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Death of trespasser: Swiss man's Thai wife was having affair with victim, say family


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22 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"As we all know..."

Such garbage.   Just get so sick of posters saying "as we all know", as though what follows that is ever accepted or substantiated fact, eg.  "the truth has little or no value in Thailand".

Fair comment Lou.  Should have said most of us know.

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The police appear to be doing an excellent job of investigating this high profile case. There appear to be some issues about blood on the wall adjacent to where the intruder was subdued, as well as whether the intruder's injuries are consistent with the explanation of what happened, especially the blow which reportedly ruptured his liver and led to his death. The police have a legal obligation to investigate these issues.

 

They are also actively investigating the deceased's relationship with the Swiss guy's wife and talking to his family about everything they know about their relationship.

 

The problem is that if there was a conspiracy between the Thai guy and Rudolph's wife to do something nefarious to Rudolf (whether robbery or murder), now that the Thai guy is dead, the only hope of discovering the true motive may depend on whether either the Thai guy or the Swiss guy's wife confided in someone about what they planned to do. I am sure the police are extremely suspicious about what role their relationship played in leading up to the events that occurred, but in the absence of finding a witness, or other evidence that points to a conspiracy between them, this may be an extremely difficult case to solve.

 

Edited by Gecko123
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5 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

Still many loose ends to this story. We can summarise what facts and claims have so far come to light.

 

Lakh claims that Sathien was just a drinking companion but others claim that they had been lovers for 2-3 years.  Rudolf admitted to police he knew Sathien as one of Lakh's drinking buddies. Perhaps he also knew he was his wife's lover. If so, maybe that bothered him.  Maybe it didn't.

 

There is a witness who said the revolver was Sathien's.  He didn't know if it was registered or not.  Sathien's family have not disputed it was his gun. 

 

There are consfusing stories about money.  One relative claimed that Sathian had just sold 2 rai of land and had 290k in his pocket which disappeared.  It should be easy to verify the sale with the Land Dept and to see if it was an unemcumbered sale for cash or whether it was a redemption and resale of land that was in hock from which he might have netted very little money after settlement of the debt and brokerage fees. His mother had another story about him selling cows for 520,000 and giving away 480,000 to his real wife and 40,000 to the mia farang.  Another woman interviewed by Amarin TV claimed the mother was really upset about that because she was the one who took care of the cows and her son did nothing. 

 

There is obviously a lot more to the finances of Sathian and Lakh than has come out.  They were both hard drinkers and partyers and one of the women interviewed said they were into drugs too.  Partying by Thai village ne'er do wells at different people's houses, as Lakh admitted to, normally invovles gambling as the main attraction. If Lakh was a bar girl, she would have got the taste for these activities in Pattaya or somewhere.  The same people also get involved in with illegal bookies and loan sharks, borrowing money and laying bets on credit.  Gambling debts and loansharks may be a hidden part of this story.  Sathian may have told his mother he gave all the money from the cows to both wives but this is not necessarily true but maybe an excuse to explain why he didn't give her any for taking care of the cows.  The normal pattern is that a village girl snares a naive farang in a Pattaya beer bar and lugs him home triumphantly to build and house in the village.  There she assumes the image of a wealthy mia farang with an idiot husband which makes her attractive to village males who want a bit of free nooky and cash.  Him paying her for sex doesn't stack up, as many have pointed out. 

 

The story about Sathien having money and therefore no motive to want to rob Rudolf doesn't make much sense and we only have his family's word for that anyway.  Perhaps he didn't say money money anyway but said maa nii, maa nii and Rudolf misunderstood.  However, there seem to several other possible explanations as to what may have happened, some of which involve Lakh being a wilful party to events.  Let's hope the local BiB do a thorough investigation and the true facts will come out. 

 

 

 

 

.....who want a bit of free nooky and cash....

 

Love that word: "Nooky". never listened this before.

 

 

Perhaps he didn't say money money anyway but said maa nii, maa nii and Rudolf misunderstood. 

 

Or he said: "My knee, my knee"...

 

5 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

 

 

 

 

 

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I noticed that Rudolf's wife has a FB page under her real name ลักษณ์ สารีรูป open to the public but unfortunately not much in it. Rudolf is apparently a friend under the name Ruedi Grüter but his page is not open to the public. One of the wife's friends, an older woman, has some pics of herself fooling around with a pistol with her hand dangerously on the trigger. A thorough police search without warning would probably reveal a lot of illegal guns in villagers' houses.  That's something Rudolf should take into account in choosing a new place to live, if he is freed from the case and divorced from his party girl wife.

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Edited by Dogmatix
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People (myself included) first thought the "Money! Money!" statement meant it was a robbery attempt, but it also could have been that the Thai man was angry and wanted a return on the money he had given the wife.  

