A Question about SinoPharm

[MrJ2U]

Go get yourself Sinovac then, I don't care.  Just a long as you know unlikely to prevent serious illness if contact COVID-19.

 

Chinas in a bad way now as all those people vaccinated with Sinovac are coming down with the Delta variant.  

 

 

 

Unfortunately for the Thai people they don't have a choice. 

 

Up  here they don't want Sinovac and can't afford Sinopharm.  Bastards shouldn't even be charging for vaccines.

 

My wife and I are paid and booked for Moderna unless the government takes it for themselves.

Rotten government.

 

CNN reports that the “vast majority” of people with a SARS-CoV-2 infection in the outbreak in Nanjing had already received their vaccination.

What’s more, there are concerns about the efficacy of China’s homegrown vaccines, Sinovac and Sinopharm.

The evidence of their efficacy against Delta is lacking from China itself due to relatively few cases. But in countries that China has supplied with its vaccines, such as Chile and Mongolia, cases are high compared with countries with similarly high vaccine coverage, such as Israel and the U.S.

Clinical trials suggest that SinovacTrusted Source and SinopharmTrusted Source, which manufacturers have based on inactivated viruses, are 50–79% effective at preventing infection. By contrast, ModernaTrusted Source and Pfizer-BioNTechTrusted Source, which are mRNA vaccines, confer more than 90% protection.

[MrJ2U]

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Not a real convincing piece of deflection. You claimed that Sinovac was ineffective. Nothing you've cited here supports that contention. It's overwhelmingly likely that Sinovac is less effective at stopping transmission, and at reducing hospitalizations and death. And Thailand should be using a better vaccine But that doesn't make your original contention that Sinovac is ineffective accurate, or even close to accurate. 

It may be that as studies emerge that will be shown to be the case. It's dubious, but possible. But in the meantime, you should stop making things up.

 

12 minutes ago, placeholder said:

As I explicitly noted. But until there is actual clinical data about its performance against the Delta variant, it's what we've got.

I agree.

 

Stay safe young man.

[placeholder]

16 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

 

I agree.

 

Stay safe young man.

I'l try but don't think I can resist the opportunities to take the insane risks offered by thaivisa.com

Edited August 12, 2021 by placeholder

[Damrongsak]

20 hours ago, internationalism said:

so what does it translates to? 

I did explain why sinopharm migh be better than sinovac. It has 78% efficacy, which is higher, than sinovac. It's also now own by the CP thai conglomerate, so smaller chance for corruption during purchase process.

If you do have answer, do give. I do stand by my statement

I believe Sinopharm is majority-owned by the Chinese government and partly by Fosun Pharma.  Sino Biopharmaceutical, controlled by CP Pharmaceutical Group, has a 15% stake in Sinovac Life Sciences.

[internationalism]

correct.

I do apologise for a spelling mistake, as I was writing at 2am, so little tired and tipsy:

suppose to be "not and not "now". So corrected " It's also not own by the CP thai conglomerate, so smaller chance for corruption during purchase process."

[n8sail]

15 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

any side effects reported?

Girlfriend, 42, had her 2nd Sinopharm jab, purchased by company in Rayong on Tuesday this week.  First one she felt kind of sick, slight fever the next day.  This past one arm hurt more immediately after for 24hrs, and had some slight sickness feeling last night, so those symptoms were delayed a day more than first one.  Seemed to be right as rain this morning working from home as I left for work.

 

On Monday  night we are flying to USA so I can get vaccinated as I'm also 42 and the expatvac scam website that now has all our data has still not come through.   She wants to get a Pfizer 'booster' at the end of the trip of 3 weeks in the USA as Sinopharm has efficacy limitations noted above.

 

We are both very healthy and live a very active lifestyle.

Edited August 13, 2021 by n8sail

[konaboy]

If found to be ineffective, then start all over.

"Deja vu all over again"

Y. Berra

[NicoBKK]

On 8/12/2021 at 6:43 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Sinopharm is available to companies  and has to be paid for, I've had one already, 2nd one in 2 weeks. Pattaya City Hall was meant to buy a load but nothing has come if that so far, probably got out bid

Agreed, my Company did register me (below 60 YO) and my wife and we did already have the fist doses, second ones by end Aug

Edited August 13, 2021 by NicoBKK

[cmarshall]

On 8/12/2021 at 12:02 AM, internationalism said:

yes, recently another 5mln imported.

