Buying a (semi) professional coffee machine

[rudi49jr]

My girlfriend wants to open a little coffee shop, and she’s looking for a coffee machine that can make espresso, grind the coffee, froth the milk, things like that. Of course she’s looking at the the expensive machines of 100,000 baht and more, but I was curious if anyone knows of any less expensive (but still good) machines in the 25,000 - 35,000 baht range. 
I’d be surprised if she would sell more than 100 cups a day, maybe 150 cups on a very good day tops, so it’s not as if she needs a machine that can churn out 50-60 cups of coffee an hour. 
Anyone know a good coffee machine in that price range? She’s located in Hua Hin, by the way, so Makro and Big C and stores like that are close.

[RAZZELL]

One of the biggest in Thailand -  

 

https://www.boncafe.co.th/en/home/

 

They even do courses/training.

 

Seems they have a branch in Hua Hin.

 

https://www.facebook.com/BoncafeHuaHin/

 

RAZZ

[tonray]

I would take a serious look at Breville machines. I did this research last year when my GF's mom was thinking about turning her little food shop into a coffee/drink/dessert shop instead, but never carried thru. They seem to have good international reputation and have the all-in-one machines that are quite popular and well reviewed.

 

https://www.brevillethailand.com/en/category/9461/138/coffee-machine-amp-grinder

[Kenny202]

2 minutes ago, tonray said:

I would take a serious look at Breville machines. I did this research last year when my GF's mom was thinking about turning her little food shop into a coffee/drink/dessert shop instead, but never carried thru. They seem to have good international reputation and have the all-in-one machines that are quite popular and well reviewed.

 

https://www.brevillethailand.com/en/category/9461/138/coffee-machine-amp-grinder

Breville wont cut it

[Kenny202]

If I were you Id be looking for something on FB marketplace second hand. You are not the first farang husband here who's wife wanted a coffee shop and there is a ton of used stuff for sale. Usual scenario wife takes selfies for the first week as the new business owner then loses interest as Thais generally aren't willing to pay 40 baht plus for a coffee, and in reality to cover overheads, rent etc in a mall or busy area you will need to be selling for 60 baht plus and have a lot of add on product (Cakes, snacks etc). Coffee machines are one of those things. 2 categories, good and useless. Forget the machines that grind and make the coffee, they are toys. You need something with a brass boiler, quality components and it needs to heat for at least 30 minutes before use. 100 cups a day is fairly high turnover for Thailand...to be honest (respectfully) Id say she's dreaming. If it were me Id be going for something low tech but good construction. Find something suits your budget and check the reviews. A proper burr grinder is as important if not more important than the machine and will set you back at least 20000 baht. Again secondhand is ur friend. If you get a decent machine it will be robust and generally easy to repair. Make sure it is a known machine in Thailand for spares, service etc. Other thing you need to consider is how many head machine you are going to need. If she is thinking 50-100 cups an hour she will be getting several customers at once (they don't come one at a time in a timely manner) and making coffee one serve a time will make the process difficult and annoying to the customers. A single group head dispenser wont be enough. I would say two at the least and a new machine like this, even low tech is not going to be available for 35k. There is quite a lot to making decent coffee and it goes far and beyond a good machine and grinder. If you are investing in this you need to make sure she has some training. Grinder and grind control to suit your machine is imperative. Tamping...Good quality beans. Minimizing wastage. I would definitely be looking for an Italian quality built simple machine that was well reviewed. There is no such thing as a semi commercial set up. Coffee is either good or <deleted>, there is no in between unfortunately. Forget any domestic style machines (Breville etc). You may as well use Nescafe. They look nice but that's as far as it goes.  

 

Really mate I have NEVER seen a coffee shop here doing those sorts of numbers, not unless she was in a busy mall with great coffee. Apart from some decent shops in Bangkok I would say I have never had a decent cup of store coffee here that was better than a 14 baht 7/11 3 in one. Usually bitter and awful. I would say have a real think about what her real usage is going to be. And forgive me if she has some experience at this and you do know for a fact the turnover is going to be as she says. If not, and she will only be doing a few random cups here and there you may be better off with a decent 6 cup Moka (Stovetop) pot, a decent grinder and a milk frother. Will be a much better result than a so so machine with a so so grinder which is only being used a few times a day.

