Understanding Isaan

[puchooay]

3 hours ago, Isaanlife said:

 

In that sentence Lao can mean Laos or Isaan.

 

In my area people ask that meaning can you speak Isaan because that is where they are and I am.

 

No definitive meaning.

This post totally nullifies what you were attempting to say in your first post. You have totally contradicted yourself.

Try to brush up on the history of Isaan and the many different cultures. You will learn that there certainly are definitive meanings to the language names.

[puchooay]

4 hours ago, Denim said:

Talking of Isaan , whenever someone asks about your linguistic abilities it is always 

' wow lao pen bo ' ....no mention by them of Isaan.

What you mean to say is "in a Laos speaking area of Isaan". Where I live they ask " yai Khmer rur oi?".

[Denim]

2 minutes ago, puchooay said:

What you mean to say is "in a Laos speaking area of Isaan". Where I live they ask " yai Khmer rur oi?".

 

The oracle will soon be along to pick the bones out of your posts.

[puchooay]

5 hours ago, JayClay said:

I wonder how many speakers of these languages actually know the nuances of which you speak. 

 

My experience is limited to meeting Issan girls in bars who, upon realising that I can speak Thai reasonably well always then go on to ask me "Can you speak Issan?"[I can't]

 

I'm never asked if I can speak Khmer, Laos or any other of the dialects that you mention. Are the girls just simplifying it for me? Or do they not even know what language they speak? Or are these dialects in reality so close together that it's easier to lump them together as "Issan"?

 

I, for example would rarely say that somebody speaks scouse or mancunian... I'd just normally say that they speak "Nothern English". Or probably just that they have a northern accent.

 

 

In a similar way to some posters here, it is generally a misconception or lack of understanding. Often because of lack of education of or travel within the region.

 

Laos is the dominant dialect of Isaan, of that there is no doubt. This foes not mean it is the only dialect, as some would think, and therefore should not be confused with the name of the region.

 

The North East of Thailand is known as Issan and the people should referred to as Isaan folk. None of the dialects are named Isaan and should not be.

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, puchooay said:

In a similar way to some posters here, it is generally a misconception or lack of understanding. Often because of lack of education of or travel within the region.

 

Laos is the dom

inant dialect of Isaan, of that there is no doubt. This foes not mean it is the only dialect, as some would think, and therefore should not be confused with the name of the region.

 

The North East of Thailand is known as Issan and the people should referred to as Isaan folk. None of the dialects are named Isaan and should not be.

My gf says "we speak Isan, but have many dialects! 

[bbko]

Calling the language wow lao or Issan, does it really matter?

 

 

[KhunLA]

Nobody I know, knew, stated they speak Lao.  Just Isan, their Isan.  An obvious 'broken' Lao dialect.  As most of Udon Thani-ites were from the border area of now Laos, or abouts, in the N of the NE.

 

Actually Udon Thani was mapped and settled originally by Prince PraJack & company, probably in the Nong Khai area, along the river, but because of the treaty with the French, had to move 50 kms away, to now where Udon Thani sits.

 

Map showing linguistic family tree overlaid on a geographic distribution map of Tai-Kadai family. This map only shows general pattern of the migration of Tai-speaking tribes, not specific routes, which would have snaked along the rivers and over the lower passes.

[JayClay]

3 hours ago, puchooay said:

similar way to some posters here, it is generally a misconception or lack of understanding. Often because of lack of education of or travel within the region

Right.... So I don't think you can really expect the casual expat observer to know, or particularly care about, the differences of those that speak the dialects themselves don't even know!

[transam]

17 hours ago, stigar said:

Hmmm...how many of bargirls from Isaan..mostly!!!How many foreigners been cheated by Isaangirls..alot!!!What is the place in thailand with most foreigners married to much younger thaigirls compared to number of citicens..UDON THANI!!!etc etc

I see the topic about why Isaangirls is so good wifes.Dont rosepaint Isaan..their not better then any other.Its an old saying in thailand..MAMA ISAAN HAVE BIG GREEDY HANDS!!!!

Did you write that in a bar in Pattaya......????

[transam]

8 hours ago, Isaanlife said:

 

In that sentence Lao can mean Laos or Isaan.

 

In my area people ask that meaning can you speak Isaan because that is where they are and I am.

 

No definitive meaning.

I live in Isaan, my Thai friends speak Lao...

[transam]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Nobody I know, knew, stated they speak Lao.  Just Isan, their Isan.  An obvious 'broken' Lao dialect.  As most of Udon Thani-ites were from the border area of now Laos, or abouts, in the N of the NE.

 

Actually Udon Thani was mapped and settled originally by Prince PraJack & company, probably in the Nong Khai area, along the river, but because of the treaty with the French, had to move 50 kms away, to now where Udon Thani sits.

 

Map showing linguistic family tree overlaid on a geographic distribution map of Tai-Kadai family. This map only shows general pattern of the migration of Tai-speaking tribes, not specific routes, which would have snaked along the rivers and over the lower passes.

Mrs.T definitely speaks Lao, she told me so........????

