Paetongtarn Shinawatra: the new heir of Thailand’s controversial political dynasty

[djayz]

2 hours ago, BusyB said:

Democracy has its problems yes.

I deliberately held back from citing Trump in my line-up because a) I couldn't be bothered with the faecalstorm even if it wouldn't bother me - I didn't want to give the twerps ammunition, and b) because democracy generally has ways of sorting out these scumbags without massacring their own populations.

It is a preferable system to me anyway. And in this era of polarization too many forget just how much good Thaksin did for the general Thai population. I knew a woman who worked the fields for decades with a bad knee and was in constant pain because they couldn't afford treatment ... the 30 baht program was a godsend for her. Just as one minuscule example.

And you missed Johnson, Rees-Mogg et al in your line-up ;D

As an afterthought, I would point out that systems where people are elected into power on a minority of the vote can hardly be called democratic can they? That applies to the UK and the US and is why both countries are deteriorating so badly. In their own ways, their systems are as rigged as Thailand's. And with exactly the same aim in mind.

 

I agree with you, democracy is the better option, but it's not perfect - contrary to public opinion. 

[Phoenix Rising]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It's always amusing when newbies know everything better. Did you live in Thailand while Thaksin and his cronies were in charge? 

And where does your information come from that the generals are tenfold worse? Hearsay? Thaksin's PR? Talk in the red village? 

I lived here all the time from the time before Thaksin was in charge, while he was in charge and after he and his little sister was removed. Thailand was divided the most while Thaksin was in charge and his red shirt mob terrorized the country. Good riddance! Another Shinawatra is the last thing Thailand needs. 

And I moved to Thailand during Chuan Leekpai's fist stint as PM (1993) and it's always amusing that noobs such as you think Thaksin was the worst of the worst!????

Thailand has always been divided but it was brought to the surface during the Thaksin administrations when the phrai for the first time really challenged the ammat.

Obviously this was unacceptable to the old elite and, presto, another stream of coups. Obviously, Thailand will not be properly united until that endless cycle is broken. 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Phoenix Rising

[Valentine]

1 hour ago, djayz said:

I agree with you, democracy is the better option, but it's not perfect - contrary to public opinion. 

"democracy is the worst form of government – except for all the others that have been tried"

Winston Churchill

[zzaa09]

8 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

And I moved to Thailand during Chuan Leekpai's fist stint as PM (1993) and it's always amusing that noobs such as you think Thaksin was the worst of the worst!????

Thailand has always been divided but it was brought to the surface during the Thaksin adminisstrations when the phrai for the first time really challenged the ammat.

Obviously this was unacceptable to the old elite and, presto, another stream of coups. Obviously, Thailand will not be properly united until that endless cycle is broken. 

Indeed. Doesn't take much understanding or simple observations that much of the cycle is one and the same. Been of this nature for ages - at least throughout contemporary times in which we refer to.....Ammat.

 

 

[Artisi]

16 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

Indeed. Doesn't take much understanding or simple observations that much of the cycle is one and the same. Been of this nature for ages - at least throughout contemporary times in which we refer to.....Ammat.

 

 

and will remain for the near future, unless there is a full blown major blood-spilling uprising - highly unlikely in the land of smiles, corruption and face-saving.

[MisterTee]

On 10/30/2021 at 1:47 PM, TooPoopedToPop said:

What's her nickname?

   The boy is "Oak".

   Thaksin's sister is "Poo" or something like that.

   There will be frequent "news" stories about this latest standard-bearer of the Shinawatra crime family.

Papa swindles, Mama swindles,

Grandma's a lying thief.

We're all quite shameless,

Yet we're blameless.

For you see it's our belief,

That nowadays the world is rotten,

Honesty has been forgotten.

Fall in love, but after kissing,

Check your purse to see what's missing.               

   

Spot on.

   That little ditty [Kurt Weill, nein?] so perfectly fits the Shins that it could be the campaign song for their last serious attempt to regain power in Thailand.

   The Dragon head is aging dramatically... in recent photos he looks ghastly.

