Floods - what's the answer?

[1FinickyOne]

More Dutch people

[chilly07]

Attenuation! All new and refurbished construction to have underground storage either on site or in the road to hold 1/60 year flooding with overflow to main drains

[sawadee1947]

The proper answer is...... a warning.

Listen to the weather forecast and help yourself ????

[Pdavies99]

Simple really....look at Los Angeles Floodways.

[tonray]

2 hours ago, Pdavies99 said:

Simple really....look at Los Angeles Floodways.

Except have to test them with 3 X the rainfall because that is the factor between Bangkok and LA

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, Pdavies99 said:

Simple really....look at Los Angeles Floodways.

What about hurricanes and earthquakes.

[scubascuba3]

10 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Don't build on flood plains, and if you must, build on pillars.

Not sure why you think floods will be worse in the future, they seem the same as always to me.

Building on pillars seems a no brainer to me but they seem to prefer mopping up the <deleted> from the floods

[big dendrobenaes]

need to excavate all dams deeper....and reservoirs......

[josephbloggs]

7 hours ago, Pdavies99 said:

Simple really....look at Los Angeles Floodways.

Why?

 

LA has about 373mm average rainfall.  Bangkok around 1,500mm - more than four times as much.  LA could not begin to cope and would flood badly with Bangkok's rainfall.   Simple really. 

Why should we look at LA again?

[josephbloggs]

54 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Why?

 

LA has about 373mm average rainfall.  Bangkok around 1,500mm - more than four times as much.  LA could not begin to cope and would flood badly with Bangkok's rainfall.   Simple really. 

Why should we look at LA again?

Bangkok could cope with 373mm in its sleep.

And even with that low amount of rainfall and their super floodways it can still flood:

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2019/01/16/flooding-long-beach-seal-beach/

So, again, why do we need to look to LA again?

Edited September 30, 2021 by josephbloggs

[bangkokbonecollector]

Yup, how we will be building ours, about 2 metres flooring to ceiling.

[bangkokbonecollector]

On 9/30/2021 at 12:11 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Building on pillars seems a no brainer to me but they seem to prefer mopping up the <deleted> from the floods

The media would have us thinking otherwise of course. They made the recent Greek wildfires seem like they next happened before. The granny with the fire behind her was an eco-warriors wet dream. Not to say I am not for using greener energy etc but they really do spin it hard nowadays.

[bangkokbonecollector]

A massive man-made problem is building more subterranean buildings. This takes out a lot of soil which would usually soak up some of the water. This is why around Belle Grand Condo, all those massive office buildings, the MRT and Central Rama 9, you get those massive floods which carry cars away.

[sirineou]

On 9/29/2021 at 2:53 PM, Crossy said:

 

Which is why our home is a "bungalow on sticks" although we do have a downstairs kitchen and workshop.

You are being modest, I have seen pictures of your house and it is hardly "a bungalow on sticks" LOL

Same here (not the modest part LOL)

Actually it's design was inspired after seeing pictures of your house on this forum. though is a lot smaller. being that it's only the two of us. 

Our house is built the same, even though  our area never floods . Basically a  "bungalow on sticks" with a bathroom, a downstairs kitchen and a room that I use for mostly storage, and work shop. 

This type of erangnents not only provides a solution to flooding but has many other advantages here in Thailand.

Its a shame that many have gone away from this traditional design, and build these new European designs that take over most of the property, and provide few outside spaces,  

Under the house is a nice, cool area to hung out, a place to park the car, Airflow under, helps cool the house, keeps creatures out of the main house upstairs. A good design for Thai living IMO   Plus the balcony provided a good vantage point to keep an eye on those pesky  neighbors, and throw water balloons at annoying visitors downstairs.????

  

[zzaa09]

6 minutes ago, sirineou said:

You are being modest, I have seen pictures of your house and it is hardly "a bungalow on sticks" LOL

Same here (not the modest part LOL)

Actually it's design was inspired after seeing pictures of your house on this forum. though is a lot smaller. being that it's only the two of us. 

Our house is built the same, even though  our area never floods . Basically a  "bungalow on sticks" with a bathroom, a downstairs kitchen and a room that I use for mostly storage, and work shop. 

This type of erangnents not only provides a solution to flooding but has many other advantages here in Thailand.

Its a shame that many have gone away from this traditional design, and build these new European designs that take over most of the property, and provide few outside spaces,  

Under the house is a nice, cool area to hung out, a place to park the car, Airflow under, helps cool the house, keeps creatures out of the main house upstairs. A good design for Thai living IMO   Plus the balcony provided a good vantage point to keep an eye on those pesky  neighbors, and throw water balloons at annoying visitors downstairs.????

  

Clever Farang.????

Wonder where you got these design ideals from......

[Crossy]

@sirineou Nice, very nice! ???? 

[Crossy]

10 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

Clever Farang.????

Wonder where you got these design ideals from......

 

Copying and adapting what the locals have been doing for centuries is always the best way to go. Nothing clever about it.

 

The reasons that the locals built like they did are still valid today (maybe not keeping the buffalo underneath). Shade, airflow, high ceilings all work just the same in modern materials as they did in wood.

[zzaa09]

As long as we're showing off Thai copy-cat models in not such a humble manner - pics below, second home in Sukhothai.

 

Built similar patterns while years in Surin and then again in Phichit.

