Thailand eases COVID-19 restrictions - but only for people who are vaccinated

[elgenon]

On 8/28/2021 at 4:44 PM, superal said:

       In the UK I asked a guy waiting to be served in a pharmacy " Why are you not wearing your mask ? " ( shop poster requested all who enter to wear a mask ) , he chuckled and fobbed me off .  The assistant asked him for proof of non conformity , he then pulled a mask from his pocket and put it on . This was a senior man who must have seen the large notice outside of the shop but chose to ignore it and my polite reminder , So no excuse , should the police be called and have him fined ? None of us like wearing masks but why be an antagonist ? 

It's a difficult burden for the owner of a small business to have to check people for vaccinations, and to eject those who don't have them and won't leave. 

The only people getting really sick are those who are not inoculated. So the poor worn out, tired, depressed healthcare workers are burdened with these freedom lovers. 

Just read that space launches in America are being affected because the medical profession is sucking up the available liquid oxygen.

I remember when polio was a scourge and people had no problem getting vaxed against that.

A 4 year old just died of Covid. A weeks-old baby got it. So sad.

[TooMuchTime]

4 minutes ago, elgenon said:

It's a difficult burden for the owner of a small business to have to check people for vaccinations, and to eject those who don't have them and won't leave. 

The only people getting really sick are those who are not inoculated. So the poor worn out, tired, depressed healthcare workers are burdened with these freedom lovers. 

Just read that space launches in America are being affected because the medical profession is sucking up the available liquid oxygen.

I remember when polio was a scourge and people had no problem getting vaxed against that.

A 4 year old just died of Covid. A weeks-old baby got it. So sad.

Damn those stupid freedoms.

How lethal is polio compared to COVID?.  What is the likelihood of surviving polio in comparison to COVID?  False equivalence.

A 4 year old died but 1000000's of others have lived.  There will be deaths at all ages and it is better to look at population statistics instead of one data point.

Edited August 30, 2021 by TooMuchTime

[Skeptic7]

10 hours ago, Molly Malone said:

open the gyms, YOU IDIOTS!!!

And swimming pools, you dolts! 

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, TooMuchTime said:

Damn those stupid freedoms.

How lethal is polio compared to COVID?.  What is the likelihood of surviving polio in comparison to COVID?  False equivalence.

A 4 year old died but 1000000's of others have lived.  There will be deaths at all ages and it is better to look at population statistics instead of one data point.

Over 4 million dead from Covid.

 

No lack of Covid Deniers in the US whose last words were “I don’t have Covid”.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Danderman123

[Kirb46Lam]

And the people registered for Moderna earlier this year 

Now knowing it may be available sometime next year. 

Whole family registered and waiting 

 

I guess no going out for us 

 

Do we get a Moderna Waiting card 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Kirb46Lam

[TooMuchTime]

27 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Over 4 million dead from Covid.

 

No lack of Covid Deniers in the US whose last words were “I don’t have Covid”.

I am not denying covid.  I am advocate of knowing your risk and acting appropriately.  None of my actions include closing everything down as a blanket approach.

I propose at risk take the vaccine and take other precautions to protect themselves that does not hinder the rest of the population.   Everyone else, continue on as normal.

I base actions off of data, not histrionic one liners.

Edited August 31, 2021 by TooMuchTime

[Danderman123]

Just now, TooMuchTime said:

I am not denying covid.  I am advocate of knowing your risk and acting appropriately.  None of my actions include closing everything down as a blanket approach.

I propose at risk take the vaccine and take other precautions to protect themselves that does not hinder the rest of the population.   Everyone else, continue on as normal.

You are at risk. 

[TooMuchTime]

Just now, Danderman123 said:

You are at risk. 

Very minimal risk.  Using CDC data I have a >99.75% chance of survival from covid in my age group.  It is likely greater than that number since I am not overweight, don't have diabetes or hypertension which are the top commodities from people who die from covid.  I have a greater chance of dying in a motorbike accident.  Risk is very minimal and I will continue on as normal.

[Danderman123]

35 minutes ago, TooMuchTime said:

Very minimal risk.  Using CDC data I have a >99.75% chance of survival from covid in my age group.  It is likely greater than that number since I am not overweight, don't have diabetes or hypertension which are the top commodities from people who die from covid.  I have a greater chance of dying in a motorbike accident.  Risk is very minimal and I will continue on as normal.

You don’t seem to understand the risks.

 

If you live in Thailand, you are at greater risk than if you lived in a Western country, due to high number of unrecorded infections. 
 