   Whatever the failures and shortcomings of the military gov't, the fact that they nipped a criminal dynasty in the bud will always be a credit to them.

   That said, let them pass on sooner rather than later. They've been in power long enough.

   

[candide]

9 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It's always amusing when newbies know everything better. Did you live in Thailand while Thaksin and his cronies were in charge? 

And where does your information come from that the generals are tenfold worse? Hearsay? Thaksin's PR? Talk in the red village? 

I lived here all the time from the time before Thaksin was in charge, while he was in charge and after he and his little sister was removed. Thailand was divided the most while Thaksin was in charge and his red shirt mob terrorized the country. Good riddance! Another Shinawatra is the last thing Thailand needs. 

Me stupid! Me thought it was the yellow shirts who first started to terrorise the country because they did not like the result of elections.????

Me even more stupid to believe that the red shirts have been created after the 2006 coup, so there were no red shirts while Thaksin was PM! ????

[candide]

44 minutes ago, MisterTee said:

Whatever the failures and shortcomings of the military gov't, the fact that they nipped a criminal dynasty in the bud will always be a credit to them.

There's another way to look at it. Despite his flaws, the fact that Thaksin succeeded in challenging the ammat and in showing average people that their vote counted (and not only the will of the establishment), will always be a credit to him.

Edited October 31, 2021 by candide

[internationalism]

very unexpectedly in the late night statement now they want to amend (not abolish) lese majeste and work to release political prisoners.

I think it's just game on their part.

They are cowards 

https://www.facebook.com/KhaosodEnglish/posts/4845606335458260

Edited October 31, 2021 by internationalism

[pomchop]

Keyboard warriors seem to support the coup crew while thinking that they have some right to tell 
Thai people who they should vote for.....yeah right.

[freedomnow]

They'll dig up some dirt and RUN HER OUT OF TOWN.

[BusyB]

7 hours ago, djayz said:

I agree with you, democracy is the better option, but it's not perfect - contrary to public opinion. 

Oh it's not perfect, but it does have more and less bloody self correctives than any other system I can think of.

This is why it pays to be suspicious of those who try to do away with the correctives ... like the UK, US, Poland, Hungary,  OK it's quite a list ... beware the beginnings ...

It took hundreds of years and many wars and deaths to set up modern democracies. Once you've let go of democracy 'they' will never give it back to you - why should they?

[bendejo]

Paetongtarn Shinawatra: the new heir of Thailand’s controversial political dynasty

 

So he bought a new toupee and gave it a name?

Oops, I thought it said hair.

 

(this thread is turning nasty, thought I'd inject some levity)

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by bendejo

[bendejo]

Is this the daughter he had work at McDonalds for a few months?

Not an original move, though

https://www.laprensalatina.com/hun-sen-prepares-son-for-hand-down-of-power-in-cambodia/

 

I learned a few things about corruption while living in Brazil.  There is the "take all the marbles" style, then there is the "leave enough to make things work" camp.  As a Bkk taxi driver once told me "yes, Thaksin was corrupt but he still improved things."   A few European countries take corruption more seriously than the rest of the world, but IMO all countries are kleptocracies to some degree.  Some people I was friendly with in Indonesia would laugh and say "we're number one!"

 

Problem is the pathway for local projects: every stage the $$$ passes through diminishes the pile.  

There was road project in a popular vacation town in Brazil, with a steep hill (with a crumbling road) connecting the central area to the rest of the world.  There was a project to build a new road.  And they did, it was paved with cobblestone (they love the stuff in Latin America).  Looked very nice.  And then came the first serious rain storm.  Apparently there were no materials providing a foundation for the stones (like sand), some bright lad probably figured "hey, no one is going to pick up a stone and see it isn't there, why waste the money?"  It only took a few hours of rain to have the whole thing come tumbling down, looked like a pile a lego. 

 

 

[internationalism]

another uturn, it looks like there is still division within the party on younger reformists and conservative thaksinistas.

With appointing thaksin daughter as an adviser (also proposing her as a PM candidate) and with support to amend lese majeste and sedition law they were trying to appeal to young generation of voters.