Registration every Wednesday at 10:10 (something to do with numerology, which tells you all about an academic level at chula university).

Use to be priced 888b, now dropped to 777b (that's also numerology).

In hungarian research not effective for 25% of those above 60 yo, not even at a minimal level.

Still, probably better, than sinovac.

If she is not active professionally now, she can wait for sinopharm. 

Sinopharm was approved by WHO a week before sinovac, so possibly is/was better 

The Hungarian study reported not a measure of effectiveness against contracting Covid or dying from it, but only levels of antibodies.  It found that 25% of older recipients of Sinopharm did not have the required minimum level of antibodies.  Antibody production typically declines over time with vaccines, but I was unable to find comparable data for other Covid vaccines.  Protection against infection or serious disease involves more than antibodies, such as B cells, which produce antibodies, and T cells.

 

Estimates of Sinopharm's effectiveness against infection in other studies range from 50% (Brazil) to 86% (Abu Dhabi.)  

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, cmarshall said:

The Hungarian study reported not a measure of effectiveness against contracting Covid or dying from it, but only levels of antibodies.  It found that 25% of older recipients of Sinopharm did not have the required minimum level of antibodies.  Antibody production typically declines over time with vaccines, but I was unable to find comparable data for other Covid vaccines.  Protection against infection or serious disease involves more than antibodies, such as B cells, which produce antibodies, and T cells.

 

Estimates of Sinopharm's effectiveness against infection in other studies range from 50% (Brazil) to 86% (Abu Dhabi.)  

Actually, it was Sinovac's vaccine, Coronavac, that was tested for effectiveness in Brazil. And that was for effectiveness in stopping any symptoms. It performs much better against serious symptoms and deaths.

[cmarshall]

20 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Actually, it was Sinovac's vaccine, Coronavac, that was tested for effectiveness in Brazil. And that was for effectiveness in stopping any symptoms. It performs much better against serious symptoms and deaths.

Yes, that's right.  As of 7/26/2021 Sinopharm has not received temporary authorization in Brazil and has no study results.

[rickudon]

Sinopharm being rolled out to public in Udon thani. F-in-L got jabbed yesterday. He is 80 though.

[scubascuba3]

8 hours ago, rickudon said:

Sinopharm being rolled out to public in Udon thani. F-in-L got jabbed yesterday. He is 80 though.

It doesn't sound particularly good for over 60s, efficacy is better as people get younger. The other problem with it most countries haven't approved it yet. My second shot Tuesday

[internationalism]

for the last 3 wednesdays I was trying to register with them. No success. First time they were overloaded and put me on a waiting mode, which later bumped me out from the queue.

The last week and yesterday they did not open registration window at all with "try at another time", which means yet another wednesday.

I did count on them, because they have constant supply, coming every few weeks. Also, as a payed service, you are not at mercy of the government officials postponing/cancelling at their will.

 

[samtab]

People still rushing ? you really think that the covid will kill you tomorrow morning ? wow, this world is so weird..

 

 

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, samtab said:

People still rushing ? you really think that the covid will kill you tomorrow morning ? wow, this world is so weird..

 

 

What is really weird is the belief that the only possible serious consequence of Covid-19 is death.

Edited August 19, 2021 by placeholder

[FridgeMagnet1]

 

On 8/12/2021 at 2:02 PM, MrJ2U said:

You can cheerlead all you like for Sinovac and Sinopharm.

 

China has even admitted that there vaccines aren't very good.

 

"Chinese vaccines “don’t have very high protection rates,” said the director of the China Centers for Disease Control, Gao <deleted>, at a conference Saturday in the southwestern city of Chengdu."

 

 

 

 

hahah, here we go again! Have you detected another “wumao?”

 

What happened to your amazing thread about that, warning posters to be vigilant? 

[ThaSalaPaul]

On 8/19/2021 at 7:43 AM, scubascuba3 said:

It doesn't sound particularly good for over 60s, efficacy is better as people get younger. The other problem with it most countries haven't approved it yet. My second shot Tuesday

Efficacy gets better as people "get younger"? That's only going to help Benjamin Button ????

[cdemundo]

On 8/12/2021 at 4:39 AM, MrJ2U said:

Sinopharm is better than nothing and Sinovac is about equal to nothing.

