ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[Gweiloman]

4 minutes ago, Davejf2017 said:

EV cars are really disposable cars as their batteries need replacing after about 8 years which is in the 100,000 's of baht when you do not have to spend that much on a ICE car after about 8 years.Also when all so called fast chargers are being used at a location the charge rate will drastically decrease 

Welcome new member. Shame that among your very first posts, you have already shown to all of us your ignorance and lack of knowledge about something you obviously know nothing about.

 

However, do carry on trolling. It’s fun knowing that it’s necessary for some to have a lower than average IQ in order to have an average IQ measurement.

[ExpatOilWorker]

8 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

 

I don't have as much time as you guys with nothing to do but go through numbers every single day, nor do I really care, but it is clear all vehicle sales are down this year. 

You are cherry picking that Toyota market share is up? Normally people provide links.

How is Toyota's market share for ICEVs compared to their rivals' BEVs? What are the trends? Where is the growth? That should be telling.

Sukuzi are leaving Thailand so no-one is buy their celeriacs (only transam seems to like them). They have dropped from 8k units a year to only 1k units. Therefore market share for other ICEV makers increases.  Subaru are also exiting Thailand so no one is buying their cars.

Trying to claim Toyota are getting stronger is laughable, especially without providing a shred of evidence. Where is your evidence please?

That is of course the essence of it, Toyota is taking marking share away from other ICE manufacturers and losing some to the new EV makers.

 

That story doesn't suit the ginger propaganda Aussie and it is sad to see hos followers repeate his fake news 😢 without an ounce of thoughts of its validity. 

[vinny41]

Japanese auto brand leads with 110,861 vehicles registered in first seven months of this year; BYD tops list of most electric vehicles registered

Toyota is leading the list of automobile brands with the most vehicles registered by buyers in the first seven months of this year.

The Land Transport Department (LTD) said on Thursday that a total of 322,627 vehicles with fewer than seven seats using internal combustion engines (ICE) had been registered from January 1 to July 31. Of them 110,861 were Toyota sedans, followed by 57,908 Honda cars and 34,420 Isuzu pickups.

As per the Automotive Act, the LTD groups sedans, SUVs, MPVs, pickup trucks and vans with seven seats and fewer as personal vehicles.

https://www.nationthailand.com/business/automobile/40040801

[JBChiangRai]

45 minutes ago, Davejf2017 said:

EV cars are really disposable cars as their batteries need replacing after about 8 years which is in the 100,000 's of baht when you do not have to spend that much on a ICE car after about 8 years.Also when all so called fast chargers are being used at a location the charge rate will drastically decrease 

 

So the batteries last 8 years? Is that why some EV manufacturers give a lifetime warranty on the battery?

 

Fast DC chargers split the power across 2 ports, some chargers are powerful enough not to slow down with the average EV.

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I took the enclosed from your link and removed the June only specific columns to emphasise what's happening.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

We all fully understand your life long struggle with percentages calculations, but by default market share is expressed in % and not absolute numbers. 

Advanced stuff, I know. It part of the year 2 curriculum at the 🖍 class. 

 

I am struggling to find where I said MARKET SHARE in that post?  Perhaps you can enlighten us with your creative view on facts?

[Davejf2017]

 

[JBChiangRai]

6 minutes ago, Davejf2017 said:

 

 

Pish & Tosh, EV's are more than 11 times LESS likely to catch fire than an ICE vehicle.

 

Stop buying into conspiracy theories.

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

So the batteries last 8 years? Is that why some EV manufacturers give a lifetime warranty on the battery?

 

Fast DC chargers split the power across 2 ports, some chargers are powerful enough not to slow down with the average EV.

It seems no-one on this forum knows what MG definition of lifetime is 

as far as I know no other EV  manufacturer has offered a lifetime warranty and specified their definition of lifetime and what conditions are required to qualify for such warranty

Between 2024-2032  in China 

Cumulative insurance registrations of NEVs with eight-year warranties have amounted to 19.41 million units over the past eight years, but starting this year, their warranties will begin to expire, he said.

https://cnevpost.com/2024/03/17/nio-william-li-urges-more-focus-on-battery-life/

 

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

It seems no-one on this forum knows what MG definition of lifetime is 

as far as I know no other EV  manufacturer has offered a lifetime warranty and specified their definition of lifetime and what conditions are required to qualify for such warranty

Between 2024-2032  in China 

Cumulative insurance registrations of NEVs with eight-year warranties have amounted to 19.41 million units over the past eight years, but starting this year, their warranties will begin to expire, he said.

https://cnevpost.com/2024/03/17/nio-william-li-urges-more-focus-on-battery-life/

 

 

You are welcome to go and ask MG about their lifetime battery warranty, I have and the terms are ok with me.

[ExpatOilWorker]

31 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Japanese auto brand leads with 110,861 vehicles registered in first seven months of this year; BYD tops list of most electric vehicles registered

Toyota is leading the list of automobile brands with the most vehicles registered by buyers in the first seven months of this year.

