When Did It Stop Being OK TO Disagree??

[canthai55]

1 hour ago, sucit said:

This is actually a very good question.

 

Assume we are discussing in a place like the United States for clarity’s sake…

 

You can always take away rights to save lives or do “good” in some way. I don’t understand why people do not realize this. There could be a serial hacker stealing funds from accounts in the USA, and to catch them, we’d all have to give up our right to illegal searches and seizures let’s say for argument’s sake. Well, it does not matter one bit we could save a bunch of people from criminals by losing the 4th amendment right. The point of it being a right is that it gets upheld even in the tough times, death, tragedy or all hell breaking loose be damned. 
 

You see, that’s how that works. Constitutional rights stay that way in the tough times… in fact during those tough times is the most important periods when we need to maintain them. 
 

The only entities who logically should want right infringement are those who would benefit, which would be governments. Citizens have to be absolutely mind <deleted> bonkers to release their rights. That’s what we see now, and that is how you know everyone is <deleted> crazy and they sure as hell should not be listened to, for their own good in the end. 
 

To answer the question, these are not disagreements. They are one citizen saying “I want this right taken away from everyone because I’m afraid”. Well, you don’t get to say that. My right is protected constitutionally. So yeah those are essentially fighting words, because if enough sheep think like you, we all lose. You literally are not allowed to do that. It’s not a disagreement but it’s one person wants to violate the rights of others because of their beliefs. They need to follow their own beliefs in a way not to infringe upon those of others. 

Your user name could be succinct - good post

[canthai55]

I have NEVER heard of fundamental rights being curtailed or suspended - and then some time in the future restored.

When they are gone, they are gone for good - until Revolution happens

[zzaa09]

3 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

And how would things change if you censored, cancelled, blocked and banned those who hold differing views, different facts or interpretations?

 

So what you are saying is that scientific discourse only arrives at the truth precisely because the widest possible variety of interpretations, facts and opinions are allowed.

 

If scientists were censored then progress would be impossible. Same everywhere. Censorship is the enemy of progress. Cancel culture is a regression to previous dark ages.

 

Everyone should have to tolerate all differing views, unless there is clear evidence of direct and specific imminent harm by a particular view, for instance, which is very, very rarely the case. I mean Roblok may not like anti-vaxxers, is he personally directly and specifically harmed by anyone on here expressing anti-vaxxer views? Not really. Unless he were to walk into a room with that person who expressed the anti-vaxx view and that person was infected and Roblok were close enough to breath in his aerosols.

 

We can all be a little over the top regarding potential dangers.

We should always keep in mind that science and science communities, by their very nature, exist to support an established agenda. Though, might not be so much evident by the fields of hard sciences - but yields highly throughout soft science communities. 

[Tanomazu]

2 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

We should always keep in mind that science and science communities, by their very nature, exist to support an established agenda. Though, might not be so much evident by the fields of hard sciences - but yields highly throughout soft science communities. 

That's absolutely correct, one need only remember the 1940s to see how science can be used to support a political agenda.

[ericbj]

Free speech, yes.
Today's 'facts' are tomorrow's fallacies.
But slander, libel, and downright rudeness should not be included in 'free speech'.

[gk10012001]

On 9/16/2021 at 5:18 AM, RJRS1301 said:

Robust debate and delivered respectfully addressing the subject matter not the individual. However some people see disagreement with ideas,  as a personal rejection.

Also owning your own viewpoint and listening to a counterpoint, is always good.

 

 

You got that right.  It is the same at work.  As a test engineer,  I usually pass things, but sometimes for various reasons some tests fail.  So a test problem report has to be written and submitted.  Sometimes analysis and investigtion shows that the test procedure was done incorrectly.  Sometimes investigation shows that the test procedure was done correctly,  but the procedure itself has incorrect steps.  Sometimes the system works as designed, but then we discover that the requirement it was built to was wrong.  And lastly sometimes we find that the software or hardware simply was not built correctly.  Along the way, some of the engineers get mean and vicious and don't seem to understand that the tester was just critiquing the work, not the person.  Heck, the system is so large the tester had no idea what engineers were involved anyway. Egos get in the way.

[bobbin]

2 hours ago, canthai55 said:

"Oh yes the glory of America, how could we forget since you American people never shut up about it

Here's US history in a nutshell :

 

1)millions of pounds invested in new British colonies

1. 1.  