70% effectiveness means your risk is reduced by 70%.

50% effectiveness meant your risk is reduced by half.

 

People never paid any attention to these numbers about vaccine effectiveness before, then suddenly with the reports about 90% plus for the mRNA vaccines that became the bench mark.

 

Many in the media are vague or flat out incorrect about interpreting these numbers.  50% risk does not mean you have a 50% chance of getting COVID, did we ever think our risk was 100%.?

 

 

 

 

[MrJ2U]

10 hours ago, cdemundo said:

People never paid any attention to these numbers about vaccine effectiveness before, then suddenly with the reports about 90% plus for the mRNA vaccines that became the bench mark.

Its more the government never paid attention.

 

Medical experts have been pleading for the government to order more effective vaccines but yet they just keep ordering Sinovac.  18 million more as of yesterday.

 

Its a bang your head in frustration moment.

 

Everyone is aware that it has poor effeciency.

 

There is very little data on its effeciency with Delta.

 

Everyone is well read about the vaccine's by now.

 

They could ordering 100 million doses 6 months ago.

 

There is no defense.

 

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by MrJ2U

[placeholder]

42 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Everyone is aware that it has poor effeciency.

 

There is very little data on its effeciency with Delta.

You don't see a contradiction between those 2 sentences.

And  "effeciency" or "efficency" aren't actually terms in epidemiology.

 

And here's a little nugget for you:

"Preliminary data published by the Israeli government in July showed the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was just 16% effective against symptomatic infection for people who had received two doses in January."

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/30/israel-doubles-down-on-covid-booster-shots-as-breakthrough-cases-rise.html

[MrJ2U]

31 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You don't see a contradiction between those 2 sentences.

And  "effeciency" or "efficency" aren't actually terms in epidemiology.

 

And here's a little nugget for you:

"Preliminary data published by the Israeli government in July showed the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was just 16% effective against symptomatic infection for people who had received two doses in January."

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/30/israel-doubles-down-on-covid-booster-shots-as-breakthrough-cases-rise.html

CDC is saying that a 3 shot regimen is going to be the norm for COVID-19.

 

Thats the quality vaccines.

Pfeizer and Moderna

 

Does that mean 5 or 6 for the Chinese vaccines?

 

There is no defending this government aquiring Chinese vacvines.

 

Another problem we can't travel to the UK or The USA as Sinovac isn't recognized.

 

... Bigger problem is most Thais DO NOT want the Chinese vacvines.  So you have vaccine hesitancy.

 

 

[MrJ2U]

38 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You don't see a contradiction between those 2 sentences.

And  "effeciency" or "efficency" aren't actually terms in epidemiology.

 

And here's a little nugget for you:

"Preliminary data published by the Israeli government in July showed the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was just 16% effective against symptomatic infection for people who had received two doses in January."

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/30/israel-doubles-down-on-covid-booster-shots-as-breakthrough-cases-rise.html

Best for thing for yourself is get Sinovac.

 

You've convinced yourself is just wonderful.

 

Get 4 or 5 while your at it.

 

You'll need it.

[placeholder]

47 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

CDC is saying that a 3 shot regimen is going to be the norm for COVID-19.

 

Thats the quality vaccines.

Pfeizer and Moderna

 

Does that mean 5 or 6 for the Chinese vaccines?

 

There is no defending this government aquiring Chinese vacvines.

 

Another problem we can't travel to the UK or The USA as Sinovac isn't recognized.

 

... Bigger problem is most Thais DO NOT want the Chinese vacvines.  So you have vaccine hesitancy.

 

 

There is certainly no defending the government's past actions to acquire Chinese vaccines when they had opted for only 3 million doses of AZ vaccine when they could have had 10 million.

But that is not where things stand now, is it? mRNA vaccines or adenovirus vector vaccines are in short supply. Unless, of course, you have a secret source that can supply a sufficient quantity here and now. If so, please share that information with the rest of us.

As for traveling to the USA or UK, do you think that's a major concern of most Thai people? 

The question isn't whether most Thai people want the vaccine, but whether they'll accept it in lieu of anything else. So far, the Thai govt hasn't encountered a problem in vaccinating its citizens with Chinese vaccines.

As for your comment about 5 or 6 vaccinations of Chinese vaccines...why do you want to advert your lack of knowledge about vaccines and vaccination? You haven't even mastered basic terminology.

