Water / Electricity supply in Isaan

[Siam_Sam]

My Thai wife and I are planning to live in Isaan and are hoping to become as self sufficient as possible. The plan is to drill for water on the land that we eventually buy so that we can fill a large pond and maintain a constant water supply. We would also like to install solar panels to generate an electricity supply. I have done a fair amount of research but the majority of videos that I've watched are in Thai and I have to get the wife to translate. If there is anyone that has experience with any of these things and would like to offer me some advice then I would be very grateful. What I'd like to know mainly is the costs involved, how much water you can expect to access based on the deepness of the drilling, how much water they can guarantee you, how reliable solar panels are and how they are maintained and fixed, and the actual processes involved with drilling for water and installing solar panels. 

[Farma]

We had a 4" bore drilled earlier this year. Expect to pay around 5 to 6k baht. Same price if they find water at 6 or 36 metres. They found my water at 36 metres.

 

Been told in my area any bore deeper that 40 metres requires a licence. 

 

Had a double solar panel and 3" pump installed. Cost 32k baht. Enough flow to easily run 4 to 6 sprinklers depending on cloud cover.

 

Generally I find sunlight is strong enough to run between 0800 to 1600 each day. 

[Horatio Poke]

I have no specialist knowledge but I do have considerable experience re boreholes and ponds in Isaan.

 

18 hours ago, Siam_Sam said:

The costs involved

We had a bore drilled earlier this year.  The guy charged 15,000 baht for the first 45 metres then 500 baht for each additional metre for a 4 inch bore.  This is quite cheap.  A lot of guys charge twice that amount...., and more.
A 6 inch bore would have cost 50,000 baht for 45 metres.

The pump and ancillary items cost a further 10,000 baht or so, including labour.

 

Drilling the bore took 4 or 5 hours, fitting the pump took another hour or so but not on the same day.  Apparently it is best to allow the bore to settle before fitting the pump.  I don't know exactly why.

We had the same guy (family actually) fit the pump as drilled the bore.  This was to avoid any possible merry-go-round of blame if one or the other didn't work properly.

 

A borehole will work well for up to 10 years.  When they're beyond their best they start dragging up lots of grit and dirt which will damage your pump, silt up your taps, deposit copious amounts of grit in your shower tray, etc.  You can have the bore cleaned but in my view it's best to write it off and have a new one drilled.  Cleaning and drilling a new hole cost about the same price - cleaning is usually only re-drilling anyway in my experience.

 

18 hours ago, Siam_Sam said:

how much water you can expect to access based on the deepness of the drilling, how much water they can guarantee you,

The diameter of the borehole, the distance from ground level to the water surface, and the type of pump used will determine the yield.  The depth of the bore is only critical if the water is a long way below ground level.
Our old bore was 2 inch and 42 metres deep - most of our neighbours' bores were double that depth.  Our old bore with a Lucky pump consistently pumped 6 or 7 litres a minute - more than enough enough for domestic use and some plant watering, but pond-filling took ages but was  still doable.  Most of our neighbours used cheaper pumps and their bores often didn't yield at all.

Our new 4 inch bore can fill a 7,000 litre pond in just a few hours so my guess is that it pumps at 20 or so litres a minute (that is only a guess) and might work faster if we pumped through open ended pipes without taps - but I am only guessing here.

 

in my experience nobody will make any guarantees about how much water you will b able to pump.

 

I hope that the above is helpful.
I will be happy to answer any further questions.

[kamalabob2]

