Orinoco Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 23 hours ago, Paulaew said: This is more or less how the argument went with my wife (I added "more educated" for good measure). I didn't give in, but as multiple posters to this thread have argued, I was probably in the wrong. Thanks for your support, appreciated. Paul Laew Nah, your wife was wrong, she should have warned you of this type of thing and how to behave, if meant so much to her. Your not Thai. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thingamabob Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 We farangs usually make a bit of a mess of this issue, at best looking awkward and uncomfortable. Over many years I have learned to wai back to a Thai waiing me, often followed immediately by my extending a handshake which, although not part of their culture, Thais seem to appreciate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreasyFingers Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Just now, Hummin said: When somebody wai you to pay you respect, it is as rude as not accept a hand reaching out to hand shake someone who offer their hand to be polite. Some think to mutt when it comes to wai, and I would say all involved in the op story, is wrong. It is just a polite gesture, a wai, nothing else. Stop thinking to much, if you shake hands, you shake hands, if not, dont, the same with a wai. Why. It has not caused any trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said: Why. It has not caused any trouble. Either you understand, or don't understand. Both is just fine! You are just a retired or a tourist, and really do not to interact with any locals, apply for work, or be in any near relation to anyone off matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KannikaP Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 On 12/20/2021 at 9:54 AM, Hummin said: Some take themselves and life to serius! What would Jesus do? ???????? Who? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvaviator Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 On 12/20/2021 at 9:21 AM, Paulaew said: I know this can seem a trivial topic, but it's actually quite important to my wife, since she felt my actions reflected poorly on her. If you have a Thai spouse and are here long term, you may find it necessary to live in Thai society. I know some farang enjoy thumbing their noses at Thai norms that seem quaint or outdated or even ridiculous. And it is undoubtedly true that respect is often required when it is not deserved. But I make an effort to go along with the conventions while maintaining my integrity (not always easy). My original question could be put this way -- when it comes to wai priority, does position trump age, education and wealth? Andre0720 suggested in his post that it does. Not that a department head in a Thai government school is such an exalted position ... Paul Laew My understanding is that position / status will trump age .... I think on balance you should have wai first ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreasyFingers Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 27 minutes ago, Hummin said: Either you understand, or don't understand. Both is just fine! You are just a retired or a tourist, and really do not to interact with any locals, apply for work, or be in any near relation to anyone off matter. What is your problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBKK Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Ah the Why's of Wai'ing Basically your wife is subservient and brought up in the hierarchal culture of pyramid power. We live where we do - probably I'd just Wai quickly to make sure I got Nookie that night. Don't tink 2 mut TIT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1FinickyOne Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 On 12/20/2021 at 10:22 AM, thaibeachlovers said: . I never had a problem From years of posts you had mountains of problems and things you complained about... If you re wai-ed to it is only polite to return it - same as you would if offered a handshake... it is really not that big a deal to be polite... and that is all that is going on - an attempt well-meant to be polite will be appreciated.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidst01 Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 On 12/20/2021 at 10:16 AM, thaibeachlovers said: hold the payments a while to show who's the boss in your house. What are you 90 yrs old or something. What an old fashioned way to think. OP's wife could be the bread winner in the family. My wife is. Not all of us marry bar girls.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidst01 Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 My 2 cents worth on this topic is that OP has an ego and also probably forgets or doesn't understand the wai culture. If so we might have something in common. I forget all the time myself. When thais wai me I often forget to wai back. Im hoping that most thai's realise that most farangs dont understand their culture and are forgiving in this regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1FinickyOne Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 57 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said: If you do not wai correctly they will laugh at you Just simply not true... when you are out and around and bump into people, you might have a grocery bag in one hand - - you or they will try and wai as best you can and both laugh is my experience... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1FinickyOne Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 On 12/20/2021 at 10:54 AM, thaibeachlovers said: stealing from inlaws ( me ) Did you pay sin sod? If not, maybe you stole from them first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticky Rice Balls Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Oh My! The Wai !? Why oh Why?.....Mai Sabai! Guess ur sleeping on the couch tonight... ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritManToo Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 On 12/20/2021 at 10:16 AM, thaibeachlovers said: 55555555555555555 In the OP's position I wouldn't wai at all. I never did, and the most I did was a bow and a smile. If the wife doesn't like it, hold the payments a while to show who's the boss in your house. I was always amused by farangs that tried to be a Thai. Agreed, with me and my woman it's always been 'Mai Wai' or the HighWay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunPer Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 On 12/20/2021 at 2:14 AM, Paulaew said: Am I mistaken, or is there a law of inherited subservience here that I'm not aware of? Should I have been the wai-er or the wai-ee? In my opinion yes, you should be a "wai-er", first of all because she is a government employed and you are a foreigner, secondly because of what you wife says. Personally I rather wai a little too much, and little too often, that the opposite, but I never wai back to staff that wais me - i.e. could be the cashier in hypermarket, and other staff, or a guard - but I will normally return such a wai with a polite little nod and smile (the latter is not seen during facemask-era, apart from my smiling eyes)...???? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ54 Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Just think it as a courtesy.... I’ve not figured out who the Master of the house is... I know who thinks she is.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinRacing Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Why wai? Usually, Thais don’t expect a farang to wai. The ridiculous ones are the tourists/newbies who although tryito the right thing in their mind make an ass of themselves in the eyes of Thais. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwest5829 Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 On 12/20/2021 at 8:58 AM, Paulaew said: No, it was an awkward moment -- she was waiting for a wai from me that was not forthcoming. I was expecting a wai from her. It was more or less a breakdown of wai expectations. What followed was a delayed and sort of fumbled co-wai. Neither she nor my wife looked happy about it. Paul Laew Paul, I understand your thought on the wai protocol. I only say, when my Stepdaughter’s Teacher comes to our home, I immediately offer the wai, without question. The wai, at the same time, from the Teacher has always been offered upon entering our home. Yes, if we wanted to get down to particulars, I am the elder, I am the retired Professor but a mutual wai is preferable to me. Just my take after a decade here, easier to be mutually respectful. Had I offered the wai and it not be returned … yes, that would lower my opinion of the person affronting me. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Led Lolly Yellow Lolly Posted December 21, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 21, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said: Just simply not true... when you are out and around and bump into people, you might have a grocery bag in one hand - - you or they will try and wai as best you can and both laugh is my experience... I've read through this entire topic and this, while likely posted off the cuff by the poster, is by far the most useful comment. In truth it usually doesn't matter who wais first. Foreigners just take it too seriously, overthink it. There is some great advice in this thread, but some real clangers too. If you're a noob, no Thai is going to laugh at you for bouncing your forehead off the pavement to show respect to a five year old. They may laugh WITH you, but laugh AT you? Not in my experience. Maybe some pompous know-it-all farang will laugh. If you're committed to life in Thailand, you will look pretty arrogant if you don't take on board some basic Thai civics, and waiing is probably the most basic of them all. I have been deeply embedded in Thai society for so long now, I cringe at some of the things I did decades ago, and I feel the same cringe when I read some of the comments in this topic. . . I have to be careful posting on these forums. I just can't break cover. Some of the things I could say here would have other posters calling me a walter mitty or something similar, whatever, but. . . My involvement with my wife's family and their business affairs has put me in a position where I mix with some very powerful people, on a local and national level. I wish I could say who, I wish I could post pictures to give me credibility, but I can't, so you can take what I say at face value, or not, up to you. . . Those people don't really care who wais first. If I wai them first, awesome, if they wai first, I'll try to take up the slack and wai back, but they're not so arrogant as to