'We don't know if we'll survive': Thailand sex workers left struggling as COVID-19 lockdown drags on

[Broken Record]

7 minutes ago, NanaSomchai said:

Precisely; left as soon as the COVID-19 thing blew over with no regrets.

 

Until there's a strict reform of how they treat us at the Jomtien immigration office and how the Banglamung Land Office improves it's seriousness and it's command of the English language usage, they are not seeing one extra single baht from me.

 

Nada, zero, zlitch.

 

Not 1 baht.

 

Leaving was the right thing for you to do, Thailand isn't for everybody and if you're not happy you certainly did right, many here who seem extremely unhappy yet stay here for years moaning about how Thailand or Thai people have messed up their lives ( It's never them who made terrible choices of course ) should follow your example, be happy in this short life, good luck to you. ????

[Leaver]

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Can't say I've ever been ripped off by a bar girl.

My experiences with them have been entirely worth the surprisingly small expense.

 

It's the ones that play the long game that do the most financial and emotional damage.  Solution is, rent, don't buy.  ????  

[NanaSomchai]

1 hour ago, Broken Record said:

Leaving was the right thing for you to do, Thailand isn't for everybody and if you're not happy you certainly did right, many here who seem extremely unhappy yet stay here for years moaning about how Thailand or Thai people have messed up their lives ( It's never them who made terrible choices of course ) should follow your example, be happy in this short life, good luck to you. ????

Indeed leaving was the right move.

 

We’re drifting off-topic but I am a westerner farang looking towards Cyprus and Greece as we speak to spend my older days, Thailand has lost its appeal.

 

But I wouldn’t mind buying a small T2 condominium in either Athens or Nicosa or Limassol with a little gardened terrace or even a balcony with a nice view.

 

You feel me?

 

Edit: Italy also, Sardinia, Calabria.

Edited August 17, 2021 by NanaSomchai

[jazzdog32095]

13 hours ago, The Cipher said:

This doesn't surprise me at all.

 

My curiosity is more about what the foreign husband finds appealing about that arrangement. If they're happy then that's great. But the idea of marrying a former bargirl and raising someone else's kid isn't something that resonates with me at all, and so I'm just trying to broaden my horizons by reading the perspectives of others.

I agree, you look at the math and the fact these girls are buying cloths, food and butts, booze and/or beer during the day, then 4000-5000 rent and sending money back home. Say minimum 25-30K per month means 25-30 been in the house every month, 300-400/ year. Average girl is over 25 so that's maybe 2500 friends she has maid before the honeymoon. How's that resonate with you. I didn't even going into the family and mental issues you take on. 

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, jazzdog32095 said:

Average girl is over 25 so that's maybe 2500 friends she has maid before the honeymoon.

 

What are you basing these figures on?

[jazzdog32095]

6 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

What are you basing these figures on?

Extensive field studies. Insert whatever age girl you believe the majority of farang may unwittingly choose to be wife material. Doesn't really matter because after 6 months in the bar there is already a good bit of mileage, mental abuse and financing her family is a given in any case. 

[ChipButty]

10 hours ago, NanaSomchai said:

Indeed leaving was the right move.

 

We’re drifting off-topic but I am a westerner farang looking towards Cyprus and Greece as we speak to spend my older days, Thailand has lost its appeal.

 

But I wouldn’t mind buying a small T2 condominium in either Athens or Nicosa or Limassol with a little gardened terrace or even a balcony with a nice view.

 

You feel me?

 

Edit: Italy also, Sardinia, Calabria.

I spent 3 months in Northern Cyprus before covid we had a great time my wife also liked it

[ikke1959]

SAnd there is no prostitution in Thailand, so how can they be unemployed????

 

[sezze]

35 minutes ago, jazzdog32095 said:

Extensive field studies. Insert whatever age girl you believe the majority of farang may unwittingly choose to be wife material. Doesn't really matter because after 6 months in the bar there is already a good bit of mileage, mental abuse and financing her family is a given in any case. 