The OP would save money if he had access to PEA at the road. He would save money for a HOUSE to build and live in if he had dependable PWA water at his road. However, all too often people have land a bit farther from PWA water pipes, and a bit farther than a good voltage supply of PEA electric. EVERY town has several shops that will sell the OP a submersible DC brushless well pump to be connected to solar panels. VERY COMMON, even Thaiwatsadu | Global House | Do Home, not to mention Mom and Pop stores. Not rare, not hard, and not expensive to buy DC brushless 4" submersible well pump and solar panels and controllers. It will be less money when the OP is ready to drill than it is today.  Getting power "off grid" and the batteries is also sold in EVERY town.  The OP can see a well documented installation, on this non commercial blog written by a UK expat.   https://ecohousethailand.com/    The Op can see actual costs in Surin Province on that blog. He can check REFERENCES before he spends a single baht. He can ask to see the REPAIR department of where he is thinking of buying solar pumps.  If he can not see the repair department he might think twice about that supplier., EVERYTHING breaks over time in Isaan, and who can and WILL fix things does matter in my 15 years of living in Buriram Province. The OP can see the posted prices at his local PEA office and if he is lucky at his local PWA water office. There is not trick on the prices for service or per unit of water or unit of electricity if he goes in person to the office. They post prices on the wall. 

[kamalabob2]

I've seen plenty of well drillers in Buriram. Buying the worst well pumps, worst PVC, is par for the course. The customer of the well driller does not realize the well driller cut every corner and won't realize he is supplied with less than the best products until they start to fail. Checking references of the well driller and meeting people face to face who hired the well driller over 3 years ago is important in my observation. Did they come back and fix things?  Did products used fail in the first 3 years?  

[Bandersnatch]

Have a read of my blog as I have done everything you are planning to do. If you have any questions post them here

 

EcoHouseThailand.com

[Rdrokit]

Water is VERY cheap in Thailand. I pay about 250 baht a month and the wife uses the washing machine every day and cleans the carport and porches everyday. Also waters all our gardens. Also depending on where you live well water can be very salty.

 

We have a one rai pond that is filled with rainwater and at times we have to pump out water to the rice patties. No need for a well and that location is in Non Sung.

 

Electricity is a whole nother topic. Compared to Thai standards it is expensive. We have a 2 story house and have running at least one a/c unit 24 hours a day most of the year and sometimes in hot weather 2 units running 24 hours a day. Our electric bill is between 2500 and 3500 baht a month.

 

I am not sure the cost of solar panels and their maintenance is enough to offset our electric bill. 

 

Good luck on that ever route you take.

[Siam_Sam]

Thank you so much for all these wonderful replies which are very helpful, especially Bandersnatch as that blog is fantastic and exactly the sort of thing that I was looking for. I'll have a read through this and I'm certain there will be many questions to follow! 

[Siam_Sam]

On 10/1/2021 at 4:42 AM, Farma said:

We had a 4" bore drilled earlier this year. Expect to pay around 5 to 6k baht. Same price if they find water at 6 or 36 metres. They found my water at 36 metres.

 

Been told in my area any bore deeper that 40 metres requires a licence. 

 

Had a double solar panel and 3" pump installed. Cost 32k baht. Enough flow to easily run 4 to 6 sprinklers depending on cloud cover.

 

Generally I find sunlight is strong enough to run between 0800 to 1600 each day. 

 

On 10/1/2021 at 5:02 AM, Horatio Poke said:

I have no specialist knowledge but I do have considerable experience re boreholes and ponds in Isaan.

 

We had a bore drilled earlier this year.  The guy charged 15,000 baht for the first 45 metres then 500 baht for each additional metre for a 4 inch bore.  This is quite cheap.  A lot of guys charge twice that amount...., and more.
A 6 inch bore would have cost 50,000 baht for 45 metres.

The pump and ancillary items cost a further 10,000 baht or so, including labour.

 

Drilling the bore took 4 or 5 hours, fitting the pump took another hour or so but not on the same day.  Apparently it is best to allow the bore to settle before fitting the pump.  I don't know exactly why.

We had the same guy (family actually) fit the pump as drilled the bore.  This was to avoid any possible merry-go-round of blame if one or the other didn't work properly.

 

A borehole will work well for up to 10 years.  When they're beyond their best they start dragging up lots of grit and dirt which will damage your pump, silt up your taps, deposit copious amounts of grit in your shower tray, etc.  You can have the bore cleaned but in my view it's best to write it off and have a new one drilled.  Cleaning and drilling a new hole cost about the same price - cleaning is usually only re-drilling anyway in my experience.