Edited September 9, 2021 by placeholder

[placeholder]

47 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Best for thing for yourself is get Sinovac.

 

You've convinced yourself is just wonderful.

 

Get 4 or 5 while your at it.

 

You'll need it.

It's an unfailing indication that someone has nothing relevant or useful to say on a subject if they make it personal. Wisest course for you to pursue is to quit while you're behind. 

[l4ml4m]

I find so stupid that Thai cannot have 2 sinopharm injections anymore ?

They are forced to mix and use AZ as second shot ? Just because some retarded politics of this world who know nothing and who are followed by idiots have decided it ?

I am talking for a Thai who is looking for a second sinopharm shot that has been refused.

 

I would never vaccinate, let alone mix 2 vaccines !!! People must be so stupid to accept this !

 

 

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

Its more the government never paid attention.

 

Medical experts have been pleading for the government to order more effective vaccines but yet they just keep ordering Sinovac.  18 million more as of yesterday.

 

Its a bang your head in frustration moment.

 

Everyone is aware that it has poor effeciency.

 

There is very little data on its effeciency with Delta.

 

Everyone is well read about the vaccine's by now.

 

They could ordering 100 million doses 6 months ago.

 

There is no defense.

 

 

Sinovacs reported efficacy is 50% whereas the mRNA vaccines run at closer to 95%.

 

The efficacy values come from test groups where test candidates are ‘chosen’ and are thus usually healthy do not have underlying conditions and are not of extreme age ranges. 

 

Real world effectiveness is harder to measure and is usually lower than the efficacy values because the vaccines may not be as effective for people with sever underling conditions or in extreme age groups. 

 

All of that said: In the absence of availability of ‘other vaccines’ any vaccine is better than none at the moment, especially as Thailand is now also adopting a mix-and-match whereby if someone has Sinovac they can later opt to have AstraZeneca, Pfizer or Moderna, depending on availability. 

 

 

Its easy to look back and say Thailand ’should have’ ordered more, of course it should have. A country which wants to pay trillions for 3 Submarines from China doesn’t want to spend billions ordering up vaccines they may not get to use - something is wrong. 

 

There is also perhaps the ‘arrogance factor’ - Those in positions of decision making power may have believed they’d protected Thailand from the outbreak with the Emergency Decree Protocols and quarantine on entry etc. However, Thailand was not really testing a great deal at that time, thus, a win-win at the time for those in positions of decision making power ‘protecting the nation’.... Since then, pandora’s box has been opened, someone made the mistake of testing a load of labourers, they must have caught it from ’somewhere’ (blame the Burmese coming through the borders and not the Thai’s letting them through !!!).

 

While Thailand sat by, locked down thinking Covid-19 would disappear if it stayed locked down it came to realise that this was not the case...  then commenced the Vaccine panic they are desperately trying to dig themselves out of. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, l4ml4m said:

I find so stupid that Thai cannot have 2 sinopharm injections anymore ?

They are forced to mix and use AZ as second shot ? Just because some retarded politics of this world who know nothing and who are followed by idiots have decided it ?

I am talking for a Thai who is looking for a second sinopharm shot that has been refused.

 

I would never vaccinate, let alone mix 2 vaccines !!! People must be so stupid to accept this !

Why ? You don’t believe leading doctors and virologists ?

 

When you say you would never vaccinate... do you mean ‘any vaccine’ or just Covid vaccines ?

 

 

[l4ml4m]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Why ? You don’t believe leading doctors and virologists ?

 

When you say you would never vaccinate... do you mean ‘any vaccine’ or just Covid vaccines ?

 

 

of course I am smart enough to not believe nobody and any vaccine.

keep dreaming if you think that people who talk know anything, you included.

the only logic way to proceed is to avoid injecting anything that I do not need.

my parents will also not vaccinate and they accept to die if they get covid, I support them. At the same time they are not obese pieces of $hit who never exercise their whole life but then fear to die..

 

 

 

 

[ripstanley]

On 8/12/2021 at 6:10 AM, jackdd said:

I think Thailand doesn't do two doses of Sinovac anymore, but the new standard is first dose Sinovac, second dose AZ.

Is Sinovac + AZ better than two doses of Sinopharm?

I have a friend who got AZ today. This was her 2nd jab. The first was Sinovac and both free.