However, thaksin intervention reversed those policies. And probably it would be his former wife, and not his daughter, proposed for the PM.

Puling back now is good sign for Move Forward, because progressive voters won't be split between those 2 parties. 

At the same time Move Forward is reiterating it's principled stance. They are counting on new generation of voters every 4 years

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/pheu-thai-u-turn-on-lese-majeste-law-is-just-part-of-its-fighting-while-kowtowing-strategy/

[seajae]

another puppet for the big boss  so he can still tel everyone what they have to do, until they remove all the shins from the party nothing will change, graft and corruprtion is what made the family

[daveAustin]

On 10/30/2021 at 4:57 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

The problem is that millions of Thais would vote for her because she is the daughter of the fugitive criminal and somehow they hope when she is officially in charge he will be in charge.

And then people ae surprised when they have an incompetent and corrupt government.

TiT - and not only in Thailand.

 

On 10/30/2021 at 2:30 PM, Chad3000 said:

This young woman is not Thailand answer. It is as simple as that.

Find it bemusing folk putting down this lady in favour of the current oppressive regime. She might not be the answer, but I’ll tell you what definitely isn’t, the place being continually held hostage by a self-serving military that affords the people no choice.

 

Forget the pandemic, in the last 30 years at least, Thailand has never been more miserable and out of options. A horrible, dank cloud hangs over the place. Despised the Reds, but don’t forget they fired up after the election was stolen when the Yellows started their thing. 

 

Whatever, my opinion doesn’t really count and neither does the opinion of all the out of touch boomers (mostly) across these pages. Butt out and let the Thais sort it. 

[Dogmatix]

First of all, I hope Thaksin has prepared a room in the Dubai mansion for this daughter, in case she ends up following in her father's and aunt's footsteps. 

 

I guess Thaksin had to pass over his son, Oak. Too much of an airhead and too much baggage.  Even though Thaksin controversially managed to get the Krung Thai Bank money laundering case against Oak dropped, it would be constantly brought up by political opponents.  It was also widely rumoured that Oak was the reason that Thaksin waged the murderous war against drugs that allowed police to murder rival drug dealers as well as a lot of innocents including old ladies and young kids. People claimed he wanted to make drugs unavailable to Oak. Finally Oak is not a family man which also makes him vulnerable to aspersions. 

 

This daughter has some baggage too which opponents will make use of.  Someone at the Ministry of Education was allegedly ordered by Thaksin to get the questions out of the safe for the university entrance exams and make copies for the girl's tutor. So she got into Chula despite not being terribly bright.  There was a lot of fuss made by parents of kids who applied for the same course and were rejected as the scandal came out at the time.  The other daughter I think didn't go to university at all but did a one year diploma in something undemanding at a technical college in South London.  Then, if I recall correctly, there was a scandal because the parents put some income in her name for that year to avoid Thai tax but she wasn't out of the country long enough to get out of the Thai tax net, even though the Revenue Dept gave her the benefit of the doubt. They seem all to be intellectually fairly dumb. 

 

It seems to have pros and cons for PT. For the older faithful rural supporters it cements the image that Thaksin is still the owner of the party and will support it financially. It might bring some younger voters who are too young to remember Thaksin's leadership. On the other hand it is likely to put off middle class voters who would vote for PT, if it represented a forward looking ideological political platform that resonates, rather than merely a backward looking Thaksin owned vehicle whose sole purpose is to bring Thaksin back and will do any deal with anyone to achieve that.  I can see it makes absolute sense to Thaksin, as he only cares about coming back and getting his confiscated money back.  He doesn't give a toss about Thai people and is even prepared to sacrifice his close family members, if he feels risking their freedom or ability to stay in Thailand might help him get back. 

 

[greeneking]

On 10/31/2021 at 7:50 PM, MisterTee said:

 

 

   Whatever the failures and shortcomings of the military gov't, the fact that they nipped a criminal dynasty in the bud will always be a credit to them.

   That said, let them pass on sooner rather than later. They've been in power long enough.