Another factor is that CDC does not split out infections from Delta.

 

Another issue is Long Covid.

 

Your calculations won’t protect you very much.

[TooMuchTime]

11 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

You don’t seem to understand the risks.

 

If you live in Thailand, you are at greater risk than if you lived in a Western country, due to high number of unrecorded infections. 
 

Another factor is that CDC does not split out infections from Delta.

 

Another issue is Long Covid.

 

Your calculations won’t protect you very much.

99.75% is filtered date from when delta was the dominant strain in the US.  Delta actually has a lower death rate for the elderly (nearly identical for <50) when looking at CDC data .  "long covid" is very general and I don't see any sources saying it is highly prevalent with life altering disability.  "Long" also isn't defined very well since COVID hasn't even been around for 2 years yet...

My calculations don't protect me, it only tells me my risk.  My protection comes from my age and healthy lifestyle which has been statistically proven to allow me to be better off.

The reality is much different than fearmongering articles you may be reading.

Edited August 31, 2021 by TooMuchTime

[DrJack54]

This thread WAS about requirements to be vaccinated for changes in restrictions.

Dine in etc. Since then those requirements have been rescinded.

End of. 

 

As usual morphed into discussion about vaccination. Irrelevant.

[248900_1469958220]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

You are at risk. 

If you are vaccinated Danderman, good for you, you are not at risk....They have now SCRAPPED the first of probably many requirements because they are NOT viable. Enjoy your vaccination status if you have had it, wear a special arm band, pink if you like. I may be sitting near you in that restaurant.......smiling, with krapao in my teeth

[Will B Good]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

You are at risk. 

And, more importantly, putting others at risk if they 'carry on as normal'

[The Cipher]

3 hours ago, TooMuchTime said:

There will be deaths at all ages and it is better to look at population statistics instead of one data point.

3 hours ago, TooMuchTime said:

I propose at risk take the vaccine and take other precautions to protect themselves that does not hinder the rest of the population.   Everyone else, continue on as normal.

You are right about this, but I've realized that it's a surprisingly difficult point for others to accept. Regular people just aren't used to thinking in percentages.

 

And sure, we can complain about that, but the truth is that complaining isn't really helpful to actually solving the problem.

 

Practically, it's better to just accept that the majority view carries policy consequence. Yeah, your quoted solution above would probably work out fine for societies if everyone bought in and just accepted it. But the reality is that, based on the messaging of the past two years, many people aren't prepared to accept it. You can see that in some of the other responses to your comments above.

 

So what's the right thing to do? Get vaccinated. You may or may not feel that you need the vaccine personally, but every incremental person vaccinated helps us move closer to the herd immunity threshold. Being right is fun and all, but ultimately we should really just want to put this entire thing behind us. Right now getting vaccinated is a low risk, low effort act, and it seems like the most direct path towards getting back to a normal world.

[teatree]

9 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

You are right about this, but I've realized that it's a surprisingly difficult point for others to accept. Regular people just aren't used to thinking in percentages.

 

And sure, we can complain about that, but the truth is that complaining isn't really helpful to actually solving the problem.

 

Practically, it's better to just accept that the majority view carries policy consequence. Yeah, your quoted solution above would probably work out fine for societies if everyone bought in and just accepted it. But the reality is that, based on the messaging of the past two years, many people aren't prepared to accept it. You can see that in some of the other responses to your comments above.

 

So what's the right thing to do? Get vaccinated. You may or may not feel that you need the vaccine personally, but every incremental person vaccinated helps us move closer to the herd immunity threshold. Being right is fun and all, but ultimately we should really just want to put this entire thing behind us. Right now getting vaccinated is a low risk, low effort act, and it seems like the most direct path towards getting back to a normal world.

What about people who have recovered from covid?  They have a more robust immunity than the current vaccine which wanes after only a few months.  Surely there is no need for them to be vaxed.

 

The problem with vaccinating the entire population is that it will drive mutations, as the virus evolves to the changing environmental pressures (which will inevitably be eroniously blamed on the unvaxed) .  We should have vaxed the most vulnerable and left everyone else that has a greater than 99% chance of survival.

[teatree]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

You don’t seem to understand the risks.

 

If you live in Thailand, you are at greater risk than if you lived in a Western country, due to high number of unrecorded infections. 
 

Another factor is that CDC does not split out infections from Delta.

 

Another issue is Long Covid.

 

Your calculations won’t protect you very much.