think they have to wait for me, the fact that they're older, wealthier and much, much more powerful matters not. If, for example, someone from the local Crown Property Bureau branch office comes to visit, it would be rude of me not to put my sandwich down and wai with both hands, and try to do so before they do, but it's all pretty informal and relaxed. In a formal setting, things are very different however. If you fail to produce a deferential wai to the right people in a formal setting, where the person or persons you are with know that you should know better, you will look very, VERY bad, and the people that went with you, will also look very, VERY bad as a consequence. To refer to some ancient cultural flaws is nonsensical. Look at it like this: In western countries, if you refuse to shake an extended hand, it is one of the most powerful social snubs you can give in polite society. It's the same with a wai and why you would not reciprocate, as some posters have stated, is beyond my comprehension. About the OP. I would say the visitor was kind of out of order by waiting it out. She's not your boss. and it's your turf. . . BUT, you should have considered your wife and shown some deference and offered a welcoming wai for some marital harmony and out of respect for your wife's position. If I have to visit the home of any of my own staff, I would not hesitate to wai first, not for a millisecond, it's their home, the fact I'm their boss doesn't matter, but they will still try to wai me first. . . So, as some have said, it's kind of like a race but it doesn't matter who wins or loses. If you both wait it out, you both lose. Having said that, if your wife is twisting your balls over it (it's your home and you're the man of the house after all), I think you probably have bigger problems than understanding the vagaries of waiing. Edited December 21, 2021 by Led Lolly Yellow Lolly 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalangJaiDee Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 11 hours ago, BritManToo said: Not true, in Thailand your wife is considered your property. IF you’re Thai as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andycoops Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 On 12/20/2021 at 9:21 AM, Paulaew said: I know this can seem a trivial topic, but it's actually quite important to my wife, since she felt my actions reflected poorly on her. If you have a Thai spouse and are here long term, you may find it necessary to live in Thai society. I know some farang enjoy thumbing their noses at Thai norms that seem quaint or outdated or even ridiculous. And it is undoubtedly true that respect is often required when it is not deserved. But I make an effort to go along with the conventions while maintaining my integrity (not always easy). My original question could be put this way -- when it comes to wai priority, does position trump age, education and wealth? Andre0720 suggested in his post that it does. Not that a department head in a Thai government school is such an exalted position ... Paul Laew If in doubt wai, it's hardly an onerous task. I usually wai when I have been wai ed too first but make exceptions when dealing with officials as it makes them respond to you and shows you understand the protocol and smooths the transaction. My wife has never made any comment on my wai ing in 13 years here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre0720 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 On 12/21/2021 at 2:55 PM, Srikcir said: "Wai" is a symbol of social inequality, a throwback to the days of the Kingdom of Siam. It doesn't belong in a modern democratic society, but then Thailand seems stuck in an undemocratic past in regard to its societal behavior. But I believe that the wai enables the Thai elite class to this day in a perceived societal hierarchy. Wow. That is very much what I think about the Wai. The sooner it disappears from this culture, the better. So that children are not diminished for being younger, and that they do not feel resentment when they finally grow up, This resentment takes the form of non-respect for elders. To the point of total selfishness towards others. The Wai, as a form of teaching about respect, does exactly the opposite. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabradelmar Posted December 24, 2021 Share Posted December 24, 2021 Everyone loves Thai culture until they don't or it's inconvenient for them ???? Now we have here a bunch of foreigners saying the wai offends them in one way shape of form. Grow up. It's polite, easy to do and shows repect to elders and monks. How can that be wrong. Take the grousing here to it's logical conclusion and we would stop all forms of politeness and respect (bowing, hand shakes, tipping of the hat, etc. etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubuzz Posted December 24, 2021 Share Posted December 24, 2021 In my opinion, the visitor should offer the first wai. However, If you wish to offer the first wai to welcome to a visitor, then a low chest high wai would have been acceptable, but i would not offer subservience in my own home. Furthermore, if i knew the visitor was an English speaker, i would only offer a smile and a "Hi. Come on in". OP-What subject does your wife teach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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