Pattaya: 100+ foreigners want their money back from Thai bank - "you stole our future" says one

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, mikebell said:

You're right.  Is it the same as Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives?

No, they are not the same.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, Harsh Jones said:

It was done under the guise of a real bank because the branch manager was operating the ponzi. Normally i have zero sympathy for ponzi victims but this one was a little different.

"...the branch manager was operating the ponzi".

The branch manager was not operating the fraud!   She has not been implicated.

[Tarteso]

15 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

He didn't say that, you altered his comment.  He said "...the US practically invented financial crimes".

You’re Right, so I meant financial crimes was done in XVII Century “practically”. ????

[Leaver]

2 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Fraud/theft, plain and simple, by a trusted bank employee, who represented the bank and used the good name of the bank to help perpetrate the fraud. In just about any other country this case would be cut and dried, as the saying goes.....but TIT, so who knows??

 

It will be an interesting case.

 

It would be good to know all the details of this crime, but from what I have read, the main legal arguments will be as follows:

 

The bank's legal argument will be, from the moment the member of staff redirected 1 baht of funds, effectively stealing the money, he ceased to be a representative of the bank, as he was now working outside of his terms of employment, and at that point was perpetrating a crime, for which the bank can not be responsible for.  

 

The victim's legal argument will be, they had every reason to believe the staff member was selling them one of the bank's products, particularly as all transactions were carried out inside the bank, by a staff member, with official documents for the bank, albeit, forged or fake documents, but once again, the bank's legal argument will be, from the moment the staff member forged or altered the bank's documents, that document ceased to actually be the product of the bank's. 

 

Central to the case for the victims will be the use of forged bank documents, including the bank books.

 

Central to the case for the bank will be the bank never financially gained from the actions of the staff member, therefore, his actions were solely for his own criminal benefit, so the bank was not a a willing participant in the crime, either knowingly, or unknowingly.

 

The bank will argue that whilst their preventative measures and supervisory systems have failed to protect customers in this case, such failures does not make the bank culpable, and therefore subject to offering compensation.  

 

The victim's will argue, and I think it's their strongest legal argument, that from the time their money hit their account in the bank, the bank then "owned" their money, and was responsible for it.  So, in effect, the staff member stole the bank's money, not the victim's money, which means the victims should have their money returned, and the bank chase the criminal staff member for the money.  Of course, the bank will argue, the victims willingly transferred their money to a criminal, and therefore the bank can not be liable for the funds.    

 

It's possible this case could get tied up in the Thai court system for years, and as many of the victims are elderly expats, many may now be forced to return to their home country, broke, or possibly pass away before a determination is made in this case.  

 

Thailand is a 3rd World country, with 3rd World governance, and a 3rd World policing and judicial system.  The saying, "never bring money into Thailand that you are not prepared to lose" is also true of the Thai banking system, especially now, with Thailand having record household debt. 

[NanaSomchai]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

Thailand is a 3rd World country, with 3rd World governance, and a 3rd World policing and judicial system.  The saying, "never bring money into Thailand that you are not prepared to lose" is also true of the Thai banking system, especially now, with Thailand having record household debt. 

You nailed it.

 

/thread

[NoshowJones]

23 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"Seems to be a lot of stories like this".

Nonsense.  It's be interesting to see you quote specifics of there "seeming to be a lot of stories like this".    I've never seen anything similar reported before or since, can you detail just one similar case?

 

" How can they expect farang to deposit 800k for retirement visa?"

Very easily.  This was a one-off, it is not typical of Thailand's banks.

A one off?? Nonsense, one poster has just said he lost 40.000Bt from his account with a Bangkok bank branch.

[david555]

9 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

It will be an interesting case.

 

It would be good to know all the details of this crime, but from what I have read, the main legal arguments will be as follows:

 

The bank's legal argument will be, from the moment the member of staff redirected 1 baht of funds, effectively stealing the money, he ceased to be a representative of the bank, as he was now working outside of his terms of employment, and at that point was perpetrating a crime, for which the bank can not be responsible for.  