[kimamey]

17 hours ago, puchooay said:

Lack of understanding is particularly evidenced in comments like " I the village where I live they speak Isaan" or " my wife and her family speak Isaan". 

 

Isaan is a region, not a language or dialect. There are many dialects in Isaan, all with their own names. Such as Laos ( Often incorrectly referred to as "Isaan"), Khmer, Gui, Thai Korat.........

That's something I didn't know so thanks for that.  My wife refers to Isaan language so presumably she doesn't know either or she's making it simple for me. Having said that I've heard other Thais say that as well. 

It's a bit complicated though. I'm from Southampton in the south of England but there are occasional differences if you go to Portsmouth which is about 20 miles / 30 km away but I wouldn't necessarily call it a different dialect. If you go to the Isle of Wight then it's very close but because it's separated by water there are other differences.

[stigar]

11 minutes ago, transam said:

Did you write that in a bar in Pattaya......????

No..i dont like pattaya.11 years since last time there.I prefer BKK and Korat where my gf live.

[kimamey]

17 hours ago, bbko said:

Different strokes for different folks.  If I'm ever found to be in Issan for 5 days, it means I've been dead for 2 ????, 3 is all I can take, and I've been to several areas many times visiting the wife's family, Phetabun, Sakon Nakon, Buang Khan.

So you're more of a Thailand Lite sort of guy then. ????

[transam]

The area of Isaan that I live in, Ubon, has changed immensely since I have been here.

I am lucky really, the airport is 10 mins drive, Tesco, Makro, Central Plaza etc,etc are all less than 30 mins away.

Motor dealers/sales for virtually any ride are here too, yet the open countryside is just minutes away. I am also lucky enough to live on the banks of the towns reservoir/lake, so all in all, a nice Isaan spot...????   

[The Hammer2021]

Although based in Pattaya I have spent some time in Issan especially for the music, dance and rocket festivals and always have a fantastic  time.

[kimamey]

12 hours ago, Isaanlife said:

You must be a ball of fun at a party?

Not!

I will call it exactly what I want to, I am not in language school!

Always those thinking they are holier than though.

Running through life as the grammar police, acting all knowing, thinking their doo-doo doesn't stink.

Please, please, please don't ever spawn and move your klan to rural Isaan; where we speak Isaan! 

I think  puchooay may have come across as a little aggressive. I don't know if that was intended or not. 

The points mentioned are something I didn't really know so it's interesting to hear. There's no need for such a hectoring tone if that was the intention. If that wasn't the tone they were trying to convey then he or she might benefit from a greater understanding of how to use English  to avoid that. It can be difficult particularly if sarcasm is used. I guess that's why we need emoticons.

 

For myself I'm always happy to hear things I may have not understood. In particular if anyone wants to point out an incorrect spelling or use of grammar then that's how I can improve.

 

'You must be a ball of fun at a party?' 

 

Surely that's a statement not a question isn't it? As for the use of explanation marks I'll have to leave that to someone else as I'm not sure of the rules around that.  ????

[kimamey]

6 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Lived in Isan (Udon ThanI) for 16 yrs, mostly 'in the sticks' although with most of Thailand, that only takes about 5 minutes of driving from the Amphur Muang town center.  Maybe 10 province it will take 15+ mins ????  Unless living in Krung Thep.

 

For language, it's a 'broken' dialect now, as separated by borders.  UT for example, they speak Isan or 'broken' Lao dialect from days past.   When I use to do border runs, pop over to Vientiane, and we'd be in a tuk tuk around town, I'd ask the wife what are they saying, and she could only piece it together, barely.   Their Thai was better than her 'Lao'  and why I say it's a 'broken' dialect of days past.

 

It can be boring as all hell, even the landscape, unless living on the edge of the plateau, then quite nice, as you'll get rolling hills, cliffs, or the river.  Once on the plateau, and away from that, well, 'shoot me now'.

 

OK, wet season is lovely, rice fields or whatever else, but after harvest, it's dry, hard, dusty, and air polluted with the burning.

 

I'm really good at self entertaining, but Udon Thani, living less than 30 minutes away from downtown, it was challenge, and considering that's one of the largest towns in Thailand, boring as all hell after couple years, unless you're a alky or need the companionship of other farangs.  And personally couldn't wait to leave.  Although looking at my 'living location' history, I tend to get bored of, everywhere after 5 yrs, and move on.  Not much keeps my interest after I've explored everything within 100 kms radius of the house.

 

Probably why we're out & about so much, unless something going on locally.

 

Where ever you are ... ENJOY.

I would imagine with the ease of travel meaning people move around  language, dialects and even accents get intermingled. 

 

In 1971 I went to Spain for the first time and at our hotel there were 2 couples from the West Bromwich area. One lived in the town and the other a little way outside. I had little trouble understanding the couple from the city but the other ones were very difficult and they often had to say things two or three times so I could hear enough words to piece together what they were saying. The Spanish were much easier to understand.

 

You're right the flat areas of Isaan can be a bit boring so we travel around a lot if we can. It can be a long drive sometimes so we may do more when my wife retires and she has more free days.