 

One other way to consider is a Nespresso machine with the little pods. It is an expensive way to make coffee for a shop (10-15 baht a pod) but will be easy for her and a guaranteed decent shot every time. Easy storage, no waste, electricity usage way lower and no need to grind. She will need to be selling for 65 baht or so a shot though. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Kenny202

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

My girlfriend wants to open a little coffee shop,

Suggests she opens a smoothie shop, under 2,000bht for a blender.

Less money to lose than a coffee machine.

[1FinickyOne]

15 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Suggests she opens a smoothie shop, under 2,000bht for a blender.

Less money to lose than a coffee machine.

coffee flavored smoothies? Good idea... 

[blackcab]

Boncafe offer a range of machines for rent, with maintenance included in the deal. If you purchase a high enough volume of coffee, the machine rent and maintenance is free.

[G Rex]

1 hour ago, Kenny202 said:

If I were you Id be looking for something on FB marketplace second hand. You are not the first farang husband here who's wife wanted a coffee shop and there is a ton of used stuff for sale. Usual scenario wife takes selfies for the first week as the new business owner then loses interest as Thais generally aren't willing to pay 40 baht plus for a coffee, and in reality to cover overheads, rent etc in a mall or busy area you will need to be selling for 60 baht plus and have a lot of add on product (Cakes, snacks etc). Coffee machines are one of those things. 2 categories, good and useless. Forget the machines that grind and make the coffee, they are toys. You need something with a brass boiler, quality components and it needs to heat for at least 30 minutes before use. 100 cups a day is fairly high turnover for Thailand...to be honest (respectfully) Id say she's dreaming. If it were me Id be going for something low tech but good construction. Find something suits your budget and check the reviews. A proper burr grinder is as important if not more important than the machine and will set you back at least 20000 baht. Again secondhand is ur friend. If you get a decent machine it will be robust and generally easy to repair. Make sure it is a known machine in Thailand for spares, service etc. Other thing you need to consider is how many head machine you are going to need. If she is thinking 50-100 cups an hour she will be getting several customers at once (they don't come one at a time in a timely manner) and making coffee one serve a time will make the process difficult and annoying to the customers. A single group head dispenser wont be enough. I would say two at the least and a new machine like this, even low tech is not going to be available for 35k. There is quite a lot to making decent coffee and it goes far and beyond a good machine and grinder. If you are investing in this you need to make sure she has some training. Grinder and grind control to suit your machine is imperative. Tamping...Good quality beans. Minimizing wastage. I would definitely be looking for an Italian quality built simple machine that was well reviewed. There is no such thing as a semi commercial set up. Coffee is either good or <deleted>, there is no in between unfortunately. Forget any domestic style machines (Breville etc). You may as well use Nescafe. They look nice but that's as far as it goes.  

 

Really mate I have NEVER seen a coffee shop here doing those sorts of numbers, not unless she was in a busy mall with great coffee. Apart from some decent shops in Bangkok I would say I have never had a decent cup of store coffee here that was better than a 14 baht 7/11 3 in one. Usually bitter and awful. I would say have a real think about what her real usage is going to be. And forgive me if she has some experience at this and you do know for a fact the turnover is going to be as she says. If not, and she will only be doing a few random cups here and there you may be better off with a decent 6 cup Moka (Stovetop) pot, a decent grinder and a milk frother. Will be a much better result than a so so machine with a so so grinder which is only being used a few times a day.

 

One other way to consider is a Nespresso machine with the little pods. It is an expensive way to make coffee for a shop (10-15 baht a pod) but will be easy for her and a guaranteed decent shot every time. Easy storage, no waste, electricity usage way lower and no need to grind. She will need to be selling for 65 baht or so a shot though. 

excellent reply - and a tactful reality check!  

[Gsxrnz]

8 minutes ago, G Rex said:

excellent reply - and a tactful reality check!  

A tactful observation of a tactful observation.

 

But unfortunately a gentle slap on the wrist rarely awakens one to reality as much as a sledgehammer to the back of the neck.

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Suggests she opens a smoothie shop, under 2,000bht for a blender.

Less money to lose than a coffee machine.

