Death of trespasser: Swiss man's Thai wife was having affair with victim, say family

[Gecko123]

43 minutes ago, wadman said:

Apparently Sathian/Sathien/Setiyon sold 12 heads of cattle in September for 520k, and the Swiss wife got the bulk of that money (according to Sathian's mother). So if the police finds that the 290k from the land sale was used by the wife as bail money, her explanation for that would be easy enough: Sathian gave it to her. 

Hang on a sec. He received the money on October 1rst (according to the buyers). According to her, they didn't have any contact on October 2nd, except that they may have spoken on the phone around 2:30PM. I don't think anybody has admitted so far that they actually had physical contact that day. So if the explanation is that Setiyon gave it to her before he died, the question is naturally going to be "when did he give it to her?" And if the answer is "he gave me the money later in the day after he called me at 2:30PM" well, that means she had additional contact with him closer and closer to the time he showed up at 10:30 at night at her house armed with a fully loaded revolver. It will also mean that she has repeatedly changed her story, never a good sign in the eyes of the police. As the last point of contact between Lak and Setiyon keeps getting closer and closer to 10:30 PM, this is increasing the likelihood that she knew what his motive for coming to the house was. If the fingerprints of the couple who purchased the land from Setiyon are on the bail money, I don't think there's going to be a quick and easy way to explain that away.

 

Keep in mind that the window of time for when he could have given her the money is getting smaller and smaller. If she says she got the money around 4:30PM on Oct 2nd, she better hope his cell phone and her cell phone triangulate to the same area at that time, or there are witnesses who can attest to their meeting, or that his mother and ex-wife don't come back and say "that's impossible, we were all enjoying a plate of som tam together at the house at 4:30 PM, and there are 10 witnesses who can verify this."

Edited October 8, 2021 by Gecko123

[wadman]

12 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Hang on a sec. He received the money on October 1rst (according to the buyers). According to her, they didn't have any contact on October 2nd, except that they may have spoken on the phone around 2:30PM. I don't think anybody has admitted so far that they actually had physical contact that day. So if the explanation is that Setiyon gave it to her before he died, the question is naturally going to be "when did he give it to her?" And if the answer is "he gave me the money later in the day after he called me at 2:30PM" well, that means she had additional contact with him closer and closer to the time he showed up at 10:30 at night at her house armed with a fully loaded revolver. It will also mean that she has repeatedly changed her story, never a good sign in the eyes of the police. As the last point of contact between Lak and Setiyon keeps getting closer and closer to 10:30 PM, this is increasing the likelihood that she knew what his motive for coming to the house was. If the fingerprints of the couple who purchased the land from Setiyon are on the bail money, I don't think there's going to be a quick and easy way to explain that away.

 

Keep in mind that the window of time for when he could have given her the money is getting smaller and smaller. If she says she got the money around 4:30PM on Oct 2nd, she better hope his cell phone and her cell phone triangulate to the same area at that time, or there are witnesses who can attest to their meeting, or that his mother and ex-wife don't come back and say "that's impossible, we were all enjoying a plate of som tam together at the house at 4:30 PM, and there are 10 witnesses who can verify this."

Sathian received the money on oct 1, he died the night of Oct 2. So that's 2 days in which he could have given her the money. Swiss wife also came home late (by village standards) on the night of Oct 2, from "drinking with friends". Might her lover have been one of those friends, or indeed the only friend? 

 

Sathian carelessly having all that cash in his pocket (one full day after he received it), knowing that he was going into a potentially explosive situation (to the point where he felt the need to carry a gun) doesn't make any sense whatsoever. 

 

I think a lot of the confusion comes from the fact that Sathian's mother said that he had 290k "on his person". I'm thinking that's a poor translation, and she didn't mean that he was literally carrying it around on his person all that time. Just that he had received the money, and thus would have no motive for an armed robbery as claimed by the Swiss. 

[dunroaming]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

And "most of us know" would have been just as much garbage.

I think you do the ex-pats down.  Most are savvy enough to see things for what they are.  Of course there are still some naive enough to believe all the bull manure.

[Gecko123]

47 minutes ago, wadman said:

Sathian received the money on oct 1, he died the night of Oct 2. So that's 2 days in which he could have given her the money. Swiss wife also came home late (by village standards) on the night of Oct 2, from "drinking with friends". Might her lover have been one of those friends, or indeed the only friend? 