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I don't put much stock in the theory that maybe 'maa nii' was mistaken for 'money'. These two words may sound similar to the untrained ear, but Rudolph has been living in country for over 10 years, and reportedly spoke Thai. Thais pronounce 'money' as MUN-ni with emphasis on the first syllable, whereas 'maa nii') is pronounced maa-NII with the emphasis on the second syllable (because it is high tone).

 

I don't think the hand gestures you would use to command someone to 'come here' would be the same hand gestures you would use you if you were demanding money from someone at gun point. Also, he reportedly said "money, money, money" immediately after he had jumped over the 120 cm high exterior wall. If he had been commanding Rudolph to "come here" that would mean he was telling him to get up from where he was sitting and move towards the intruder who was standing just inside the exterior wall. That doesn't make much sense to me.

 

Edited by Gecko123
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5 minutes ago, bbko said:

People (myself included) first thought the "Money! Money!" statement meant it was a robbery attempt, but it also could have been that the Thai man was angry and wanted a return on the money he had given the wife.  

So Sathian cuckolds Rudolph by sleeping with his wife.  He may have given her money to butter her up.  And then he was unhappy about that, and feels the wife owes him that money.  So... he then demands a repayment from the cuckolded husband???  Even in Thai logic that doesn't add up.

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14 minutes ago, bbko said:

People (myself included) first thought the "Money! Money!" statement meant it was a robbery attempt, but it also could have been that the Thai man was angry and wanted a return on the money he had given the wife.  

From what the deceased's family are saying the wife would have used the deceased money to pay the 300k bail, if he really had 290k on him which disappeared. Much speculation is possible. Did she lure him to the house to have him killed, as someone in the video claimed? Got bored with him and wanted the the 290k

she knew was in his pocket?  Did she arrange for him to murder Rudolf and make it look like a robbery? Having witnesses hear him say money money might be helpful here?  Did he just get plastered and took some speed that made him feel like superman and decided to go there to rob the farang? Seeing as Rudolf knew him, this would be bizarre but with enough drink and dope, maybe.  Who knows?

    

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@DogmatixRegarding Rudolph's Thai, I admit that after watching his interviews in English I began to have doubts about how good his Thai was as well, but I did see an interview with a neighbor of his who said he could speak Thai, but maybe the neighbor was just being charitable.

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24 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

I don't put much stock in the theory that maybe 'maa nii' was mistaken for 'money'. These two words may sound similar to the untrained ear, but Rudolph has been living in country for over 10 years, and reportedly spoke Thai. Thais pronounce 'money' as MUN-ni with emphasis on the first syllable, whereas 'maa nii') is pronounced maa-NII with the emphasis on the second syllable (because it is high tone).

 

I don't think the hand gestures you would use to command someone to 'come here' would be the same hand gestures you would use you if you were demanding money from someone at gun point. Also, he reportedly said "money, money, money" immediately after he had jumped over the 120 cm high exterior wall. If he had been commanding Rudolph to "come here" that would mean he was telling him to get up from where he was sitting and move towards the intruder who was standing just inside the exterior wall. That doesn't make much sense to me.

Perhaps it would indeed be difficult to confuse maa nii with money but I haven't see anything that says Rudolf can speak Thai.  He appears not to understand the questions the Amarin TV was asking and his wife translates in pijjin English. He speaks only English with the police but that might be advisable in a critical situation to avoid getting difficult questions in Thai. However, he gives the impression of being unable to understand anything said.

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Calling all junior detectives, armchair lawyers, gossiping busybodies and conspiracy theorists; Did the swiss man find out about the farmland secret rendezvous and then knowing the Thai man owned a gun contact him under the ruse he wanted to buy his gun, then like an evil genius pay the innocent victim to a T? 

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3 minutes ago, bbko said:

Calling all junior detectives, armchair lawyers, gossiping busybodies and conspiracy theorists; Did the swiss man find out about the farmland secret rendezvous and then knowing the Thai man owned a gun contact him under the ruse he wanted to buy his gun, then like an evil genius pay the innocent victim to a T? 

Probably not. But the deceased would have had to be completely out of his mind on booze and pills to decide to come to the house with the intention of committing armed robbery against Rudolf who knew him and would obviously recognise him, not to mention the fact that his lover lived there too. The amount of cash Rudolf was likely to keep at home was certainly not worth an armed robbery, unless he intended to murder him and make it look like an armed robbery by arrangement with his lover. 

