connda Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 #1 reason to own a Benz Being a status conscious prig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro01 Posted January 15, 2022 Author Share Posted January 15, 2022 5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said: ... oh no you didn’t just do that.... ... ‘if you don’t like it go home’ ??? ... You’ve surely been on this forum long enough to know thats a silly cop-out !!! & the discussion about ‘benz’... is just pathetic (not aiming this comment at you at all BTW).... Benz, Merc etc.... who cares, we all know whats being discussed !!!.... Hope the car gets fixed.... its a shame when something so nice ends up in the shop.... lol - yeah, I did - but only in response to another tired old cliche - can I get a pass? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 1 minute ago, pedro01 said: lol - yeah, I did - but only in response to another tired old cliche - can I get a pass? haha.... in fairness... they probably should be going home !!! ???? ... its a cop out... however, the comment is sometimes not far off the necessary response.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 On 1/14/2022 at 3:46 AM, jimmybcool said: With regards to Mercedes one advantage you are paying for versus the similar sized Honda is safety. The attached picture was a car the wife unit was driving. She was at a complete stop and a full size Chevrolet Silverado pickup truck rear ended her that police estimate was moving at 65 MPH (104 KPH) and never touched the brakes. Yes, the whiplash caused some injury. But no part of the passenger compartment was violated and no one would have been cut on anything. I think in a Honda she might have died. That has some added value. And none of these cars ever left me on the side of the highway. Ever. A shocking accident.... glad your wife was ok. But... Quote I think in a Honda she might have died. What makes you think that ?.... All vehicles have to pass safety tests and have NCAP ratings, the closest Honda (perhaps an Accord) would have very likely performed as well. I’m not so sure the reputations of 30 years ago are as valid now as they once were. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klonko Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 Better reliability of Mercedes was > 20 years ago. Japanese cars are more reliable. Globally. But a Mercedes may be more likely to pass police checkpoints unstopped. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmybcool Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said: A shocking accident.... glad your wife was ok. But... What makes you think that ?.... All vehicles have to pass safety tests and have NCAP ratings, the closest Honda (perhaps an Accord) would have very likely performed as well. I’m not so sure the reputations of 30 years ago are as valid now as they once were. You could be right. I just don't think the less expensive lighter cars have as much impact protection. I have nothing against Honda except their modern selection of cars and sales teams at dealerships SUCKS. Was looking at cars for wife unit this year and thought a CR-V would fit the bill. They had NONE in inventory (major city in the USA) with higher end appointments. And their sales team instead of doing anything to see if it would be possible to get one tried to explain why it wasn't important. They did not seem to notice my wife was trying to get away from them as if they were <deleted> stuck on the bottom of her shoe. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 Firstly... apologies for going ’nerdy’ on you... This stuff and type of discussion interests me... 50 minutes ago, jimmybcool said: You could be right. I just don't think the less expensive lighter cars have as much impact protection. That depends what you are hitting or whats hitting you - there are always heavier cars. While weight / mass and momentum play an important roll, the greater roll is played by engineering, crumple zones, ride height etc... When comparing like for like... The Curb weight of an Merc E350 is approx 1800 kgs The Curb weight of an Honda Accord is approx 1500 kgs The Curb weight of an Toyota Camry is approx 1600 kgs The Curb weight of an Merc C Class is approx 1600 kgs I think the E350 is a ’step up’ from the accord... The Accord, Camry and C-Class may be in the same bracket - weights are similar. I’d expect their ‘impact' performance to be similar. I also note from the photographs of the impact your wife suffered... that the impact was deflected ‘up and above’ the longitudinal member also known as the ‘rear floor side member' (main structure of the chassis) - the car which hit your E350 had a higher ride height and the bumper was higher than your car, hence the upward deflection. It's incredible that the passenger compartment remained intact and is a testament to modern impact engineering. 