 

Sathian carelessly having all that cash in his pocket (one full day after he received it), knowing that he was going into a potentially explosive situation (to the point where he felt the need to carry a gun) doesn't make any sense whatsoever. 

 

I think a lot of the confusion comes from the fact that Sathian's mother said that he had 290k "on his person". I'm thinking that's a poor translation, and she didn't mean that he was literally carrying it around on his person all that time. Just that he had received the money, and thus would have no motive for an armed robbery as claimed by the Swiss. 

You make some interesting and valid points. But if you go with the theory that he freely gave 290K to Lak prior to his death, where does that leave us? Bestowing hefty sums of money (both after the cattle and land sales) on a woman who is married? What was his end game? I know how Thai guys think. Yes, they can fall head over heels in love with a woman, but when you're talking that kind of money (and it's been reported that aside from these one-off sales he typically only earned 6-7,000 baht per month), a Thai guy, almost out of necessity, would have to give at least some consideration to eventually getting a financial return on his investment.

 

Maybe he had finally gotten her to agree that if he gave her this final gift of money, she would let him plug her farang husband and keep her mouth shut and he would get to move in to the house, and they would live happily ever after. With money possibly changing hands, his coming to the house at night, pulling a gun, and almost certainly knowing she was home at the time, it just feels like some Rubicon had been crossed, some firm decision was made which there was no turning back from, and I suspect that the plan was Rudolph wasn't supposed to be in the picture after that night.

 

It could be that armed robbery was just the cover for a murder. The plan may have been for the killer to have slipped away in the dark never to be identified. It may be only because Rudolf survived and was able to report what the intruder said that Setiyon has inadvertently ended up being accused of armed robbery. The plan could well have been for Lak (and maybe the next door neighbors) to report that they heard some unknown assailant yell "money, money, money" before shots rang out, and he fled, in order to throw the police off as to the true motive.

Edited October 8, 2021 by Gecko123

[Khabib]

All this Agatha Christie posts are great, a movie should be made. Myself, the silver lining will be, (true or not) the message to potential invaders on a ferlang home is - don't attempt to invade a ferlang home, it's fraught with danger.

[Gecko123]

42 minutes ago, Khabib said:

All this Agatha Christie posts are great, a movie should be made. Myself, the silver lining will be, (true or not) the message to potential invaders on a ferlang home is - don't attempt to invade a ferlang home, it's fraught with danger.

It's funny  you mention that a movie should be made. This case has some interesting parallels to the plot lines in movies like Dial M for Murder, The Postman Always Rings Twice, and A Perfect Murder (staring Michael Douglas & Gwyneth Paltrow). But I'm worried that in this case, unlike in the movies, the truth may never fully come to light.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Gecko123

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, matchar said:

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"...we have established..."

"We" have?   You mean that you and a team of Thaivisa sleuths are actually involved in the investigation and that conclusion is as a result of your enquiries?

Well it was reported in the media that the dead man's family aren't disputing the gun belonged to him and also a friend of the dead man also said it belonged to him so is that strong enough evidence for you?

I will leave the investigation to the police and I hope all parties are treated fairly but it seems most likely it was self-defense if the Thai man turned up at the Swiss man's house with a loaded gun.

I wasn't commenting on the circumstances of the case, neither am I looking for evidence!  I was commenting on your post in which you said "we have established...".   You have not established anything, unless you're an investigator on the case.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

4 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

And "most of us know" would have been just as much garbage.

I think you do the ex-pats down.  Most are savvy enough to see things for what they are.  Of course there are still some naive enough to believe all the bull manure.

"...there are still some naive enough to believe all the bull manure".

There sure are, dunroaming, there sure are!

Edited October 8, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[wadman]

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

You make some interesting and valid points. But if you go with the theory that he freely gave 290K to Lak prior to his death, where does that leave us? Bestowing hefty sums of money (both after the cattle and land sales) on a woman who is married? What was his end game? I know how Thai guys think. Yes, they can fall head over heels in love with a woman, but when you're talking that kind of money (and it's been reported that aside from these sales he only earned 6-7,000 baht per month), a Thai guy, almost out of necessity, would have to give at least some consideration to eventually getting a financial return on his investment. Maybe he had finally gotten her to agree that if he gave her this final gift of money, she would let him plug her farang husband and keep her mouth shut and he would get to move in to the house, and they would live happily ever after. With money possibly changing hands, his coming to the house at night, pulling a gun, and almost certainly knowing she was home at the time, it just feels like some Rubicon had been crossed, some firm decision was made which there was no turning back from, and I suspect that the plan was Rudolph wasn't supposed to be in the picture after that night.

