Company court case

[kralledr]

What you guys think who win/lose in this case

 

Short story

 

I did open a small store, and had someone to invest 60k bath, we had to close 4 months after because of covid (it was just weeks before the pandemic) i lost much more than the guy who (invested) 60k  no contracts where made or any agreements he had sent money to my bank, he sued me now in court and ask 60k back plus 100k bath for???

 

What is the mostly outcome?

[ukrules]

Did he give you the money in cash or bank transfer?

 

What I'm getting at is : Can he prove to a court via hard evidence that he lent you some money?

[kralledr]

3 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Did he give you the money in cash or bank transfer?

 

What I'm getting at is : Can he prove to a court via hard evidence that he lent you some money?

Hw gave it by bank  well he paid to my bank 20k, 40k to the bank of the building owner, he lost 60k, while i lost over 400k.

 

Wr did no contract or other papers..

 

And court date is next month

Edited June 27, 2021 by kralledr

[bwpage3]

Seems odd if you have 400K of your own to lose, you would take another 60K baht from someone else?

 

It appears there is evidence he did in fact loan you money.

 

This is one for the court to sort out and I am afraid you will probably lose.

[ukrules]

3 hours ago, kralledr said:

Wr did no contract or other papers..

 

And court date is next month

 

So he can claim with proof that he sent you two payments, nothing more.

 

There are no grounds for any additional compensation without a written agreement and a judge will almost certainly deny it.

 

I know of a case where someone took someone else to court very recently for some actual rent debt along with a request for the entire term of the contract to be paid. The current debt was ordered to be paid, anything on top of that was rejected.

 

Also the judge ordered that it be repaid in monthly installments over a period of about a year. Those who initiated the action ended up with nothing but legal fees and a low monthly payment for money they were going to get anyway had they not chose the legal route.

 

This case involved a 5 year contract which had been broken by both parties.

 

In your case there's no contract at all, at best the guy can claim he lent you some money and you should repay it with interest.

 

I suspect the judge won't be happy once you explain what actually happened. This sounds like an attempt to extort you more than anything else.

 

Is it a foreigner or a Thai who's initiated the court action?

[impulse]

3 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

Seems odd if you have 400K of your own to lose, you would take another 60K baht from someone else?

 

It appears there is evidence he did in fact loan you money.

 

This is one for the court to sort out and I am afraid you will probably lose.

 

Not odd at all if your business need 51% Thai ownership.

 

[kralledr]

7 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

So he can claim with proof that he sent you two payments, nothing more.

 

There are no grounds for any additional compensation without a written agreement and a judge will almost certainly deny it.

 

I know of a case where someone took someone else to court very recently for some actual rent debt along with a request for the entire term of the contract to be paid. The current debt was ordered to be paid, anything on top of that was rejected.

 

Also the judge ordered that it be repaid in monthly installments over a period of about a year. Those who initiated the action ended up with nothing but legal fees and a low monthly payment for money they were going to get anyway had they not chose the legal route.

 

This case involved a 5 year contract which had been broken by both parties.

 

In your case there's no contract at all, at best the guy can claim he lent you some money and you should repay it with interest.

 

I suspect the judge won't be happy once you explain what actually happened. This sounds like an attempt to extort you more than anything else.

 

Is it a foreigner or a Thai who's initiated the court action?

It was a foreigner,and as i said i got only 20k to MY bank from him, the other 40k he did send to the shop owner for the rent, as i said i paid fsr more than him and lost much more.

 

And he ask as well 100k compensation

[Horatio Poke]

If he knows people you lose.  In all other cases the lawyers make a fortune.

[kralledr]

1 hour ago, Horatio Poke said:

If he knows people you lose.  In all other cases the lawyers make a fortune.

He know who, the judge?

 

I really doubt it, and as for the laywers, lucky for me, one of our big costumers is a laywer company, he agreed to help us at no cost, he said as well all evidence he got is the 30k, because the rental contact he paid 70k said the deposit is LOST if we finish before 12 months..

 

But i wonder if i would win the case, can the judge, judge him to pay my laywer?!

