Used JR Hokkaido train cars arrive in Thailand

[spidermike007]

The fact that Thailand has been reduced to a beggar, living off the planet's charity, kind of says it all. Does anyone have faith in this den of fools, who pretend to be leading the nation? 

[spidermike007]

16 hours ago, EricTh said:

Laos has a new modern high speed train system but Thailand is acquiring old slow speed trains?

 

Thailand is falling behind Laos

Thailand is, and has been moving backwards at a breakneck pace, for 7 very sorry years now.

Woe is Thailand with a terrible leader like Prayuth. 

[Almer]

1 hour ago, josephbloggs said:

OK, Thailand's railways are pretty poor but are improving.  The SRT is probably the most ineffiecient government agency of all, but sorry we can't just make stuff up to criticise.

 

They are not depending on 2nd hand wagons.  This was a (dubious) "gift" from Japan which is being refurbished and turned in to a tourist train.  Just a few years ago they purchased 115 brand new cars, so not true to say they are depending on handouts, they are not.

And what are you on about that the railway system was a present from England?  No it wasn't.  Nothing of the sort in fact.  The first line was built by a Danish company.  The Brits had nothing to do with it, nothing at all.

Thailand is upgrading the network quite considerably (easily the most investment I have seen in the railway here in my 26 years) with double tracks.  It would be nice to electrify but one step at a time, at least there is significant progress being made.  And let's not forget the huge electric network being built in Bangkok at the moment - an enormous undertaking and to be applauded (thought it is not without its faults such as not having a unified ticketing system).

 

Which highway in Bangkok did they not pay for?  Please do tell.  You must have some serious insider knowledge, love to hear it.

And where is this railway system sponsored by China?  That doesn't exist either.  They were/are looking at Chinese railways which makes sense as the Chinese are the world leaders in that technology, but they rejected Chinese financing as the interest rates were too high.  So, again, where is this new railway system sponsored by China?  It doesn't exist.

 

Phuket is an island.   And the topography in that southern region means it would be hugely complex and massively expensive to extend the railway network.  Surely you know that?  

Sorry for the long post, just had to challenge your nonsense.  Interested to hear your response.

Do not except anything from China or they will hang you with it

[simon43]

On 12/15/2021 at 3:25 AM, Crossy said:

Looks like a KiHa 183-900 built in 1979 so only 42 years old.

 

They will certainly need new wheel-sets. Japan is "cape gauge" (1,067mm) whereas Thailand is true "metre gauge" (1,000mm).

 

Pff!! A mere 67mm difference.  A sledge hammer will sort that out! ????

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

The fact that Thailand has been reduced to a beggar, living off the planet's charity, kind of says it all. Does anyone have faith in this den of fools, who pretend to be leading the nation? 

I know you like to get your "den of fools" and "Thailand is moving backwards in to the stone age" comments in to most threads, but you really should pick and choose ones where Thailand is perhaps moving backwards to make them.

The current rate of investment in infrastructure is like nothing I have ever seen here.  You have taken a single picture of a single train and read your own agenda in to it.

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by josephbloggs

[moskito]

2 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

 

Which highway in Bangkok did they not pay for?  Please do tell.  You must have some serious insider knowledge, love to hear it.

And where is this railway system sponsored by China?  That doesn't exist either.  They were/are looking at Chinese railways which makes sense as the Chinese are the world leaders in that technology, but they rejected Chinese financing as the interest rates were too high.  So, again, where is this new railway system sponsored by China?  It doesn't exist.

 

Phuket is an island.   And the topography in that southern region means it would be hugely complex and massively expensive to extend the railway network.  Surely you know that?  

