THE WEEK THAT WAS Getting back to normal - not the New Normal just NORMAL!

[amexpat]

54 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Not sure what an antibiotic would do in those circumstances.....

Placebos are often effective. 

 

[connda]

5 hours ago, mommysboy said:

On Saturday I had one of my thankfully rare snot attacks that left me gasping for breath and somewhat like an asthmatic and about to collapse. I was in a cold sweat thinking I was dying.  You don't want to go there, mate!  Get jabbed.

My ex-wife and her husband in the US were fully vaccinated (Moderna) and contracted Covid at the beginning of October.  They were sick for almost a month and neither of them feel well to date. Now, how inconvenient.  They should have never gotten sick.  But they got sick.  So their symptoms should have been mild.  They were not.

No one is going to convince me that these vaccines are either effective, safe, or necessary.  I don't listen to the MSM as it's pretty much pure propaganda and the so-called experts have conflicts of interests, and the regulatory agencies are a revolving door between  Big Pharma executives who take stints as government bureaucrats - which is called regulatory capture. 

The only reason I'm taking a shot is to check off a check-mark that I'm sure will soon be imposed not just on foreign expats, but the entire Thai society.  I fully expect the Thai government to follow in the steps of those governments who are now locking up the unvaccinated members of their societies.  
So yeah - I'll get the shot under duress - Sinopharm as I only care about safety and side-effect and from my own research Sinopharm ranks as having the fewest side-effects by a significant factor when compared to other vaccines and it is based on inactivated vaccine technology that has a long-term positive safety profile.  That alone guides my choice.  Novavax, when it finally hits the market will then become my first choice and for the same reasons.  Inactivated virus and subunit vaccines have establish safety profiles. 
I won't trust any other of these mRNA or Androvirus-vector Covid vaccines that have no long-term safety profiles.  18 months of live trials is not "long-term."  Maybe in 5 to 10 years??? But without long-term safety studies, I don't want them near me or my family.  If others wish to take them - hey, it's your body.  I'm not going to argue anybody's choice of what they are willing to inject into their arms.

As far as I'm concerned the promoted efficacy of any of these vaccines does little but make the masses feel safe.  I do my own analysis of current research and I'm not impressed by any of the efficacy claims.  Safety, side-effects, and government coercion are the only factors driving my vaccine choices.  And that's sad.
So I'll check the check-boxes and wait for the long-term safety of these vaccines to reveal itself over time. 

If they are perfectly safe?  Great.  But why then do the vaccine manufactures need to have global governments provide them with a complete liability shield.  They're completely safe?  Right?

But if hey are not?  Then let the chips fall where they may.

Edited November 22, 2021 by connda

[BritManToo]

I had double Pfizer (65), not because I was scared of COVID, but because compliance is likely to be forced, it was free and I'm not worrying about what happens in 5-10 years because I doubt I have 5 years left (no side effects at all).

 

My misses (40) had AZ Saturday, and was feverish all evening/night.

My daughter (23) had AZ on Friday and was rushed to hospital yesterday .... joints aching, heart racing, weak and feverish. 

 

I also wonder what will happen when 100% are vaccinated and the COVID numbers keep rising. How many boosters will we be forced to take?

Edited November 23, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[connda]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

My misses (40) had AZ Saturday, and was feverish all evening/night.

My daughter (23) had AZ on Friday and was rushed to hospital yesterday .... joints aching, heart racing, weak and feverish. 

My best wishes.  I hope they get better soon without any adverse problems.  You and I are at the end of the road and embrace it.  But a 23 and 40 year old have a whole lot of life left to enjoy. 

[roger101]

If people want the freedom to choose if they have the vaccine then businesses should have the choice of refusing them entry.

[crouchpeter]

21 hours ago, connda said:

[removed by moderator]

You're happy to have the rabies vaccine, which only partially protects, and you still definitely need boosters if you get bitten. So, similarly, the Covid vaccines give partial protection, except you may or may not need treatment if you become infected.

[huangnon]

On 11/21/2021 at 12:34 PM, BritManToo said:

So do fat people.

Yup. Life is like a box of chocolates.