Extensive field studies ... in a bar drinking beer . Sure there are girls with 2500 or even a lot more mileage on their counter , but saying it is the average is a big thing . Also , if you care about how many man she had before , why care about a girl from a bar . I cannot understand the double standard , like a fight between religion and hormones . You do have to except that not all men are the same and neither are all woman . Bargirls come in plenty of varieties , same like the men ( well actually more different on the woman side ) . Some girls are looking for relationship , other are just looking for cash . Even between those 2 there are huge overlaps . I've met and talked to many many girls before as part of my personal field study . The ones i add as field study are in the phase where she knows i im not interested in going with her but just having a friendly talk , since i've known them long time ( meaning knowing them for multiple holidays , talking with them in bar might or might not gone with her ever before ). I can tell you that 2500 by 25 is not at all the average , but some are surely. 

[jazzdog32095]

13 minutes ago, sezze said:

Extensive field studies ... in a bar drinking beer . Sure there are girls with 2500 or even a lot more mileage on their counter , but saying it is the average is a big thing . Also , if you care about how many man she had before , why care about a girl from a bar . I cannot understand the double standard , like a fight between religion and hormones . You do have to except that not all men are the same and neither are all woman . Bargirls come in plenty of varieties , same like the men ( well actually more different on the woman side ) . Some girls are looking for relationship , other are just looking for cash . Even between those 2 there are huge overlaps . I've met and talked to many many girls before as part of my personal field study . The ones i add as field study are in the phase where she knows i im not interested in going with her but just having a friendly talk , since i've known them long time ( meaning knowing them for multiple holidays , talking with them in bar might or might not gone with her ever before ). I can tell you that 2500 by 25 is not at all the average , but some are surely. 

They are there because it is their job to make bar fines and sell lady drinks. Vast majority live hand to mouth and are looking for as many punters as possible to make the money they need to survive.

Of course a relationship would be fine but 3 or 4 sponsors is much easier to come by and leaves them more time with friends. As far as the math a girl that starts out at 18 needing 30K/month will rack up 2500 bar fines. The stunners that qualify as trophy wives would likely have done many more. The girls you are talking to must not be making much money sitting around talking to you and may end up having the bar owner telling her to move on.

[Walker88]

12 hours ago, NanaSomchai said:

 

The country hasn't progressed an inch over the past 40 years; it is still all about 1% of the population the "Hi-So" living it up in Bangkok hirise condos while the other 99% rest are struggling either in the sex trade industry or in the rice fields.

 

The country will never change as long as it's coups after coups; corruption after corruption self elected officials and of course scams towards foreigners scam after scam after scam.

 

They had one very tiny slim chance at change two years ago with the election, they dissolved the Future Forward party to make sure this would NEVER happen again,  this country is fubar'ed beyond repair.

 

 

 

You're a jaded cynic, but I can't find too much fault with your argument (which might make me a jaded cynic, too)

 

Every country has corruption, but here it's ubiquitous. It's elected officials, petty bureaucrats....all the way down to taxi drivers and scheming bargirls. I don't necessarily fault any of the lower-strata corrupt types, because they have learned that in life one is either a fleecer or the fleeced, often both. There is no culture of earned achievement or lifting one's self up by his/her bootstraps; it's more he who scams first, scams best.

 

Culture is difficult to overcome, as one is honed by its warm embrace. A place where some are semi-divine merely by virtue of birth, while others gain from a supposed previous existence nobody remembers (because it's silly superstition) tends to create an environment where hard work and honest effort can be viewed as pointless or for mugs and suckers. It's no wonder in such a culture, despite its claimed age, there is a sum total of zero additions to the body of human knowledge, nor a single invention or discovery of note. That is actually astonishing, as in terms of population, the country is something like #25 in the world.

 

Bargirls are thus a product of the culture in which they grew up. Their looks or body is a gift for past life nobility, so they put those gifts to work trying to get ahead in the manner her society demands, which is finding someone to scam. It's not easy to be objective, see what traits one inherited by virtue of birth and rearing, and remove the ones that either are unattractive or immoral (by whose definition?), and developing a humanistic approach to life.

 

Like corruption, most societies also have deeply held beliefs that are nothing more than silly superstition. EVERY indication is that the Universe is random at the personal level, that existence has no meaning whatsoever except it is, and yet most people need to manufacture a framework in which they can fool themselves into believing they have more control and relevance than they do. They do illogical things like thinking they 'make merit' by releasing birds or fish somebody else caught for the sole purpose of making money selling to such addled brain believers (apparently merit is neither created nor destroyed, but what is lost in capturing a bird is gained by its release....it's almost Newtonian!). People also need to believe there is some entity in charge...sometimes Earthly, sometimes celestial...and that entity need not be good, but just in charge. Deals can be made even with a malevolent entity; no deals can be made with a random Universe. So folks whose ostensible goal is to reach a point without want or need, pray for anything and everything they shouldn't want nor need, and then expect to get it because they let a bird go or gave tribute to someone with power..