I think that's the go here, do something the Thais like but do it well. She probably wont make a million bucks but should be a good little consistent business. Even milk teas, or soup..... there is a shop on every corner but most of them awful made cheaply with few low quality ingredient. Even soup. If you do a product right with good ingredients it will sell. A lot will depend on your girls commitment too. She will be looking at least 6 months to 2 years before she works it all out and is making money. There is a woman has a shop across from my Mrs restaurant sells milk teas but she also does fresh fruit juice and juice smoothies in the blender...she asks a premium price too but its good so many people come. Mind you depends on the area to, for eg she is in the Uni area so it is a bit of a more progressive demographic and uni kids have money to spend

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, blackcab said:

Boncafe offer a range of machines for rent, with maintenance included in the deal. If you purchase a high enough volume of coffee, the machine rent and maintenance is free.

I have been here 8 years now and where I live up North, I see businesses going out of business everyday. Usually 3 months and done. They start off with very little capital, no plan or even cost analysis on what they sell....what their profit will be and if they can even break even let alone make money. What really amazes me though is as soon as one falls over seems to be someone eager to take their place and the process is repeated. Even during Covid seeing so many new businesses start up (just as many closing). I have come to the understanding that to have a successful business in Thailand, you would be far better off as a Landlord in a busy area or someone who rents equipment out to the new and inexperienced. You would need a masters in debt collection though or group of thugs to go and collect your money. 

[blackcab]

8 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

I have come to the understanding that to have a successful business in Thailand, you would be far better off as a Landlord in a busy area...

 

That really is the truth of the matter, however the barrier to entry is high.

[Kenny202]

4 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

That really is the truth of the matter, however the barrier to entry is high.

Yep, usually it's desperation where they open a business. And I feel very sorry for many of them. Over 30 here, even with a degree very hard to find employment. Without a degree or college education....the only thing open to you is farm, construction or factory work. You can't even get a job at a small Tesco or 7 without further education. Most of the new owners put the last 20 or 30k they have into starting a business thinking or hoping they will be making money from day dot. With a simple business such as BBQ chicken, moo ping or soup and a bit of experience I guess you could....but they also don't do the math. Maybe they see the money in the till from the days takings and don't consider only 10-20% of that is profit. The rest will be needed to replace the stock they sold, rent, electricity, gas etc. Soon (weeks) they don't have the money to buy the stuff that's needed....menu items become unavailable or food isn't fresh. Sales understandably drop off and the end is inevitable. They end up having to shut up and return to work for someone else, losing what little savings they had and usually a debt with the loan sharks. Must be awful to be poor behind the 8 ball here. 

[RafPinto]

At home

[KC 71]

I just use a couple of these ( Lazada)

you can get a grinder in the deal.I just dont use mine. ( my coffee man pre grinds it for me)

[RafPinto]

2 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

If I were you Id be looking for something on FB marketplace second hand. You are not the first farang husband here who's wife wanted a coffee shop and there is a ton of used stuff for sale. Usual scenario wife takes selfies for the first week as the new business owner then loses interest as Thais generally aren't willing to pay 40 baht plus for a coffee, and in reality to cover overheads, rent etc in a mall or busy area you will need to be selling for 60 baht plus and have a lot of add on product (Cakes, snacks etc). Coffee machines are one of those things. 2 categories, good and useless. Forget the machines that grind and make the coffee, they are toys. You need something with a brass boiler, quality components and it needs to heat for at least 30 minutes before use. 100 cups a day is fairly high turnover for Thailand...to be honest (respectfully) Id say she's dreaming. If it were me Id be going for something low tech but good construction. Find something suits your budget and check the reviews. A proper burr grinder is as important if not more important than the machine and will set you back at least 20000 baht. Again secondhand is ur friend. If you get a decent machine it will be robust and generally easy to repair. Make sure it is a known machine in Thailand for spares, service etc. Other thing you need to consider is how many head machine you are going to need. If she is thinking 50-100 cups an hour she will be getting several customers at once (they don't come one at a time in a timely manner) and making coffee one serve a time will make the process difficult and annoying to the customers. A single group head dispenser wont be enough. I would say two at the least and a new machine like this, even low tech is not going to be available for 35k. There is quite a lot to making decent coffee and it goes far and beyond a good machine and grinder. If you are investing in this you need to make sure she has some training. Grinder and grind control to suit your machine is imperative. Tamping...Good quality beans. Minimizing wastage. I would definitely be looking for an Italian quality built simple machine that was well reviewed. There is no such thing as a semi commercial set up. Coffee is either good or <deleted>, there is no in between unfortunately. Forget any domestic style machines (Breville etc). You may as well use Nescafe. They look nice but that's as far as it goes.  