The house is likely in the wife's name.  She could have simply filed for divorce, and then told Rudolph to get the F out of HER house, at which point Sathian moves in.  No need to kill the farang. 

 

The only possible monetary motive I can see is if the wife and/or Sathian thought they could benefit from Rudolph's life insurance policy and his pension.  But this affair had been going on for 2-3 years, if Rudolph had any brains at all he would have long removed her as a beneficiary (and let her known about it).

 

The only explanation that makes sense is that this was all a result of anger and emotions.  We know that Sathian went to their house, and encountered Rudolph.  The ensuing encounter could not have been friendly.  Rudolph must be incredibly mild mannered for him not to lose his temper.  I know that if I were in his shoes, one wrong move or word, and it would have been fisticuffs.

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

On 10/7/2021 at 7:11 AM, IAMHERE said:

I have to see the phone records before I believe them that a call was made.

Well, I'm sure that the police will make that available to you once you let them know that you "have to see them"!   

[Gecko123]

57 minutes ago, Khabib said:

Myself, the silver lining will be, (true or not) the message to potential invaders on a ferlang home is - don't attempt to invade a ferlang home, it's fraught with danger.

There's a couple of 20 something punks in my neighborhood who I'm hoping see this story. I'm looking at em, like, that's right, try climbing in my bedroom window in the middle of the night, and see what happens. A ruptured spleen is going to be the least of your problems. I'm just joking, but I'll admit that I appreciate the "don't under-estimate my ability to fight back" message this case has sent out, especially when you consider that it's common knowledge that most foreigners don't have firearms.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 10/7/2021 at 12:34 PM, wadman said:

She can just walk away and file for a divorce, no need to kill the Swiss to be free. 

 

The only thing is his pension. Would that really go to the wife under these circumstances

It would only go to the spouse in certain specified circumstances, pension schemes do not automatically provide joint life annuities.   It's very likely that the pension would cease on his death, unless he'd opted to receive a reduced annuity.

[Liverpool Lou]

8 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

consider the possibility that the land buyer's fingerprints might be on the money she used to pay Rudolph's bail.

You seem to be under the impression that bail money is kept by the police/court as a specific bundle of cash belonging to a particular case when it is, obviously, banked and then becomes just part of the banks' stocks and is used in transactions as all bank cash is!    

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

I still think my idea of checking the bail money paid by the wife to see if the fingerprints of the husband/wife who bought the land from Setiyon the day before, if I may say so myself, is brilliant.

"Brilliant"?  No.   Ridiculous?  Yes.

[kwonitoy]

On 10/7/2021 at 4:22 PM, Dogmatix said:

I noticed that Rudolf's wife has a FB page under her real name ลักษณ์ สารีรูป open to the public but unfortunately not much in it. Rudolf is apparently a friend under the name Ruedi Grüter but his page is not open to the public. One of the wife's friends, an older woman, has some pics of herself fooling around with a pistol with her hand dangerously on the trigger. A thorough police search without warning would probably reveal a lot of illegal guns in villagers' houses.  That's something Rudolf should take into account in choosing a new place to live, if he is freed from the case and divorced from his party girl wife.

Just outstanding trigger control, she should teach the RTP

[Gecko123]

20 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

You seem to be under the impression that bail money is kept by the police/court as a specific bundle of cash belonging to a particular case when it is, obviously, banked and then becomes just part of the banks' stocks and is used in transactions as all bank cash is!    

I've actually had to post bail (not for myself) in Thailand. In my case the funds were kept on premises at the local police station. While what you say is entirely possible it's also possible that the cash bail has been held temporarily on premises while the matter is resolved. Early on there were indications that Rudolph would be quickly exonerated and thus the bail would need to be quickly returned. That may have now changed. It may no longer be feasible to check the the actual money paid for bail for prints of the buyers of the land Setiyon sold, but it was/is still a very good idea to do this if it is still possible.

Edited October 8, 2021 by Gecko123

[spidermike007]

His family could be making  it all up, to save face. That extreme form of cowardice is so common here. Why did the guy bring a gun, if he was simply coming for a friendly visit? And why would he come to visit her in the home of her husband? 

 

Smells like week old fish to me. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by spidermike007

[Khabib]

4 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

His family could be making  it all up, to save face. That extreme form of cowardice is so common here. Why did the guy bring a gun, if he was simply coming for a friendly visit? And why would he come to visit her in the home of her husband? 