People very often don't rationally think about the risks.  They are pumped full of fear by the media and they are fuelled by emotion.

 

A friend/acquaintance of mine came up to me one day, visibly panicked, saying that the construction workers in the lot next to his apartment were not wearing masks and that he was worried that he could catch covid and asked me what he should do.  He had shut all window etc and was wearing a mask, but wanted to know if I thought he should move somewhere else until they had finished.  Yet, he happily gets on a motorbike taxi to work without a second thought.

 

Around 20,000 people die on Thai roads each year.  Since the start of the covid crisis (1 year and 5 months?) a total of around 10,000 have died of covid.

[The Cipher]

14 minutes ago, teatree said:

What about people who have recovered from covid?  They have a more robust immunity than the current vaccine which wanes after only a few months.  Surely there is no need for them to be vaxed.

The problem with vaccinating the entire population is that it will drive mutations, as the virus evolves to the changing environmental pressures (which will inevitably be eroniously blamed on the unvaxed) .  We should have vaxed the most vulnerable and left everyone else that has a greater than 99% chance of survival.

I don't have the scientific background to comment on this. I don't know the answers to specific medical questions about the vaccines, and I'd rather not accidentally spread misinformation.

 

What I do know is that those societies that have reached a certain vaccination threshold have seen critical cases decline enough to feel comfortable loosening restrictions and move towards full reopening. So politically at least, vaccines rates are seen as the answer. I just want normal life to resume ASAP, and if vaccine saturation is going to be the generally accepted benchmark to get us there, then I'm going to cheerlead for vaccines a little bit.

[Danderman123]

3 hours ago, teatree said:

People very often don't rationally think about the risks.  They are pumped full of fear by the media and they are fuelled by emotion.

 

A friend/acquaintance of mine came up to me one day, visibly panicked, saying that the construction workers in the lot next to his apartment were not wearing masks and that he was worried that he could catch covid and asked me what he should do.  He had shut all window etc and was wearing a mask, but wanted to know if I thought he should move somewhere else until they had finished.  Yet, he happily gets on a motorbike taxi to work without a second thought.

 

Around 20,000 people die on Thai roads each year.  Since the start of the covid crisis (1 year and 5 months?) a total of around 10,000 have died of covid.

This is a classic case of misunderstanding risk.

 

All epidemics start small. In the case of Covid, there were people who disregarded the risk, because only small numbers were infected.

 

as infections increased, nations began to impose restrictions to minimize the spread of infections. Then, we ran into the quandary where successful lockdowns provoked people to argue that lockdowns weren’t necessary because the Lockdown had mitigated community spread. Yeah, that is really stupid.

 

thailand imposes restrictions at the drop of a hat, but that minimizes Covid deaths.

 

BTW, most of the 10,000 dead have died in the last month or so. That’s a much higher death rate than highway accidents.

[Danderman123]

3 hours ago, teatree said:

What about people who have recovered from covid?  They have a more robust immunity than the current vaccine which wanes after only a few months.  Surely there is no need for them to be vaxed.

 

The problem with vaccinating the entire population is that it will drive mutations, as the virus evolves to the changing environmental pressures (which will inevitably be eroniously blamed on the unvaxed) .  We should have vaxed the most vulnerable and left everyone else that has a greater than 99% chance of survival.

Wow. How much misinformation can you pack into a post?

 

the best way to promote mutations is to vaccinate a small portion of the population, as you suggest. 

[teatree]

28 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Wow. How much misinformation can you pack into a post?

 

the best way to promote mutations is to vaccinate a small portion of the population, as you suggest. 

The best way to promote mutants would be to slowly roll out the vaccine (9 months in and some countries barely have 50% vaccinated) and at very different rates in different countries.  Which is exactly what is happening now.

[The Cipher]

Quote

Then, we ran into the quandary where successful lockdowns provoked people to argue that lockdowns weren’t necessary because the Lockdown had mitigated community spread. Yeah, that is really stupid.

As a person who has argued against lockdowns myself, I want to make it clear that the quoted comment is not an accurate representation of my (and at least some other lockdown sceptics') views.

 

My argument against lockdowns isn't that they aren't effective at reducing spread, my belief is that they are. The argument is that if we take the actual outcome data for Covid cases and interpolate it across our populations, there is a very strong case to be made that the cost of lockdowns are disproportionate to the threat that we face from Covid.