 

The diameter of the borehole, the distance from ground level to the water surface, and the type of pump used will determine the yield.  The depth of the bore is only critical if the water is a long way below ground level.
Our old bore was 2 inch and 42 metres deep - most of our neighbours' bores were double that depth.  Our old bore with a Lucky pump consistently pumped 6 or 7 litres a minute - more than enough enough for domestic use and some plant watering, but pond-filling took ages but was  still doable.  Most of our neighbours used cheaper pumps and their bores often didn't yield at all.

Our new 4 inch bore can fill a 7,000 litre pond in just a few hours so my guess is that it pumps at 20 or so litres a minute (that is only a guess) and might work faster if we pumped through open ended pipes without taps - but I am only guessing here.

 

in my experience nobody will make any guarantees about how much water you will b able to pump.

 

I hope that the above is helpful.
I will be happy to answer any further questions.

 

On 10/1/2021 at 3:21 PM, kamalabob2 said:

The OP would save money if he had access to PEA at the road. He would save money for a HOUSE to build and live in if he had dependable PWA water at his road. However, all too often people have land a bit farther from PWA water pipes, and a bit farther than a good voltage supply of PEA electric. EVERY town has several shops that will sell the OP a submersible DC brushless well pump to be connected to solar panels. VERY COMMON, even Thaiwatsadu | Global House | Do Home, not to mention Mom and Pop stores. Not rare, not hard, and not expensive to buy DC brushless 4" submersible well pump and solar panels and controllers. It will be less money when the OP is ready to drill than it is today.  Getting power "off grid" and the batteries is also sold in EVERY town.  The OP can see a well documented installation, on this non commercial blog written by a UK expat.   https://ecohousethailand.com/    The Op can see actual costs in Surin Province on that blog. He can check REFERENCES before he spends a single baht. He can ask to see the REPAIR department of where he is thinking of buying solar pumps.  If he can not see the repair department he might think twice about that supplier., EVERYTHING breaks over time in Isaan, and who can and WILL fix things does matter in my 15 years of living in Buriram Province. The OP can see the posted prices at his local PEA office and if he is lucky at his local PWA water office. There is not trick on the prices for service or per unit of water or unit of electricity if he goes in person to the office. They post prices on the wall. 

I am trying to devise a water system for our house and land but I am a layman so please forgive me if my questions seem a little stupid. Perhaps if I explained our exact requirements it will help people answer my questions more accurately. What we will require is two large ponds on our land, one for breeding fish and the other one for all of our watering use on the farm, which will be extensive as we are planning to grow a diverse range of fruits and vegetables. The water supply to our house that we will be using for cooking and washing ourselves will need to be filtered as my wife and I both have sensitive skin and wouldn't be able to use water direct from under the ground or a pond to clean ourselves. It doesn't need to be clean enough to drink as we always drink bottled water. The water for flushing the toilets and the two taps that I plan to have on both sides of the house obviously doesn't need to be filtered, neither would the water that would be used for watering all of the crops. 

 

I have some idea about filtering systems through watching videos on You Tube but what I don't understand is how the water pressure is generated before it enters the house if it has to pass through a filtering system? In my wife's village there is a water tower like most villages in Isaan but if the water then has to pass through a filtering system before it comes into the house surely it won't be under pressure any more? How is a sufficient water pressure then achieved? Is this done with pumps? We are planning to buy land on a main road that is quite isolated and a least a few hundred yards from other houses so will I have to install some sort of mini water tower or a suspended tank to achieve the desired water pressures because the mains supply isn't strong enough? And how do I split the water supply if I have both my own water and don't wish to use the mains water that often? Or do I not bother with the mains water supply at all if I have my own supply? 

 

My other questions concern the actual water supply from the bore holes. Does the water supply for our house come straight from the bore hole via the filtering system and/or water tower/tank? I'm guessing that it wouldn't and that it would have to come from the pond because then that way once the water from the bore hole has run out you still have the water in the pond to use before you completely run out. Then you can get another hole drilled before you have used all the water in the pond. 

 

If there is anyone that can answer any of these questions or give me any advice at all with this I would appreciate it so much as I am having difficulty finding English speaking people on You Tube that have a system that is the same as what we require. There are a myriad of videos on You Tube made by Thai people but not only can I not understand them, none of the Thai people seem to have a system like the one we want as they are more resilient than us farangs and aren't bothered about having a filtering system! 

