Thai Research Indicates Vaccine Cocktail of Sinovac and AstraZeneca Is Very Effective

[rabas]

The title of this Nature Medicine journal publication says it all.  It includes all major vaccines.

 

Neutralizing antibody levels are highly predictive of immune protection from symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection

 

So antibody studies are very useful, but this was known. The only issue with Dr. Yong's study is the two shot AZ data (chart previous page) used a sub-optimal 10 week delay between shots. A longer delay would improve the AZ 2 shot results. 

[placeholder]

45 minutes ago, rabas said:

The title of this Nature Medicine journal publication says it all.  It includes all major vaccines.

 

Neutralizing antibody levels are highly predictive of immune protection from symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection

 

So antibody studies are very useful, but this was known. The only issue with Dr. Yong's study is the two shot AZ data (chart previous page) used a sub-optimal 10 week delay between shots. A longer delay would improve the AZ 2 shot results. 

From the abstract:

" We estimated the neutralization level for 50% protection against detectable SARS-CoV-2 infection to be 20.2% of the mean convalescent level (95% confidence interval (CI) = 14.4–28.4%). The estimated neutralization level required for 50% protection from severe infection was significantly lower (3% of the mean convalescent level; 95% CI = 0.7–13%, P = 0.0004). "

[pentagara]

18 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

So where is this study?  Can he give us a link to the statistical side of the study showing the number of those vaccinated with both the Sinovac and Az vaccine.  Was this done using animals, or in Humans.  Are they following those people and checking on them daily, are they filling out an online form to show basic functions such as fever and symptoms they might have, or following them to see what side effects they may be having after the mixture.  Are the stats he stated from his own views and research in a controlled environment, if so these must just be in the early stages and is his conjecture based upon a Hypothesis. Where has this been peer reviewed.  Trying to see how and where he obtained this information from if they just started mixing the doses and giving them to individuals a little over two weeks ago.  

 

They have probably done an antibody titer test - as the article suggests ('unit'). That's a quite good indicator based on current knowledge and could also be published. Still, it's preliminary.

 

You're talking about something like a phase 3 trial which cannot be done in a few weeks. Waiting a few months till those results could be in might not be smart either though. Besides, also phase 3 trial data is actually not sufficient to draw good, comparable conclusions. You'd also need daily tests and gene sequencing for those who are infected to check for variants. Both were not done for phase 3 trials for most vaccines including Pfizer/Biontech and Moderna.

[Khun Yogi]

18 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

So where is this study?  Can he give us a link to the statistical side of the study showing the number of those vaccinated with both the Sinovac and Az vaccine.  Was this done using animals, or in Humans.  Are they following those people and checking on them daily, are they filling out an online form to show basic functions such as fever and symptoms they might have, or following them to see what side effects they may be having after the mixture.  Are the stats he stated from his own views and research in a controlled environment, if so these must just be in the early stages and is his conjecture based upon a Hypothesis. Where has this been peer reviewed.  Trying to see how and where he obtained this information from if they just started mixing the doses and giving them to individuals a little over two weeks ago.  

 

l no longer have any faith in what this guy says. He's been pushing Sinovac since the beginning even when infections are still rising steadily every day. !!!!!!!

[hotchilli]

18 hours ago, webfact said:

Thailand’s Centre of Excellence in Clinical Virology, at the Faculty of Medicine of Chulalongkorn University, reports that a vaccine cocktail of Sinovac and AstraZeneca is highly effective.

Thailand finds anything that is available is effective....

[hotchilli]

18 hours ago, BobinBKK said:

Thai research... 5555555555555

 

18 hours ago, webfact said:

Thailand’s Centre of Excellence in Clinical Virology

Say's it all.... nice logo over the door but nothing inside.

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, Khun Yogi said:

l no longer have any faith in what this guy says. He's been pushing Sinovac since the beginning even when infections are still rising steadily every day. !!!!!!!

What percentage of the Thai population has been fully vaccinated? Why would you expect such a low vaccination level to have on impact on infections.

