'Do your own research / I do my own research' has become code for conspiracy theory followers

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, Khabib said:

Oh no, there's that "do the own research" thing again. I think it's certainly a red flag 555

I think you're missing the point.  Do your own research has become a slogan of the far right when it comes to vaccines.  Sadly, cemeteries are filling up with people who's headstone reads:

 

I did my own research

[Khabib]

6 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

What do you want to know?

I'll do my own research, thanks 55

[Khabib]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

How is longitudinal data either important or relevant to prove that the vaccines are working. Now you are just spreading lies, willfully and deliberately. You KNOW that vaccines GREATLY reduce infection and transmission but you attempt to deceive but not providing context. Disgusting. Snake oil is what you are peddling.

A fact I can present is, personally I know of noone in the uk or here who has ended up in ICU or worse from covid. And I don't know anyone who knows anyone personally either. However, my best childhood friends uncle, fully vaccinated ended up in hospital with DVT, and then caught covid in the hospital which then put him in ICU. Thats the only real life evidence I have.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Marcomilton7 said:

 

I'm not a anti vaxxer my friend. I show the same amount of respect to someone, who is vaxxed or unvaxxed. The aggression is always from people pushing the government narrative. Normally people who've had no respect from others in their lifetime, and now having a field day barking orders at others, and herding others about. It makes them feel like the big important man they never were,or will everbe

If you want to criticise others, start by justifying your lies with evidence.

[Jeffr2]

Just now, Marcomilton7 said:

 

I'm not a anti vaxxer my friend. I show the same amount of respect to someone, who is vaxxed or unvaxxed. The aggression is always from people pushing the government narrative. Normally people who've had no respect from others in their lifetime, and now having a field day barking orders at others, and herding others about. It makes them feel like the big important man they never were,or will everbe

The government narrative?  You mean the scientific and health narrative?  I've got no respect for someone who refuses the jab.  None.  They're putting others lives at risk and mostly due to misinformation.  It's not just me, look at Germany and other countries.  If you aren't vaxxed, stay at home.  Makes sense.  The majority of us don't want unvaxxed people spreading the virus around.

[Jeffr2]

Just now, Khabib said:

A fact I can present is, personally I know of noone in the uk or here who has ended up in ICU or worse from covid. And I don't know anyone who knows anyone personally either. However, my best childhood friends uncle, fully vaccinated ended up in hospital with DVT, and then caught covid in the hospital which then put him in ICU. Thats the only real life evidence I have.

Your personal experience isn't what's important.  Though I seriously doubt what you way.  The family and friends of millions who've died understand.

[Marcomilton7]

9 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Explain how longitudinal data is relevant to the topic or coronavirus vaccines.

If you dont believe longitudinal field data is relevant to vaccine roll outs, you shouldn't be giving it the aggression 'I'm the big man' syndrome 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Marcomilton7 said:

If you dont believe longitudinal field data is relevant to vaccine roll outs, you shouldn't be giving it the aggression 'I'm the big man' syndrome 

Do you even know what the term means? Explain how it's relevant to preventing infection among millions of people.

[Saanim]

7 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Wow...stretching it a bit there aren't we?  LOL  NY Times just reports the news, doesn't create it.  I seem to remember it was politicians who said there were WMD.  Not something created by the NYT. LOL.  Amazing stretch there...

Isn't the main purpose of the media to control and to question the politicians? 

BTW, the position of the NYT (and some others either) in this case (and not only in this) hasn't been just a simple "reporting",  has it? 

[Khabib]

5 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Your personal experience isn't what's important.  Though I seriously doubt what you way.  The family and friends of millions who've died understand.

Well, let's try and keep our chin up. On a potentially positive development, this omicron could be a blessing in disguise. It has mutated with part of the cold virus, and symptoms seem to be mild so far. Perhaps the common cold is fighting back against covid, because covid is killing too many of its customers. Fingers crossed! And if that happens, the pandemic is over.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Khabib
Additional

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, Saanim said:

Isn't the main purpose of the media to control and to question the politicians? 