 

A couple of people in the village said she called Sathien and asked him to come and drink at the house, although she denies this.  They say he had dealings with cash running into hundreds of thousands and it is possible that he was in the habit of carrying the gun in case he got rolled.  Perhaps she did invite him to the house for some reason and he was drunk and got into an altercation with Rudolf, who may have known or been suspicious this was his wife's lover.  Although they could probably barely communicate, perhaps Sathien provoked him into saying something that made Sathie lose face and he pulled out his revolver leading to the fight.  On the other hand, it is not certain that Rudolf knew he was dead until others arrived which would make it less likely he and the wife would concoct a story to make the killing seem more justifiable.   

 

What is certain is that the wife doesn't seem to be telling the truth about her relations with Sathien and the story about her sleeping through the gunshot and commotion is unbelievable.  The mother may also have been told to say she didn't see anything either. 

 

Until more information comes in, I rest my case. 

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two conclusions here,well three actually,but dead men tell no lies...

.!  Rudolph is lying,been lying to himself ever since he was led like a lamb to the slaughter into buying the house and moving up country

 2 Wife,born liar

 

By virtual signalling Rudolph has indeed answered police questioning "was your wife happy in bed with you? Rudolphs reply "not really" "needed a car tyres innertube fitted over my stump to touch the sides"

 

"What position did your wife like"  "doggie fashion"replied Rudolph "when target one was missed target two came into focus"

 

With that Rudolph was led back to the cells ,thanking the police for allowing him to wash his clothes.

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8 hours ago, chrisandsu said:

It’s most likely much more simpler then we think . She went out drinking with the Thai guy she came back and the Swiss guy was angry at her . She then contacts the Thai guy telling him that the Swiss guy is angry and she needs a knight in shinning armour . Thai guy turns up threatening him with the gun (if he wanted to kill him it would be pretty easy) expecting the Swiss guy to get scared and leave town (many farangs have moved on after a threat) Swiss guy fights back and the Thai guy ends up dead . If I was the Swiss guy I would leave those country bumpkins to it and get out of that village asap and leave the bint and the locals to deal with it themselves . 

I'd say a little late for a move. That's especially the case during these restricted travel times.

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14 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

I noticed that Rudolf's wife has a FB page under her real name ลักษณ์ สารีรูป open to the public but unfortunately not much in it. Rudolf is apparently a friend under the name Ruedi Grüter but his page is not open to the public. One of the wife's friends, an older woman, has some pics of herself fooling around with a pistol with her hand dangerously on the trigger. A thorough police search without warning would probably reveal a lot of illegal guns in villagers' houses.  That's something Rudolf should take into account in choosing a new place to live, if he is freed from the case and divorced from his party girl wife.

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Who goes to TH to shack up with an old hag like this?

 

 

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Sounds like a planned murder to me that went wrong, thanks to the bravery of the Swiss pensioner.  He was fighting back and survived. 

He is probably loaded with money and the wife wanted it all. 
 

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On 10/6/2021 at 7:34 PM, robblok said:

But if i was this guy and i was invited to the house of the guys whos wife i was banging id bring a gun or something with me as insurance.

In which case, you'd deserve the same fate as this idiot.

 

If you go to a man's house to bang his wife, and take a loaded gun with you then you deserve everything you get.

 

In my opinion the Thai guy went there to intimidate (or worse) the Swiss guy - I also suspect he was saying Maa Nee not Money - and then bang his missus. Subsequently he got his <deleted> handed to him. I believe the Thai expression for cases like this is Som Nam Naa. Another apt expression might be - if you're gonna be stupid, you'd better be tough.

 

Obviously his trash family are now trying to make a load of cash out of it. He was carrying hundreds of thousands of Baht which is now missing (yeah right), she was giving him money, I need compensating blah blah blah whine whine whine. Typical peasant mentality.

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The husband and wife who bought the one rai of land from Setiyon for 290,000 baht have come forward. They've produced a copy of the sales contract and they're saying they gave Setiyon 40,000 baht as a down payment on September 13th, and the balance of 250,000 on October 1rst, the day before he was killed. The 250,000 has reportedly gone missing.

 

The cops should check the bills that were used to pay Rudolf's 300,000 bail for the fingerprints of the people who bought the land from Setiyon! If their fingerprints are on the bail money that was paid, that would be a huge break through on the case!

 

 

Edited by Gecko123
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9 hours ago, wadman said:

Very well summed up possible scenario.  Exactly what I was thinking as well.  That story of Swiss guy, that it was a random robbery just doesn't sound true.  Even if Rudolph and Sathian had trouble communicating, Rudolph knows of Sathian, so he must have known it wasn't just a random robbery attempt.

 

I doubt Sathian goes to their house often, if at all, certainly not while Rudolph was around.  So why go there that night?  Because the wife asked him too.  Sathian's family reported the same thing.