The Land Transport Department (LTD) said on Thursday that a total of 322,627 vehicles with fewer than seven seats using internal combustion engines (ICE) had been registered from January 1 to July 31. Of them 110,861 were Toyota sedans, followed by 57,908 Honda cars and 34,420 Isuzu pickups.

As per the Automotive Act, the LTD groups sedans, SUVs, MPVs, pickup trucks and vans with seven seats and fewer as personal vehicles.

https://www.nationthailand.com/business/automobile/40040801

Thanks @vinny41.

From those numbers Toyota is the king 🤴 of automakers in Thailand with a market share of 34.4%, firmly confirming that the ginger nutter is a unreliable source of information. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Pish & Tosh, EV's are more than 11 times LESS likely to catch fire than an ICE vehicle.

 

Stop buying into conspiracy theories.

Thai EV fire 🔥 risk: 9.2 fire/billion miles

Tesla global: 5 fire/billion miles

ICE (USA): 55 fire/billion miles

 

1. Tesla 3 - September 20th, 2021, power pole collision Rama 2, Bangkok.

 

2. BYD Atto 3 - January 21st, 2023, house fire, Songkran. Traction battery did not burn.

 

3. BYD Seal - March 14th, 2024, Ratchaburi roll-over.

 

4. Porsche Taycan - May 24th, 2024, battery explosion, Paradise Car Showroom, Bangkok.

 

5. Neta-V - June 11th, 2024, median accident and fire, Saraburi.

 

6. Neta-V - June 12th, 2024, accident and fire at towing area, Tha Phra, Khon Kaen.

 

7. MG ES - June 22nd, 2024, hit axle part on the road, Chonburi motorway.

[ExpatOilWorker]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

You are welcome to go and ask MG about their lifetime battery warranty, I have and the terms are ok with me.

MG are afraid of publicly posting the lifetime battery warranty?

Why is it so hard for you EV "experts" to obtain and share it?

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

MG are afraid of publicly posting the lifetime battery warranty?

Why is it so hard for you EV "experts" to obtain and share it?

 

I only share with caring types

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

You are welcome to go and ask MG about their lifetime battery warranty, I have and the terms are ok with me.

It must be secret or you would have posted what are the terms and conditions of the warranty and  MG definition of lifetime what is lifetime or did they ask you to sign a NDA 

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

It must be secret or you would have posted what are the terms and conditions of the warranty and  MG definition of lifetime what is lifetime or did they ask you to sign a NDA 

 

You don't have an MG, and you're not a caring type

 

No caring, No sharing

[JBChiangRai]

45 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

 

I am struggling to find where I said MARKET SHARE in that post?  Perhaps you can enlighten us with your creative view on facts?

 

Just for the creative EOW, the graphic actually commenting on MARKET SHARE

I think this is what you mistook my last graphic for

 

Oh, what is this I see?  Could it be that Toyota's market share has dropped by 34.8% first 6 months of this year to same period last year?

 

By Jove, love a duck, oh my giddy aunt, it certainly is.  What an inconvenient fact @ExpatOilWorker wouldn't you say?

 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Davejf2017 said:

EV cars are really disposable cars as their batteries need replacing after about 8 years which is in the 100,000 's of baht when you do not have to spend that much on a ICE car after about 8 years.Also when all so called fast chargers are being used at a location the charge rate will drastically decrease 

If we drive our 20k kms a year locally, and charge as we normally do using excess solar, that saves us 419,200 baht over the 8 yr warranty period.  52.4K baht a year, ICEV vs EV petrol cost alone.

 

Or to put it another way, it will cost the ICEV owner, 419,200 baht to drive 20k kms over 8 years, plus 15 oil changes, and a few full tune-up.

 

And NO ... batteries don't need to be replaced after 8 yrs, and will last 500k-1M kms, at least.

 

A new EV troll, lovely .... Thanks for the chuckle.

Have a nice day.

[ExpatOilWorker]

34 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Just for the creative EOW, the graphic actually commenting on MARKET SHARE

I think this is what you mistook my last graphic for

 

Oh, what is this I see?  Could it be that Toyota's market share has dropped by 34.8% first 6 months of this year to same period last year?

 

By Jove, love a duck, oh my giddy aunt, it certainly is.  What an inconvenient fact @ExpatOilWorker wouldn't you say?

 

It is a very inconvenient fact for you that passenger cars as a isolated segment is irrelevant in this context. The ginger 🫚 punk was referring to all of Toyota's sales in Thailand 🇹🇭. 

He is an unreliable source of information.

You are again cherry 🍒 picking a single segment to prove a wrong point. Team EV propaganda is getting ever more desperate. 

 

NB: Your aunt drink as much as you?

Edited August 24 by ExpatOilWorker

[ExpatOilWorker]

31 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

If we drive our 20k kms a year locally, and charge as we normally do using excess solar, that saves us 419,200 baht over the 8 yr warranty period.  52.4K baht a year, ICEV vs EV petrol cost alone.