And there is no real world data yet on how well the vaccine protects against serious illness and deaths.

[jerrymahoney]

It's Pfizer or nothing! Only the best for me.

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by jerrymahoney

[metisdead]

Posts denigrating and calling Chinese vaccines useless and referring to it with derogatory names has been removed.

Whilst it may be less effective in certain cases ie Delta strain it is by no means useless.

 

At the end of the day this is a Thai government sponsored vaccine and the forum and or yourself can get in trouble for comments like this so stop it.

 

A post containing content that was copy and pasted from the Bangkok Post has been removed:

 

26) The Bangkok Post and Phuketwan do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on ASEANNOW.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Phuketwan publications will be deleted from the forum.

Edited July 27, 2021 by metisdead

[MrJ2U]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

From the abstract:

" We estimated the neutralization level for 50% protection against detectable SARS-CoV-2 infection to be 20.2% of the mean convalescent level (95% confidence interval (CI) = 14.4–28.4%). The estimated neutralization level required for 50% protection from severe infection was significantly lower (3% of the mean convalescent level; 95% CI = 0.7–13%, P = 0.0004). "

Could you put that in laymans terms. I think its saying " 50%" lower?

[placeholder]

Just now, MrJ2U said:

Could you put that in laymans terms. I think its saying " 50%" lower?

What it's saying is that even with a very low level of antibodies, your chances of getting seriously ill are lowered by 50%. That said, I'm not going to look up what the levels of antibodies are in convalescents and compare that to the level in those vaccinated with Sinovac. At least, I think I'm not going to. Still, I wouldn't put it past me.

[MrJ2U]

Thats convenient.

[pentagara]

12 hours ago, XJPSX said:

We are currently living the largest ever clinical trial of drugs that have not had long term effects determined. In this case humans are the lab rats.

So what do you call a 'natural' infection with the virus and studying its impact on a subject? Is that a non-lab rat experiment? In that case I'd rather be the lab rat, where I get a muzzled virus or a replica to train on first. It's good to have volunteers for natural infections though, from a scientific perspective.

[MrJ2U]

1 hour ago, pentagara said:

They have probably done an antibody titer test - as the article suggests ('unit'). That's a quite good indicator based on current knowledge and could also be published. Still, it's preliminary.

 

You're talking about something like a phase 3 trial which cannot be done in a few weeks. Waiting a few months till those results could be in might not be smart either though. Besides, also phase 3 trial data is actually not sufficient to draw good, comparable conclusions. You'd also need daily tests and gene sequencing for those who are infected to check for variants. Both were not done for phase 3 trials for most vaccines including Pfizer/Biontech and Moderna.

That is a major concern.  There is very little data from Sinovac and Sinopharm despite being approved for emergency use in more than 54 countries.

 

We're booked for Moderna but hopefully Astra Zeneca will be more widely available up here in the North East.

 

The regular Thai villagers around here won't take Sinovac and are to poor to pay for Sinopharm.

 

[spidermike007]

I think it is fairly safe to say, at this point, that the term "Thai research" does not exactly inspire confidence in the masses. I would almost say it means little to nothing. When is the last time this "group" was peer reviewed, published in a major medical journal, or questioned by international health bodies?

 

Thailand’s Centre of Excellence in Clinical Virology, at the Faculty of Medicine of Chulalongkorn University. That title could have been part of a George Carlin routine, if the comic genius was still around. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by spidermike007

[placeholder]

33 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I think it is fairly safe to say, at this point, that the term "Thai research" does not exactly inspire confidence in the masses. I would almost say it means little to nothing. When is the last time this "group" was peer reviewed, published in a major medical journal, or questioned by international health bodies?

 

I don't know the answer to that question. Do  you?

[BobinBKK]

3 hours ago, hotchilli said:

 

Say's it all.... nice logo over the door but nothing inside.

That explains my bout of tom yum flu earlier this morning...

[jerrymahoney]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

That title could have been part of a George Carlin routine, if the comic genius was still around. 