 

It's all so befuddling that it is hardly any wonder that folks---bargirls---end up as they do. They are too deep in the weeds to escape their conditioning. Perhaps we Westerners are, too, caught up in our own cultural beliefs and peculiarities, but I think more of us are able to separate ourselves from our upbringing and take a more honest look at it.  I think we owe folks like Francis Bacon, Spinoza, Desiderious and others some thanks for opening a door to objectivity. Here, few can do that (be objective), hence what you note in your post.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Walker88

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/16/2021 at 10:01 PM, NanaSomchai said:

Nicosia, CY. Limassol, CY. Marrakesh, MA. Da Nang, VN.

 

There used to be Savanakhet but the Chinese ransacked it a few years ago, effectively destroying the foreigner oriented bar scene.

Did you miss when I said "Cyprus also has a bar scene, but nowhere near as affordable as Thailand, and not nice at all." Certainly not "cheap" by any standard.

I didn't like the Cyprus scene at all. Not helped by having to listen to bouzouki noise for ages. Hotels were not guest friendly either.

[BritManToo]

18 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Bargirls are thus a product of the culture in which they grew up. Their looks or body is a gift for past life nobility, so they put those gifts to work trying to get ahead in the manner her society demands, which is finding someone to scam. It's not easy to be objective, see what traits one inherited by virtue of birth and rearing, and remove the ones that either are unattractive or immoral (by whose definition?), and developing a humanistic approach to life.

Don't know why you're so down on bar girls, they've always treated me very nicely.

Lived with three over the past 12 years, not one of them took more than I was prepared to give.

Unlike my former Brit schoolteacher wife who would have murdered our kids in order to take another $50 from me.

 

As for the two previous, all in LTRs.

One married to a Dutch guy who built a resort on her land, she got fat.

The other married a retired policeman, she had breast cancer, both removed.

Don't know if they're happy or not.

Edited August 18, 2021 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

Did you miss when I said "Cyprus also has a bar scene, but nowhere near as affordable as Thailand, and not nice at all." Certainly not "cheap" by any standard.

I didn't like the Cyprus scene at all. Not helped by having to listen to bouzouki noise for ages. Hotels were not guest friendly either.

Had a pal who purchased an apartment in Cyprus ........ he hated it, barely got 1/2 what he paid when he moved to Thailand.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, NanaSomchai said:

The country hasn't progressed an inch over the past 40 years; it is still all about 1% of the population the "Hi-So" living it up in Bangkok hirise condos while the other 99% rest are struggling either in the sex trade industry or in the rice fields.

Seriously, multi millions working in the sex trade?

I very much doubt that as it would entail sex workers on ever street corner, and it's obvious that there are not.

No one actually knows the real number, but it's not as high as some imagine it to be based on a visit to Pattaya Walking Street, or Nana Plaza.

Large areas of Thailand have virtually no nightlife as such, but one needs to actually visit them to know.

[BritManToo]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

Large areas of Thailand have virtually no nightlife as such, but one needs to actually visit them to know.

Not sure about that, even my BiL in rural a Nan village has access to a girl on the side.

[Walker88]

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Don't know why you're so down on bar girls, they've always treated me very nicely.

Lived with three over the past 12 years, not one of them took more than I was prepared to give.

Unlike my former Brit schoolteacher wife who would have murdered our kids in order to take another $50 from me.

 

As for the two previous, all in LTRs.

One married to a Dutch guy who built a resort on her land, she got fat.

The other married a retired policeman, she had breast cancer, both removed.

Don't know if they're happy or not.

I'm not down on them (there's a double entendre there for the taking). They are a product of their culture. Even if they have faults, that doesn't mean they lack all socially redeeming qualities. Many are delightful people.

 

The point I made is that they---and all of us---are honed and tempered by the culture within which we were raised. Tough to escape the qualities that culture inculcates in us.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Walker88

[BritManToo]

Just now, Walker88 said:

The point I made is that they---and all of us---are honed and tempered by the culture within which we were raised. Tough to escape the qualities that culture inculcates in us.