[BritManToo]

On 11/6/2021 at 12:25 AM, Siam_Sam said:

Thank you so much for all these wonderful replies which are very helpful, especially Bandersnatch as that blog is fantastic and exactly the sort of thing that I was looking for. I'll have a read through this and I'm certain there will be many questions to follow! 

I have 5 panels and 2 GTIs, they provide about 140 units a month but need the PEA electricity to work.

Cost around 20,000bht.

 

If I was off grid I'd need to spend more like 100,000bht, batteries are expensive.

If you have to hire someone to install it for you, double the price.

[Siam_Sam]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I have 5 panels and 2 GTIs, they provide about 140 units a month but need the PEA electricity to work.

Cost around 20,000bht.

 

If I was off grid I'd need to spend more like 100,000bht, batteries are expensive.

If you have to hire someone to install it for you, double the price.

Thanks for the reply but I don't understand any of it. What is a GTI? 140 units of what? If you need the PEA electricity to operate the solar powered electricity, then what's the point in having solar panels? Could you also explain what you mean by the 100k baht please? If you were off grid you'd have to spend the 100k baht on what? 

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, Siam_Sam said:

Thanks for the reply but I don't understand any of it. What is a GTI? 140 units of what? If you need the PEA electricity to operate the solar powered electricity, then what's the point in having solar panels? Could you also explain what you mean by the 100k baht please? If you were off grid you'd have to spend the 100k baht on what? 

Storing electricity is expensive, most of us use the grid as our battery (winding the meter backwards in the day).

But if you don't have the grid, you need to buy batteries to store your electricity for the night.

To store 10 units of electricity, a battery would cost 50,000-70,000bht.

Another 20,000bht for the off grid hybrid inverter.

Add 30,000-50,000bht for 15x solar panels.

[Siam_Sam]

11 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Storing electricity is expensive, most of us use the grid as our battery (winding the meter backwards in the day).

But if you don't have the grid, you need to buy batteries to store your electricity for the night.

To store 10 units of electricity, a battery would cost 50,000-70,000bht.

Another 20,000bht for the off grid hybrid inverter.

Add 30,000-50,000bht for 15x solar panels.

I'm sorry but you have completely lost me. You must live in a very isolated part of Thailand if you're using batteries to store electricity but you say that you also use the PEA so I'm confused? I have much experience of Thailand and have lived in both cities and Isaan but can't say I have ever heard of anyone storing their electricity in batteries or seen this system anywhere in Isaan? 

[sirineou]

On 1/1/2022 at 7:33 PM, Siam_Sam said:

I'm sorry but you have completely lost me. You must live in a very isolated part of Thailand if you're using batteries to store electricity but you say that you also use the PEA so I'm confused? I have much experience of Thailand and have lived in both cities and Isaan but can't say I have ever heard of anyone storing their electricity in batteries or seen this system anywhere in Isaan? 

 Britman is saying that he uses the grid as his storage device.

In another words, when he is over producing electricity during the day, his meter is running backwards and he sells it to PEA and when he needs it, he gets it back from PEA .

In essence PEA  is his storage device (battery),

but he says that if you are in an area where electricity is not available. (my uncle's farm is too far away from the power lines) then you would need Batteries.

In his farm  my uncle has a solar cell setup (two panes) that he uses to run the well pump, and he charges batteries that they use when it gets dark, when someone stays at the farm overnight or late . 

[Siam_Sam]

18 hours ago, sirineou said:

 Britman is saying that he uses the grid as his storage device.

In another words, when he is over producing electricity during the day, his meter is running backwards and he sells it to PEA and when he needs it, he gets it back from PEA .

In essence PEA  is his storage device (battery),

but he says that if you are in an area where electricity is not available. (my uncle's farm is too far away from the power lines) then you would need Batteries.

In his farm  my uncle has a solar cell setup (two panes) that he uses to run the well pump, and he charges batteries that they use when it gets dark, when someone stays at the farm overnight or late . 