 

Smells like week old fish to me. 

That's right, the trouble with bringing a gun (coward) plus not having the guts to use it, suspected the Swiss would be more of a coward. He was surely wrong.

[Khabib]

I'm going directly into detective mode. If the gun was at the home at the time of invasion, owned by the intruder, that's a significant fact. The sleeping story really doesn't add up, if I was invaded totally drunk with a shot (pun intended), I'd be up fisticuffs at the waiting (Dutch courage - no disrespect to the Dutch). And so, I'm going to suggest, it was the rope, in the garden, by Miss Scarlet, or Colonel Mustard.

[fredscats]

Rudolph,

 

Now you have been sprung from your prison cell, and from reliable source are over the moon I hope you are enjoying the most thoughtful and accomplished comments from fellow ex-pats in what must be your darkest hour (s) the sympathy vote is all yours

You must now be enjoying the finest sex ever expirienced by yourself ,its there to be enjoyed,not spread around wantingly.  however a healing period  now beckons between your wife and yourself,one size fits all is a ridiculous comment,takes time to settle and close the gape

Yes for an aging guy its difficult,let her do the tam nam,get on top ,facing north or even south of your body helps in these circumstances,if you could provide web cam coverage would indeed be helpful and a few knowledgable instructions could be offered

 

Thank You for offering a period of your life,that I am sure for you, will never be forgotten

[Dogmatix]

The point about the missing 250K and the bail money is interesting.  You would think that, if Lakh got the 250k from Sathien, she would hide it somewhere and get Rudolf to transfer 300k to her and withdraw it from a local bank.  Of course, she could argue that they had 300k sitting around the house for whatever reason or even that Sathien gave her the 250k, in the event the land buyers' prints are found on the notes.  The buyers may not have touched the notes, if they just withdrew the money from bank in an envelope and didn't count it themselves.   But Sathien's prints would be on them, or whoever he had to help him at the Land Office, as everyone counts the money in the Land Office, as it is easy to remove some of the notes from those 100k paper binders that come from the banks and it might not have come straight from a bank.  We didn't get the chance to see the back of the title deed to know whether it was unencumbered or whether Sathien had to pay of a mortgage or khai faak contract with the 250k.  In my experience of buying land in Isaan, at least half the transactions I have done where with mortgaged or khai faaks that had to be paid off immediately, often leaving almost nothing for the seller. 

 

The second Amarin TV video was very interesting but still raises more questions than it answers.  It does seem to cast more doubt on Rudolf's story but doesn't prove that he was lying or that he, at least, wasn't acting in self defence, even if the story about the attempted robbery is not true.  He looks like a mild mannered retired architect, not like one of those farang Hell's Angels types that go around murdering people in Pattaya or Samui.  So I would go with the self defence argument, even if  robbery was the motive for Sathian's visit and Lakh is lying through her teeth. 

 

Now he is out on bail and preparing his defence, Rudolf may well be reading this thread himself.  Perhaps he will share his own theories about what happened and what was going on behind his back.

 

 

  

[Elkski]

On 10/6/2021 at 8:31 PM, fredscats said:

Something kinky here too.

 

  Thai wife likes it in a shed middle of rice field,now with pig/human s.hit fertilizing the said rice,the smell rancid at best,cometh the beast...the Thai woman for sure takes it up the jacksee too.

 

Now I too like the sound of this,already the farang/Thai manhood of Thailand makes its way to the house wanting its share of the pie too,..that is going to be one wealthy woman

This post is winner of most bizarre award.  So a remote camp shack 8s full of rice and pig dung?  And  you imply she takes it up the jacksee? And you imply this is a bad thing?

 

My theory is that this gal is a good lover.  Plenty so as sharing doesn't slow her down. Deceased probably bought her drinks and some gifts.  Swiss guys pension not providing the life they wanted.  Of course guy brags about 290 k in his pocket at the bar and the gun. Gal calls her lover to come over saying hubby isn't home or he approves. Wife not sleeping but couple await in ambush.  

Not sure if they planned to kill him or just rob the boyfriend? Knowing to kick the liver to kill is a stretch but now we all know. Hard to think the wife was ok with swiss guy kicking her lover and stomping him to death unless this was to find out where the money was hidden.  Perhaps the man was smart enough not to bring the cash to a 3 some.