My culture, the culture of Victoria/Thatcher/Blair/Johnson says grab all you can from the little people.

And don't worry about how many foreigners you kill in the process.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Not sure about that, even my BiL in rural a Nan village has access to a girl on the side.

I was referring to actual bars and nightlife, not some girl willing to put out for treats. They exist wherever men and women do.

My wife's village had nothing more exciting than a walk along a lane with the dogs frothing to kill me from behind fences.

There was a restaurant with a splendid view of the mountains behind rice fields, but the women that worked in it were definitely not in the biz.

IMO that would be typical for most of the villages in the district. The nearest town was an hour away by bus.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

the pimps kept em poor ,pre 90s not many had pimps whereas now they all got pimps so pimps take all their earnings and leave em skint

Rubbish. I haven't seen a pimp in LOS since 1974.

What they do have are boyfriends that live off them, but that doesn't make them pimps.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, NanaSomchai said:

Which brings us up back at the very start of this thread/conversation, properly titled "Thailand sex workers left struggling" asking themselves if they'll ever be able to fleece tourists ever again?

 

That is all they are complaining about.

 

That is what the core of the article is all about, it isn't about "how can we reinvent ourselves? how can we seize this pandemic as an opportunity to call for a progressive change? how can give a good attempt at reinventing the wheel?", it's none of that.

 

It's "How the taxi mafia can retain very little control it has over Uber and competitors so we can keep scamming tourists?", "How can your typical bargirl/mamasan/barowner can keep fleecing the tourists with excessive and unnecessary barfines so we can keep milking those idiot farangs over and over?", "How can we change the property laws a tidbit to make sure foreigners invest in overpriced poorly maintained condominiums to keep the cash flow pouring into our flawed economy?", "How can we revoke visas, add unnecessary loopholes and extensive requirements to retirement visas etc, so we can milk those foreigners for even more money?", etc, etc, etc...

 

The country hasn't progressed an inch over the past 40 years; it is still all about 1% of the population the "Hi-So" living it up in Bangkok hirise condos while the other 99% rest are struggling either in the sex trade industry or in the rice fields.

 

The country will never change as long as it's coups after coups; corruption after corruption self elected officials and of course scams towards foreigners scam after scam after scam.

 

They had one very tiny slim chance at change two years ago with the election, they dissolved the Future Forward party to make sure this would NEVER happen again,  this country is fubar'ed beyond repair.

 

My only advice as a foreigner is; fly in, empty your testicles, fly out. There's nothing else waiting for us here nor there will ever be.

 

If that's what you actually believe about LOS, you made the correct decision to leave. Meanwhile farangs that do actually love LOS are still enjoying being there.

[BritManToo]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

If that's what you actually believe about LOS, you made the correct decision to leave. Meanwhile farangs that do actually love LOS are still enjoying being there.

I'm certainly enjoying living here.

I'm about as happy as a 65 year old guy could be living anywhere in the world.

Even being a billionaire probably wouldn't make me any happier.

[Rampant Rabbit]

Heres a  thought  girls......get a proper  job!

[Pumpuynarak]

17 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Heres a  thought  girls......get a proper  job!

 

[Broken Record]

 

2 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Heres a  thought  girls......get a proper  job!

Unless you are taking advantage of their situation ?

 

I'm sure by many of the responses here there is very little understanding about what really goes on, many Farangs have been to Thailand with a pocketful of money, splashed the cash and had a great time, couldn't wait to get back, always had money, were more than willing to part with some of that money to less fortunate human beings, conditional of course.

 

Many of the girls have deep emotional, psycological problems. but they put on an act of bravado, and it's exactly that, just an act, the same as they will act the role you are willingly paying them for. Then the Farang will think she's unresponsive and uninterested and cold after the experience was mechanical and not that he expected, HELLO!!!!!

 

Instead of taking advantage of their plight, sit down and have a conversation with them, try to get inside their head, not their pants, you will learn things about another human being and I can assure you, these small acts of empathy and kindness will pay off, I don't mean buying them a piece of chicken or a lottery ticket or yet another pair of shoes, I mean a deep meaningful conversation and willingness to understand and learn from them, let them walk away remembering your name, she may even recommend you to her friend, you know her, the stunner who wouldn't look at you normally. 