   

'the fact that they nipped a criminal dynasty in the bud....'

Some would say their role has been to support one.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, daveAustin said:

 

Find it bemusing folk putting down this lady in favour of the current oppressive regime. She might not be the answer, but I’ll tell you what definitely isn’t, the place being continually held hostage by a self-serving military that affords the people no choice.

 

Forget the pandemic, in the last 30 years at least, Thailand has never been more miserable and out of options. A horrible, dank cloud hangs over the place. Despised the Reds, but don’t forget they fired up after the election was stolen when the Yellows started their thing. 

 

Whatever, my opinion doesn’t really count and neither does the opinion of all the out of touch boomers (mostly) across these pages. Butt out and let the Thais sort it. 

Thais could vote for honest and competent people. But for whatever reason most Thais seem to prefer corrupt criminals and their families. Amazing Thailand.

[Mavideol]

On 10/30/2021 at 11:15 PM, BusyB said:

Well actually yes.

 

Would you prefer Lukashenko? Putin? Xi?

did you forgot Kim Jong -un   555

[metisdead]

An inflammatory baiting post has been removed as well as the inflammatory replies. 

[zzaa09]

2 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

First of all, I hope Thaksin has prepared a room in the Dubai mansion for this daughter, in case she ends up following in her father's and aunt's footsteps. 

 

I guess Thaksin had to pass over his son, Oak. Too much of an airhead and too much baggage.  Even though Thaksin controversially managed to get the Krung Thai Bank money laundering case against Oak dropped, it would be constantly brought up by political opponents.  It was also widely rumoured that Oak was the reason that Thaksin waged the murderous war against drugs that allowed police to murder rival drug dealers as well as a lot of innocents including old ladies and young kids. People claimed he wanted to make drugs unavailable to Oak. Finally Oak is not a family man which also makes him vulnerable to aspersions. 

 

This daughter has some baggage too which opponents will make use of.  Someone at the Ministry of Education was allegedly ordered by Thaksin to get the questions out of the safe for the university entrance exams and make copies for the girl's tutor. So she got into Chula despite not being terribly bright.  There was a lot of fuss made by parents of kids who applied for the same course and were rejected as the scandal came out at the time.  The other daughter I think didn't go to university at all but did a one year diploma in something undemanding at a technical college in South London.  Then, if I recall correctly, there was a scandal because the parents put some income in her name for that year to avoid Thai tax but she wasn't out of the country long enough to get out of the Thai tax net, even though the Revenue Dept gave her the benefit of the doubt. They seem all to be intellectually fairly dumb. 

 

It seems to have pros and cons for PT. For the older faithful rural supporters it cements the image that Thaksin is still the owner of the party and will support it financially. It might bring some younger voters who are too young to remember Thaksin's leadership. On the other hand it is likely to put off middle class voters who would vote for PT, if it represented a forward looking ideological political platform that resonates, rather than merely a backward looking Thaksin owned vehicle whose sole purpose is to bring Thaksin back and will do any deal with anyone to achieve that.  I can see it makes absolute sense to Thaksin, as he only cares about coming back and getting his confiscated money back.  He doesn't give a toss about Thai people and is even prepared to sacrifice his close family members, if he feels risking their freedom or ability to stay in Thailand might help him get back. 

 

Regardless of the opinions or theories of why this strong and clear attempt at a come back, he has been quite visible by way of a number of Thai alternative outlets - live broadcasts, interviews, discussions, etc - of the last couple of months. And with other subtle movements within the Thai political underbelly, it's quite obvious that something is up. 

More interesting to note, that the very bonded Thaksin infrastructure has never made a play at reconciliation with other political "opposition" camps, preferring to show their truer colours - of which many aren't prepared to recognize. 

[zzaa09]

7 hours ago, internationalism said:

another uturn, it looks like there is still division within the party on younger reformists and conservative thaksinistas.

With appointing thaksin daughter as an adviser (also proposing her as a PM candidate) and with support to amend lese majeste and sedition law they were trying to appeal to young generation of voters.