[Dogmatix]

I am still not a buyer of the family assertions that Sathian was a man of substance based on a sale of cows last year and the sale of land. Aside from these two one-off transactions I see no evidence that he was of higher financial status that the run of the mill subsistence farmers in the area. He was also apparently a drunk and a partyer and probably not a hard worker. If he had 12 cows, it is very likely that he had borrowed money to buy them, maybe at loan shark rates, and had to pay that off.  They say he gave 40k to Lakh from that amount but perhaps that was repayment of a loan. Behind many land sales upcountry is a debt to be repaid, even if it was not formally registered on the title deed.  Lakh must have enjoyed flaunting her new found mia farang status when she came back to the village with a farang in tow and built a house.  They all refer to her as mia farang, not by her name,  in the videos and she was  drunk and probably a doper and a gambler.  Sathian was prepared to abandon his children to be a mia farang's toy boy.  So it is logical that he was well supported by her by village standards. 

[Dogmatix]

1 hour ago, fredscats said:

Rudolph,

 

Now you have been sprung from your prison cell, and from reliable source are over the moon I hope you are enjoying the most thoughtful and accomplished comments from fellow ex-pats in what must be your darkest hour (s) the sympathy vote is all yours

You must now be enjoying the finest sex ever expirienced by yourself ,its there to be enjoyed,not spread around wantingly.  however a healing period  now beckons between your wife and yourself,one size fits all is a ridiculous comment,takes time to settle and close the gape

Yes for an aging guy its difficult,let her do the tam nam,get on top ,facing north or even south of your body helps in these circumstances,if you could provide web cam coverage would indeed be helpful and a few knowledgable instructions could be offered

 

Thank You for offering a period of your life,that I am sure for you, will never be forgotten

Are you suggesting they should raise money for the defence on Only Fans?

[Saanim]

19 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

If he had 12 cows, it is very likely that he had borrowed money to buy them,

You do not need to buy cows, at least not all of them.  Some of them are born, so you get a cow for free (OK, there is a feeding, but for free grazing around the village). And such cow is sold for 5,000 - 15,000 Baht on the market.  

[chrisandsu]

Looks like the wife didn’t care much for the dead Thai guy . Practically denied knowing him (other then his advances) and looked completely at ease during the enactment . Something tells me old Rudolph’s death would of been a village party headed by the wife . 

[fredscats]

 

Rudolph, you are in series 21,hopefully a lesson for the faint hearted,however the yanks take a dim view of buggery

[Bert got kinky]

5 hours ago, Khabib said:

I'm going directly into detective mode. If the gun was at the home at the time of invasion, owned by the intruder, that's a significant fact. The sleeping story really doesn't add up, if I was invaded totally drunk with a shot (pun intended), I'd be up fisticuffs at the waiting (Dutch courage - no disrespect to the Dutch). And so, I'm going to suggest, it was the rope, in the garden, by Miss Scarlet, or Colonel Mustard.

You  are  going to look silly when it is found out that this was just a bondism swing session that went wrong.

 

[PingRoundTheWorld]

On 10/6/2021 at 6:14 PM, Elkski said:

Remember rule#1.  Stay worth more alive than dead. 

I was thinking just that - even if this isn't what actually happened - the fact that if he dies or goes to jail the wife would get the house and probably much more (any known savings/investments, life insurance if there is, etc) is alarming - to say the least.

If on the other hand he didn't buy the house (only rented), didn't marry her, and all assets were kept out of Thailand - her motivation would be to keep him as safe as possible.

But to sum it up, as you said - if she knows you're worth much more to her alive and well than.. uhh.. not.. chances are you'll remain that way.

[fredscats]

Rudolph,

        Some good tips here,probably get thru the jungle,forget the peanuts bail money and swissair out of it.

 

However,if you have good ❤  ,and now taking your first steps after this awful tragic event,let the lady help you out of it,few BJs,prostate massage,p.iss all over you will help you into the next stage of your life

 You have been a good man for many a year,welcoming a wife whos rear end was s.hit smeared,smelt of pig <deleted>,dripping from groin end and walked like she had a fifty mile gallop on a horse,now you are amonst freinds here I admit, and advice is most surely needed

 

Far from yodelling sound of music like, from top of mountains there in Switzerland dressed in lederhousens,to rapid decent into pig like grunts and screams from tin plated hut in stinking excerment filled rice paddy

 

you be glad to hear bus tours are being arranged,help the local economy too,to see this hut,where each passenger is allowed to dismount for five minute solace in there to reflect on the happening's and then onward to see that house of yours and ask questions