Sorry for the long post, just had to challenge your nonsense.  Interested to hear your response.

which highway??? how old are you and how long do you know Thailand? In 2010 or 11 even the former Kings sons Plane was chained in Germany because of exactly this missing payment!!  Its not my duty to check for prove, you can easy find sources if you are looking for it.

and yeah right, it was not China building (or financing) all the new Railwaystations (which are still not working i guess??) and the new tracks, last time i was travelling with the train from Surathani (10h for 640km) was not used either. I was once in a train when it was derailed and it took me 16h from Bkk to Surathani and another time for the same reason stuck between Khon Kaen and Udon somewhere, when the train supposed to arrive at 05:00 or 06:00 in Nongkhai arrived at 14:00

sorry i didnt read the rest of your text

[moskito]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The fact that Thailand has been reduced to a beggar, living off the planet's charity, kind of says it all. Does anyone have faith in this den of fools, who pretend to be leading the nation? 

unfortunately you are right, and i often see it exactly like that. Since i am coming here there was always other countries building stuff. Like the highway or toll road from Don Muang to CityCenter Bkk and a lot of other things. Since centuries they are talking about building a new train system or a normal transport system in Phuket, they even build Bus stations, for around 30million baht wich was never used by busses but are good shelter in bad weather. The guys on wheels in Thailand are too strong i guess, thats the reason for there is still no public transport system in Phuket.
.
and ANYWAYS I kind of have faith in our Prime Minister. You cant turn around things in 2 years which are usual since centuries. People are used to corruption and its often helpfull too.
Many foreigners here yelling at the bribery but love to pay 1000.-Baht when stopped in a car or motorcycle while beeing drunk, instead of going to jail or losing the driving licence for a year. This things will stop sooner or later, and to be honest, i didnt move away from our retarded governments in the West to get exactly the same here!! ????
 

[The Fugitive]

17 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

I've taxed worse!

 

Seriously, having spent many many years as a volunteer worker on a UK heritage (steam railway) the bodywork looks perfectly sound. The visible rust is superficial, if they were shipped as deck cargo it may even come from the sea air on the journey.

 

The more important thing is why did Japanese Railway withdraw them? Were they surplus to requirements, replaced by newer, more efficient, cheaper to operate and maintain units, or were they "all worn out"? Even if it is the latter, railway vehicles can be almost infinitely repaired and restored. Wheelsets can be replaced ( they will have to be anyway to fit the Thai gauge) bogies and mechanicals refurbished, and the chassis are massively strong due to the "buffing loads" they are required to withstand. The bodywork is a simple replating job.

Excellent points. Portugal is a great example of refurbishing railway locomotives, multiple units and carriages. It's always been a pleasure to travel on Portuguese trains.   

[josephbloggs]

4 hours ago, moskito said:

which highway??? how old are you and how long do you know Thailand? In 2010 or 11 even the former Kings sons Plane was chained in Germany because of exactly this missing payment!!  Its not my duty to check for prove, you can easy find sources if you are looking for it.

I'm old enough, been here long enough, and I know enough, thanks for asking.  The Walter Bau dispute was to do with not being approved for toll increases (which were allowed in the contract).  It was nothing to do with "building a highway and not paying for it".  I have been here long enough to have been around before that extension was built.

 

Quote

and yeah right, it was not China building (or financing) all the new Railwaystations (which are still not working i guess??) and the new tracks, last time i was travelling with the train from Surathani (10h for 640km) was not used either. I was once in a train when it was derailed and it took me 16h from Bkk to Surathani and another time for the same reason stuck between Khon Kaen and Udon somewhere, when the train supposed to arrive at 05:00 or 06:00 in Nongkhai arrived at 14:00

Not sure what you are rambling on about to be honest.

 

Quote

sorry i didnt read the rest of your text

Of course, very convenient.

[GinBoy2]

21 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

But large sections of rail in other parts of Japan are not.  I forget the percentage but it is surprisingly high.  My first trip there I was expecting rail perfection and I got that on the Shinkansen, but I did several journeys that were on rickety old diesel trains - it was a real surprise to me.

Britain is only around 40% electrified.  USA if I remember correctly is under 5%.

Well be careful with comparisons.

 

The majority of US commuter rail is electrified. But the majority of long distance rail in the US is freight and that is always diesel powered.