BTW, the position of the NYT (and some others either) in this case (and not only in this) hasn't been just a simple "reporting",  has it? 

No.  The main purpose of media outlets is to report events.  But yes, to a certain extent hold politicians accountable.  Which they do quite well.  If you read the proper ones.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Saanim said:

Isn't the main purpose of the media to control and to question the politicians? 

No, it's to impart truthful information and reporting to the public. It may be biased but reputed MSM doesn't tell lies and do retract stories when they are disproven.

 

1 minute ago, Saanim said:

BTW, the position of the NYT (and some others either) in this case (and not only in this) hasn't been just a simple "reporting",  has it? 

Yes it has.

[Jeffr2]

Just now, Khabib said:

Well, let's try and keep our chin up. On a potentially positive development, this omicron could be a blessing in disguise. It has mutated with part of the cold virus, and symptoms seem to be mild so far. Perhaps the common cold is fighting back against covid, because covid is killing too many of its customers. Fingers crossed!

Jeez...it's not been proven to be mild yet.  Perhaps, but if more transmissible, it will be more deadly as more will end up hospitalized, in the ICU, and dead.  Time will tell.

[blackprince]

It's true as Jing states in his OP that there is a distinction between those who are driven by data (facts) and those who are driven by fake news.

 

But that's only part of the story.

 

These  days there are so many legitimate stats on the net, that it's possible to construct different narratives which are all true, and this is especially true of stats on covid which change every day.

 

Many heated exchanges on this forum arise because of these different but legitimate narratives.

 

This is another reason to emphasise that tolerance of diversity of opinion is core to Liberalism. Anyone who cannot tolerate dissent and diversity cannot honestly call themselves Liberal.

 

Of course, many people are not Liberals and do not call themselves Liberal, and as a Liberal of half a century's standing I must defend their right to define themselves as they wish.

[Khabib]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

Jeez...it's not been proven to be mild yet.  Perhaps, but if more transmissible, it will be more deadly as more will end up hospitalized, in the ICU, and dead.  Time will tell.

So far the (only anecdotal evidence) is suggesting this. But you're right, more time is needed. I'm just hoping the common cold will give the world the best Christmas present they've had for a long time.

[KhunLA]

5 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

No.  The main purpose of media outlets is to report events.  But yes, to a certain extent hold politicians accountable.  Which they do quite well.  If you read the proper ones.

That may be how things used to be ... maybe.  But it seems the news media today is here to sell, through fear, and obviously, very effective.  IMHO

 

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by KhunLA

[ozimoron]

Just now, blackprince said:

It's true as Jing states in his OP that there is a distinction between those who are driven by data (facts) and those who are driven by fake news.

 

But that's only part of the story.

 

These  days there are so many legitimate stats on the net, that it's possible to construct different narratives which are all true, and this is especially true of stats on covid which change every day.

 

Many heated exchanges on this forum arise because of these different but legitimate narratives.

 

This is another reason to emphasise that tolerance of diversity of opinion is core to Liberalism. Anyone who cannot tolerate dissent and diversity cannot honestly call themselves Liberal.

 

Of course, many people are not Liberals and do not call themselves Liberal, and as a Liberal of half a century's standing I must defend their right to define themselves as they wish.

Do you agree that there is a difference between dissent and propaganda? Do you likewise support propaganda as free speech?

[Khabib]

And anyway, I prefer optimistic conspiracies.

[Jeffr2]

Just now, Khabib said:

So far the (only anecdotal evidence) is suggesting this. But you're right, more time is needed. I'm just hoping the common cold will give the world the best Christmas present they've had for a long time.

Hospitalizations are up 4 times from a week ago or so.  It's been proven to be more transmissible.  The question now is will it be more deadly.  But easy to extrapolate more cases=more hospitalizations=more deaths.  I surely hope not, but don't want false hope as is pushed by some dodgy media outlets.  Or by those who only read the headlines, not the details.