He isn't. But we could wait for your next "I have a friend who ..." routine.

[sawadee1947]

I would tell the same if I would sit on loads of Sinovac!????

Concerning Astra..... consider who is the owner of Bioscience, which is producing Astra in Thailand??? ????

(Actually I haven't seen him for a long time) 

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

I don't know the answer to that question. Do  you?

Likely never. Thai scientific research is not exactly at the pinnacle of the world stage. 

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Likely never. Thai scientific research is not exactly at the pinnacle of the world stage. 

In other words, you don't know.

[spidermike007]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

In other words, you don't know.

Nobody knows, as they are some of the least relevant scientific bodies, outside Africa. 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Nobody knows, as they are some of the least relevant scientific bodies, outside Africa. 

Again with the attitude and insults directed at Thai research, but absolutely no knowledge of the actual situation. Your comments are just the antithesis of cheerleading and with no more use for the facts.

[jerrymahoney]

5 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Nobody knows, as they are some of the least relevant scientific bodies, outside Africa. 

And some of the most relevant scientific bodies are in the US but you are happy and thankful not to be there.

[Mickeymaus]

I am so disappointed that there is still no amulet that protects you. 

[gearbox]

4 hours ago, pentagara said:

They have probably done an antibody titer test - as the article suggests ('unit'). That's a quite good indicator based on current knowledge and could also be published. Still, it's preliminary.

 

You're talking about something like a phase 3 trial which cannot be done in a few weeks. Waiting a few months till those results could be in might not be smart either though. Besides, also phase 3 trial data is actually not sufficient to draw good, comparable conclusions. You'd also need daily tests and gene sequencing for those who are infected to check for variants. Both were not done for phase 3 trials for most vaccines including Pfizer/Biontech and Moderna.

You say that the antibody test is a good indicator and I hope so...but the US FDA doesn't recommend it for assessment of immunity:

 

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/safety-communications/antibody-testing-not-currently-recommended-assess-immunity-after-covid-19-vaccination-fda-safety

 

If that is not recommended, then what's left? What the people can do to check if the jabs they got provide them with enough immunity?

[spidermike007]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Again with the attitude and insults directed at Thai research, but absolutely no knowledge of the actual situation. Your comments are just the antithesis of cheerleading and with no more use for the facts.

Not insults. Just facts. Doing some research on it, and cannot find anything to back up your assertion that what I am saying is not factual. Just read this report on ASEAN. Singapore appears to be the only member of ASEAN which has an advanced scientific community and infrastructure. Thailand is rated in the 50's, when it comes to educational support of the sciences. It is no wonder they produce so few world recognized scientists, nor are able to make any scientific breakthroughs of consequence. 

 

The economic progress of Singapore started with the good governance and policy which encouraged investment. In addition, the government encouraged scientific and technological innovation through development of national scientific manpower and skills (Singapore Research. Innovation and Enterprise, 2015). These scenarios led Singapore to become the leading scientific and technological country in ASEAN (Hassan et al., 2012). 

 

http://www.aessweb.com/pdf-files/ijass 3(7),1648-1657.pdf

[jerrymahoney]

From the above linked ASEAN report 

 

The very poor performer countries are the Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand and Philippines. Malaysia and Thailand are taking off due to the government program in scientific and technological innovation coupled with government program in economic development. In fact, Thailand is establishing reputable science and technology universities. 

 

Page 6 -- Note report is dated 2013.
 

Edited July 27, 2021 by jerrymahoney

[phetphet]

this article says a third shot of Sinovac six months after first two increases immune response, but not sure about Delta.

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trial-data-shows-third-sinovac-shot-boosts-antibodies-that-drop-in-six-months-271627322324

[jerrymahoney]

That's OK. It's been demonstrated at least these past few weeks/months that only control-grouped double-blind peer reviewed research results are good enough for the esteemed epidemiologists/virologists resident on this Forum.

 

Especially when they can say: "As I've said many times ..."

Edited July 27, 2021 by jerrymahoney