50 minutes ago, jimmybcool said: I have nothing against Honda except their modern selection of cars and sales teams at dealerships SUCKS. Was looking at cars for wife unit this year and thought a CR-V would fit the bill. They had NONE in inventory (major city in the USA) with higher end appointments. And their sales team instead of doing anything to see if it would be possible to get one tried to explain why it wasn't important. They did not seem to notice my wife was trying to get away from them as if they were <deleted> stuck on the bottom of her shoe. ???? I had a very similar experience in Thailand with Honda... the sales lady wouldn’t even power up the car so I could adjust the electric seats so I could sit in a see if I fit... Wife and I just walked out (she went back to candy crush !) To be fair to Honda, car sales for all of the brands in Thailand is incredibly poor and that includes Merc, BMW, Lexus, Mazda, Toyota....... Ford takes it to another low !!! my expectations are already exceptionally low ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerno Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 Too prove you are hi-so and somehow better than 60 million others in Thailand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat Pie 47 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 To show off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Meat Pie 47 said: To show off Thats what people who can’t afford them say... ???? Edited January 15, 2022 by richard_smith237 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Jerno said: Too prove you are hi-so and somehow better than 60 million others in Thailand? Thats what people who think they would be considered hi-so only by their car would say !!! ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat Pie 47 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said: Thats what people who can’t afford them say... ???? Well all taxi drivers in Germany can ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Cow Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) BMWs Reliability is poor for the price of the car. Likewise Benz which have a poorer reliability rating than even BMW and neither are up to the reliability of Japanese or even Korean cars. A good friend who worked for a car transport company in Melbourne said BMWs were the most break down pick ups of late model cars that they transported compared to other brands. In fact they were called BM trouble you. Their motorbikes are no better in reliabilty and are far behind Japanese brands. IMO they are bought mostly for their perceived prestige value. Whilst BMW may be a drivers car. Most who drive them are not capable of driving them to their limits anyway and if driving around Bangkok there is little value in its high speed driveability. Certainly Lexus is a far more reliable brand than either. Although the ugly front grill is something I can't get past and why I dont own one. The German cars may be well engineered but to me as an Engineer, a supposedly well engineered car that has limited reliabilty is counter intuitive. My son as a car mechanic works on many brands and does not like working on either. He rates Toyota and Mazda far above the German brands in the reliability stakes. Range Rover is another seen mainly at private school pick ups and around town that is another favourite of the "well heeled". While designed for off road use, not many would be silly enough to take one deep into the Australian bush far from a major town with its many reliability issues. There, the Toyota and nissan FWDs reign supreme. In engineering their is the KISS principle. IMO over thinking or over engineering causes unreliability and I believe BMW and Benz both suffer from the latter. Sometimes, more is less. Edited January 15, 2022 by Hugh Cow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 Quote #1 reason to own a Benz To impress your friends. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In Full Agreement Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 18 hours ago, jimmybcool said: I would but I have a bad back and I think the ride is a bit rough. ???? Just change the suspension, Mate. You're good to go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In Full Agreement Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 On 1/13/2022 at 10:38 PM, JAS21 said: Yes… definitely cheaper and more reliable… but there it ends… Really...? We all have individual tastes, wants and opinions. Yours may certainly differ from mine. To each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedy Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmybcool Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 I would like to expand on why I've owned these cars and would I in thailand. I've owned them because I like the way they drive compared to say a Toyota or Honda. There is a difference and day in day out they are better. In the USA we have some very nice highways and can drive at higher speeds for longer times than in Thailand and they really earn their keep then. Also, getting service for these vehicles in the USA is easier and probably better. If I ever actually keep them past warranty I do not use the dealership for service. There are qualified service centers that charge a lot less. If I ever move to Thailand I most likely will not buy a Mercedes or BMW. First off I don't like the massive price increase. The gap between Honda and Mercedes in the USA is smaller than in Thailand as we don't charge a fortune for importing cars. I don't think I would like paying that delta there. Plus - well I've had nice cars here for years and rarely if ever get a scratch on it or hit a pothole deep enough to need repair. In Pattaya it is inevitable some motocy is going to run into you. lastly I would prefer keeping a lower profile regarding my financial