 

The victim's legal argument will be, they had every reason to believe the staff member was selling them one of the bank's products, particularly as all transactions were carried out inside the bank, by a staff member, with official documents for the bank, albeit, forged or fake documents, but once again, the bank's legal argument will be, from the moment the staff member forged or altered the bank's documents, that document ceased to actually be the product of the bank's. 

 

Central to the case for the victims will be the use of forged bank documents, including the bank books.

 

Central to the case for the bank will be the bank never financially gained from the actions of the staff member, therefore, his actions were solely for his own criminal benefit, so the bank was not a a willing participant in the crime, either knowingly, or unknowingly.

 

The bank will argue that whilst their preventative measures and supervisory systems have failed to protect customers in this case, such failures does not make the bank culpable, and therefore subject to offering compensation.  

 

The victim's will argue, and I think it's their strongest legal argument, that from the time their money hit their account in the bank, the bank then "owned" their money, and was responsible for it.  So, in effect, the staff member stole the bank's money, not the victim's money, which means the victims should have their money returned, and the bank chase the criminal staff member for the money.  Of course, the bank will argue, the victims willingly transferred their money to a criminal, and therefore the bank can not be liable for the funds.    

 

It's possible this case could get tied up in the Thai court system for years, and as many of the victims are elderly expats, many may now be forced to return to their home country, broke, or possibly pass away before a determination is made in this case.  

 

Thailand is a 3rd World country, with 3rd World governance, and a 3rd World policing and judicial system.  The saying, "never bring money into Thailand that you are not prepared to lose" is also true of the Thai banking system, especially now, with Thailand having record household debt. 

Like i said before .....the case shall be handled same .....as the RedBull case ..." patience we are working on it ..."

 

[Leaver]

42 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Never have money in this Banana Republic of Thailand that you cannot afford to lose. 

 

I agree.

 

Thailand is a 3rd World Country with 3rd World governance, and with a 3rd World policing and judicial system. 

 

It's one of the reasons I don't even bring in the 800k for the annual extension, and pay an agent.  

 

It would be nothing for the Thai government to freeze bank deposits over 100k, and renege on their 1 million baht government guarantee on bank deposits, especially now with Thailand being in record household debt, and a big drop in GDP due to the lack of tourism here over 18 months, and with more covid pain still to come. 

 

It's difficult to know just how exposed the Thai banks are, and despite their bank deposit guarantee, I don't think the Thai government would bail them out, and even if they did, all funds would not be at call for immediate transfer, with foreigners probably being at the bottom of the list.  

[Liverpool Lou]

27 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

A one off?? Nonsense, one poster has just said he lost 40.000Bt from his account with a Bangkok bank branch.

That's what he said, anecdotally, on this anonymous forum, something that was never reported anywhere.  Means nothing in comparison to the Kasikorn thread.

[xylophone]

34 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Thailand is a 3rd World Country with 3rd World governance, and with a 3rd World policing and judicial system. 

 

It's one of the reasons I don't even bring in the 800k for the annual extension, and pay an agent.  

You make some interesting points in a previous post, in respect of the position the bank may take, and also the position the victims may take.

 

However one thing that does bother me is irrespective of what the bank may try to say with regards to the fact that once the employee stole some money he ceased to be an employee, as the bank never took action (because they didn't know about it), never reviewed his employment or indeed fire him, then to all intents and purposes, and especially to the victims, he was still an employee of the bank.

 

I sincerely hope the victims win their case, and as regards another point you made about your 800 K in the bank, it is something that I have been pondering now for quite a while, and will look into it in the New Year, because like you mentioned, I'm not sure that my funds are safe here, not just because the governance is Third World, but because corruption is endemic here, from top to bottom, and who knows how that can pan out. 
 

[KarenBravo]

If your bank offered you 3.5% interest per month, wouldn't you be suspicious? Especially when interest rates are 2% per year and are clearly displayed in every bank.