Traditional designs are the only practical way to go. 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by zzaa09

[MRToMRT]

Trying to defeat mother nature is a hard task, frought with failures. She will win the end.

[Crossy]

4 minutes ago, MRToMRT said:

Trying to defeat mother nature is a hard task, frought with failures. She will win the end.

 

Every, single, time!

 

Always best to work with nature not against her.

[zzaa09]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Every, single, time!

 

Always best to work with nature not against her.

Spot on. If we could only get the human collective on board.

Edited October 2, 2021 by zzaa09

[sirineou]

35 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

As long as we're showing off Thai copy-cat models in not such a humble manner - pics below, second home in Sukhothai.

 

Built similar patterns while years in Surin and then again in Phichit.

Traditional designs are the only practical way to go. 

 

 

 

 

I apologize for not being more humble, but as the country song says

"It's hard to humble when you are perfect in every way"

Very nice home, I am jealous, . 

I would love something in wood  like your, 30 years with the carpenters union in NYC have installed a love for wood in me that is organic. The main reason I went with concrete is that I am almost 20 years older than my wife, and I know that I will pass a lot sooner than she is,  so I did not want to saddle  her with the maintenance of wood when I was no longer around.

Not only in biology but also in every system There is an evolutionary process , where unsuccessful systems are weeded out and  successful systems are adopted more and more , in essence reproduce, and become prevalent.

  Lately technology has allowed  us to circumvent this natural selection of ideas and depend on forced  technology for solutions that work against nature, . This stop gap solutions only work as long as we can maintain these technologies, and nature does not develop ways to defeat them.

  Nature , like a tiger in the zoo enclosure, is constantly   probing the walls that try to keep het out, It it always a matter of time until she finds the weakness.

There is wisdom in traditional solutions, and  as also said by other in this thread,  always smart to work with nature rather than against it.  

 

Edited October 3, 2021 by sirineou
typo

[matta]

I think, many years ago they asked for help from the Dutch who came up with a solution,
but apparently this was not to the liking of certain wealthy inhabitants.
To keep the story short, they came up with solutions themselves and you can see the consequences 
with your own eyes every year

[rickudon]

More drainage is not the best answer - it just means the water becomes the problem of the next person downstream. Drainage is a local issue, water management a national one. Best would be to retain more water in forests and agricultural land - forests release the water more slowly ( maintaining river flows in the dry season for longer), reduce irrigation needs and provide better quality water.

[Thunglom]

Thailands policy on ware is basically 50 years out of date. They still think dams are the answer and don't understand the effects of deforestation and farming encroachment have on flooding in urban areas.

 

They still think digging big holes will work - when in Bangkok for the past 100 years they have been filling in channels in a delta that is slowly sinking and has an average height above sea level of 1.5 metres.

 

Reforestation and returning the natural flow of rivers can slow the process but global warming is increasing the extremes of climate which in turn will mean higher foods heavier rain and more pronounced droughts.

The government needs a radical rethink of how they deal with water throughout the country.

[Thunglom]

On 10/3/2021 at 12:34 AM, zzaa09 said:

As long as we're showing off Thai copy-cat models in not such a humble manner - pics below, second home in Sukhothai.

 

Built similar patterns while years in Surin and then again in Phichit.

Traditional designs are the only practical way to go. 

 

 

 

 

architecture around Thailand has reflected climate for centuries - however as the population has grown the trend has been towards quick-build concrete houses with few ecological acknowledgements.

BUT - just building you house on stilts is not actually a satisfactory response. I have done flood relief down south and a house on stilts does little to address the problems that flooding brings - it mat =y keep your belongings dry but that's about it. (BTW many people build rates when the floods come and just float everything on them.

THe problems it doesn't address are utilities and the environment and event substructures of those buildings. Places inundated with salt/brackish water lose not just there crops but the ability to replant for several years. Flooding does just interrupt electricity supplies it often destroy the infrastructure it self....the same goes for water supplies phones, roads and worst of all sewerage-. So you may feel oK for a while in your house on stumps but it only addresses some of the problems. The aftermath can be devastating.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Thunglom

[Thunglom]

On 9/30/2021 at 8:39 AM, Pdavies99 said:

Simple really....look at Los Angeles Floodways.

Wrong on so many counts.

LA is over 90 metres above sea level.

Bangkok is 1.5 metres above sea level and built on a massive delta - channels run under most of the streets already. LA has a relatively tiny river.

the average rainfall for LA is about 15 inches, BKK is 46 inches.

Basically you are comparing two totally different things.

[Thunglom]

On 9/30/2021 at 12:11 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Building on pillars seems a no brainer to me but they seem to prefer mopping up the <deleted> from the floods

The origin of almost all Thai culture is on flood plains - that's why they are there.

[recom273]

On 9/29/2021 at 3:05 PM, Will B Good said:

There are a few European bungalows around us that are built up about 1m from the ground, a good move. A lot of people don't realize houses often flooded from water seeping upwards through the ground, rather than ingress from outside flooding.

 

Given the choice I would go for a traditional Thai house every-time.

When we got flooded, I had no idea there was a flood, despite days of rain. I rode to the end of the road and found the road to be a fast flowing river, and called everyone out of our little community to come see. While everyone was outside, despite our soi being built up above the predicted flood level, the pressure in the sewers was forcing was water up though the toilets in our downstairs bathrooms.