[ukrules]

6 hours ago, kralledr said:

the other 40k he did send to the shop owner for the rent, as i said i paid fsr more than him and lost much more.

 

You side of the argument seems to get better, he's only paid you 20,000 Baht directly.

 

The payment of 40,000 to the landlord if he submits it as 'evidence' kind of proves that you were business partners and it wasn't some sort of loan to you - his argument, whatever it is just got a lot weaker.

 

I think this guy is just trying it on, he will likely end up with nothing but legal bills. It's hard to imagine exactly what his reasoning is here.

 

When you take someone to court you need a specific complaint demonstrating that someone has 'done a wrong' that needs correcting by the intervention of a judge. I can't see any evidence of a wrongful act and all that really matters will be the evidence, of which there is none.

 

He was an idiot for trusting you without a contract, especially if he wanted to build in compensation clauses.

 

Your agreement is worth the paper it's written on.

[GrandPapillon]

the case will be made on the merit of your "oral" agreement,

 

if it comes to "she said, he said", you need to make your story super clear and super simple for the judge

 

he will see the merit of your deal, and reject the other party claims. If you didn't make any promise to pay back and if it was indeed a joint venture between 2 parties, and the risks were known, the other party will have no basis for a claim.

 

The other party still could appeal after the verdict.

Edited June 28, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[GrandPapillon]

16 minutes ago, ukrules said:

He was an idiot for trusting you without a contract, especially if he wanted to build in compensation clauses.

 

Your agreement is worth the paper it's written on.

not necessarily, "oral" agreements are far more powerful than "written" ones in a court. I know that sounds crazy, but written agreements complexity might "impede" the "spirit and intentions" of the said "oral" agreement.

 

If you have an "oral" agreement and the paper agreement contradict the intend of that "oral" agreement, then the "oral" agreement wins in court.

 

Happened to me and I lost despite my "written" agreement ????

Edited June 28, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[inThailand]

Judge should rule on what can be proven, ie what's in writing. Since lying is the norm here, verbal agreements don't carry much wait. But this LOS. 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by inThailand

[1FinickyOne]

On 6/28/2021 at 7:45 AM, kralledr said:

i paid fsr more than him and lost much more.

You probably have a case on the other merits, but what you lost is not really relevant... unless he is accusing you of a scam, then maybe... 

 

I'm not quite sure what his side of the story might be?? 

[thailand49]

It is really a he said she said but from the posting I think you know what exactly what happened from your posting and answer if you were up front from the beginning put it on paper that would prevent this happening right now. What is worse your so call friend is going to Thai court over 60,000 Bath???? good friend but not a lot of marbles upstairs money better spent paying someone to put some sense into you. 

Close four months later before the pandemic hit!  Be honest!????

[Scott Tracy]

I suggest it will be judged on the evidence provided. Emails, text messages, bank transfer records with messages attached, etc.

 

As the plaintiff is required to prove the breach of any contract, I also suggest he has enough, in his mind, and possibly his lawyers mind, evidence substantiating the existence of an  agreement. If he's prepared to go to court, he has to think he has enough to win.

 

Mind you. No one should presume they know the thoughts and workings of a Judge.

[BestB]

Highly unlikely he will win , unless he will prove this was a personal loan not business investment .

 

if a personal loan , then he should be able to provide evidence of the conditions of the loan . If it was business investment , not all investments pay , in this case you could not predict Covid and as such did not fraud or misuse the money but simply bad investment 

[BestB]

6 minutes ago, Scott Tracy said:

I suggest it will be judged on the evidence provided. Emails, text messages, bank transfer records with messages attached, etc.

 

As the plaintiff is required to prove the breach of any contract, I also suggest he has enough, in his mind, and possibly his lawyers mind, evidence substantiating the existence of an  agreement. If he's prepared to go to court, he has to think he has enough to win.

 

Mind you. No one should presume they know the thoughts and workings of a Judge.