 

Please don't expand on why you're very good at entertaining yourself. We are often in different time zones so some of us may be eating.

[kimamey]

6 hours ago, Hummin said:

That what we all think we are, and I hope it is true ????????????

 

I have to admit, I have stepped on some toes, and not choosed the popular route always, and sometimes the middle road is better, and occasionally just sit still and hope it will pass. 

 

Now, I cant botter anymore, it is what it is, and I moved away from the village and closer to the jungle. But, when one go, other see, and do as well. Still 300m to closest neighbour

'Still 300m to closest neighbour'

 

That's good. At least you're still close enough to join in the karaoke then, 

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

Esan HD on YouTube. Happy, fun music. Cute chicks.

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMqokHuYJR_Sze2lLxjgYbw

[GarryP]

My wife and her family all refer to the language as Lao or Isan (even though some members of her family speak Phu Thai). Just about every Thai person I have ever met who mentioned languages of the North East refer to it in the same way, except some from the provinces of Buriram, Sisaket and Surin. Yes, of course there are multiple dialects, including those derived from the Khmer language, but the vast majority speak dialects derived from Lao (aka passa Isan or Lao). As a result the most common reference to languages of the region is Isan or Lao. 

 

When Thais learn that I will be retiring to Kalasin, most ask whether I can speak passa Isan. They never ever refer to any particular Northeastern dialect which may be specific to the area to which I'll be moving, and that is because they don't even know that there is one. Are they wrong to do that? Of course not.  I know this may be upsetting to some.  

[bbko]

1 hour ago, transam said:

The area of Isaan that I live in, Ubon, has changed immensely since I have been here.

I am lucky really, the airport is 10 mins drive, Tesco, Makro, Central Plaza etc,etc are all less than 30 mins away.

Motor dealers/sales for virtually any ride are here too, yet the open countryside is just minutes away. I am also lucky enough to live on the banks of the towns reservoir/lake, so all in all, a nice Isaan spot...????   

I've traveled enough around Issan to know if I ever want to move from Pattaya to Issan, the Ubon Thani area is where I'd like to be.

[LoeiI]

1 hour ago, kimamey said:

In 1971 I went to Spain for the first time and at our hotel there were 2 couples from the West Bromwich area. One lived in the town and the other a little way outside. I had little trouble understanding the couple from the city but the other ones were very difficult and they often had to say things two or three times so I could hear enough words to piece together what they were saying. The Spanish were much easier to understand

Not sure how much the dialects differ here but when i lived in the UK i was only 20 odd miles from Barnsley and they could have been speaking Klingon for all i knew ????

[puchooay]

5 hours ago, kimamey said:

I think  puchooay may have come across as a little aggressive. I don't know if that was intended or not. 

The points mentioned are something I didn't really know so it's interesting to hear. There's no need for such a hectoring tone if that was the intention. If that wasn't the tone they were trying to convey then he or she might benefit from a greater understanding of how to use English  to avoid that. It can be difficult particularly if sarcasm is used. I guess that's why we need emoticons.

 

For myself I'm always happy to hear things I may have not understood. In particular if anyone wants to point out an incorrect spelling or use of grammar then that's how I can improve.

 

'You must be a ball of fun at a party?' 

 

Surely that's a statement not a question isn't it? As for the use of explanation marks I'll have to leave that to someone else as I'm not sure of the rules around that.  ????

It was not my intention to appear aggressive and I apologize if that is how it seemed.

 

I was just pointing out a mistake that is made often. Not just by expats but by Thais too. Generally it is lack of understanding about history of the area and the cultures. 

 

One of the least spoken dialects in Isaan is actually the oldest and pre dates Laos and Khmer by many years. That is Gui. The language of the elephant herders. Spoken in pockets of Buriram, Surin and Sissakhet.

[kimamey]

6 hours ago, bbko said:

I've traveled enough around Issan to know if I ever want to move from Pattaya to Issan, the Ubon Thani area is where I'd like to be.

Do yo mean Udon Thani or Ubon Ratchathani ?

[transam]

15 hours ago, bbko said:

I've traveled enough around Issan to know if I ever want to move from Pattaya to Issan, the Ubon Thani area is where I'd like to be.

I am in Ubon Ratchathani, do yoan Udon Thani...?

[1FinickyOne]

On 1/15/2022 at 11:00 PM, puchooay said:

Isaan is a region, not a language or dialect

Yes, it is a region but it is also used to denote a language... or group of languages you might say, of that region.. just as people might ask if you speak Northern Thai though there can be some regional distinctions... 

 

 

[transam]

43 minutes ago, transam said:

I am in Ubon Ratchathani, do yoan Udon Thani...?

That should say...'Do you mean Udon Thani'....????

[KhunLA]

16 hours ago, bbko said:

I've traveled enough around Issan to know if I ever want to move from Pattaya to Issan, the Ubon Thani area is where I'd like to be.

As much as I don't care for Patts, Isan would be the last place I'd move to.

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

As much as I don't care for Patts, Isan would be the last place I'd move to.

Exactly how I thought to once! 

However new experiences and a new life might change that for some. It did for me. Never say never

Good luck