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

So you think a judge shall not consider that those greedy group was over careles by believing such a ridicoulos offer from an individual ...? And they even did not ask a second opinion higher up ?    In contradiction with the general rule ..."to take care as good housefather

Ah... victim blaming. The why oh why did the bank sack the guy who perpetrated the scam.... it was all the victim's faults?

[david555]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That's what he said, anecdotally, on this anonymous forum, something that was never reported anywhere.  Means nothing in comparison to the Kasikorn thread.

But  ... about how much money in total this is going ,as i never saw a just number except about a 100 farang ..... what amount is the missing money ?

[david555]

2 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Ah... victim blaming. The why oh why did the bank sack the guy who perpetrated the scam.... it was all the victim's faults?

for sure partly , to be so plain stupid  to believe 3.5% interest a month ... ????

 

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, david555 said:

for sure partly , to be so plain stupid  to believe 3.5% interest a month ... ????

 

You don't think anybody pays more than 3.5%/month in Thailand?

 

[david555]

6 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

You don't think anybody pays more than 3.5%/month in Thailand?

 

So you are the same type of a believer ....or do you mean those illegal criminal  money leanders are just O.K.....?

 

If so you join their ranks defending 3.5% interest a month 

 

Paying is not receiving ....as they believed

[couchpotato]

5 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

You don't think anybody pays more than 3.5%/month in Thailand?

 

Bold statement....Enlighten us on where this can be achieved please.

[Nickelbeer]

This is why I keep NO money in Thai banks. All my income is kept in an FDIC protected account in the USA.  If you can't guarantee transparency, then you have no right to be in business.

[Nickelbeer]

They want us to keep all our money here and yet they refuse to protect us.  What's the attraction?

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

Bold statement....Enlighten us on where this can be achieved please.

Obviously  loan sharks are paid such levels. 

[Nickelbeer]

I will not keep a DIME in Thailand. I will pay corruption money to an agent and get a fair deal.

[david555]

5 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

Bold statement....Enlighten us on where this can be achieved please.

I think he means those poor thais who lend money from those illegal money lenders

[david555]

1 minute ago, jacko45k said:

Obviously  loan sharks are paid such levels. 

So where those 100 on the way  to that pad ...? ????   lending it to those loan sharks...?????

[jacko45k]

10 minutes ago, david555 said:

So where those 100 on the way  to that pad ...? ????   lending it to those loan sharks...?????

You do not come across a very sharp (what do you mean by 'pad'?)...  It could be they believed the bank employee was involved with loan sharks. Remember Madoff? But that it guesswork...heaven knows what the victims thought was behind the high returns, greed makes people do (and believe) silly things.

I had a neighbour try to offer me some short term loan deal once... he was on a midnight plane home a few days later, leaving a few who believed him knocking on his door.  

[itsari]

If it looks too good to be true . Take a step back 

Greed is the undoing of many a good man

Screw unto others before they screw unto you.

[KarenBravo]

28 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

You don't think anybody pays more than 3.5%/month in Thailand?

 

As far as I know, only loan sharks.

I, too request you to tell us where you can legally get in excess of 3.5% per month..

[david555]

3 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

You do not come across a very sharp (what do you mean by 'pad'?)...  It could be they believed the bank employee was involved with loan sharks. Remember Madoff? But that it guesswork...heaven knows what the victims thought was behind the high returns, greed makes people do (and believe) silly things.

I had a neighbour try to offer me some short term loan deal once... he was on a midnight plane home a few days later, leaving a few who believed him knocking on his door.  

Seems you understood me anyway in correct way ....even being me not "very sharp" ????

 

Intersting consideration for the bank lawyer to go deeper on that ....

[Lemsta69]

4 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

As far as I know, only loan sharks.

I, too request you to tell us where you can legally get in excess of 3.5% per month..

crypto

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, david555 said:

Seems you understood me anyway in correct way ....even being me not "very sharp"

I did not understand the first sentence at all!

[david555]

1 minute ago, jacko45k said:

I did not understand the first sentence at all!

Like you might presume they where lending maybe to someone who had connection with loan sharks .....making them in a way connected to loansharks organisations whitout knowing ....or knowing it ...who knows.....

Be continuat....