 

Now you can argue the pros and cons of that but the US is #3 in the world for transporting goods by rail. So it may not be electrified, but I'd argue that is much better than most Europeans and the UK who rely on trucking the majority of freight

[josephbloggs]

51 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Well be careful with comparisons.

 

The majority of US commuter rail is electrified. But the majority of long distance rail in the US is freight and that is always diesel powered.

 

Now you can argue the pros and cons of that but the US is #3 in the world for transporting goods by rail. So it may not be electrified, but I'd argue that is much better than most Europeans and the UK who rely on trucking the majority of freight

Wasn't criticising, merely pointing out that diesel rail is very common even in "advanced" countries.  The poster I replied to seemed to think all "advanced" countries are purely electric when that is not the case; even Japan - where everyone only pictures sleek bullet trains - has many diesel commuter lines.

[kimamey]

On 12/14/2021 at 9:05 PM, RichardColeman said:

I defy you to look at that picture and not think rust bucket

What about " Just arrived at transport museum, awaiting restoration?"

 

I remember seeing a fire appliance in a museum in the UK and trying think if any of the ones in our local fire station in Thailand looked younger.

[GinBoy2]

On 12/14/2021 at 5:25 PM, Crossy said:

Looks like a KiHa 183-900 built in 1979 so only 42 years old.

 

They will certainly need new wheel-sets. Japan is "cape gauge" (1,067mm) whereas Thailand is true "metre gauge" (1,000mm).

 

Yeah I would agree these are 3' 6" gauge, so will need a new wheel sets.

 

Why does the very thought of SRT changing wheel sets worry me?

Oh yeah something to do with their inability to keep trains on the rails!

[herfiehandbag]

11 hours ago, kimamey said:

What about " Just arrived at transport museum, awaiting restoration?"

 

I remember seeing a fire appliance in a museum in the UK and trying think if any of the ones in our local fire station in Thailand looked younger.

Thailand has some quite modern fire appliances - parked up in a storage compound!

[Kiwithl]

I'm pretty sure NZ uses refurbished carriages from Japan on their scenic route trains. Nice carriages. Narrow gauge.

As mentioned above if Japan has 3 foot 6 gauge then I think NZ does too. "Standard" narrow gauge. (Sorry to mix up 2 conflicting rail terms but I hope you get my meaning).

Does Thailand really have 1m gauge not narrow gauge? Wouldn't surprise me I suppose but why? Do any other countries use 1m gauge?

Maybe metric places like EU?

Japan had railways pre ww2 so why did they use narrow gauge as opposed to 1m?

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, Kiwithl said:

Japan had railways pre ww2 so why did they use narrow gauge as opposed to 1m?

If you got the time and inclination......

https://www.ejrcf.or.jp/jrtr/jrtr31/f33_sai.html

[The Hammer2021]

On 12/15/2021 at 4:14 AM, bendejo said:

And in the Buenos Aires subway system as well.  But I don't know if they  bother to refurbish, the cars there still have signs in Japanese.  They probably just hose them down inside and out and that's it. 

There are certain lines there that have ancient cars where the passengers have to open the doors manually.

 

 

I prefer manual opening

[kimamey]

10 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

Thailand has some quite modern fire appliances - parked up in a storage compound!

Yes I seem to remember those

[herfiehandbag]

4 hours ago, kimamey said:

Yes I seem to remember those

I suspect that the powers that be would rather they were forgotten about- they served their purpose as the reason for some significant informal financial rebalancing, now they are an embarrassing reminder...

 

Mind you, I wouldn't be entirely amazed if something similar doesn't happen with these trains, now that the transport costs and "associated expenses" have been funded!

Edited December 17, 2021 by herfiehandbag

[spidermike007]

On 12/15/2021 at 6:26 PM, josephbloggs said:

I know you like to get your "den of fools" and "Thailand is moving backwards in to the stone age" comments in to most threads, but you really should pick and choose ones where Thailand is perhaps moving backwards to make them.

The current rate of investment in infrastructure is like nothing I have ever seen here.  You have taken a single picture of a single train and read your own agenda in to it.

 

Other than the one high speed highway to Korat and the double rail, which should have been done 40 years ago, what are you referring to? 