 

The choice to lock down - and my opposition to that choice - are based on differences in values judgments, rather than any kind of real necessity of lockdowns to preserve the viability of our societies or species. And that's fine. I'm not here to argue that philosophical point. I just wrote this comment in response to the quoted comment, to show that while anti-lockdown positions might make some folks feel uncomfortable, they aren't necessarily hurr durr conclusions with no thought put into them.

[elgenon]

On 8/30/2021 at 4:47 PM, TooMuchTime said:

Damn those stupid freedoms.

How lethal is polio compared to COVID?.  What is the likelihood of surviving polio in comparison to COVID?  False equivalence.

A 4 year old died but 1000000's of others have lived.  There will be deaths at all ages and it is better to look at population statistics instead of one data point.

You're right of course, only 4 people have dies of Covid in the States. And over 200,00 have died of polio.

[jacko45k]

On 8/31/2021 at 8:16 AM, Danderman123 said:

Over 4 million dead from Covid.

 

No lack of Covid Deniers in the US whose last words were “I don’t have Covid”.

I still recall seeing Alex Crawford of Sky News (UK) being abused by a spitting mad USA woman because Alex had the effrontery to wear a mask in her State.....Alex tried to tell  her she was recently on a Covid ward and things were for real... I then realized we were in trouble.....

Edited September 2, 2021 by jacko45k

[thierryviteau]

Already available in Thailand ❤️

 

 

[cdemundo]

On 8/27/2021 at 8:03 PM, Danderman123 said:

We have seen far too many anti-vaxxers perish this year - from stupidity.

Meh.

[cdemundo]

On 8/31/2021 at 12:54 AM, teatree said:

The best way to promote mutants would be to slowly roll out the vaccine (9 months in and some countries barely have 50% vaccinated) and at very different rates in different countries.  Which is exactly what is happening now.

Why is that the case?

It doesn't seem obvious why that would be.

[cdemundo]

On 8/30/2021 at 8:41 PM, teatree said:

What about people who have recovered from covid?  They have a more robust immunity than the current vaccine which wanes after only a few months.  Surely there is no need for them to be vaxed.

 

The problem with vaccinating the entire population is that it will drive mutations, as the virus evolves to the changing environmental pressures (which will inevitably be eroniously blamed on the unvaxed) .  We should have vaxed the most vulnerable and left everyone else that has a greater than 99% chance of survival.

"The problem with vaccinating the entire population is that it will drive mutations, "

This is not true and has been responded to in the past.

Mutations occur at random in replication of RNA and DNA.

The rates of mutation are not affected by vaccination, the absolute number of mutations increases with the number of replications.

Selection pressure from vaccines may lead to differential survival of mutated viruses but it does not drive mutations.

[TooMuchTime]

3 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

"The problem with vaccinating the entire population is that it will drive mutations, "

This is not true and has been responded to in the past.

Mutations occur at random in replication of RNA and DNA.

The rates of mutation are not affected by vaccination, the absolute number of mutations increases with the number of replications.

Selection pressure from vaccines may lead to differential survival of mutated viruses but it does not drive mutations.

Should be more worried about a leaky vaccine such as the current covid ones.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/tthis-chicken-vaccine-makes-virus-dangerous

 

Vaccine is pretty terrible if you need boosters within 6 months.

Vaccines with years of research typically last a lifetime or decades.

[CharlieH]

Post with link to bangkok post removed.

[cdemundo]

10 hours ago, TooMuchTime said:

Should be more worried about a leaky vaccine such as the current covid ones.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/tthis-chicken-vaccine-makes-virus-dangerous

 

Vaccine is pretty terrible if you need boosters within 6 months.

Vaccines with years of research typically last a lifetime or decades.

The COVID vaccines are not seeing a large number of breakthrough infections, chance of a breakthrough is estimated at between 1/5000 and 1/10,000 in the most recent estimates.

 

The virus most nearly similar to COVID is the flu. 

Both are respiratory viruses and are spread in similar ways.

Both mutate frequently.

Flu requires a new vaccination each year even after years of research.

 

There is no reason to believe that anyone will need a booster every six months.

That is quite an extrapolation when there has not yet been a booster.

 

Other vaccines require multiple inoculations.

HepA 2 shots, 10 years.

HepB 2, 3, or 4 shots and 10 years efficacy, possibly more with full series.

Polio 4 shots are recommended.

Tetanus 1 shot, lasts 10 years.

Zoster 2 shots, lifetime ?

 So 2nd and 3rd shots are not rare, and we don't know how long protection may last after a 3rd COVID shot.