However, thaksin intervention reversed those policies. And probably it would be his former wife, and not his daughter, proposed for the PM.

Puling back now is good sign for Move Forward, because progressive voters won't be split between those 2 parties. 

At the same time Move Forward is reiterating it's principled stance. They are counting on new generation of voters every 4 years

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/pheu-thai-u-turn-on-lese-majeste-law-is-just-part-of-its-fighting-while-kowtowing-strategy/

There are numerous circles that are sensing the rising change and beckoning a new dawn. 

Though, all will require baby steps - and most certainly will be dependent on the Thai society, as a collective, to reengage/rethink the stringent ideals of being ruled over to a more cultural "people's generated" cooperative. 

 

Don't know if the notions of fresh political identities are warranted to romance, as they might not truly be any different than what has been offered for decades on - success and change won't be born of hypnotic political rhetoric, but more of the population's societal will. 

 

In the meanwhile, it all stands as the usual political theatre and false stage shows [like it is everywhere the world over] not befitting the commons, but instead the expected players. 

[candide]

4 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

First of all, I hope Thaksin has prepared a room in the Dubai mansion for this daughter, in case she ends up following in her father's and aunt's footsteps. 

The context is quite different now. With Prem gone (forever) and the Queen's guard sent back to its provincial barracks, the royalist faction which was the most opposed to Thaksin is unlikely to remain influent. On top of it, and unlike Prem's faction,Thaksin has been a loyal supporter of the current monarch since the early 2000's, and still is.

[bendejo]

11 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thais could vote for honest and competent people.

As a US citizen, I can assure you that rarely do such people appear as a ballot choice.  This is pretty much a worldwide phenomenon.  The cliche is that the cream rises to the top, but so does the scum.

 

 

[zzaa09]

10 hours ago, candide said:

The context is quite different now. With Prem gone (forever) and the Queen's guard sent back to its provincial barracks, the royalist faction which was the most opposed to Thaksin is unlikely to remain influent. On top of it, and unlike Prem's faction,Thaksin has been a loyal supporter of the current monarch since the early 2000's, and still is.

Well understood and should tell you everything one needs to know about the Shinawatra Clan. 

No substantial difference between the traditional ruling elite and themselves. 

And so it goes.

[bannork]

2 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

Well understood and should tell you everything one needs to know about the Shinawatra Clan. 

No substantial difference between the traditional ruling elite and themselves. 

And so it goes.

Spot on. I reckon Thaksin will come up with some juicy pledges to ensure the rural vote, high price guarantees for rice as before ( currently a very low 6 baht a kilo), speedy vaccinations for all, village and community funds revived and expanded under the guise of Covid recovery.

If the party wins big, I  again reckon he'll try to cut a deal with the elite to come back. Progressive parties will be shunted aside as Thaksin forms an alliance with Pravit and Thammanat.

If the remnants of Future Forward still do well, though it's unlikely with the 2 vote system restored, the party could  be dissolved for speeches or social media posts deemed a threat to national security or suchlike.

 

 

[zzaa09]

7 hours ago, bannork said:

Spot on. I reckon Thaksin will come up with some juicy pledges to ensure the rural vote, high price guarantees for rice as before ( currently a very low 6 baht a kilo), speedy vaccinations for all, village and community funds revived and expanded under the guise of Covid recovery.

If the party wins big, I  again reckon he'll try to cut a deal with the elite to come back. Progressive parties will be shunted aside as Thaksin forms an alliance with Pravit and Thammanat.

If the remnants of Future Forward still do well, though it's unlikely with the 2 vote system restored, the party could  be dissolved for speeches or social media posts deemed a threat to national security or suchlike.

 

 

The greater issues remains the controlled and restrictive number/variety of political parties in the mix. 

Most assuredly, these basic democratic principles scare the dickens out of the traditional ruling elite [including the extended Thaksin Mafia], as the squabble among themselves by way of cutthroat positioning and favoritism from high places. 

 

The more things change the more they stay the same. 

The perfect metaphor as such applies to Thai political theatre.