 

Really mate I have NEVER seen a coffee shop here doing those sorts of numbers, not unless she was in a busy mall with great coffee. Apart from some decent shops in Bangkok I would say I have never had a decent cup of store coffee here that was better than a 14 baht 7/11 3 in one. Usually bitter and awful. I would say have a real think about what her real usage is going to be. And forgive me if she has some experience at this and you do know for a fact the turnover is going to be as she says. If not, and she will only be doing a few random cups here and there you may be better off with a decent 6 cup Moka (Stovetop) pot, a decent grinder and a milk frother. Will be a much better result than a so so machine with a so so grinder which is only being used a few times a day.

 

One other way to consider is a Nespresso machine with the little pods. It is an expensive way to make coffee for a shop (10-15 baht a pod) but will be easy for her and a guaranteed decent shot every time. Easy storage, no waste, electricity usage way lower and no need to grind. She will need to be selling for 65 baht or so a shot though. 

Spot on.

 

Please don't fall for her "business idea".
A million dream about another "high profitable" coffee shop.

Either it is a coffee shop or investing in the parents farm. 

They all think they just invented the world new.
If she would have the cash, would she invest in this venture or take his money and if it works, ok, if not, ok TOO.

[RAZZELL]

As mentioned look on Facebook market place - loads of hardly used - even dealers - in Bkk.

 

https://www.facebook.com/probar2h

 

I changed my location on FB to up search 60km from Hua Hin.

 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/107832635906754/search/?query=coffee machine&exact=false

 

 

RAZZ

Edited December 11, 2021 by RAZZELL

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, RAZZELL said:

One of the biggest in Thailand -  

 

https://www.boncafe.co.th/en/home/

And as far as I know they have deals to rent small or big coffee machines together with buying their coffee.

 

About opening a coffee shop in general I think that is difficult.

I go regularly to a very good and relative expensive coffee shop in Sukhumvit. I pay 100THB for a double espresso, and I think it's worth it. If I go there every day it's 3000B per month just for one double espresso a day - if I go alone and don't eat a croissant etc. It adds up. 

 

And on the other hand there are lots of people who think even 40THB for a coffee is too much. 

 

Obviously you can't get 100B coffee quality for 40B. So what does she try to sell? Who should be the customers? The coffee lovers who are willing to pay and have the money to visit her all the time? Or people who won't pay more than 40B? I don't think it's possible to cater to all of them.

And if you want to serve great expensive coffee then people expect to see a fancy (expensive) coffee machine.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

And then there is of course the early opening time.

People like their coffee before work, maybe together with a fresh croissant. 

Official opening time? Maybe 7am. Coming to work and preparing things at 6am? Every day?

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Kenny202 said:

Over 30 here, even with a degree very hard to find employment.

Thought you were in KK? Must be plenty of work there, not really a tourist town.

Up in Cm my daughter finished her degree, and 2 months later started her first full-time job.

[bbko]

4 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

If I were you Id be looking for something on FB marketplace second hand.

I agree with @Kenny202, With all the businesses that closed down due to covid I'd take a look at the second hand places, here in Pattaya there's many  places that specialize in selling used restaurant grade items.

 

And not trying to be a negative Nancy here, but 100-150 customers a day for a coffee shop is a bit of a pipe dream.

Edited December 11, 2021 by bbko

[Kenny202]

40 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And as far as I know they have deals to rent small or big coffee machines together with buying their coffee.

 

About opening a coffee shop in general I think that is difficult.

I go regularly to a very good and relative expensive coffee shop in Sukhumvit. I pay 100THB for a double espresso, and I think it's worth it. If I go there every day it's 3000B per month just for one double espresso a day - if I go alone and don't eat a croissant etc. It adds up. 

 

And on the other hand there are lots of people who think even 40THB for a coffee is too much. 

 

Obviously you can't get 100B coffee quality for 40B. So what does she try to sell? Who should be the customers? The coffee lovers who are willing to pay and have the money to visit her all the time? Or people who won't pay more than 40B? I don't think it's possible to cater to all of them.

And if you want to serve great expensive coffee then people expect to see a fancy (expensive) coffee machine.