 

So wife calls Sathian, asking him to come over.  He lives 900 meters away, must have been there inside of 10 minutes.  And then she goes to sleep?

 

It doesn't appear to be an outright attempt of Sathian to kill Rudolph.  Otherwise he would have unloaded his gun as soon as he was face to face with the Swiss.

If the Thai guy had killed Swissie,open and shut case,both wife and Thai guy implicated,phone records would prove. Thai guy heavily intoxicated,how the hell Swissie overpower him?

 

 Swissie made fatal mistake of binding Thai guy up,even he would have realised Thai guy was dead,brought about by Swissie jumping on his stomach,rupturing liver,length of time it took the cops to get there stiff leg syndrome setting in as RM took hold

 

The  Thai wife could well be implicated here,hopefully so,gives Swissie chance to get to court sue wife for funds he provided

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Amarin news report (see post 2 posts above) summarize the suspicious elements of the case as follows:

 

1. Wife had contact with Setiyon on day he died

2. Fight between Rudolph and Setiyon resulted in serious injuries to Setiyon but no wounds to Rudolph

3. No damage to any kitchenware or furniture despite serious altercation

4. Once Rudolph got the gun away from intruder, why didn't he use it to control Sethiyon

5. Why did Lak deny having a close relationship with Setiyon when police questioned her initially?

6. What happened to money that Setiyon received from sale of land?

 

Getting back to the land sale and the missing money, bail of 300,000 baht was paid for Rudolph. Somewhere between 250,000 and 290,000 baht may have been on Setiyon's person at the time of his death. I'm sure the cops are considering the possibility that the missing money was used to pay Rudolph's bail. If the fingerprints of the couple who bought the one rai of land from Setiyon are on the bail money, that would be highly incriminating and would crack this case wide open.

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56 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

In which case, you'd deserve the same fate as this idiot.

 

If you go to a man's house to bang his wife, and take a loaded gun with you then you deserve everything you get.

 

In my opinion the Thai guy went there to intimidate (or worse) the Swiss guy - I also suspect he was saying Maa Nee not Money - and then bang his missus. Subsequently he got his <deleted> handed to him. I believe the Thai expression for cases like this is Som Nam Naa. Another apt expression might be - if you're gonna be stupid, you'd better be tough.

 

Obviously his trash family are now trying to make a load of cash out of it. He was carrying hundreds of thousands of Baht which is now missing (yeah right), she was giving him money, I need compensating blah blah blah whine whine whine. Typical peasant mentality.

Talking about taking a post out of context.

 

Yes if I had to go id take a gun with me or something. I mean if invited to that house by the guy i would still not trust it. That does not give the farang a right to kill me. Only if i point it at him or stuff like that. As for the beating, I personally would not beat a guy that slept with my wife. Id blame my wife and myself not the guy who just took what was offered. If your wife cheats on you then your wife is to blame probably you too and least the guy who did it.

 

But I would not get in a situation like that, I would never be so stupid as to visit the guy whos wife I was banging. I mean that is just crazy and stupid. I also would not be banging a guys wife (though I have in the past but as i said not my fault got offered did not know at the past but even if i did i would not care who knows what is agreed in a marriage). But seriously why would anyone get in a relation long term with a married woman.

 

I have no idea what happened and if the Swiss is guilty or not. Ill wait for the investigation. 

 

The one strange thing in this case is that the dead guy has serious injuries and the older guy the Swiss has none and according to the Swiss guy the Thai had a gun. No idea how the Swiss guy can handle an younger guy with a gun and not have any wounds. Lets see what comes up.

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17 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Amarin news report (see post 2 posts above) summarize the suspicious elements of the case as follows:

 

1. Wife had contact with Setiyon on day he died

2. Fight between Rudolph and Setiyon resulted in serious injuries to Setiyon but no wounds to Rudolph

3. No damage to any kitchenware or furniture despite serious altercation

4. Once Rudolph got the gun away from intruder, why didn't he use it to control Sethiyon

5. Why did Lak deny having a close relationship with Setiyon when police questioned her initially?

6. What happened to money that Setiyon received from sale of land?

 

Getting back to the land sale and the missing money, bail of 300,000 baht was paid for Rudolph. Somewhere between 250,000 and 290,000 baht may have been on Setiyon's person at the time of his death. I'm sure the cops are considering the possibility that the missing money was used to pay Rudolph's bail. If the fingerprints of the couple who bought the one rai of land from Setiyon are on the bail money, that would be highly incriminating and would crack this case wide open.

I find the second suspicious thing most worrying. Serious wounds on the Thai none on the foreigner even though he was older and the Thai (according to the story had a gun to begin with). Could have been a setup of an angry foreigner that a Thai was having sex with his wife. If so its no self defense. 

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