 

Many Farangs here or the sex tourists that come here  don't have a clue how to interact with the girls, they are willing to meet them for an ST or LT, then as soon as the girl leaves , after the money has been handed over, the Farang will often have pangs of guilt and self loathing, they will remember the days long ago, when they would have said " I'll never pay for it ", now they are paying for 'IT' , and the self esteem and ego takes yet another major blow, then they blame the girls, it's all their fault, you know they have already forgotten your name 5 minutes after seeing you, then the Farang will say ' Thai girls are only interested in money', can you blame them, they have just spent time with a boring Farang douchebag who didn't have a clue how to interact, and like any actress, they want paying for playing the role.

 

Males tend to put down Females who have had many sexual partners, unless they are the ones having sex with them at the time of course, then when it's all over. along comes the deep seated self loathing and self esteem issues, the blame game starts, you can't blame yourself for being weak and hopeless, so it's THEIR fault, blame them for your shortcomings and inability to have a real relationship based on mutual interests or understanding.

 

Let's face it guys, 99% of you ain't got a <deleted> clue. ????

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Broken Record

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Large areas of Thailand have virtually no nightlife as such, but one needs to actually visit them to know.

To learn there is no point visiting them?

[Bruno123]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Rubbish. I haven't seen a pimp in LOS since 1974.

What they do have are boyfriends that live off them, but that doesn't make them pimps.

I saw pimps in Phuket when I was there in '98. Not boyfriends, pimps.

[Bruno123]

18 minutes ago, Broken Record said:

 

Unless you are taking advantage of their situation ?

 

I'm sure by many of the responses here there is very little understanding about what really goes on, many Farangs have been to Thailand with a pocketful of money, splashed the cash and had a great time, couldn't wait to get back, always had money, were more than willing to part with some of that money to less fortunate human beings, conditional of course.

 

Many of the girls have deep emotional, psycological problems. but they put on an act of bravado, and it's exactly that, just an act, the same as they will act the role you are willingly paying them for. Then the Farang will think she's unresponsive and uninterested and cold after the experience was mechanical and not that he expected, HELLO!!!!!

 

Instead of taking advantage of their plight, sit down and have a conversation with them, try to get inside their head, not their pants, you will learn things about another human being and I can assure you, these small acts of empathy and kindness will pay off, I don't mean buying them a piece of chicken or a lottery ticket or yet another pair of shoes, I mean a deep meaningful conversation and willingness to understand and learn from them, let them walk away remembering your name, she may even recommend you to her friend, you know her, the stunner who wouldn't look at you normally. 

 

Many Farangs here or the sex tourists that come here  don't have a clue how to interact with the girls, they are willing to meet them for an ST or LT, then as soon as the girl leaves , after the money has been handed over, the Farang will often have pangs of guilt and self loathing, they will remember the days long ago, when they would have said " I'll never pay for it ", now they are paying for 'IT' , and the self esteem and ego takes yet another major blow, then they blame the girls, it's all their fault, you know they have already forgotten your name 5 minutes after seeing you, then the Farang will say ' Thai girls are only interested in money', can you blame them, they have just spent time with a boring Farang douchebag who didn't have a clue how to interact, and like any actress, they want paying for playing the role.

 

Males tend to put down Females who have had many sexual partners, unless they are the ones having sex with them at the time of course, then when it's all over. along comes the deep seated self loathing and self esteem issues, the blame game starts, you can't blame yourself for being weak and hopeless, so it's THEIR fault, blame them for your shortcomings and inability to have a real relationship based on mutual interests or understanding.

 

Let's face it guys, 99% of you ain't got a <deleted> clue. ????

 

To be fair there are a lot of women out there with exactly the same attitude as the men you describe. It's not a male phenomenon. 

We have the Golddiggers, the Fantasists, the Manipulators.....

[Hanuman2547]

I'm sure there are a number of them that can move online to sell their services.  Those that are a little brighter can set up a very good system and do well for themselves.  They may never move back to the bars if their business takes off if and when the entertainment areas re-open.

[Broken Record]

2 minutes ago, Hanuman2547 said:

I'm sure there are a number of them that can move online to sell their services.  Those that are a little brighter can set up a very good system and do well for themselves.  They may never move back to the bars if their business takes off if and when the entertainment areas re-open.

Exactly.