2)France tries to invade but Britain defends its colonies at the cost of 120,000 lives in the world's first truly global war

 

3) ungrateful colonists refuse to contribute to the costs of this war despite the wealth of the land

 

4) US propaganda brands king George a tyrant - the King who ended slavery and spent 40% of Britain's GDP buying their freedom

5) US revolts and is on the verge of losing its own revolutionary war until the French intervene

 

6) Britain occupied by total war with Napoleon and has its real armies on the continent

 

7) Britain cuts its losses and goes on to defeat Napoleon and restore the sovereignty of the nations of Europe

8)US claims victory and begins its life with a national attitude of arrogance

 

9) US continues slavery for another 60 years and has to have a civil war to resolve the matter

10) claims to be the greatest country in the world despite the fact that they established their nation on millions of pounds of stolen property, slave labour and genocide of the natives

11) does little to help France during 2 world wars despite France being instrumental in their revolution

12) content to let Britain and Europe suffer until Japan drags them into the war 13) goes on to completely mess up the world order for the next 6 decades

14) society starts to crumble, many live in poverty and social unrest plagues the nation.Yet it still screeches hysterically about its manifest destiny

15) world at large getting sick of their <deleted>".

Wow.. I could not find a simple emoji to reply with..

 

The British view..

 

Trouble is, each and every one of the above statements is true..

[robblok]

15 minutes ago, bobbin said:

Wow.. I could not find a simple emoji to reply with..

 

The British view..

 

Trouble is, each and every one of the above statements is true..

They might be true, bit but can be written down in an other way too. I mean the Brits were a an empire and were not good guys. They were there for themselves and not for the people. The raped and plundered countries taking their wealth. Just like all the other countries did. I have a huge problem with the Brits always thinking they were good guys they were not. They were just like the Dutch and other colonial powers. In it for their own good. 

 

Especially number 10, i mean the Brits raped and stole a lot too. Held slaves sold slaves. Their wealth was build (like all other colonial powers) over the back of others. I mean damm what they accuse the US of they did themselves too. Just to show I am not bias the Dutch did it too. Funny to critisize others while being so blind to their own mistakes.

Edited September 17, 2021 by robblok

[zzaa09]

9 minutes ago, robblok said:

They might be true, bit but can be written down in an other way too. I mean the Brits were a an empire and were not good guys. They were there for themselves and not for the people. The raped and plundered countries taking their wealth. Just like all the other countries did. I have a huge problem with the Brits always thinking they were good guys they were not. They were just like the Dutch and other colonial powers. In it for their own good. 

 

Especially number 10, i mean the Brits raped and stole a lot too. Held slaves sold slaves. Their wealth was build (like all other colonial powers) over the back of others. I mean damm what they accuse the US of they did themselves too. Just to show I am not bias the Dutch did it too. Funny to critisize others while being so blind to their own mistakes.

An historic race to claim the title of most exceptional and fanciful. 

With little to show of real influence and contributions.

[Kanada]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It also means that any like me that think social media is evil vile and would never go on face thingy are at a disadvantage even though they may be really good at the potential job.

 

As for "personality", I'm sure anyone can pretend to be anything they want from behind a screen in mummy's basement.

 

Perhaps it's changed, but when I was young, people started at the bottom and worked their way up in occupations. They didn't get to start half way up the ladder because they were good at posting stuff on stupid social thingys.

 

BTW, I don't get how people of working age have enough time to go on line long enough to get 50,000 "followers". I was too busy actually working when young to be on the internet all hours of the day.

“Perhaps it’s changed”? Its changed since last week and our kids generation don’t have any trouble keeping up with that but I’m afraid our generation does! I was reasonably tech savvy but just enough to be a dozen moves behind all the time….stressful but that’s the beauty of leaving it all behind!

And yes you would be at a great disadvantage…especially if you referred to social media as that “social thingy” or “face thingy”????

 

[whoppee]

2 hours ago, bobbin said:

Wow.. I could not find a simple emoji to reply with..

 

The British view..

 

Trouble is, each and every one of the above statements is true..

Yes - all colonial powers guilty 

Not so many 1939 to 1941

Edited September 17, 2021 by whoppee

[Rampant Rabbit]

9 hours ago, sucit said:

beliefs

you see its always "beliefs" beliefs  mean nothing.

[Rampant Rabbit]

7 hours ago, robblok said:

Especially number 10, i mean the Brits raped and stole a lot too. Held slaves sold slaves

Just  like th African tribes themselves did before any Europeans arrived, then again Britain invented so  much of the modern world you might want to thank them, the list of inventions is quite staggering, things  that really changed the world  ask any Thai girl the value of an ATM for starters????

Its the nature of the beast to conquer going back since earliest tribes

[starky]

23 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Forum

a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

 

I do not see this happening much - if at all.

And the argument that you are "forcing" publishers to post your reply or opinion is a nice way to circumvent censorship. Nice try Tho'

Particularly on this forum in regards to certain people or topics are completely censored.

[brianthainess]

On 9/16/2021 at 4:45 PM, Antonymous said:

This cartoon appeared in the Jokes forum recently. It isn't funny at all, but it does portray quite cleverly how people become partisan, usually through propaganda and manipulation.

 

I disagree it is funny.