 

-It doesn't last long if you're fat.

[VBF]

 

The vaccines are not a guarantee against getting Covid and without them, it's very possible that they may have been hospitalised (you didn't say) or worse, died.

 

So i have to disagree (though you are of course entitled to your opinion) The numbers getting side-effects are just too small to make them relevant. Nobody I know either personally or through others has had any serious side-effects.. I had a sore arm from each shot (expected) and from one of the AZ shots, I got slight "shivers" the next day. Of course it was a cold day and may not even have been that! Sadly, nothing is perfect and we all learn from our own experiences but on balance, i remain pro-vax. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[onthedarkside]

A pair of COVID vaccine related posts -- one with vaccine misinformation from a dubious source and the other without any sources or attribution at all -- have been removed.

 

[VBF]

On 11/22/2021 at 9:08 AM, BritManToo said:

I had double Pfizer (65), not because I was scared of COVID, but because compliance is likely to be forced, it was free and I'm not worrying about what happens in 5-10 years because I doubt I have 5 years left (no side effects at all).

 

My misses (40) had AZ Saturday, and was feverish all evening/night.

My daughter (23) had AZ on Friday and was rushed to hospital yesterday .... joints aching, heart racing, weak and feverish. 

 

I also wonder what will happen when 100% are vaccinated and the COVID numbers keep rising. How many boosters will we be forced to take?

I suspect so this is only "IMO" that there will be annual boosters, much like annual 'flu jabs.  In UK we're being offed our flu jabs alongside the Covid booster.

Possibly the model for future years?

[onthedarkside]

A post with misleading conclusions about COVID vaccines has been removed.

 

The latest and current research on COVID vaccines, especially the mRNA ones, DO show that they have a substantial preventive effect that makes it less likely the vaccinated will contract the virus in the first place, even with Delta. That's in addition to also substantially protecting against serious illness and death from COVID.

 

What some other research lately also has suggested is that ONCE vaccinated and unvaccinated people both happen to become infected with COVID especially from the Delta variant (which is much less likely with the vaccinated), both COVID infected groups have the potential to spread the virus to others, and may have similar peak viral loads.

 

That notwithstanding, it's misleading and incorrect to claim that the current vaccines don't play a substantial role in protecting the vaccinated from becoming infected.  lt's not 100% protection, but it's still a substantial level of protection. See below:

 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7046a4.htm

 

"During the July–September 2021 surveillance period, SARS-CoV-2 infection occurred among 4,146 of 137,616 unvaccinated persons (30.1 per 1,000 persons) and 3,009 of 344,848 fully vaccinated persons (8.7 per 1,000). Incidence was higher among unvaccinated persons than among vaccinated persons across all demographic strata."

 

[Thai Dan]

18 minutes ago, onthedarkside said:

A post with misleading conclusions about COVID vaccines has been removed.

 

The latest and current research on COVID vaccines, especially the mRNA ones, DO show that they have a substantial preventive effect that makes it less likely the vaccinated will contract the virus in the first place, even with Delta.

 

What some other research lately also has suggested is that ONCE vaccinated and unvaccinated people both happen to become infected with COVID (which is less likely with the vaccinated), both COVID infected groups have the potential to spread the virus to others, and may have similar peak viral loads.

 

That notwithstanding, it's misleading and incorrect to claim that the current vaccines don't play a substantial role in protecting the vaccinated from becoming infected.  lt's not 100% protection, but it's still a substantial level of protection. See below:

 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7046a4.htm

 

"During the July–September 2021 surveillance period, SARS-CoV-2 infection occurred among 4,146 of 137,616 unvaccinated persons (30.1 per 1,000 persons) and 3,009 of 344,848 fully vaccinated persons (8.7 per 1,000). Incidence was higher among unvaccinated persons than among vaccinated persons across all demographic strata."

 

Your comment says essentially the same thing I was trying to get across, and I also appreciate the link to the CDC paper.  The difference lies in the words "infected" vs "transmissibility".  Vaccinated people are better protected, but transmissibility is not diminished.  The virus is in the air we breathe.

[SiSePuede419]

Normal nostalgia.