situation in Thailand. The probable vehicle I would buy is a Honda CR-V or maybe a Toyota Fortuner. Something made there and serviced everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro01 Posted January 17, 2022 Author Share Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) On 1/16/2022 at 5:13 AM, Hugh Cow said: BMWs Reliability is poor for the price of the car. Likewise Benz which have a poorer reliability rating than even BMW and neither are up to the reliability of Japanese or even Korean cars. A good friend who worked for a car transport company in Melbourne said BMWs were the most break down pick ups of late model cars that they transported compared to other brands. In fact they were called BM trouble you. Their motorbikes are no better in reliabilty and are far behind Japanese brands. IMO they are bought mostly for their perceived prestige value. Whilst BMW may be a drivers car. Most who drive them are not capable of driving them to their limits anyway and if driving around Bangkok there is little value in its high speed driveability. Certainly Lexus is a far more reliable brand than either. Although the ugly front grill is something I can't get past and why I dont own one. The German cars may be well engineered but to me as an Engineer, a supposedly well engineered car that has limited reliabilty is counter intuitive. My son as a car mechanic works on many brands and does not like working on either. He rates Toyota and Mazda far above the German brands in the reliability stakes. Range Rover is another seen mainly at private school pick ups and around town that is another favourite of the "well heeled". While designed for off road use, not many would be silly enough to take one deep into the Australian bush far from a major town with its many reliability issues. There, the Toyota and nissan FWDs reign supreme. In engineering their is the KISS principle. IMO over thinking or over engineering causes unreliability and I believe BMW and Benz both suffer from the latter. Sometimes, more is less. My experince is Benz are more reliable. But i agree with your last point. The bleeding edge! Edited January 17, 2022 by pedro01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmybcool Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 5 hours ago, pedro01 said: My experince is Benz are more reliable. But i agree with your last point. The bleeding edge! I have had great luck with the luxury brands. But if you note my list above I don't keep any of them more than about 3-4 years so possible that the over-engineering is a problem more after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alextrat1966 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 On 1/15/2022 at 9:23 PM, richard_smith237 said: What makes you think that ?.... All vehicles have to pass safety tests and have NCAP ratings, the closest Honda (perhaps an Accord) would have very likely performed as well. I’m not so sure the reputations of 30 years ago are as valid now as they once were. I am afraid NCAP is just a powerful marketing tool used by manufacturers, but nothing more than that. They test at speeds of 60km/h. Your chances of surviving a crash at 60km/h stand pretty high even with an old and insecure (compared to today's standards) vehicle. What we are really interested in is crashes at expressways speeds (>90km/h)... And here is where you will find Mercedes are far safer than many Japanese cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 8 minutes ago, alextrat1966 said: I am afraid NCAP is just a powerful marketing tool used by manufacturers, but nothing more than that. They test at speeds of 60km/h. Your chances of surviving a crash at 60km/h stand pretty high even with an old and insecure (compared to today's standards) vehicle. What we are really interested in is crashes at expressways speeds (>90km/h)... And here is where you will find Mercedes are far safer than many Japanese cars. World wide governing bodies and governments themselves do not agree with your opinion on this. Here’s why: The majority of accidents occur at relatively low speed, protecting people at a relatively low speed is still possible whereas protecting people at a 90 kmh impact (to zero) is extremely difficult - cars would’ve to be a lot longer than they are now. Frontal collisions at 90kmh - 120kmh motorway speeds are extremely rare - roads on which we travel at these speeds are divided. ‘Pile up’s (rear-ending a stationary vehicle at 120 kmh has roughy the the energy as a frontal collision of two cars travelling at 60 kmh. NCAP tests replicate this. There is also a human factor: Humans can tolerate a limited degree of G regardless of air-bags. Crumple zones in cars would have to be huge to limit this G at higher speeds - the cars would have to me much much longe to contain these crumple zones to below a humanly tolerable G at higher speeds. If a car is travelling at 120 kmh, thats 4x the energy the car would need to be significantly long enough to dissipate the energy to less than 50-60 g tolerable by the human body - i.e. 4x longer ! A a car as long as a buss with the same ‘passenger compartment inside’ would be impractical. In any car - hitting something stationary at 120kmh - you are dead, even if the passenger compartment survives - the G is just too much. At 90 kmh, hitting a stationary vehicle or object in any car the passenger compartment may remain intact, but you won’t whether its a German car or a Japanese car. Thus: NCAP crash tests are carried out at 64 kmh... it's not fashion, it's not marketing, its science. Personally, from a safety perspective - I’d chose a Volvo XC-90 over any car... but my logic would be flawed, the car with the best grip which can brake the fastest is the safest as that has the best possibility of minimising G in a frontal indecent (most accidents involve a significant amount of braking before impact). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alextrat1966 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) 32 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said: World wide governing bodies and governments themselves do not agree with your opinion on this. Here’s why: The majority of accidents occur at relatively low speed, protecting people at a relatively low speed is still possible whereas protecting people at a 90 kmh impact (to zero) is extremely difficult - cars would’ve to be a lot longer than they are now. Frontal collisions at 90kmh - 120kmh motorway speeds are extremely rare - roads on which we travel at these speeds are divided. ‘Pile up’s (rear-ending a stationary vehicle at 120 kmh has roughy the the energy as a frontal collision of two cars travelling at 60 kmh. NCAP tests replicate this. There is also a human factor: Humans can tolerate a limited degree of G regardless of air-bags. Crumple zones in cars would have to be huge to limit this G at higher speeds - the cars would have to me much much longe to contain these crumple zones to below a humanly tolerable G at higher speeds. If a car is travelling at 120 kmh, thats 4x the energy the car would need to be significantly long enough to dissipate the energy to less than 50-60 g tolerable by the human body - i.e. 4x longer ! A a car as long as a buss with the same ‘passenger compartment inside’ would be impractical. In any car - hitting something stationary at 120kmh - you are dead, even if the passenger compartment survives - the G is just too much. At 90 kmh, hitting a stationary vehicle or object in any car the passenger compartment may remain intact, but you won’t whether its a German car or a Japanese car. Thus: NCAP crash tests are carried out at 64 kmh... it's not fashion, it's not marketing, its science. Personally, from a safety perspective - I’d chose a Volvo XC-90 over any car... but my logic would be flawed, the car with the best grip which can brake the fastest is the safest as that has the best possibility of minimising G in a frontal indecent (most accidents involve a significant amount of braking before impact). Your theory doesn't meet reality. Quite a lot of people have survived frontal impacts at expressway speeds. A friend of mine while drunk driving crashed heads on at 152km/h with his Mercedes R320 against a Seat Ibiza which was traveling at 117km/h. Survived after 3 months in the ICU. (The guy in the Ibiza died on the spot). The amount of G forces the human body can take for fractions of a second is extraordinary, sometimes as high as 200G without major injuries! And so protecting the passenger compartment is critical! Any EMT would tell you cutting someone off a Mercedes/BMW takes three times more than if it were a Japanese car, this means the firewall in German cars is stronger than Japanese; which also matches the fact that Japanese cars are more light weight. Edited January 19, 2022 by alextrat1966 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenslegs Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 If I had the means to buy a Mercedes, BMW, or Lexus (which I don't) I'd buy a Volvo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavisH Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 34 minutes ago, alextrat1966 said: Your theory doesn't meet reality. Quite a lot of people have survived frontal impacts at expressway speeds. A friend of mine while drunk driving crashed heads on at 152km/h with his Mercedes R320 against a Seat Ibiza which was traveling at 117km/h. Survived after 3 months in the ICU. (The guy in the Ibiza died on the spot). The amount of G forces the human body can take for fractions of a second is extraordinary, sometimes as high as 200G without major injuries! And so protecting the passenger compartment is critical! Any EMT would tell you cutting someone off a Mercedes/BMW takes three times more than if it were a Japanese car, this means the firewall in German cars is stronger than Japanese; which also matches the fact that Japanese cars are more light weight. A seat ibiza is about 1000kg. How heavy was the benz? It's better to compare like for like in terms of mass when you compare the severity of the impact. Physics is on the side of the (much) heavier vehicle. But not all heavy vehicles are necessarily more safe (e.g. pickup trucks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alextrat1966 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 1 minute ago, DavisH said: A seat ibiza is about 1000kg. How heavy was the benz? It's better to compare like for like in terms of mass when you compare the severity of the impact. Physics is on the side of the (much) heavier vehicle. But not all heavy vehicles are necessarily more safe (e.g. pickup trucks). Yes sure, hence why the driver of the Ibiza died. But that still doesn't mean it's nothing for the Benz. The fact that after such an impact at those speeds there was just about enough space in the passenger compartment tells a lot. Don't know, but I've heard from EMTs that European cars do much better than Japanese and specially that Americans. I am a Mercedes fanboy so to speak, but even if I didn't buy Mercedes, I'd buy Volvo or something European. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, alextrat1966 said: Your theory doesn't meet reality. It's not theory - its why NCAP tests the way it does - perhaps that plays into your theory that it’s a marketing tool, well it is... who wouldn’t use safety as a marketing tool in todays world - but that does not mean that NCAP is ‘just a marketing tool’ - its still science. 1 hour ago, alextrat1966 said: Quite a lot of people have survived frontal impacts at expressway speeds. A friend of mine while drunk driving crashed heads on at 152km/h with his Mercedes R320 against a Seat Ibiza which was traveling at 117km/h. Survived after 3 months in the ICU. (The guy in the Ibiza died on the spot). The amount of G forces the human body can take for fractions of a second is extraordinary, sometimes as high as 200G without major injuries! And so protecting the passenger compartment is critical! A 2 tonne car vs a 1 tonne.... the larger car would have decelerated at a far lesser rate than the smaller car - energy would have transferred and sent the smaller car backwards = higher G experienced by the occupants of the smaller car. Yes, people have survived falling out of a plane without a parachute..... there is an exception to everything. Call it a miracle, a freak of nature, extreme luck... some times the perfect angle of impact etc - the same happens in reverse, while we read of people miraculously escaping death, we also read of the slightest bump causing tragic consequences.... Issues such as vehicular impact safety cannot be measured by anecdote. Facts have to be relied upon and those facts are established in crash testing - If you don’t agree with NCAP, then there has to be another universally accepted form of testing and comparison. Regarding the human body: Beyond 50 G’s the stresses on the human body is significant - the risk of serious injury and death is significant - that is a fact. In 1997 Princess Diana died in a Mercedes S class travelling at 65 mph, the G exposure was suspected to be as high as 70 G. 1 hour ago, alextrat1966 said: Any EMT would tell you cutting someone off a Mercedes/BMW takes three times more than if it were a Japanese car, this means the firewall in German cars is stronger than Japanese; which also matches the fact that Japanese cars are more light weight. Will they ???... Any ‘modern’ EMT’s wish to ‘chip in’ ???? - It would make for a very interesting test to see the Jaws of Life in operation on 2022 Mercedes vs Audi, Volvo and then vs a similar sized Honda, Toyota and Mazda... i.e. C Class, Vs A4, Vs S60, vs Accord, Vs Camry, Vs Mazda 6 etc..... (for a fair test). It used to be reported that the ‘Jaws of Life ‘ can remove the roof of a car within 2 minutes... that is perhaps old information, 30 years old or more... These days, car manufactures are using high strength steels - the emergency services are having to find better and stronger tools to keep up. The success of whether or not an EMT team can extract a stuck passenger relies primarily on the quality of the equipment they have at hand. - The Jaws of Life from 20 years ago would likely fail to cut the A, B and C Pillars of a new vehicle today (Merc or Honda). Edited January 19, 2022 by richard_smith237 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) 42 minutes ago, alextrat1966 said: I am a Mercedes fanboy so to speak, but even if I didn't buy Mercedes, I'd buy Volvo or something European. I used to be the same, I also didn’t want to go anywhere near small cars and preferred the European marks... But now I realise from a strength and safety aspect within the same class they are all extremely similar... That said, my next car might be a Volvo - primarily because I really like the XC-60... but also the safety rep is still a factor, reputation hangs around, and choice is very emotional.... Is and XC-60 safer than a Mazda CX-5 or Honda Accord ?? of course, because its bigger.... Is the XC-40 ??.. I’m not so sure... this we need a similar class comparison. i.e. Comparing a Volvo XC-90 to a Toyota Land Cruiser.... or a GLA, BMW X1 or X3 to a Mazda CX-5, or a Merc C-Class to a Accord or Camry. Some of the larger EU cars don’t really have a Japanese competitor... i.e. S Class, A8, A6, 5 Series, E Class... thus comparing those with a Japanese mark is not a fair fight. Edited January 19, 2022 by richard_smith237 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwasaki Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 10 hours ago, chickenslegs said: If I had the means to buy a Mercedes, BMW, or Lexus (which I don't) I'd buy a Volvo. You can always buy a secondhand Volvo. ???? Don't worry this thread is just another peeing contest of no importance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman30 Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 All i know is in Thailand i have never seen a Benz with working indicators.???? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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