actually, I do not bother with the measuring) the whole year long, no "Black spots" and no "headache" about pH Minus... 

(but I am not selling - nor offering -  anything for swimming pools...

Those not bothered about the balance of their water go into my ‘shouldn’t have a pool’ bracket. ????Sanitizer not burning efficiently and itchy skin aside, high pH is scale-forming and will eventually ruin your setup. 7.6 on the line but 8 and up is asking for it but up to you bro, mai pen rai etc. 
 

Op, you obviously backwash so just vac to waste daily and also allow to evaporate. Or pay bloke with tanker to take it to the ocean. Me, I’d fire it down the road when it rains ????. Not talking vast amounts of salt. 

[Saanim]

7 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Those not bothered about the balance of their water go into my ‘shouldn’t have a pool’ bracket. ????Sanitizer not burning efficiently and itchy skin aside, high pH is scale-forming and will eventually ruin your setup. 7.6 on the line but 8 and up is asking for it but up to you bro, mai pen rai etc. 
 

Op, you obviously backwash so just vac to waste daily and also allow to evaporate. Or pay bloke with tanker to take it to the ocean. Me, I’d fire it down the road when it rains ????. Not talking vast amounts of salt. 

Seems that you know better than me what's happening in my pool. I prefer to swim in rather a natural water than in a chemical slush. Wondering how the fish can survive in clean rivers without pH maintaining?  And the people swimming there either? The mountain rivers and creeks have pH over 8. 

 

As I said the pH value has nothing to do with water clarity, nor it is harmful for body, it's just for efficiency of chlorine if the chlorine is the only means for fighting algae. But for that there are other means, much more efficient and very cheap. How harmful is swimming in sea water with pH over 8, or in spa?

 

And even if the algae is not 100% removed, they are not harmful, unlike the overdone chemicals in the swimming water.  Better not to google "swimming pool water, cancer".   

 

BTW,  the pH limit for drinking water is 6.5 - 9.5...    

[Bagwain]

4 hours ago, Saanim said:

Seems that you know better than me what's happening in my pool. I prefer to swim in rather a natural water than in a chemical slush. Wondering how the fish can survive in clean rivers without pH maintaining?  And the people swimming there either? The mountain rivers and creeks have pH over 8. 

 

As I said the pH value has nothing to do with water clarity, nor it is harmful for body, it's just for efficiency of chlorine if the chlorine is the only means for fighting algae. But for that there are other means, much more efficient and very cheap. How harmful is swimming in sea water with pH over 8, or in spa?

 

And even if the algae is not 100% removed, they are not harmful, unlike the overdone chemicals in the swimming water.  Better not to google "swimming pool water, cancer".   

 

BTW,  the pH limit for drinking water is 6.5 - 9.5...    

As usual incoherent Gobeldy Gook! Stick to you back yard pool as that is the only reference you talk about! pH can have great effects on water clarity. Why do people have to keep the pH in balance in their aquariums? I am with "daveaustin" on this. You are in the "Shouldn't own a pool and especially give advice" bracket! ????????????

[Saanim]

13 minutes ago, Bagwain said:

As usual incoherent Gobeldy Gook! Stick to you back yard pool as that is the only reference you talk about! pH can have great effects on water clarity. Why do people have to keep the pH in balance in their aquariums? I am with "daveaustin" on this. You are in the "Shouldn't own a pool and especially give advice" bracket! ????????????

I did not know that people are not allowed to own a pool if not in accordance with your kind advice and with your help with the construction...