Not all people think logically , some just do it out of principle. 
 

lawyer makes money either way. 
 

there is another possibility , not a nice one but lawyer knows the judge or other lawyer and made a deal behind OP back 

[Artben]

No paperwork it's his word against yours and the burden of proof is his.  You win if you keep your mouth shut.

[wombat]

as I'm told all the courts are closed for civil cases due to covid my guess is a lawyer is having a nice payday from both of you

Edited June 29, 2021 by wombat

[The Theory]

I found Thai law pretty much similar to western countries regarding business and lost businesses, but still depends on the judge (I know someone who went to court for the same case) but the difference was she he'd already filed "bankruptcy" and approved with court (just like western countries). She did not pay a single Baht back to investors or cards. 
Can you file a bankruptcy ? ???? I guess not. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by The Theory

[holy cow cm]

On 6/27/2021 at 7:25 PM, kralledr said:

I did open a small store,

??? Or a bar?

[Tropposurfer]

Save yourself grief in the frustrating and quirky Thai (some say biased) legal system and give the guy 45K on the proviso he signs (in the presence of signing witnesses) a legal doc drawn up by your lawyer saying he will take no further action, against you or any entity you hold shares in or control of, that he accepts this amount as the full and final payment of return of the 40K invested in your joint business venture by him, with fair, generous and agreed upon interest.  

[Nanaplaza666]

23 hours ago, kralledr said:

He know who, the judge?

 

I really doubt it, and as for the laywers, lucky for me, one of our big costumers is a laywer company, he agreed to help us at no cost, he said as well all evidence he got is the 30k, because the rental contact he paid 70k said the deposit is LOST if we finish before 12 months..

 

But i wonder if i would win the case, can the judge, judge him to pay my laywer?!

Sorry i'm lost , first you talk of 20k to you 40k to renter , now you talk about 30k and 70k ?? Maybe it's still a bit to early for me . 

[Thomas J]

Well based purely on your statements the person should not be entitled to anything.  Without a contract saying it was a loan, you could just as much claim that he was a friend and giving you a gift. 

The fact he paid the landlord directly is pretty convincing evidence that he was making an investment in the business not making a loan to you. 

[LukKrueng]

On 6/28/2021 at 12:06 AM, ukrules said:

 

I suspect the judge won't be happy once you explain what actually happened. This sounds like an attempt to extort you more than anything else.

That depends on how it is presented to the court. If presented as business partnership that the investor was meant to get profits from and the business went bad - he will probably get nothing. If presented as a loan to be repaid with some interest - then he should get back his money+interest

[jomtienisgood]

On 6/28/2021 at 2:35 PM, ukrules said:

 

You side of the argument seems to get better, he's only paid you 20,000 Baht directly.

 

The payment of 40,000 to the landlord if he submits it as 'evidence' kind of proves that you were business partners and it wasn't some sort of loan to you - his argument, whatever it is just got a lot weaker.

 

I think this guy is just trying it on, he will likely end up with nothing but legal bills. It's hard to imagine exactly what his reasoning is here.

 

When you take someone to court you need a specific complaint demonstrating that someone has 'done a wrong' that needs correcting by the intervention of a judge. I can't see any evidence of a wrongful act and all that really matters will be the evidence, of which there is none.

 

He was an idiot for trusting you without a contract, especially if he wanted to build in compensation clauses.

 

Your agreement is worth the paper it's written on.

I would agree with you ,  and moreover is ' he ' only threatening or actually engaging into court action??? If only the words I'd let him just talk.... 

[holy cow cm]

If he wins you pay for the lawyer costs and 7.5% overdue.

[jomtienisgood]

3 hours ago, Tropposurfer said:

Save yourself grief in the frustrating and quirky Thai (some say biased) legal system and give the guy 45K on the proviso he signs (in the presence of signing witnesses) a legal doc drawn up by your lawyer saying he will take no further action, against you or any entity you hold shares in or control of, that he accepts this amount as the full and final payment of return of the 40K invested in your joint business venture by him, with fair, generous and agreed upon interest.  

Why don't you help him financially by paying it yourself??? ????

[kralledr]

LMAO...

 

Appointment was today he was not there, not even his laywer