Edited December 17, 2021 by spidermike007

[josephbloggs]

17 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Other than the one high speed highway to Korat and the double rail, which should have been done 40 years ago, what are you referring to? 

I don't argue stuff should have been done long ago - absolutely it should have been, and it wasn't.....which is kind of my point.   Infrastructure-wise there has been pathetic investment here for decades, but in the last few years it has accelerated massively.  

Double rail expansion over more than 1,000kms, the three airports link (obviously not done yet but awarded), several mass transit lines in Bangkok under construction with many near completion (Pink, Yellow, Orange).  Obviously these lines are part of the original master plan but executed under this government (who did cause delays while they reviewed everything).  Also several mass transit extensions.  The high speed rail, meh, maybe, I'm not including that, let's see.

Several motorway projects have happened or are underway.  The southern elevated expressway is making great progress, I just drove past there last week.  Airport upgrades and expansions.  Drainage tunnels, new parks being built, electrical and communication lines being buried, canals being revitalised (Ong Ang, Rama IV).

I am not a big fan of Prayut and his cronies by any means - there are many things abhorrent about this government - but I am not so blinkered I can't acknowledge that the infrastructure work currently happening in Thailand is unprecedented, at least in my time here (25+ years).  Seriously just drive around Bangkok and the outskirts and there are roads and rail lines being built everywhere.  It is pretty incredible to be honest.

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, herfiehandbag said:

Mind you, I wouldn't be entirely amazed if something similar doesn't happen with these trains, now that the transport costs and "associated expenses" have been funded!

It is not "these trains".  It is one train.  Donated and will be turned in to a tourist train to run on tourist routes.

It's really not that hard to read the article before responding to it, is it?

[herfiehandbag]

8 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

It is not "these trains".  It is one train.  Donated and will be turned in to a tourist train to run on tourist routes.

It's really not that hard to read the article before responding to it, is it?

If you read the article you will see that there are 17 cars.

 

These sets typically operate in 5 car sets.

 

So that is either 3 trains (allowing for a couple of spares) or one very long train! To operate on an as yet unspecified "tourist route".

 

As you say it is not really that hard to read the article; and the associated posts, before making what may, or may not be a realistic surmisal!

[Kiwithl]

20 hours ago, jacko45k said:

If you got the time and inclination......

https://www.ejrcf.or.jp/jrtr/jrtr31/f33_sai.html

Thanks. I will read it but at my leisure.

 

For those who are interested in where these trains will run

The Nation article linked in a comment on page 1 of this thread has the info. I can't re-link it here, possibly because I'm a luddite.

It's good to have some probably factual information before reading the many posts full of opinions and conjecture.

Opinions are like anuses; everyone's got one...

[The Fugitive]

13 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

I don't argue stuff should have been done long ago - absolutely it should have been, and it wasn't.....which is kind of my point.   Infrastructure-wise there has been pathetic investment here for decades, but in the last few years it has accelerated massively.  

Double rail expansion over more than 1,000kms, the three airports link (obviously not done yet but awarded), several mass transit lines in Bangkok under construction with many near completion (Pink, Yellow, Orange).  Obviously these lines are part of the original master plan but executed under this government (who did cause delays while they reviewed everything).  Also several mass transit extensions.  The high speed rail, meh, maybe, I'm not including that, let's see.

Several motorway projects have happened or are underway.  The southern elevated expressway is making great progress, I just drove past there last week.  Airport upgrades and expansions.  Drainage tunnels, new parks being built, electrical and communication lines being buried, canals being revitalised (Ong Ang, Rama IV).

I am not a big fan of Prayut and his cronies by any means - there are many things abhorrent about this government - but I am not so blinkered I can't acknowledge that the infrastructure work currently happening in Thailand is unprecedented, at least in my time here (25+ years).  Seriously just drive around Bangkok and the outskirts and there are roads and rail lines being built everywhere.  It is pretty incredible to be honest.

Thanks for your positive and uplifting comments. Cheered me up no end. Seriously!