Thanks for clarifying things. Now I understand. Where we are planning to live would be on a main road (or just off of one) that will have access to the PEA grid so it sounds as if we will have a similar setup to BritManToo. I had no idea that you can exchange electricity with PEA which is very interesting compared to the system that we have in the UK. Do you have any experience or further advice with this? 

[sirineou]

5 hours ago, Siam_Sam said:

Thanks for clarifying things. Now I understand. Where we are planning to live would be on a main road (or just off of one) that will have access to the PEA grid so it sounds as if we will have a similar setup to BritManToo. I had no idea that you can exchange electricity with PEA which is very interesting compared to the system that we have in the UK. Do you have any experience or further advice with this? 

 I don't know the particulars .Crossy is our resident electrical expert in this forum , and a real nice guy, He is the moderator in the  moderator in the  Electrical sub   forum, and he has a solar cell system  installed in his house. I am sure if you PM him he would answer  any questions  .If you hover your cursor over his name that I typed, it will give you a link to him

There are also a number of threads about solar cells running , you might want to read through a few of them .

 

[Guest Isaanlife]

6" bore, 80m, 36,000thb all in.

 

Pump was from Japan.

 

3 Years later, no issues at all.

[Crossy]

@Siam_Sam

For solar stuff come over to the Alterative Energy forum https://aseannow.com/forum/319-alternativerenewable-energy-forum/ this thread may be of interest https://aseannow.com/topic/1228023-whats-all-this-on-grid-off-grid-hybrid-stuff-all-about-solar-systems-demystified/

 

For boreholes, ponds etc. Farming might be your best bet https://aseannow.com/forum/104-farming-in-thailand-forum/

 

Many people have done what you want to do and most are very willing to assist.

 

EDIT Just as a taster, this is our electricity log for Jan 2022, the actual start point is Dec 19th 'coz that's when the PEA bill comes.

 

Blue line is overall electricity consumption, Green line is the energy generated by our 10kW hybrid solar system, Red line is our top-up usage from PEA. As you can see we get about 75% of our electricity from the solar on our car-port ???? 

 

[Siam_Sam]

On 1/3/2022 at 11:48 PM, sirineou said:

 I don't know the particulars .Crossy is our resident electrical expert in this forum , and a real nice guy, He is the moderator in the  moderator in the  Electrical sub   forum, and he has a solar cell system  installed in his house. I am sure if you PM him he would answer  any questions  .If you hover your cursor over his name that I typed, it will give you a link to him

There are also a number of threads about solar cells running , you might want to read through a few of them .

 

 

On 1/6/2022 at 11:59 PM, Crossy said:

@Siam_Sam

For solar stuff come over to the Alterative Energy forum https://aseannow.com/forum/319-alternativerenewable-energy-forum/ this thread may be of interest https://aseannow.com/topic/1228023-whats-all-this-on-grid-off-grid-hybrid-stuff-all-about-solar-systems-demystified/

 

For boreholes, ponds etc. Farming might be your best bet https://aseannow.com/forum/104-farming-in-thailand-forum/

 

Many people have done what you want to do and most are very willing to assist.

 

EDIT Just as a taster, this is our electricity log for Jan 2022, the actual start point is Dec 19th 'coz that's when the PEA bill comes.

 

Blue line is overall electricity consumption, Green line is the energy generated by our 10kW hybrid solar system, Red line is our top-up usage from PEA. As you can see we get about 75% of our electricity from the solar on our car-port ???? 

 

Thank you so much for your replies and links guys. Perhaps it would have been better if I'd have started a thread in the appropriate part of the site! I will have a read through the relevant threads and if it's ok Crossy I may well ask you some questions via PM? 

[Crossy]

6 minutes ago, Siam_Sam said:

if it's ok Crossy I may well ask you some questions via PM? 

 

No problem of course, you would get a wider spread of opinion by posting on the open forum but no worries if you want to keep it private ???? 

[Siam_Sam]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

No problem of course, you would get a wider spread of opinion by posting on the open forum but no worries if you want to keep it private ???? 

Doh! I didn't realise this was the private part of the forum either!