[ozimoron]

Just now, KhunLA said:

That may be how things used to be ... maybe.  But it seems the news media today is here to sell, through fear, and obviously, very effective.  IMHO

And yet fear and outrage are the tools of trade that the far right websites capitalise upon but I don't see any acknowledgment or push back against them.

[blackprince]

Just now, ozimoron said:

Do you agree that there is a difference between dissent and propaganda? Do you likewise support propaganda as free speech?

I have answered that questions 5 times in the last few days. In fact I answered it in the post that you half-quoted.

[Stubby]

Be Careful What You Believe, Folks
 

It's easy to label a person a conspiracy theorist because they disagree with you. 

 

Because a "credible voice" backed by big money says something is true, that doesn't always mean it is. It might be, but it might not be, too. See, many researchers get paid to manipulate the facts, and that is a FACT. But there will be some who think only a conspiracy theorist could say such a thing. 

 

BTW, Doctoring Data by Dr. Malcolm Kendrick is a real eye-opener... for the open-minded. 

 

THE DIET-HEART HYPOTHESIS

 

The world got big and sick because we all believed the Ancel Keys diet-heart hypothesis. That's aside from Ancel, of course. There was nothing that bloke enjoyed more than a fried breakfast to kickstart the day. Yet there are still people who believe his Seven Countries Study nonsense. 
 

What about you?
 

Do you still think saturated fat clogs the arteries and leads to obesity, heart attack, and stroke? 
 

Again, be careful what you believe, folks.

 

WHAT MAKES US BELIEVE?

 

Well... when a person decides to believe in a thing—especially older people—they shut their mind off to anything contrary. Worse still, they look for material that supports and reinforces their agenda, be it true or false. Ahem... memes posters are a classic example of this.

 

It matters not how compelling a counterargument might be with some folks. Those who don't want something to be true will refuse to believe it... or even hear it. That's when you become locked in the 'Single-Minded Prison.

 

Again, be careful what you believe, folks, because humans are experts at lying.

 

Stubby

Edited December 6, 2021 by Stubby

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

That may be how things used to be ... maybe.  But it seems the news media today is here to sell, through fear, and obviously, very effective.  IMHO

Bad news sells.  Good news doesn't.  Been like that forever.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, blackprince said:

I have answered that questions 5 times in the last few days. In fact I answered it in the post that you half-quoted.

I'll take that as a no then since you choose to obfuscate.

[Khabib]

2 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Bad news sells.  Good news doesn't.  Been like that forever.

Maybe a niche market is now available to tap. Fancy starting up a happynews.com website with me 55

[blackprince]

Just now, ozimoron said:

I'll take that as a no then since you choose to obfuscate.

I haven't obfuscated. I have given you a clear answer.

You have chosen to omit the part of my post that answers your question.

You have done this several times in the last few days.

 

[Saanim]

6 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

No.  The main purpose of media outlets is to report events.  But yes, to a certain extent hold politicians accountable.  Which they do quite well.  If you read the proper ones.

I think that not many people had believed the MSM "reports" that time, even if they did not have their "own research" (as the MSM are having), just by a common sense by "cui bono"....

[Jeffr2]

Just now, Khabib said:

Maybe a niche market is now available to tap. Fancy starting up a happynews.com website with me 55

I remember years ago when this was tried.  It failed miserably!  Sadly....

 

I try to stick to the credible outlets.  And avoid opinion pieces.  Unless ones done by experts.  And I vet my news checking it against numerous sources.  Not all are news outlets.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, blackprince said:

I haven't obfuscated. I have given you a clear answer.

You have chosen to omit the part of my post that answers your question.

You have done this several times in the last few days.

 

Show me how it answers my question.

Edited December 6, 2021 by ozimoron

[Khabib]

I think the view of the world has been tainted for everyone in the last two years. I think many conspiracy theories just add to the misery. I try to keep an open mind, and a happy disposition the best I can in these dark times.