[robblok]

8 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Just  like th African tribes themselves did before any Europeans arrived, then again Britain invented so  much of the modern world you might want to thank them, the list of inventions is quite staggering, things  that really changed the world  ask any Thai girl the value of an ATM for starters????

Its the nature of the beast to conquer going back since earliest tribes

That was not the point but not surprising that you don't get it. Your one of those Brits that thinks that colonization was a good thing. It is just theft. It was not unusual as the Dutch the Spanish French ect all did it. The point was the guy who flamed the US accused the US of holding slaves while the Brits sold them and so on in the past. So just an other bias Brit. If you accuse an other country of something better be sure that your history is clean. That was the point.

[Kanada]

I think genuinely smart people look for answers from people smarter than themselves.

Only ignorant people believe their guess is as good as anyone else’s!

[Will B Good]

6 minutes ago, Kanada said:

I think genuinely smart people look for answers from people smarter than themselves.

Only ignorant people believe their guess is as good as anyone else’s!

That would be my guess as well.

[Rampant Rabbit]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

That was not the point but not surprising that you don't get it. Your one of those Brits that thinks that colonization was a good thing.

Ha  funny you see you really cant judge a peron by their  posts if you think that, they ALL did it including the Africans the only difference was the Africans  didnt get around the world as  quickly as Euro nations.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Rampant Rabbit

[rumak]

19 hours ago, Kanada said:

I hate to say it but after reading Thai Visa opinions for a month or so I haven’t seen a lot of responsibility or dependable opinions!

Maybe that’s just me and my opinions tho’….

 

sorry,   i haven't been posting lately........ because my insightful  opinions are often deleted.

Edited September 18, 2021 by rumak

[rumak]

11 hours ago, starky said:

Particularly on this forum in regards to certain people or topics are completely censored.

I would hazard a guess why........... but it would be sure to be censored   ????

[Kanada]

24 minutes ago, rumak said:

I would hazard a guess why........... but it would be sure to be censored   ????

If you aren’t getting fined , suspended or censored maybe you’re just not trying hard enough????

[rumak]

25 minutes ago, Kanada said:

If you aren’t getting fined , suspended or censored maybe you’re just not trying hard enough????

believe me,  there is someone just dying to get rid of me  ????    (jealousy is a btch)

[sirineou]

After the birth of my fourth sister I realise that I was seriously outnumbered, and from the look on my father's face that that any hope for reinforcements in the form of a another brother, was in vane. 

It was at that point that I decided it was ok to stop disagreeing

.It is a strategy that has allowed me to live long enough and pass on my genes, 

Unfortunately it was a daughter???? 

Now I just assume a fetal position and play dead. I read some place that they don't eat the dead. ????

[ozimoron]

On 9/16/2021 at 8:02 PM, xylophone said:

I would gladly have a discussion with anyone and will put forward my points of view, but where the poster doesn't have the intelligence to see that what they are posting is absolute rubbish, proven beyond doubt by all and sundry, then it's not worth it.

There's actually method in this madness. I always wondered how anyone could be so loony as to promulgate conspiracy theories which were patently impossible to believe. Then I  read an article which explained it. The idea is that the more wacky a theory is the more difficult it is to argue against. This absolves them from the social responsibility of having to justify their points of view. The big lie and the vaccine microchips are cases in point.

[zzaa09]

On 9/17/2021 at 4:56 AM, ericbj said:

Free speech, yes.
Today's 'facts' are tomorrow's fallacies.
But slander, libel, and downright rudeness should not be included in 'free speech'.

Yet, shouldn't the already warm and fuzzy ideologies of said free speech and independent thought be secure with itself by offering a character that's tolerant and balanced by it's very nature. 

[ozimoron]

On 9/17/2021 at 9:10 PM, canthai55 said:

I have NEVER heard of fundamental rights being curtailed or suspended - and then some time in the future restored.

When they are gone, they are gone for good - until Revolution happens

Wrong. The wartime internment camps are an example of a temporary removal of rights.

[ozimoron]

On 9/17/2021 at 9:11 PM, zzaa09 said:

We should always keep in mind that science and science communities, by their very nature, exist to support an established agenda. Though, might not be so much evident by the fields of hard sciences - but yields highly throughout soft science communities. 

That established agenda is the survival of our species. Remove science and we are doomed. Climate change is a case in point.

[ericbj]

"A system that no one believes in any more."
- Tucker Carlson is out of touch with many ASEANnow members, some of whom may be irritated by this interview.
But on the subject of free speech it is informative, yet brief.
https://rumble.com/vl3eot-my-segment-with-tucker-carlson-on-my-move-to-rumble-and-growing-online-cens.html

[zzaa09]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

That established agenda is the survival of our species. Remove science and we are doomed. Climate change is a case in point.

Perhaps nature has a different agenda. 

A decent and selective cleansing of our kind might be most beneficial for the environs.