 

Or to put it another way, it will cost the ICEV owner, 419,200 baht to drive 20k kms over 8 years, plus 15 oil changes, and a few full tune-up.

 

And NO ... batteries don't need to be replaced after 8 yrs, and will last 500k-1M kms, at least.

 

A new EV troll, lovely .... Thanks for the chuckle.

Have a nice day.

It cost you 2.62 baht/km to drive your MG?

Are you dragging an elephant 🐘 behind your car?

 

419,200 / (20,000 × 8) = 2.62 baht/km

Edited August 24 by ExpatOilWorker

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

It cost you 2.62 baht/km to drive your MG?

Are you dragging an elephant 🐘 behind your car?

 

419,200 / (20,000 × 😎 = 2.62 baht/km

reading comprehension ... read that again, as it's savings, not expenses 

 

"that saves us 419,200 baht over the 8 yr warranty period"

[JBChiangRai]

31 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

reading comprehension ... read that again, as it's savings, not expenses 

 

"that saves us 419,200 baht over the 8 yr warranty period"

 

He has a problem with numbers.

[motdaeng]

6 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

He has a problem with numbers.

 

i do not think that is his only problem ... 

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

reading comprehension ... read that again, as it's savings, not expenses 

 

"that saves us 419,200 baht over the 8 yr warranty period"

Got it. I did misunderstanding your convoluted arithmetic, mainly because as I see it the ICE owner would have contributed 419,200 baht toward the amazing and all inspiring petrol ⛽️ industry. 

What you see as a saving I see as a loss 📉 😏. 

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Got it. I did misunderstanding your convoluted arithmetic, mainly because as I see it the ICE owner would have contributed 419,200 baht toward the amazing and all inspiring petrol ⛽️ industry. 

What you see as a saving I see as a loss 📉 😏. 

Ah ... profiteering as your product degrades the parts of the vehicle it powers, while harming the environment in the production & transport of.  Not to mention the fumes when actually used in vehicles.

 

Urban cancer rates with direct links to diesel fuel, but hey, as long as it puts food on your table.

 

And here I thought I was a me me me me selfish bastard.  Sometimes I just can't compete with you.

 

You win again ... 😎

[ExpatOilWorker]

27 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Ah ... profiteering as your product degrades the parts of the vehicle it powers, while harming the environment in the production & transport of.  Not to mention the fumes when actually used in vehicles.

 

Urban cancer rates with direct links to diesel fuel, but hey, as long as it puts food on your table.

 

And here I thought I was a me me me me selfish bastard.  Sometimes I just can't compete with you.

 

You win again ... 😎

The EV industry is also all about profits 📈,  except while the oil industry pay trillion $ in taxes and public royalties,  the EV industry wake ⏰️ up every morning thinking how they can get access to public funding and subsidies.

To help them, they deploy an army of leming propagandists around the world.

[KhunLA]

55 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

The EV industry is also all about profits 📈,  except while the oil industry pay trillion $ in taxes and public royalties,  the EV industry wake ⏰️ up every morning thinking how they can get access to public funding and subsidies.

To help them, they deploy an army of leming propagandists around the world.

To ridiculous to even comment on.   As if oil industry doesn't get subsidies, or drill on public land almost, if not, lease free.   

 

Give it a rest ... 😎  Trillion $$$ windfall profits, price gouging while people suffer.   Nice 👍

Edited August 24 by KhunLA

[ExpatOilWorker]

21 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

To ridiculous to even comment on.   As if oil industry doesn't get subsidies, or drill on public land almost, if not, lease free.   

 

Give it a rest ... 😎  Trillion $$$ windfall profits, price gouging while people suffer.   Nice 👍

OECD countries milk their citizens for $2 trillion annually in oil related taxed.

On top of that most of oil global is produced by national oil companies, paying royalties direct to their state sponsor.

Your old mother ship, The Land of The Free, is admittedly a bit of a special case with lots of public listed operators. Still, they do pay taxed, unlike the US pharmaceutical industry. 

 

Now, let's get back to some more fake EV propaganda, shall we. We are less than a week away from an important announcement 🥳 🎉. 

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

OECD countries milk their citizens for $2 trillion annually in oil related taxed.

On top of that most of oil global is produced by national oil companies, paying royalties direct to their state sponsor.

Your old mother ship, The Land of The Free, is admittedly a bit of a special case with lots of public listed operators. Still, they do pay taxed, unlike the US pharmaceutical industry. 

 

Now, let's get back to some more fake EV propaganda, shall we. We are less than a week away from an important announcement 🥳 🎉. 

  🥱 🥱 🥱

[ExpatOilWorker]

13 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

  🥱 🥱 🥱

Have a good nap 😴 💤 

 

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Have a good nap 😴 💤 

 

 

You are turning into Transman again