 

Nostalgia is about glorifying a time in history that was worse than now.

 

Normal didn't protect us, but you want to "return" to it.

 

Meanwhile, the educated people have already figured that out.

 

That's why they call it the New Normal.

 

Hope this helps. ????

[The Hammer2021]

On 11/21/2021 at 12:31 PM, BritManToo said:

Tell that to the dead 'hero doctor'.

Which isn't reason for you to force others to take it.

Their body, their risk, their personal freedom which is more important than culture.

In absolute terms it might not  guarantee to prevent  transmission anymore than a flu vaccine but the Covid-19 vaccines mitigate against infection, serious illness and quantity of viral load in circulation so it does limit the chances of transmission in the community. Immunization is a numbers game not a disjointed solo effort.

[The Hammer2021]

On 11/23/2021 at 5:47 PM, Thai Dan said:

Your comment says essentially the same thing I was trying to get across, and I also appreciate the link to the CDC paper.  The difference lies in the words "infected" vs "transmissibility".  Vaccinated people are better protected, but transmissibility is not diminished.  The virus is in the air we breathe.

The more people that are protected means less viral load in circulation.

[The Hammer2021]

On 11/22/2021 at 4:08 PM, BritManToo said:

I had double Pfizer (65), not because I was scared of COVID, but because compliance is likely to be forced, it was free and I'm not worrying about what happens in 5-10 years because I doubt I have 5 years left (no side effects at all).

 

My misses (40) had AZ Saturday, and was feverish all evening/night.

My daughter (23) had AZ on Friday and was rushed to hospital yesterday .... joints aching, heart racing, weak and feverish. 

 

I also wonder what will happen when 100% are vaccinated and the COVID numbers keep rising. How many boosters will we be forced to take?

'Forced' to take? I imagine it will be the same as Flu..yearly

Most of the childhood vaccines we got need renewing including, TB, Tetanuts and a whole host of others..

[KhunLA]

6 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

'Forced' to take? I imagine it will be the same as Flu..yearly

Most of the childhood vaccines we got need renewing including, TB, Tetanuts and a whole host of others..

They were actually vaccines, and providing quite a bit of immunity.

 

These new things, apparently don't work very well, as don't seem to protected anyone from getting or spreading the virus.

[The Hammer2021]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

They were actually vaccines, and providing quite a bit of immunity.

 

These new things, apparently don't work very well, as don't seem to protected anyone from getting or spreading the virus.

Its early days in the fight against covid. The first smallpox vaccines were not as efficient as the later ones but they helped lead to the eventual eradication of smallpox. The current anti Covid-19 vaccines though not perfect help with the fight against covid along with other measures. It's a shame the debate has been unduly influenced by the 'new world order nutters', amplified by social media and hindered by woefully inadequate leadership

[sirineou]

On 11/21/2021 at 9:54 AM, fangless said:

You did indeed!

Many words , ????

[KhunLA]

32 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Its early days in the fight against covid. The first smallpox vaccines were not as efficient as the later ones but they helped lead to the eventual eradication of smallpox. The current anti Covid-19 vaccines though not perfect help with the fight against covid along with other measures. It's a shame the debate has been unduly influenced by the 'new world order nutters', amplified by social media and hindered by woefully inadequate leadership

People should stop comparing old vaccines to these new things / mRNAs.  Defeats the purpose of any discussion.

 

Simple, if you think you are at risk, and they will help ... enjoy

If not ... give them a pass.

 

Name calling also defeats any attempt at intelligent conversation, and most intelligent people will just ignore further conversation on the subject with you.  

 

Have a nice day.

Edited December 22, 2021 by KhunLA

[BritManToo]

35 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

The first smallpox vaccines were not as efficient as the later ones but they helped lead to the eventual eradication of smallpox.

Smallpox killed 90% of everyone that caught it.

COVID kills 1-2% of the sick and old that catch it, and most of the others don't even know they had it.

 

They are hardly comparable.

Edited December 22, 2021 by BritManToo

[HashBrownHarry]

On 11/22/2021 at 9:08 AM, BritManToo said:

How many boosters will we be forced to take?

Were you 'forced' to take the first two shots?