 

 

I think that was the point I was making. There is no half measures with coffee or food for that matter. You either sell a lot of low grade stuff cheap (labor intensive / long hours / hard work / low return) or go all out. That of course will depend on your proposed location. The example you gave is 100% spot on. Yes people will pay 100 baht for a shot of excellent coffee in Bangkok. In a provincial town or village no. They equally wont pay 40 baht for a <deleted> cup of coffee. I am sure its the only reason Amazon and the other horrible, expensive mall coffee chains do so well here, and their coffee is awful. Thai people think it is up market. Its not about the coffee its about the FB selfies. So for that I would say your choice is go big or go home. If the area she is considering selling not a modern, cosmopolitan demographic.....Go for on the stove Moka coffee or a Nespresso machine with a milk frother. Still decent coffee but not the huge outlay. Your focus then should be add on sales. Coffee alone, even if it is good wont be enough to pay the rent or attract customers. Again your decisions should be location / turnover based. if you are going to be selling snacks and cakes etc no good having stuff that needs to be thrown in the bin at the end of everyday if not sold. Frozen / microwavable or long shelf life is the go.

 

Armed with all this knowledge I would be asking her what her plans or ideas are with some of these stuff. Does she know what the best milk to use is etc? See how much of her own research she has done and how committed to its success she will be. 

 

I saw a guy invest 300k in a coffee shop in a side street in a very remote, small village, to appease his Mrs of course. She was trying to sell coffee for 25 baht a cup which even that she couldn't acheive.....do the math on that return on investment lol. Was just such a bad idea on every level and the guy should have known better. It is ok to say no here. They never stop trying it on or asking but you also have the right to say no, particularly where she has no business experience or for that matter education, let alone any knowledge of cooking or producing a half decent coffee. Or more importantly no skin in the game and the only person who is going to lose is you. Ask any Thai woman what business she wants to do. Will usually be a coffee shop, online skin whitener, gift shop or noodle restaurant. then ask her how she is going to distribute the profits and repay the start up investment? I bet the answer is "not worry, I take care you" lol. Just pandering to childish whims. 

 

A wise man once said, going to a chain store coffee shop for coffee is like going to prison for sex. You know you are going to get it but its going to be rough ????

[Kenny202]

16 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Thought you were in KK? Must be plenty of work there, not really a tourist town.

Up in Cm my daughter finished her degree, and 2 months later started her first full-time job.

What I meant about over 30. An older person with a degree 30-35+ finds it very difficult to get work in their chosen field anywhere in Thailand. Coming straight out of Uni recently different story

[blackcab]

5 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

I am sure its the only reason Amazon and the other horrible, expensive mall coffee chains do so well here, and their coffee is awful.

 

The reason large chain coffee shops in Thai shopping malls do well is because they don't sell coffee. They sell seats.

[Kenny202]

4 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

The reason large chain coffee shops in Thai shopping malls do well is because they don't sell coffee. They sell seats.

Free wifi seats? lol

[RafPinto]

Selfie seats.

[rudi49jr]

Thanks for all the replies, guys, you’ve been most helpful!

[allanos]

An excellent thesis by Kenny202 on the economics of coffee retailing 101.

 

Hopefully, it also acted as something of a reality check for the OP.  If his Thai wife/gf is an absolute beginner, better to start her off with a low-capital input market stall, selling something she has better knowledge of. If it goes to the wall, it was just a learning experience and not a train smash.

 

I once had a commercial coffee distribution business, installing Saeco coffee machines in busy offices where there was a locked-in,  "guaranteed" daily uptake of number of cups consumed. The machines had an internal bean-grinder and produced an excellent brew with a good profit margin. I billed the companies monthly on a per-cup basis, using the machine's counter as proof of usage for a particular month for invoicing purposes. The machines needed minimal service and maintenance.

 

On the basis of profit/ cash flow the sites produced, I parlayed the income into the purchase of another property, which I later sold for a healthy capital gain. 

[khunPer]

Where I live the local HomePro has a huge selection of coffee makers from domestic to semipro to pro.

 

The domestic/semi pro machines might be too small for professional use. I have an espresso maker in the cheap end - i.e. in the 5,000 baht level - which is excellent for morning or evening coffee, but won't work for all day production.

 

There is a link HERE to HomoPro's online shop, with numerous coffee makers, you would probably need to look at something from around 25k baht for more professional use...????